Search the Community

Do you realise if god doesn’t spin this bullshit to itself then it would be impossible to live a human life. The only reason you can live as the human you are is because you are spinning so much shite and believing it that it’s creating your entire reality. It’s like a spiral of shit you’ve built around the nothingness, emptiness that you truly are to have you believe your alive as a human living a life of significance. If that’s not intelligent and clever I don’t know what is. It’s absolute genius!

The main problem is, when you say word of “nothingness “ is still something or form, because you name and label the words and thoughts as saying “nothing”. But there is no such a thing as thought, form, formlessness nor words. There is just “nothing” no such a thing as something. And these are not words. How do you know that these are sentences? Now, is before birth and after death. You are already what you are just so called thought processes make “you” so called separated. But “you” have never began or start. The say that “you are already awaken” comes from this perspective. Do you think there is a body and you are inside of it? Even if if you think that way, when body so called dies, there is a still body, but where are you? There is no “life” nor “death”. But unfortunately “mind” can never comprehend this, because mind still within the thought process. Additionally, you can say why are you writing these sentences if nothing is happening, it is meaningless ? Because, there is no such a thing as meaning or meaningless, still a “thought “. But for you, meaning is still “real” or “exist”. Thats why questioning is inevitable. Nothing has ever existed and happened, thats nirvana. Papaji Just watch these 2 videos, might be helpful. Peace!

@Arthur8769 I feel like my experience is somewhat uncommon for someone taking shrooms for the first time, but definitely feel that the experience aligns with other people's teachings and psychedelic trips. Ya there's definitely a freak out aspect we have towards these realizations. And as someone who is still very ego identified, it makes perfect sense. Relatedly, I just watched Shinzen Young's dark night of the soul video, and he said that sometimes when people start to experience nothingness (infinity, nothingness, it's all the same ) they freak out, and that the remedy is to notice that freaking out isn't nothingness, and to find the nothingness behind the freak out. I found that to be pretty powerful. And in terms of the solipsism aspect, I'm still very confused. However I don't think that immediately doubting/combating it is the correct remedy; I feel that accepting the possibility and regrounding in direct experience is the path forward. But just to regurgitate a theory I've already posted: I like to think that we are all waves in the ocean of conciousness, and that when we go into the depths of conciousness we realize we are alone the ocean, and each wave is a perspective. It's a cool theory that explains other concious appearing beings, but also explains the aloneness. I'm still very immature in terms of emotions. I came into this state from a state of depression, so trying to fall back on my emotions is like trying to get off a sinking ship onto a sinking lifeboat lol. However you and this thread have shown me how important positive emotional work is, and that's definitely something I'm going to add to my regimen! I'm also very immature in being grounded lol, historically I've been very anxious my entire life. But I'm currently making big steps to learn how to ground myself: mindfullness, presence, exercise. And deep down I know too that these darkest days can be the ones that provoke the most positive change depending on our actions/interpretations. Looking forward to seeing the light! It's good to hear that you have your own anxiety issues as well and that this path has really helped to manage them. And my answer for why the spiritual work is filled with fear is that fear occurs when our sense of self is being challenged, and spirituality is all about realizing who we really our. I'm just doing my best to enjoy the journey each day, even if at this part of my journey it feels horrible. The only way out is through, and I hope we can both continue to strive towards the truth even though the road is paved with fear. Thanks for the response, and even though you posted here for advice, you've given me an invaluable amount of it . Wish you the best of luck and hope your experience is wonderful!

Hey Thank you very much for sharing that! I very much appreciated reading all of it!! I can only imagine what it must have been like having an experience like the one you are talking about! I wonder how common it is? Looking from outside yours but also my experience too, which was way less intense I believe, I can say that it really seems like the some part of our mind freaks out when we feel this eternal and infinite sense of consciousness. And it feels very lonely because we only get to experience OUR perspective of consciousness and because we feel how infinite consciousness can be and so our rational mind does 2 + 2 = you are an alone consciousness. Which in a way is true but it's not the whole story. Somebody else's perspective is also part of the eternal consciousness that exists. You just didn't experience it. Also wonder why we can't experience somebody else's point of view? I found that sometimes I read a phrase or think of somebody that really clicks inside me and that opens a new door. Makes me change my perspectives. One very recent example is realizing that when I intentionally feel love, I am not faking an emotion but creating it. If everything is emptiness and nothingness it means I can fill it with love. Like God would. And that was quite beautiful to realize. Do a lot of grounding meditation, focus on the present moment, go for walks and try to experience love as others have said too! The experience I had very much changed something inside of me and it made me grow, even though I'm scared to admit it. And I'm sure by doing those things, you will start feeling much better too! as a footnote.. I also found myself pondering why do spiritual work when it seems so common experiencing fear and utter terror. I think I have answered that with peace. I am a much calmer person than I ever used to be. I had OCD and depression and panic attacks, on a daily basis and was struggling quite a bit. I have found that meditation and spirituality have helped me out like I never would have thought possible. I always went through, and still go through, meditation or whatever practice I'm doing with deep trust. I trust the process. Whatever I go through I have this trust in the process. and I think that has helped a lot too when coping with these unpleasant experiences. I have gained more than I have lost overall I believe, and I hope it is the same for you my friend.

@VeganAwake well, ajata says: absolute infinity is nothing. something cannot come out of pure nothing. therefore something is really nothing. Okay... really nothingness is infinite and any finite "something" in infinite nothingness is 0 by contrast or division, but ... observe a bird closely, without thinking, just observe it in the precise present moment. you will see yourself. the pure being that exists, right here, right now, out of the time. Is it "nothing"?

What's This All About? Starting at the beginning, what is advaita , Robert? "Advaita (Sankrit) means “not two”; it is the teaching we call nonduality. We all know what duality is—the idea that there are two or more things that exist, such as me and you. Nonduality is the realization, which occurs to some people, that beyond the appearance of separation all things are actually unified in an overarching actuality. This wholeness is called the Absolute, a condition which is infinite and eternal. All supposed separate things arise within it, because all things—not being eternal or infinite—are instead impermanent. So, the primal identity of both me and you is that our source is recognized to be the Absolute. When this realization is clearly held, our sense of being a separate individual dissolves into a deeper identity of Absolute wholeness. Getting to ajata, you’ve said that a person who’s had the realization of their identity as the Absolute is best in a position to understand ajata. What is ajata? Ajata (again Sanskrit) means “no origination,” or no creation. When something is said to have had no beginning (and thus no ending), we are getting into ajata. It is pointed to in a poem by Hui Neng: “When there is nothing from the start, where can dust alight?” It is a deeper look into advaita. In advaita, as a teaching tool, we speak of the relative (me and you) and the Absolute. Everyone knows what the relative is—me and you—but what exactly do we mean when we speak of the Absolute? Whatever we say about it boils down to concepts. These are appropriate for teaching Self-realization: but what actually goes beyond the concepts? Is this where sunyata comes in? Sunyata is another Sanskrit word; it means “emptiness.” Buddha’s teachings, over his lifetime, progressed from simple to sublime: the so-called wisdom teachings are principally the Heart Sutra and the Diamond Sutra. In the Heart Sutra are the six words, form is emptiness, emptiness is form. Emptiness is what ajata is talking about when it says that not anything has ever actually been created—or had existence—from the start. If not any thing has ever had actual existence, what do you have? Nothingness, or emptiness (though there would not be any thing to be empty of ). This is where ajata (there have been no real forms at all, from the beginning) and sunyata (emptiness is the only true or final condition, and even it does not “exist”) come together. In other words, as Nagarjuna has said, “Things do not arise, at any place, at any time.” Not even emptiness—which, being empty, is not a thing—exists alternative to forms: forms are emptiness; where there are no forms, emptiness is not something that “waits around.” Do forms arise in, or come from, emptiness? Forms generally are easy to understand. We are said to be forms. Because forms appear everywhere, our tendency is to think of emptiness as a form—another thing. Where the true condition is that emptiness is all there is, not anything exists as something called emptiness. In fact, since existence—“abiding” in some way—is not even in the equation, neither would the term nonexistence apply either. These—or any—designations are concepts about emptiness. But what is completely, utterly, totally empty is not the subject of description of any type. To emphasize the complete emptiness of emptiness, the writings on the subject point out that where emptiness is all that is, even emptiness would have to be empty of emptiness. So you must initially get that straight: emptiness is even empty of emptiness. Now, out of such a condition what could possibly come, or be arisen? Not anything can be generated by, or out of, 100% emptiness. Since emptiness is the “ultimate” condition, from the beginning, this is why it is said that there never has been origination or creation. So, the short answer is: forms are not forms, in reality: forms are emptiness. Forms do not exist, in truth. You said “we are forms.” Yes, to us creatures, forms do appear to exist. So, in the writings, forms are said to appear to exist, and in this case “exist” has a provisional meaning (emptiness does not appear to exist, because in truth it doesn’t). But every form is impermanent: every form is dependent on something—even forces such as “life” or “death”—for its existence. Not anything is a stand-alone, self-sufficient entity. If such a thing could come into existence, it would be permanent. It would not be subject to change: it would be immortal. So, in this sense, forms do not exist in any long-lasting, non-provisional way. This brings us to what appears: what appears to be real, or existent, is not the same as what is real or existent. A mirage appears to be real; a real source of quenching your thirst it is not. We appear (at least to ourselves) to be real. We are not: we are provisional—as are all other things—as mentioned previously. Our “existence” is in quotation marks: temporarily “real.” In fact, our true nature is emptiness—as are all things. When we as forms are not real, how real are any of the forms we perceive to be as real as we are? The world that we see only appears to be real? That is the point. In the writings, our existence, our world, is likened to a dream. You—whoever you think you are—are the dreamer of the dream. You are not outside of the dream, but within the dream. When the dream ends for you—when what you think of as “death” is present—the dream ends. “You” (which actually never was) disappear; everything you have thought existed disappears—the entire “universe,” with all its causes and forces. All forms are now purely emptiness, which they and the dreamer—despite appearances to the dreamer—have always been. Is it possible to awaken from, or to awaken to, the dream while still alive? Yes. That is what ajata and sunyata are telling us. When you recognize that this dream of life is your dream, and that dream and its dreamer have the same reality—that is, the lack of it—the “spell” has essentially been broken. What actually changes then? It’s simply a relaxed perspective on what’s apparently going on. In essence, we know that not anything is actually happening, in any unremedial or unredemptive sense. Life, suffering, joy and death appear to be happening (as the Bhagavad Gita says), cause and effect appear to be universal phenomena. But just as one does not wake up from a sleeping dream and take any of its events seriously, one no longer takes the supposed events of life as if they had any everlasting meaning. What about any meaning in understanding emptiness? That too does not matter. Whether one actually wakes up from the dream or not, the final ending of the dream for each of us will always be the same: the “presence” of sheer emptiness. None of us can ever make any “serious mistakes”: we, and all that we do or don’t do, are the same: empty of true reality or existence. I have only outlined some of the general points. If you believe that you exist and therefore have a mind, that mind will be bubbling with questions" -- Ajata Project Robert Wolfe

Thats ok my friend. Such as, “Nothing”, “nothingness “, “void”, “formlessness “, “emptiness “ or “pure consciousness “.

@Arthur8769 The experiences were years apart. It was trauma induced DP/DR. However during the 6 months were I was regularly absorbed by the void, I was often so absorbed by beauty it was incredible, everything was more vivid and intense. If you want to get out of the nothingness, I would recommend not to rebuild a "stronger self" but a loving self. I made that mistake. It made me feel miserable. In case you are interested how I experienced that one-ness heaven, I merged with the feeling of my right hand and asked " What am I if the only thing there is is the hand feeling?" --> Boom ego death, and I slowly glided into heaven for a few days. I am out now, back in samsara Shinzen young would recommend you try to love the experience to death. Watch his video on youtube about the dark night of the soul. He is my favorite meditation teacher.

Hey thank you for your different approach to the matter as it has helped me understand it better! I think I have understood that part of what I had experienced was driven by thought and not self-awareness and self-inquiry. @Endangered-EGO you might relate with the following description? when you said you also had a very frightening experience of nothingness. I'd love to know how yours was. Removing all the paradigms, the earth and the universe from the picture of reality was an exercise and I think my mind made up a vision, in which I was feeling and existing as an all filling "spirit" of just nothingness. Kind of like an empty universe. With nobody else in it, no beauty, no love. And that was very terrifying because my mind had dropped me in this inhospitable place, kind of like floating aimlessly through space. It was a nightmare. And it shook me up very much inside that I had to do some grounding work to come back to reality in a way. Also being able to name this as you've said "Solipsism" has helped me to understand it better and to realize that what I had experienced wasn't really THE TRUTH. It's also helped to understand deeper that I am in fact not alone as I'm just a "part" of a greater consciousness. So thank you for that! However this experience I think has helped me look within more, and really just listen to awareness and let emotions flow as they come. Also some exercises about really just letting yourself feel the emotions you're experiencing. Also thank you very much for the video recommendation and the time stamps too! I think I might listen to the whole thing in the end but what I did listen to was very helpful !! Talks about how we created ourselves and this universe and it is pure beauty and love and how it couldn't be any other way. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Hey, thank you for that. I can relate to what you're saying. I have taken a step back and really allowed myself to ground back into reality, took walks and did grounding meditation and it has helped a lot. I am now becoming aware of love, small step after another. How did you end up experiencing full blown nothingness and then an awakening to love and perfection? What did you go through? Have you just been sitting in meditation focusing on your awareness? What I found myself doing is just sit and pay attention to my sense of awareness. Curious to know your experiences if you're okay with sharing them!

I know what you mean, in do nothing meditation, when one gets really really relaxed, it's almost when the mind ( which is no mind and just activities of awareness ) are about to fade away, it's when the pure awareness existence remains in its pure form, really you just 'Are', the peace is beyond words, it's amazingly beautiful when 'you', 'mind' and all the stories are slowly fades away and the awareness remains alone, One can get into this state without help of any psychedelics but what if Leo is right actually and this is baseline consciousness and the work begins from here, you empty the awareness from the garbage of the mind (unconscious awareness activities) first then consciously fill it with infinite love, joy, bliss. I don't see any limits for absolute Nothingness.

He is not wrong he is describing some part of the nothingness. It is possible to experience it without love, I had the full blown nothingness without love years ago. The pit of the void, dark night of the soul. I also had another distinct awakening into "Heaven" perfection/love recently. Nothingness without love is terrifying. Or nothingness without One-ness. The mind freaks out. @Arthur8769 Be kind to yourself, ground yourself. Nature is a miracle. If you look for beauty, you will become absorbed by it. beauty in see hear feel. Nature, music, people/animals.

@James123 that´s all there is! So exactly, happy "new year". Although "new year" its just a thought in between the nothingness right

@James123 nothingness ?❤️ Happy New Year ?

It is useful to look at the world as you see it. But do not cling to the world as you see it, because how you see the world will change. The strange thing about reality is that it has no anker point. The act of observing and coming to realize what reality is, changes reality. That itself is one of the many aspects of reality that is ever changing. As this world changes you will get a true sense of what Relativity is. Each point is only a point in relationship to all other points. Each position is only a position in relationship to other positions. For example, you might think that you started out as a unconscious child. You grew up and have come to learn to increase your consciousness. You are on a pathway to higher consciousness. Eventually you will realize you are the Creator. You will realize it to such an extend that you will become the Creator. Then you, as the Creator, will make the fully conscious choice to manifest yourself and become the unconscious child. That choice will require consciousness on a level far beyond anything you thought you ever had. Yet, that sophistication of consciousness, that power, that intelligence, that pure Being, that is what the unconscious child is. That unconscious child is the direct Choice of the Creator. Your beginning is your end. Truly, the end and the beginning were never the beginning nor the end. Each moment is the beginning and the end. This one and only moment this is the Choice of the Creator, each causing itself. Life is not linear, it is circular. See, the Creator does not create by drawing a line. The Creator creates by pulling from a Singularity of Nothingness a Circle. Can you see this? Can you see that when he pulls at the Singularity, the Circle will serve-emerge? Creation does not operate in the way the human mind conceptalizes reality in general. Creation is not building. Creation is the process of pulling apart the fabric of Nothingness. I grab into Nothingness, I grab Whiteness, and by pulling it from Nothingness, Blackness emerges on the other side. That is what it means to pull Whiteness from Nothingness. It means to seperate Nothingness into Whiteness and Blackness. Can you see how impossible this is? Can you see that you can pull more than all things from this Nothingness? This is the nature of relativity. It is groundless, because it's ground is Nothingness. It is self-justifying, self-creating. The Circle created itself.

Notice that you created the ‘nothingness’ after you woke up. I’m not sure how anaesthesia works, but if it’s like sleep then you imagined the ‘nothingness’ after you woke up. Nothing happened whilst you were asleep.

@PepperBlossoms The reductionism you use makes me doubt that you've really accessed any nondual state. Have you ever tried psychedelics? When you're in a nondual state, it goes very meta. It's not about 'believing' or 'falling for it'. You become actuality, prior to the unconscious biases that filter and narrate our perception. A pure awareness not distorted by the ego. Of course there are teachers whose ego will use "spirituality" or "non-duality" for selfish egoic reasons. Most of which have never even been in a nondual state. However an actual awakening is to see exactly how all dualities collapse and in this fashion deconstruct the mind, removing the biased filters on reality. For example you say our in your comment that 'our inputs are limited with our eyes, ears, nose, mouth, and skin as well as the brain processing'. This is a reductionist assumption. What about the stomach? Why is "brain processing" an intelligent process anyways? You would need to do a lengthy investigation to explore all the ways that statement is a belief. And if we're hooked up to a machine, why is there a machine? Is the machine hooked up to another higher-dimensional machine? Such thinking is mental masterbation because none of that matters when you're searching for real answers: Why can anything exist at all? Why is reality intelligent? Why is reality aware? I agree that non-duality is not 'the final answer to the understanding of all of everything'. Another reductionist perspective though. It's not an answer, first off. You're not going to understand computer science by entering a nondual state. But it is possible to understand at a penetrating level the simultaneous infinitude and nothingness of reality.

No? Have you ever gone under anesthesia? It's pure nothingness....but not even that because there are no arising thoughts to even label it.

@hyruga Something interesting I learnt from Alan Watts: When you die, you will immediately start your next life. Why? Because the gap between lives, which you might call ‘nothingness’ has no time element, so effectively it doesn’t last any time at all. So whether your next life starts in 10 years, 10 million years or 10 trillion years, it will be immediate because the nothingness has no time, therefore it will pass in a flash. Hence, the moment you die you will be reborn. Not a moment will be wasted ‘in between’ lives.

So I was feeling bad about something. A thought came to me saying 'observe'..So I stopped to see what I can find. I closed my eyes,it was quiet anyways (so that helped) and I searched my body sensations for a little while. I didnt have any thoughts for some moments because I was trying to feel so my attention was fully focused on my body, I was scanning. so It was only thoughts. I stayed there.Nothing else. Thoughts were bombarding me and I was aware of them but....in the midst of living my life and doing something (I was on the internet like now) I think that I miss some of my thoughts,they are left unnoticed. But Im not aware of this. So....overwhelming thoughts are making me miserable. But Im not feeling it somewhere in my body.Im just experiencing it. Is it maybe because Im not trained enough to spot the feeling in my body? I sensed nothingness there. I dont know.I was calm.No worries.So...is it only thoughts?Thats it?

Infinite is something that you have learned. limitless or endless in space, extent, or size; impossible to measure or calculate. This is the vocabulary explanation of infinite. It is very identical with what you say. But truth never comes from learning. Not knowing is nothingness. If “you” can name and label the experience thats an illusion. Do you remember anything before your birth? Was there any infinite before your birth? No it wasn’t, because before birth was genuinely not knowing. Thats why your so called birth happened with learning and knowing. Awakening is genuinely not knowing, which is before birth. Read the page before Samādhi stages, when universe and space conceptualization collapses before the last stage. Cant be more clear than this. You should listen the men of intelligence.

@James123 You're missing the point. They're pointers, of course infinity cannot be grasped through mind neither can nothingness so every image you make will not be IT, but we use the word to point to something (which is nothing) that cannot be shown. We might as well talk about infinite nothingness.

I clearly explained brother, differences between nothingness and infinite. What is not clear about?

I'm not disagreeing, just saying it's word plays, of course when we use 'God' we Know with a capital K that we're talking about the same source. We're not perceiving the world from a religious perception. When one uses Infinity he might as well be talking about Nothingness. I think there are some miscommunications here also.

@SpiritualAwakening Because when you say “infinity” you identify or form it with “something “, and naming or labeling the so called “experience “. Nothingness has no identification nor form. As an example, deep sleep, what was before so called birth. If you dont think during the day, there will be no “during the day”. When you “think” as even saying infinite, you are right in duality. (Even nothing is a word, which is something , but cant explain without that word). If you never learn what infinity is how can you know the experience that you having is “infinity”? You can realize at that moment, “not thinking” gives you sleeping quality and realize that only thinking create so called universe. Therefore if you dont think, you are before birth. Thats why it is called “awakening “. You are already nothing, if you forget everything you have learned you are already yourself. You dont need to name and label to become yourself. You are already. Just empty your cup. Peace!