Confused: Do I really want the deepest awakening?

[Gustav]

I am confused about the point of enlightenment work, especially at the ultra-high levels.

How do we reconcile the following (this is my terrified interpretation):

On the one hand, no possible life can have true happiness, fulfillment and peace of mind, even if all your wishes were met and you dominated the world, without becoming spiritually enlightened. The most fantastic life we can conceive of would be nothing compared to being enlightened.

On the other hand, to enlighten oneself is to annihilate oneself. And further, to realize one is God, Love, Infinity, and all the rest, is just too much to take. To go into that territory I must kick and scream and burn in purgatory. If I knew what I really asked for, I would not want it. @Leo Gura says "YOU DON’T WANT IT." Jed McKenna says "Waking up is kinda dumb."

When we say "You don’t want it", we mean "I, me, the ego, this person right here talking, yes me!" don’t want it, but do we also somehow point to something beyond "me/I" that don’t want it, whatever that even means? I mean can there be resistance to deeper awakenings even long after one sees through or "destroys" the ego? How is it possible to not be able to stomach deeper awakenings if there is no ego at all to have preferences and have to "stomach" things?

See I can’t help but think somehow one could regret having awakened, or at least becoming conscious of specific things (God, Love, etc.). I’ve got the impression that some awakenings can be so deep and radical that they’re just too much to handle EVEN for someone who has lost their ego long ago and have no stakes in life or preferences, that beyond a certain point awakenings will only be more hellish. Behind reality’s final curtain there is eternal hellfire. In short, it is simply not possible to completely surrender and not suffer at the deepest of the deepest insights of reality.

It seems twisted that pursuing deeper and deeper awakenings can lead to greater and greater hell, but I know that to have a nihilistic view of spiritual enlightenment is to misunderstand it. Yet this is my impression that I’m trying to sort out. I don’t know what do make of it and what to do with myself.

I hope what I’m asking makes sense, but in short it boils down to the question: How is it possible to not be able to stomach deeper awakenings if there is no ego at all to have preferences and have to "stomach" things? Or simplified: How and why are deeper awakenings beyond ego-death challenging and difficult?

Thanks!

Gustav

[IAmTheHolySpirit]

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On the other hand, to enlighten oneself is to annihilate oneself. And further, to realize one is God, Love, Infinity, and all the rest, is just too much to take. To go into that territory I must kick and scream and burn in purgatory. If I knew what I really asked for, I would not want it. @Leo Gura says "YOU DON’T WANT IT." Jed McKenna says "Waking up is kinda dumb."

"It is too much to take in" is merely a thought. It is not true, for there isn't really anything to "take in" it is merely a shift of attention. Infinity naturally appears to you and is unfolding perfectly, it is not something "you" "take in" because, in fact, you are the infinite itself. The infinite can easily contain the infinite. There is absolutely no worry about "it being too much" because you are the "too much" and you can't be too much. "I must kick and scream and burn in purgatory" this is not true, actually this is the opposite of what should happen. All you need to do to come to clear clarity about what you are is to keep perceiving the perceiver. That is only one thing you need to "do" and it is pretty much effortless. The ego that "kicks, screams and burns" is merely a phenomenon appearing within you. If you simply shift your attention to the awareness that is perceiving it, there is pure awareness and silence. So you have no worries about the ego dying or dissolution. These are all thoughts the mind wants you to believe, he is interpreting enlightenment and the consequences to its own benefit. Do not trust it.

The one who says "You don't want it" is talking to your ego. If you identify as the ego, "you" don't want it. But you are not ego. You are the infinite itself. And you do indeed, want to know yourself. It is not a matter of "wanting", the fact that you have stumbled upon all this wisdom is in fact proof from the universe that it must that you sprout into your true nature and there is no way for the ego to stop that. You are already too aware for you to go back. 

Waking up is not dumb, that is absolutlely foolish to say. It is the most amazing discovery a human life can ever discover. What believes to be finite, reveals itself to be infinite. All the worries, depression, anxiety, everything becomes replaced by the truth, absolute serenity, peace, love, compassion, wisdom, absolute oneness. There is no reason to believe it is "dumb". It only appears dumb to ignorance. The ego thinks it is dumb to awaken, and dissoluting the ego. Of course the ego will believe that. You are not the ego.

 

 

 

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When we say "You don’t want it", we mean "I, me, the ego, this person right here talking, yes me!" don’t want it, but do we also somehow point to something beyond "me/I" that don’t want it, whatever that even means? I mean can there be resistance to deeper awakenings even long after one sees through or "destroys" the ego? How is it possible to not be able to stomach deeper awakenings if there is no ego at all to have preferences and have to "stomach" things?

Exactly, there is nothing for you to stomach. You simply realize it is all ALREADY "stomached" within your self. 

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See I can’t help but think somehow one could regret having awakened, or at least becoming conscious of specific things (God, Love, etc.). I’ve got the impression that some awakenings can be so deep and radical that they’re just too much to handle EVEN for someone who has lost their ego long ago and have no stakes in life or preferences, that beyond a certain point awakenings will only be more hellish. Behind reality’s final curtain there is eternal hellfire. In short, it is simply not possible to completely surrender and not suffer at the deepest of the deepest insights of reality.

The impression that you got about awakenings being "too much to handle" is absolute bullshit. The more you go along the path of ego-dissolution, it only becomes easier and easier to be in the peak of your stillness. It naturally becomes easier to dissolute because more and more attachments are being dropped, the more attachments you drop, the easier it is. Awakening is only "hard" if you resist it. Awakening itself is completely natural and easy, it is only if we resist it, use the mind too much that it appears to be "complex". To be enlightened is completely simple and all you must actually "do" is remain aware of your true self. You must discover the true self, its existence, and then merge with it, be one with it, love it, enjoy it, never look for anything in or out of this world, know your true self to be the source of all existence itself. When you know your true self, you are completely fulfilled, you are like on the peak of "MDMA" except you are completely sober. You have no limits, completely free, completely yourself, completely still, completely honest, completely real. Completely one with the universe. That is your true self. You are that infinite that "you" appear to have glimpses of. It is a matter of acknowledging it, and being with this discovery and directly experienced truth. At one point you simply say "no" to anything that says "you are not the truth". Any thought, emotion or sensation, is simply perceived. It is not bought. Naturally there appears to be something within that is "keeping up" the observing of the mind. You are not aware of being aware in effort, if effort appears, know that it is because you are trying to use the mind. It is completely effortless to be aware of being aware and stay aware of being aware. Know everything else to be a complete distraction. You need your attention on the TRUTH ONLY. No matter what happens.

Awakenings are NOT hellish. They are only hellish for the ego. You are the true self, and for you it is a joy. The ego is burning away in your presence. It is absolutely wonderful. Nothing hellish about that. Don't listen to the ego's perspective, the ego's perspective will soon be gone and you'll be left alone as god itself.

You might identify with the ego a bit and suffer, and that might be inevitable, but it is completely minimal and gets easier to see through, see that it is merely the ego and you are that which is perceiving the perceiver itself. Just know this is major relief because it is true and we usually ignore this fact.

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It seems twisted that pursuing deeper and deeper awakenings can lead to greater and greater hell, but I know that to have a nihilistic view of spiritual enlightenment is to misunderstand it. Yet this is my impression that I’m trying to sort out. I don’t know what do make of it and what to do with myself.

You can completely throw out this impression. It is completely useless for you and only brings doubt. Whatever gave you the urge to make this post, it is the ego, and it is doubt, and you bought it. You must not be confused, you must not look into confusing things. It is only when you have interest in the confusing, that you then believe yourself to be confused. You are that which is perceiving the confusion. That is not confused, and that is yourself. 

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I hope what I’m asking makes sense, but in short it boils down to the question: How is it possible to not be able to stomach deeper awakenings if there is no ego at all to have preferences and have to "stomach" things? Or simplified: How and why are deeper awakenings beyond ego-death challenging and difficult?

There is nothing to stomach. Relax. Ego-death awakenings are completely flowing, fluid, perfect, natural, they are NOT challenging and difficult. They are literally ONLY challenging and difficult if you are doing some stupid shit. Take some psychedelics and watch Moojiji on youtube and you'll become a sage in a few months. Obviously you must be vigilant and you must honestly be ready to embody the truth. You won't accept half-assedness. You are completely all in for the truth.

I completely encourage you to go beyond the mind, beyond distractions, beyond illusions. You can awaken and it is completely natural for you. The mind will appear to be confused but you simply stay perceiving of that which is perceiving. Stay aware of being aware, that is your true place and nothing can touch you there. 

[deso]

@IAmTheHolySpirit would you advice somebody that just really doesn’t want to seek the truth to still do so? Like if someone just has no interest in realising himself and rather wants to stay ignorant, would he still be happier with the highest of realisations?

Don’t you need some deep desire for it to really be able to get you there? If your feeling is telling you do not go there and you still continue isn’t this counterproductive? As in feeling is it that tells you how far you really wanna go, if you go further it becomes hell.

[IAmTheHolySpirit]

1 minute ago, deso said:

@IAmTheHolySpirit would you advice somebody that just really doesn’t want to seek the truth to still do so? Like if someone just has no interest in realising himself and rather wants to stay ignorant, would he still be happier with the highest of realisations?

Don’t you need some deep desire for it to really be able to get you there? If your feeling is telling you do not go there and you still continue isn’t this counterproductive? As in feeling is it that tells you how far you really wanna go, if you go further it becomes hell.

Yes I would advice seeking the truth anyway. Even if you have no interest in that, that is even better for you. When you have too much interest, it blocks your clear seeing. Minimal interest is needed actually. It is a very sober, clear way of realizing what you truly are. You don't need to have interest and have thoughts and desires about enlightenment and believing it is some great thing. You can quietly recognize it and be it. It does not have to be messy at all. It is only the attached mind that makes it messy. Yes even one who believes (because it is not true) he wants to stay ignorant, will be infinitely happier with the realization of the self. It is not something that you may compare... you are comparing ignorance and the minimal pleasure that comes from the ego to literal infinite joy, love, peace, compassion OF THE HIGHEST INTELLIGENCE AND LOVE OF THE UNIVERSE ITSELF.

You don't have to have some "deep" desire, none of that is necessary. You can get there because it is natural for you. It is the truth of what you are. This isn't about desiring it, but merely having a bit of curiosity and being vigilant about it at first. The feeling is unreliable, unstable, unconsistent, so you can't believe it when it says "Do not go there".

The thing within you that would EVER say "Do not go to the truth" is the untrue. It is the ego, manifesting itself as a feeling, transmitting the information of "Do not go there" so now you'll experience doubt, and know to steer away from the truth. It is all the plot of the ego. It is extremely manipulative and you can't take it lightly. That is the ultimate phenomenon appearing within consciousness that you must transcend to reclaim your true nature. 

It might be hell for a bit, but if you know what to do in the moments of hell, and if you have trust in yourself that you will make it on the other side because you directly are experiencing god; it becomes not so bad, and also it is exactly the time to exercise your power of discernment. Hell only appears in identification with the mind. If even in the strongest "mind storm" you simply remain aware of awareness, it can't touch you. It will steer up a lot of thoughts, emotions and sensations, but if you merely stay in the "I Am" or watch some Moojiji videos on youtube, you'll be golden. You simply do this until you become one with god. I recommend taking psychedelics and watching Moojiji on youtube, that is the fastest way to become enlightened efficiently.

[EnlightenmentBlog]

To quote our familiar source: "You're damned if you do, you're even more damned if you don't" - Jed, or smth along these lines.

[James123]

@Gustav watch the movie matrix. Do you want to be Neo or Cypher?

[Gustav]

On 2020-05-31 at 2:39 AM, IAmTheHolySpirit said:

The impression that you got about awakenings being "too much to handle" is absolute bullshit. The more you go along the path of ego-dissolution, it only becomes easier and easier to be in the peak of your stillness.

This makes sense to me in theory.

On 2020-05-31 at 2:39 AM, IAmTheHolySpirit said:

When you know your true self, you are completely fulfilled, you are like on the peak of "MDMA" except you are completely sober.

This is exactly my secret wish that I’ve now got the impression is a dangerous belief and not necessarily always true.

On 2020-05-31 at 2:39 AM, IAmTheHolySpirit said:

Take some psychedelics and watch Moojiji on youtube and you'll become a sage in a few months.

Hahaha sure!!

Thanks for an exhaustive answer and the good spirit!!

On 2020-05-31 at 6:41 PM, EnlightenmentBlog said:

To quote our familiar source: "You're damned if you do, you're even more damned if you don't" - Jed, or smth along these lines.

Yeah, therefore, as far as I’m concerned there’s no choice but to walk the path a let the chips fall where the may.

On 2020-05-31 at 8:31 PM, James123 said:

@Gustav watch the movie matrix. Do you want to be Neo or Cypher?

It’s one of my favorites, it gets better every time I watch it! Cypher learned the truth and didn’t accept it, which is foolish, so yeah I’d pick Neo haha.

On 2020-05-31 at 9:35 PM, Meta-Man said:

As Jed says, it is only those who can’t not wake up, that wakes up.

I totally resonate with this. One part of me wants the goodies of enlightenment, one part doesn’t care and just want to creep out of my skin and destroy falseness just for truth’s sake. I have long ago crossed the point of no return.

On 2020-05-31 at 9:35 PM, Meta-Man said:

If you’ve died, you’re dead. If you’re still frightened, you haven’t gone through the final door. Simple

This is what I want to hear, and also what seems correct in theory. But I know theory and practice doesn’t necessarily add up, that’s why I wanted to clarify this issue in this thread.

Like I said I’ve got confused by @Leo Gura basically saying that the deepest insights are the hardest to accept, but then since the truth of no-self is the basic and usually first insight, it seems contradictory that there would be significant resistance to accepting further truths. Essentially: for an ego, the simple fact of "no-ego" should be the only real threat.

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Thanks for all the input! In conclusion then, if I have a full no-self realization and truly embody it, there should not be any resistance to any other truths, like I am God, I am infinite Love, which equals infinite intelligence, etc. etc., since resistance is an exclusive function of ego?

Edited June 1, 2020 by Gustav
typo

[James123]

21 minutes ago, Gustav said:

s one of my favorites, it gets better every time I watch it! Cypher learned the truth and didn’t accept it, which is foolish, so yeah I’d pick Neo haha.

Lol  but he sacrificed himself for the truth (in the matrix 1 at the end) . Path of pain  

Edited June 1, 2020 by James123

[Gustav]

8 hours ago, James123 said:

Lol  but he sacrificed himself for the truth (in the matrix 1 at the end) . Path of pain  

Of course, I accept sacrifice of the ego. My speculation concerned if deep truths also require sacrifice of peace of mind.

[James123]

1 hour ago, Gustav said:

Of course, I accept sacrifice of the ego. My speculation concerned if deep truths also require sacrifice of peace of mind.

when you find the truth, you will sacrifice every  molecule of your body and mind, and you become infinite silent moment or awareness . You are the moment, whatever you see is now is you, including the body. You think you are seeing from your eyes, No. you just named the eyes as it can see, eyes have no differences than the arms, or tv. Therefore, You are here, when read these messages, you will read yourself.  you are the source  

Edited June 2, 2020 by James123

[Nahm]

@Gustav

Truth is peace of mind. Literally infinitely nothing happening. 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Nahm Lol it’s so fun isn’t it, who knew going from The odd Guided Meditation 5 years ago would lead to this journey...

[Nahm]

@LfcCharlie4 Indeed! ????

[Gustav]

14 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Gustav

Truth is peace of mind. Literally infinitely nothing happening. 

In that case, if the work revolves around getting to deeper and deeper levels of truth, and truth is peace of mind, can someone elaborate on what is meant by "Be careful what you wish for."

Be careful what I wish for? Really?

Is this only referring to the toil and work and pain of being in the process of awakening rather than what comes after "popping out the other side" so to speak?

[Nahm]

@Gustav

If there were levels of truth, that would imply one level is ‘truer’ than a previous level, making the previous level not the truth. That could go on for a while apparently. Be mindful of what you focus on, as reality is becoming accordingly. 

[Nahm]

On 5/30/2020 at 7:09 PM, Gustav said:

I am confused about the point of enlightenment work, especially at the ultra-high levels.

How do we reconcile the following (this is my terrified interpretation):

On the one hand, no possible life can have true happiness, fulfillment and peace of mind, even if all your wishes were met and you dominated the world, without becoming spiritually enlightened. The most fantastic life we can conceive of would be nothing compared to being enlightened.

On the other hand, to enlighten oneself is to annihilate oneself. And further, to realize one is God, Love, Infinity, and all the rest, is just too much to take. To go into that territory I must kick and scream and burn in purgatory. If I knew what I really asked for, I would not want it. @Leo Gura says "YOU DON’T WANT IT." Jed McKenna says "Waking up is kinda dumb."

When we say "You don’t want it", we mean "I, me, the ego, this person right here talking, yes me!" don’t want it, but do we also somehow point to something beyond "me/I" that don’t want it, whatever that even means? I mean can there be resistance to deeper awakenings even long after one sees through or "destroys" the ego? How is it possible to not be able to stomach deeper awakenings if there is no ego at all to have preferences and have to "stomach" things?

See I can’t help but think somehow one could regret having awakened, or at least becoming conscious of specific things (God, Love, etc.). I’ve got the impression that some awakenings can be so deep and radical that they’re just too much to handle EVEN for someone who has lost their ego long ago and have no stakes in life or preferences, that beyond a certain point awakenings will only be more hellish. Behind reality’s final curtain there is eternal hellfire. In short, it is simply not possible to completely surrender and not suffer at the deepest of the deepest insights of reality.

It seems twisted that pursuing deeper and deeper awakenings can lead to greater and greater hell, but I know that to have a nihilistic view of spiritual enlightenment is to misunderstand it. Yet this is my impression that I’m trying to sort out. I don’t know what do make of it and what to do with myself.

I hope what I’m asking makes sense, but in short it boils down to the question: How is it possible to not be able to stomach deeper awakenings if there is no ego at all to have preferences and have to "stomach" things? Or simplified: How and why are deeper awakenings beyond ego-death challenging and difficult?

Thanks!

Gustav

Gustav, the emotions you’re experiencing are the alignment and discord, between your own thoughts and the source of feeling within you. Read the emotional scale a few times to understand this. You’ve been thinking this way, and suffering the discord of it for far too long. Change the way you think about yourself and the life you are creating. Don’t search endlessly for a truth or answer outside of you...you already have the guidance of feeling & emotion. Let it be simple, and it is. If you have any questions after reading the scale and expressing a few times, feel free to pm me anytime you like with specific questions, if I can be of any help. 

[Leo Gura]

The deepest awakening is Infinite Love. If you got it, it would kill you and there's be nothing left but Love forever. This Love would love itself forever without any problems. The human you would be so dead you could not even remember it or miss it. It would literally be Heaven, precisely because you would be gone.

But before you go worrying about all this, how about you lock down a tiny shallow awakening?

Don't waste your time on pipe dreams.

[GreenWoods]

On 5/31/2020 at 2:09 AM, Gustav said:

: How is it possible to not be able to stomach deeper awakenings if there is no ego at all to have preferences and have to "stomach" things?

Because there is still a subtle form of ego. Ego goes extremely deep. 

As long as you are physically alive there will be some ego. So yeah, utlimate heaven is only possible with mahasamadhi.

But it gets already very heaven-like before that! Given that your awakening is balanced.

I conceptualize the facets of awakening into these two categories:

- Category A:

• no self
• Nothingness
• Imagination
• life is a dream
• ...

- Category B:

• God
• Love
• Consciousness 
• Infinity
• Bliss
• Peace
• ...

If you have too much awakenings into category A without balancing it with category B you likely get depressed. But if you have a balanced awakening, a full complete awakenig, then that's no issue (once integrated).

Edited February 24, 2021 by GreenWoods

[traveler]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The deepest awakening is Infinite Love. If you got it, it would kill you and there's be nothing left but Love forever. This Love would love itself forever without any problems. The human you would be so dead you could not even remember it or miss it. It would literally be Heaven, precisely because you would be gone.

But before you go worrying about all this, how about you lock down a tiny shallow awakening?

Don't waste your time on pipe dreams.

"Would do, would do, would be, would be." You're still in the dream of seperation, duality; the relative seperate from the absolute. OR you're consciously being a ?, but I don't think so.

 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, traveler said:

"Would do, would do, would be, would be." You're still in the dream of seperation, duality; the relative seperate from the absolute. OR you're consciously being a ?, but I don't think so.

You are not infinitely conscious right now. So spare me the neo-Advaita platitudes.

Notice that you are definitely not infinitely consciousness. At least admit it to yourself if not to me.