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These creatures exist in nature, the real world, it seems they want You from You, they attack your mind, cause confusion, it's absolutely nuts. They target your weaknesses. The spiritual realm exists in this reality too. This phenomena seems to be all secondary, like the additional dials within consciousness. If you have Pure consciousness/nonduality you are good, no need to worry, but damn I really need to get on my shit.

@digitalkaine the last year or so i have been accidentally finding more and more connections with the bible being metaphorical for enlightment and nondual teachings. Especially a few times on psychedelics. Its like the bible points straight to the truth but christians miss it all and take it literally. "I am a finger pointing to the moon. Dont look at me. Look at the moon" Christians are looking at the finger thinking it is the moon. I also cant help but feel like my ego mind is twisting things in my own preffered direction and that im probably incorrect and most of the bible is not originally about nonduality but nonetheless.

@mandyjw I understand the implicarions of nonduality but I wanted to understand other prespectives too.

There has to be some basis of perceptual difference for people to even make the thought-based distinctions though. You might reject this idea possibly by bringing up theoretical distinctions which are more or less “fully” created in thought alone, but I come at this seeing thought itself as just a sixth sense door. I think you agreed earlier that thought was the same infinite intelligence as everything else or something by a similar name. You probably get the idea. I know you’re pretty familiar/experienced with the nonduality stuff. I’m just pointing back to duality because integrating the two has been of a lot of value for me, and I was just sharing in case someone here might be interested in contemplating “further” into this. No need to go back and forth on the perceptual difference topic between you and I though. I think we’ve essentially said what was needed at this point.

Nonduality is not about attepting to metaphorically smash everything together into some kind of imagined non-dual soup within a thought process. For example a race car in a japanese auto factory is never going to appear the same as your grandmother's rocking chair on the front porch.... there IS apparent separation in that sense. Nonduality is the recognition that the separate sense of self within the body("you") or any body for that matter("them") was never real to begin with. It's the END of the experience of being a separate individual that needs to find something. OR It's the END of seeking because it's clearly recognized that the very one seeking is just an illusion of self. AND simultaneously Nonduality IS ALSO the experience of being a separate individual because there is no real separate experiencer for that experience to be separate for.... there's NO WAY to get outside of EVERYTHING to point back at it. No real individual = No real separation Not two = THIS exactly as it appears "The separation never occurred" - A Course in Miracles It appears or seems hidden by already being the case. The phrase "Non-dual awareness" is not used because that would suggest that there is "someone" who could become aware that there isn't any separation. Nobody becomes aware, nobody becomes awake, nobody becomes liberated.... and yes that seems like a big let down for the "sense of self" that so desperately wants to wake-up.... totally get it! But they're already isn't a separate individual which is exactly what the word Awakening is pointing out. ❤

Sensory experience is built upon difference/duality. Lack of food > Hunger > Seek food > Eat food > Lack of hunger If “reality” is not also dualistic, how is language dualistic? Is language not “reality”? Creating language, thought, anything a human ever does is just as much a response to sensory experience as burning your hand and pulling it back from the fire. Seems as if you’re creating a duality between your reported accurate experience of reality and other things which are ultimately just that very same reality. Nonduality and duality are ultimately the same. You don’t get one appearance without the other. 0=1. People seem to be falling in love with the = and forgetting the entire role of 0 and 1 which allowed them to ever reach =. I’m just telling you guys from personal experience: insight into the whole equation takes you far deeper than getting caught up on one part of the equation.

Doesn't matter, duality is experienced by creatures without language. Humans aren't the only living things seeing duality. Any experience is duality. A creature eats food, it doesn't eat itself, there's cognition of self and other. This applies to all living things even plants where their "cognition" is alien to us. Nothing in absence of something is never experienced. It'd just be total nothingness. Something does not exist in absence of nothing, because things are made of perception. Remove nothing (named consciousness) and there's no awareness, hence no perception and again just nothingness alone which can't be experienced. All of this is happening inside the appearance of duality. Toad trips are happening inside of duality still. It's just so far from this that it seems to not be. A whiteout would be nonduality. But it's not because you can whiteout and duality continues: See me here. Infinity can't be experienced in the actual literal sense. Only finitude can be experienced. You can easily recognize that the color red you see is fundamentally infinity, but its appearing as something finite which is red and not blue. Your interpretation of it changes so red = blue, up = down, but that's cognition. It is still appearing as something finite.

I wanna say oneness, Nonduality, true beauty, love, readily seen in all things etc. But it’s ineffable and extraordinarily unique as well. It’s all that and more, and that more is only for you, and is a complete mystery until it unfolds in actuality. So when you ask the only honest answer I can give to you, with respect to you, is I don’t know, you have to find out. If you share it, then I’d at least have some idea of what your experience is like. The thought ‘seeing’ is as much actually seeing as the thought ‘third eye’ is as much the actuality of ‘what’s seen’. Also, on the flip side, ‘stuff in sight’ has more implication left on the bone. A contemplation of the opposite, ‘no ‘stuff’ in sight’ might be fun. Or funny. Potential there for both actually. ? ? Beautiful. I’d say third eye points to what you’re experiencing. Any affirmation though would of course be found directly, in the resonating. Sure sounds like it is to me. Degrees is a thought, implying differences & separations. Useful in creation, but doesn’t apply to third eye. Third eye is other worldly. What isn’t.

No. No decrease at all. Might be helpful to think of nonduality as turquoise & behind. But only in a very loose framing sense, as spiral dynamics doesn’t actually exist in regard to nonduality. Not easily communicable, but as another loose pointer you could think of spiral dynamics as all self referential beliefs, with a lot of ‘othering’ subtle beliefs, vs one well aware of who they are and consciously creating their reality.

@ImHooper hello, sorry about the tragic loss... all you can do right now is to, try your best to comfort her family and loved ones. it might be hard for u too right now. nobody claims to know what exactly death brings. maybe she reincarnates in a form which she's aligned with, or maybe she dissolves in to the absolute(merge with god). on a relative sense, she did exist and she no longer exist in this world. !(that we all know for sure) in a higher perspective of nonduality, she never existed and always existed. it's both. neither do we exist . its both nothing and everything. I believe you can get through this, as everything "this too shall pass" much love!

Everyone’s as real as you, and yes, all that is, is ‘consciousness or field of awareness’. And yet, nonduality isn’t a paradigm. Nonduality just means not two. So it doesn’t define, point to, or even imply what is, only what isn’t. Duality, is a paradigm. And also not. If you look at your hand and cover up your palm, it looks like five separate fingers. If you uncover your palm, they’re really all one. Don’t believe what you see. Check direct experience to verify these thoughts / inquiries. Think the thought whatever it is, then the opposite… see if anything changes at all. If thoughts don’t seem to make any difference, see about meditation. ‘Empty your cup’. Don’t believe what you think.

I have found the Waking Up app helpful in developing a consistent practice. I like it because it has a combination of more basic mindfulness with also serious nondual pointing instructions. It also has some awesome mini-courses by Adyashanti, Loch Kelly and Richard Lang for example that focus on different approaches and angles "towards" nonduality. That way you can find something that resonates with you and go deeper into that. For example I found Henry Shukman and Zen koan practice from the app that really struck me, probably would have never looked in that direction without it.

I get glimpses of nonduality sometimes but mainly I'm too busy dealing with my stages blue and orange shadows ha ha

Materialism is a belief, Nonduality means not two. Materialism seems true if believed, Nonduality is true wether believed or not.

This doesn't include precautions like testing, having a trip sitter, measuring dosages etc. This has more to do with things that I want to make sure I have done before choosing to experiment with psychedelics. I know this might seem like a lot (or perfectly reasonable) but since I'm waiting til I'm 25 to do psychedelics, I want to make sure I can do as much as I can between now and then to have a high quality trip. Be over 25: Need to have the prefrontal cortex developed. Don't want to mess up my neurological development. Have at least 2 years of mental stability. I don't want to see demons and shit. This means for 2 years there are: No anxiety attacks no depressive episodes healthy habits are in place exercising regularly be mindful of the content you consume Deal with most traumatic events and process them to where they don't hold you back or effect you Have basic survival dealt with in a sustainable/ conscious way: can financially support myself without being anxious about money in a job that I find fulfilling if not at the very least bearable have healthy and fulfilling relationships (both platonic and romantic) health wise I'm doing well and not on any medication that could interfere with psychedelics Be firmly into stage yellow in spiral dynamics and be firmly aware in the strategist and construct aware stages in the 9 stages of ego development Exhaust stage green tendencies Deal with any emotional hang ups from the previous stages Continue quality self education after college Educate yourself on mystical traditions, nonduality, and philosophy for at least a year familiarize with stage turquoise/ unitive aware stage and concepts watch Leo's videos on nonduality and psychedelic usage (been ignoring them for now because I'm simply not ready) Travel to a place where you can do this with the supervision of a professional and where this is legal could include/ mean visiting a shaman or doing it in a country where it is legal and regulated (don't want to deal with jail time or any complications that can arise in an uncontrolled environment) What do you guys think? Is there anything else that I should add to the list? Is there anything that seems a little much?

I got this in an email from the Diamond Approach today and thought some good points were made in relation to duality/non-duality Experiencing Nonduality "In the experience of nonduality, it is not as though physical reality were a dream emanating from it - that perception would still be dualistic. When duality is seen through, physical reality is imbued with the essential dimension, and the two become one. This gives the physical more reality, more substance, more existence, more meaning, more depth, and more dimensionality. When you look at people, they seem more substantial, and even their bodies appear more physical, in a sense. Every object and person has a concreteness and a definiteness that makes each appear more defined, more present, and more complete, because your experience of them includes the depth of the true existence. When everything is perceived as the Absolute, each atom, each form, has its depth. The Absolute not only underlies everything, but penetrates all manifestation. Depending upon which dimension you are experiencing, everything you perceive acquires the depth and beauty of that dimension." -A. H. Almaas, founder of the Diamond Approach, Facets of Unity, pg. 87 The known can place limits on our potential and possibility. How we envision the end of the spiritual journey or the enlightenment of the soul can pre-define what’s possible. The Diamond Approach doesn’t posit an ultimate reality, and the central methodology of the Diamond Approach is open and open-ended inquriy. These fundamentals keep everything wide open, allowing each soul to unfold according to its uniqueness, not some prescribed cookie-cutter reality intended for all. The openness to engaging experience where you are is more important than whether you happen to be in a dual or nondual state. Spiritual bypassing can happen otherwise. Read Full Blog Post Here https://online.diamondapproach.org/nonduality-allowing-experience-to-educate-inform/?utm_source=ontraport&utm_campaign=eNews&utm_medium=email&utm_term=eNews&utm_content=Nov21&0=

Yes of course all experience is in apparent duality. An experience of literal nonduality without that appearance is completely impossible. Experience needs experienced and experiencer. The thinker is what you refer to as "I", which is formless nothing. The thought is form which is fundamentally nothing so fundamentally is the subject. The pairing of this duality as a singular unit is total infinity.

So going forward should I keep theory to a minimum and take precautions to work on myself until I feel like I'm ready for direct experience? Maybe instead of looking into theory before, I should look at it later on after I have my own experience to go off of and can resonate with different traditions and see what makes sense to me(so that the exploration of different ideas comes from a place of resonance rather that me outsourcing experience to other sources)? I guess this was miscommunication on my part. I normally associate studying with exploring different points of view and I suppose your definition of sharing experiences. I would consider myself at the very beginning (as in barely scratching the surface) of the spiritual process as it relates to things like nonduality and mysticism. I'm guessing you think that I'm over thinking all of this ?

@BipolarGrowth Thanks so much for sharing this! Was really helpful to read. I skimmed chapters A&P through Conformity, and I sense that the stage I'm at is Equanimity, though I would need to read the book in more detail to know for sure. That said, the bliss/rapture/ecstasy states in A&P certainly have a lot of overlap with my psychedelic experiences. I pretty consistently have ego death experiences these days, even on relatively small doses, and often dissolve into what I can only describe as Infinite Mind where insights about Truth create a cosmic orgasm-like experience. Except it's not happening to Tucker and to a physical body (as those no longer exist in these states), it's just this abstract bliss that feels like God endlessly ejaculating (in a cosmic not physical sense lol). This last for hours until Consciousness slowly recreates a physical body and ego mind in which I as Tucker come back into form. Often the bliss remains for hours after I'm back in my body, and intense surges of energy course through my body as if Spirit is dancing me. Everything is in perfect harmony and flow, even my ego thoughts which can be witnessed and unconditionally loved. I mention all this to say that I suspect the "Dark Night" feelings are from going from Nonduality to Duality again, and from experiencing Bliss to Equanimity again. Put more bluntly, going from God to Tucker is a bit of a letdown hahaha, although within a day usually a sense of Equanimity returns. Perhaps this is the "Dark Night of Equanimity" that the writer briefly alludes to. My sense is that all these maps and models for meditation and awakening need to be researched and reevaluated through the lensing of psychedelics, as I suspect (though am no expert) that the the progression of insights and embodiment happen in unique ways that may not fully align with traditional awakening models. Let me know your thoughts, brother, and appreciate you taking the time to share your wisdom!

That is sort of a testimony, no offense I hope, as to what I suggested. You’re already under an impression there is a second source (might seem tediously semantical, but it isn’t) and that one could understand nonduality. That’s a big one so to speak, a colossal misnomer. You don’t want conjecture like that creeping into your foundation when you’re just getting started (IMO). I wouldn’t frame it up as letting go of sources. There is one source, and it is impossible to let it go. That might seem like a small point but imo it’s not at all. “Resourcing” or “multi-sourcing” is undermining of oneself but doesn’t initially readily seem so and makes equanimity harder down the path. I also wouldn’t frame as ‘study’. If you want to read someone’s book about their existential experiences, that’s great… but you’re not ‘studying’ it… they’re sharing experiences… and you’re interested in experiencing that sharing. ‘Studying’ (imo) is applicable to memorizing information for an exam, or similar situations. And direct experience isn’t reliable or unreliable, it’s simply direct experience. That, I would explore until there is not a single question remaining. Until you are so satisfied you’re bliss napping face down on the floor as an orgasmic pile of your infinite self. There isn’t really that line. Any studying is ‘in’ direct experience, or, is direct experience. Direct experience is not found in studying. Given those distinctions… and a great understanding of the emotional scale… I don’t really think you need a trip guide & facility. Advice wise, yes, absolutely, of course you should be safe and as conservative as possible, take every precaution possible, and utilize every resource available to you. Personally, I prefer a long weekend in a cabin in the woods alone. But, so to speak, my understanding of emotion is astute and crystal clear. You could think of that (if you will) as the actuality for what the belief ‘mental stability’ points to. Or maybe we are actually saying the same thing in that regard, idk.

I was thinking of using Leo's video as a source in addition to understanding nonduality. But I do understand the value behind direct experience (which is why I'm thinking of using psychedelics in the future anyway lol). To what extent do you think that's beneficial and to what extent should I let go of the sources and the study and rely on my direct experience? In your opinion, where do you think the line is best drawn and how do you know when you crossed that line?

This does feel realistic for me given where I'm at right now. I have been working my way up the spiral for about 3 years now and I have been at at least stage orange for about a decade (have since integrated much of it and moved on). I really want to say that I am currently yellow with a few green hang ups/ trigger points but if I'm going to be honest, I feel cocky just saying that lol. I do agree that people need to be at least orange to dip their feet in because (correctly if this sounds wrong), I feel like if a stage blue person did psychedelics, they would immediately either fall into demonization of the substance or fall deeper into their own religious dogma due to a lack of understanding around the theory of nonduality. But idk, there is a part of me that wants to urge people to at the very least wait til they dip into stage green to start experimenting. I feel like a lot of orange people tend to fall into the trap of being entertained by the cool colors instead of understanding and integrating things deeply (unless that's what they set out to do due to exposure to content like actualized.org). Over all, I'm under the general impression that the more conscious you are, the more you are likely to get out of the trip. These standards I wrote above are subject to change so I'm not being to rigid with them for my personal uses with the exception of the point regarding age and legality/safety. I am intrigued by the whole using psychedelics to a variety of mental health issues especially PTSD and drug addiction. Granted I'm still pretty new to all of this so feel free to correct me or get me more information. When it comes to drug addiction, I guess I would be most concerned about the effects of mixing substances in your body and how that sensitivity can differ from person to person. While this isn't related to addiction directly, I have friends who are on antidepressants. Normally, when a person is on antidepressants, it is highly advisable to avoid alcohol since alcohol can mess with your head and therefore interfere with the medication (to the point where it can cause seizures). This label is usually there for binge drinkers so usually, a couple drinks here and there aren't going to fuck you up. But for some people, even 2 drinks can cause some issues. I'm just using this as an example of how different drugs (prescribed or otherwise) can act within a person's body and how people should really think through things. As for both PTSD and addiction specifically, I feel like doing trips in a lab setting or medically monitored environment would be the most ideal choice but then again I don't know how people would go about doing that. I'm not for or against doing psychedelics when your life isn't together (if anything, I think you can gain a lot of healing from psychedelics) but I do want to lean on the side of caution since these aren't toys to mess around with. There is a video I watched a while back of this lade who took psychedelics and how that bad trip healed her eating disorder. She does a lot of content around eating disorders, the realities/misconceptions of them, the culture surrounding eating disorders, and her personal experiences. I thought it was pretty interesting and I recommend that people check it out:

@WokeBloke Experiencer is a duality. Nonduality means not two. There is no experiencer.

Literally true also, without needing to think about material survival. Nothingness cannot be experienced = no experience = "death". Total nonduality cannot be experienced, just as to see a dream you must seem to be inside the dream = no experience possible = "death".

Prerequisites Before Doing Psychedelics This doesn't include precautions like testing, having a trip sitter, measuring dosages etc. This has more to do with things that I want to make sure I have done before choosing to experiment. Be over 25: Need to have the prefrontal cortex developed. Don't want to mess up my neurological development. Have at least 2 years of mental stability. I don't want to see demons and shit. This means for 2 years there are: No anxiety attacks no depressive episodes healthy habits are in place exercising regularly be mindful of the content you consume Deal with most traumatic events and process them to where they don't hold you back or effect you Have basic survival dealt with in a sustainable/ conscious way: can financially support myself without being anxious about money in a job that I find fulfilling if not at the very least bearable have healthy and fulfilling relationships (both platonic and romantic) health wise I'm doing well and not on any medication that could interfere with psychedelics Be firmly into stage yellow in spiral dynamics and be firmly aware in the strategist and construct aware stages in the 9 stages of ego development Exhaust stage green tendencies Deal with any emotional hang ups from the previous stages Continue quality self education after college Educate yourself on mystical traditions, nonduality, and philosophy for at least a year familiarize with stage turquoise/ unitive aware stage and concepts watch Leo's videos on nonduality and psychedelic usage (been ignoring them for now because I'm simply not ready) Travel to a place where you can do this with the supervision of a professional and where this is legal could include/ mean visiting a shaman or doing it in a country where it is legal and regulated