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Lol ? I still think it's a word game ? yes I can say poo is eternal because energy is eternal. E=mc^2. Nothing ever dies. Everything is energy and that energy is god. Everything is god. Nothing ever dies. Energy never dissapears it just changes form. And the energy itself is always eternal. That way it make sense. To me this is just a wording problem. I feel buddhists are talking about the same thing just in a different language and I wanted to fight for their side a little bit to leverage the field i find your criticism of budhhism to be a bit unfair sometimes. To me "I am nothing" and "I am everything" means exacly the same thing. Edit. Nothingness is also energy. A primordial energy. Everything is energy. Everything is god. Everything is eternal.

@Leo Gura That's nice. I get this actually. Yeah it's true. It's true. I agree with everything you sayed I forgot what we're debating about ? The only thing I would put it differently is the wording. I wouldn't call changing impermenant reality - eternal. By definition it doesn't make sense to me. "Every moment is eternal even if it is fluid" yeah but it is nothingness that is eternal not the dancing energy. Dancing energy is temporary. That would be my only difference in percepective. Edit. And yes dancing energy is also nothingness because it comes from nothingness. And are of the same nature. It is one. But somehow it is not eternal. Because by definition if it is changing it is impermenant and not eternal.

No, there is an important insight you're missing here that I am communicating. And what I am saying does not contradict the highest teachers/teachings. You have been told by the best teachers that form = formlessness. You just lack the direct experience necessary to properly understand the teachers/teachings. Yeah, I know your position. And I am telling you that's an incomplete realization. A dog taking a shit on the sidewalk is essential to what you are. It's crucial that you see Yourself and the Absolute in that shitting dog. That is the whole point of spirituality! Again, you are holding a subtle duality here between Nothingness vs somethingness & change. To truly realize Nothingness is to realize that Nothingness is ever-changing Everythingness. The entire Creation is Nothingness, even as it is changing. And thereby you have separated yourself and God from change. Your position is silly because you say You/God are everything, except change is something "other" that has nothing to do with you. You ARE change. God is change. Nothingness is change.

@Leo Gura So maybe it's a matter of wording? Perhaps you're using the word absolute in the different meaning then most teachers. I believe nothingness is absolute, and never changing and perfect. Everything else is a flux. It comes from nothingness. The source of all things is nothingness. Thus changeful reality is not essential to what I am. Because when change happens in my essential nature nothing ever happens. Nothing ever happens to nothingness. Even if the entire creation would cease, nothingness would remain the same, thus it's absolute and changful reality is temporary and not essential to me. This makes sense to me at least.

What about the argument that if my hand dissapear I'm still here, witnessing my hand dissapearing? Wouldn't that prove that I'm much more then just the hand? Yes hand is a manifestation of consciouness but it's perhaps not the essence of what I am. All things that can perish are not essential to my being. So yes, everything is one, but not everything is eternal. Only nothingness is eternal and absolute and never changes and has no states or levels. And I am that. Other things are temporary, transient, has levels and what not and are still me, but not essentially. That's how I would frame it at least. Edit. Manifest and unmanifest. One is eternal another is temporary. Both are me. Yet one is essential another is not so. Thus, saying I'm nothing that is bound by time is quite appropriate imo.

You can't be aware of awareness directly became awareness is absolute literal nothingness. You have to use sensory input as a mirror to reflect back at what's observing them. Then you find nothingness.

If you really believed that you don't exist, then how would such a question come to your mind? When you cease to exist, everything becomes or turns to nothingness.

I found this paragraph tickled my philosophical bone. The core of the problem that you point out is really the question about what existence actually is. Is existence what Leo calls "direct experience" and nothing more than that? Or is existence an imagined continuity whereby the world carries on with or without your observation of it? Can both be possibly true at the same time? Direct experience is exactly what it says on the tin. Only things which are directly experienced can be said to be absolutely true, everything else is just good guesswork. So why is it then that when you directly re-experience that football hurtling towards you, it is in the place you expect it to be? Why is the world is consistent and hangs together following certain trajectories and laws? Unity. Everything is entangled with everything else. Above all the world seeks to be as highly correlated with itself as possible. The world in one sense is perfection, which means that there are no glitches or gaps, it's like the water in a river filling all the available space. When you stop observing, the whole of existence conspires to conserve the existence of what you just observed, so that it doesn't just disappear into nothingness. It's like a kind of hologram, everything is encoded everywhere into the surface of the glass plate of idealism. The sofa you're sitting is on is spread throughout the whole of existence: existence has a memory of its own. The existence of the sofa is intertwined with the existence of everything else, this is what creates persistence and consistency. That's because everything is a unity and there are no boundaries separating one thing from anything else. Peace and love ?

Telepathically communicated doesnt ring true, then again I dont know what you mean by it. First years I was just desperate to get into that state of nothingness since I viewes thing thru non dual lense (read Tolle and stuff back then). I kinda forgot about love part, let alone becoming human part and loving others, tought that was just unfortunate mistake that I came back to be me and was obsessed with non duality and tried to tune my experience toward that direction. Then after some years was more on a bliss trip as I had intense kundalini energy going for few years and tought I need to purge all impurities out of me, became very sensitive to everything and everyone. Got obsessed with getting back to that stage of love. Then some years of doing nothing and "purging" went by and I found myself quite burnt out and jaded on suffering. For years now I couldnt have fooled myself with Tolle's kind of views regarding suffering. God was not great nor was everything His will. He was actually very easily stomped on and forgotten, ridiciloud and crusified in suffering others. Scapegoated and killed in order to remain cathartic peace. A lot like in here peoples problems are seen as "so called problems" and their suffering is ridiculed and selfhood scapegoated rather than being a midstop for love to be shared. Growing to see these victim producing, scapegoat reguiring dynamics in world and in myself is whats been pulling me out of self centeredness. Started to see Jesus's story differently too. Dont think he was promoting solely some states of non dual awareness. He obiviously didnt come to be sacrificed to change God's attitude toward human but human attitude toward God. He allowed himself to be scapegoated and crucified to reveal to us that God (love) is complitelly non violent and reguires no sacrifices, revenge or blood. Bringing responsibility of violence projected to will of God back to us. Showing that its God who suffers as human, with human abd among human. And everything we do to for other we so to him. So to say rape is love and everything happening in world is will of God is obivious perversion of love to me. This can only been perverted in this way by stopping to be in relationship with God and claiming Godhood to oneself, assuming that ones own will is God's will. This is envy in essence "I want to become you even if it costs my selfhood". Envy I think is perversion of "I want to follow you and become like you". Anyway, with these things seen im challenged to become the endstop to reactivity and competitive, envious desire that leads to scapegoating, sacrified violence and sacrifice. Dynamics present in myself, forgiven and now challenged to do the same myself to others

No clue what it means for you for it to work. Trip heavily affected and in line with ideas youve heard from Leo before you started tripping? I did it when Leo was still talking about picking up chicks. Complite timeless nothingness without even sensory experience present. Then that void suddenly being filled with deepening love (after that trip I couldnt buy atheistic nor materialistic worldview I had). As that love deepened for what id describe as eternity, suddenly there was tought "I love you" (my girlfriend). After that, in that same deepening ocean of love my sense of self was slowly being built around that love relationship. Now the world came back with its shapes and I saw my room again. Some would say that this was the end of trip and for years I tought that is the case and that the point of spirituality is to get back to such state. Over the years ive started to see and interpret it differently, yes essentially I am a tought of God, an as that tought appeared God started a relationship with me. I dont see such toughts as indifferent attitude as you and so I interpret them differently. Also the trip ending and life continuing with challenges and suffering wasnt only the outcome of trip ending but also that love deepening. With a sole purpose for me to love others. "Love one another as I have loved you". That seems to me infinitely more difficult and revarding as keeping on getting high to try to get rid of myself to become God. Thats like Elon Musk not really digging us grimey hopeless, hard to love people here on earth and planning on moving to mars. So stretching myself daily in service for those in need I rid myself of self centerdness and in relation to those others I become my true self stronger by the day for we are like mirrors to eachother. During Meditation and psychedelic period I had not enought desire to help others, they were illusiory and just blind to how their ego causes all suffering (no communital or relational aspect or any other nuance there). I was just focusing on my experience and awareness expanding. Not finding myself anywhere. Yet I managed to remain very self centered. Giving away my inner peace in order to be present FOR others and serving something bigger than myself like that, serving God in those who are in need feels just expotentially more true to me. That way im not becoming an end stop to love, mercy or forgiveness like when I tought spirituality is about states of realisation but im challenged to pass it on. Forget hell, being challenged to love as ive been loved, thats horrible. Especially if I dont take the easy way out and call this life, others, and our suffering illusory. Ps. And thank you for not preaching. Idk why you tought you were in position to do that anyway even if I was in hights of spiritual perfection like you. Expressing your experience, your views, interpretations and ideas is conplitelly ok and im glad to hear about them. But you speaking with an authority of existence itself? Pfft..

I want to feel calm. I want to feel nothingness.

Update January 21, 2022. 3.30pm. I want to feel calm. I want to feel nothingness. I want to visualize death.

The issue with this topic is that , you don't really know 100% if it is true that there is one God who created it all and that he has revealed himself to different prophets through thousands of years, I would say that there is one Infinite God, which has no limits, but this is not a nothing as in a void or an impersonal nothingness. The bible is a special book and should not be dismissed just with a hand wave, that's pretty arrogant, especially when the actual book goes back thousands of years and it is a red thread in the whole book, God used prophets to communicate and made him self known. God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you’” (Exodus 3:14). Then Jesus comes along and says : Truly, truly, (D)I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never (E)see death.” 52 The Jews said to him, “Now we know that you have a demon! (F)Abraham died, as did the prophets, yet (G)you say, ‘If anyone keeps my word, he will never (H)taste death.’ 53 (I)Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you make yourself out to be?” 54 Jesus answered, (J)“If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. (K)It is my Father who glorifies me, (L)of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’[a] 55 But (M)you have not known him. (N)I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be (O)a liar (P)like you, but I do know him and I keep his word. 56 (Q)Your father Abraham (R)rejoiced (S)that he would see my day. (T)He saw it and was glad.” 57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”[b] 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, (U) I AM. This God , this I AM , is not some impersonal force, or Brahman , or the Void of nothingness. Its the personal God who : I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. God created ex nihilo, out of nothing, there was not eternal matter or anything else besides God, and neither was the Universe, so this is not panentheism, the universe is contingent if we go the philosophical route, something transcends it and brings it into being. Also one important quote is this from Paul in Romans : Romans 1:20, KJV: "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" How could Jesus see that Abraham rejoiced? When Jesus wasnt born yet, and yet he appeared to Abraham. Also one interesting thing is that, the Christian tradition have produced alot of saints who lay down their life for this cause or did good things in the community. Also check out hesychasm ( to keep stillness ) which the Eastern Orthodox Church used to reach God, it is prayer and a gathering of the mind in order to reach Theosis ( Making Divine ), becoming deified. The Greek and Eastern fathers of the Church is a profound insight into mysticism and theosis, especially the monks of Mount Athos and St Gregory Palamas and Gregory of Nyssa and St Symeon the new theologian and Pseudo-dionysius the areopagite. And you have the desert fathers from egypt and so forth, Christian tradition has it ALL, but I only read the eastern fathers and the orthodox church, the others is not that interesting, but there is some profound Western mystics as well , Nicholas of Cusa , St John of the Cross , St Teresa of Avila etc, and you have one of the greatest philosophers of all time in thr Christian tradition which teachings holds to this day, St Thomas Aquinas. There is a gold mine within the tradition, thats why I recommend the orthodox teachings and the eastern fathers.

infinity can produce one solely this way. first infinity of seperates forms nothingness. 0 = 1-1+2-2+3-3.. and so on and from here we add a 1 to both side 1= 1+1-1+2-2+3-3... then since 2 = 1+1 and -2 = -1-1 we can get 1 = (1-1)+ ((1-1 )+ (1-1)) from the twos and we do that with the threes and we continue doing that into infinity and we get a 1 standing alone out of nothingness and infinity, so yeah, i guess you can say 1 = inifnity if a numerical answer is what you were asking for

A few days ago I tripped again after taking a very long break from psychedelics. I was afraid to try psychedelics again due to a bad trip I had a year ago where I completely lost touch with reality and put myself in serious danger and ultimately ended up in hospital. I've done a lot of meditation and self development since then and decided to give them a try once again. I took a small 100ug dose of LSD and stayed in my room. I immediately felt intense anxiety due to what happened last time so I went to my room and lay in my bed. The anxiety got extremely intense, my heart started beating very hard and I felt convinced that I was going to die, instead of panicking, I decided to try a technique I learned doing strong determination sitting where I just sat and faced the immense fear head on. What followed was a strong ego death and god realisation experience. I'm still trying to process and integrate the trip at the moment but I wrote down my insights while on the comedown: All my problems stem from an illusory image of myself that isn’t real! It’s all conceptual but made to feel like it’s real using trickery. This illusory self is constantly compared to others and judged. As long as I am identified with this illusory image, I will always feel inadequate and unworthy of love. The illusory image is the root of all my anxiety, social and otherwise. I am love! I am the love which is the underlying being of all of reality! All of reality is just a dream I am having! We fear death because we fear nothingness, however the nothingness is actually love! I am worthy of being loved for just being the way I am! I was raised to believe that I am unworthy in my default state, and I have to change myself and achieve certain goals to be worthy of love. This means I always see myself as never being good enough and I have to be more confident, masculine, intelligent, disciplined, attractive popular etc so that I can be worthy. Our society constantly reinforces this idea which contributes to so much dysfunction. All my efforts to try to somehow try to improve myself so that I can be loved are futile and only serve to reinforce my illusory self. The illusory self can't be loved because it doesn’t exist!! My true self is always worthy of love because it IS love! I am constantly seeking love from the external world. I try and get it in the form of other peoples approval, sex, relationships, success, drugs, social media and all my other addictions. Even my spiritual work is an attempt to get love from some external god or entity in the future. I will never find love as long as I am looking in the material world because I am looking away from myself. All the love I need is in the present moment. Strong determination sitting is extremely effective. It allowed me to push past my fear of death so that I could let go of my illusory self. I’m so much stronger now because of it. My edgy and dark humour is an unconscious mechanism to maintain a part of my ego which feels like an outcast and a freak born from past experiences. I keep using messed up humour to reinforce my outcast ego and pessimistic worldview. This dark humour is detrimental as it keeps me from connecting with others. Its sort of like an unconscious way of pushing people away from me so I can maintain my ego identity as an outcast or freak.

I think no-self is when you become nothingness, and understand that everything "you" is a changing appearance just like all appearances, with no static thing to actually grasp whatsoever. It's like an experiential form of neti-neti to literal nothingness. I think you described something like an out of body experience, lost boundary between self and other.

I believe if total disidentification were to happen. In other words, the realization that I'm pure awareness, nothingness dawned in you. Personal identity would collapse. And without identity all thinking would collapse with it. Because identity is the cause of all thinking actually. So to answer the question, if you achieve one, you get the other aswell. if you disidentify from thinking thoughts will stop, and if you stop thinking, disidentification will happen. They kinda go together imo. I would argue that to be the case. Don't know really.

You mean "being" as opposed to "knowing" right? I know that nothingness cannot be known or observed except by being it. I find I can verbalize it, though.

It's actually not, because a "mirror" exists as form. You have to use form as a mirror to find that what is perceiving the forms is literally nothingness. You perceive nothing by BEING it. It's the only way nothingness can be experienced, by using the presence of somethingness.

how do you guys engage with a girl emotionally while being blasted with music in a nightclub ? I remember @Leo Gura said to work on your voice and tone I haven't been in a club for years and today I went to one, talked to some girls but every time I talk to a girl, she's like "ha" ? because she can't hear the shit I'm saying. I felt like yelling just so that the girls can hear me but that felt forced I prefer day game because at least I can hear the shit that is being said, and it's less cliche to hit on her and I don't know how to put my finger on it but it just feels better to do day game for me How do you guys manage loud nightclubs? I will try it again I was dancing most of the night by myself as nothingness, building state and I felt like I'm in heaven expressing my true nature in dancing spontaneously. Lol I can explain it in different ways. There was this girl that told me to buy her a drink for a kiss but I kinda told her to fuck off implicitly ( without actually saying that phrase) it was a college party and I honestly felt surrounded by kids even though I'm 23 Overall I felt good because I talked to few girls, danced so beautifully and experienced what's like to be in a night club after so many years. I had other insights while there but let me keep it short and sweet. and no I don't and didn't drink.

Hey brother. I have had over 50 trips. My last trip were 10 and 8 gr dried shrooms. I become a wolf, tree, wire, mushroom and experienced nothingness, infinite nothingness, god realization, everything was me, infinite love etc (anything you can imagene to experience). However, if you are looking for enlightenment, it is completely opposite because in enlightenment you realize that experiencer was never there so it is realization now is the source and before birth. Because, real nothingness or enlightenment can not be experienced because the experiencer was never exist. Therefore, any psychedelics you take you can not be enlightened, because thought process including the thought of experiencing still running. Additionally, do not ever say i wish i couldnt take it, because there is no you to have past and future. Just now is the source. Never wish and never will.

So this is a new (or new old) way to try to conceptualize reality and make sense of it. The distinctions here are arbitrary and completely relative but nevertheless here we go. There is basically only two things in all of existence.. Forms and formlessness. That's it. There isn't and never was and never will be anything else. The forms ALWAYS are limited and impermanent. The formless ONLY is unlimited and permanent. The two Are actually identical but it's hard for the mind to make sense of that (how could these forms be formless?). Instead try to think of it this way.. The formless is the container of forms. You might ask "where are all these forms taking place"? "where does existence happening"? And the answer is really nowhere.. Reality is happening inside of nothingness. If we erase all forms from existence.. What's left? Only pure formlessness. Pure nothingness. So that's like what's underneath all forms. Or the container of all forms.. The original state that then comes different forms and appear inside of it. So this present moment that's happening right now is 50 % forms and 50 % formlessness. We usually don't think of it this way.. We think "it's just forms it's just reality where is this formlessness?". Lol ofcourse you can't see it because it's not a form. It has no qualities whatsoever and that's precisely why and how it is present everywhere and every when yet you can't see it.. Because you can only see forms. But how come forms are present without a container? There must be a container that contains all these forms and it can't be anything else but formlessness. Think about an empty glass that is necessary to have some water or any substance inside of it. But instead what we have here is not an empty "glass".. But rather pure emptiness. Now you might ask.."where did all these forms come from then"? Here there is really no answer. It's pure magic. But the trick is that ultimately all forms appear and disappear.. They are just like dreams or hallucinations.. Forever appearing and disappearing. There is no rational explanation whatsoever why forms are here (the answer is actually that form is formlessness but it's near impossible to make sense of it rationally without a mystical experience). But the only way to relate to it is by understanding that all forms are ultimately a temporary passing show that means absolutely nothing and was never ought to be anything substantial or to form a "reality". The only full realness is to the all mighty nothingness.

Yes. During meditation, I also hang on words often, when i know what should i experience, because i read a lot about spirituality and i hang on knowledge to much. For example my thoughts are "everything arises from nothingness, you are that, you are nothingness" and that's just a thought, not a truth! Just observe that, and the real experience shall come, as soon as your thoughts goes away. Truth is not a word or concept!

Nothingness gives you the god. love gives you the religion or moral law=religion =ethics. You must have breakthrough to nothingness and love in order to comprehend it.

Appearance is within reality. Relative stuff is within reality. There is difference... No appearance of difference = nothingness, without even an appearance of somethingness. Nothingness and somethingness is already an appearing difference and is how existence even appears at all point blank. A baby sees color X and Y the moment it is born. It doesn't even know what color or seeing is. The idea some people have is that if they just stop thinking thoughts and simply experience, magically all contrast vanishes. Not only do they see the truth that "this is all mind", but it just straight up vanishes.