Spiral Dynamics Stage Green Examples Mega-Thread

[Key Elements]

45 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Key Elements To me, it seems like you are categorizing relationships. My mind doesn’t really work like that. For example, I was in a one year open relationship that went deeper and more intimate than an 11 year monogamous relationship I was in. Yet in some respects, the 11 year relationship was deeper and more intimate. 

 

No I'm not categorizing; it's just my way of explaining. How else am I going to explain it and ask questions?

I don't point fingers. I don't have issues with any type of relationships, not even marriage within family, which is considered to be the biggest taboo in the US.

[Forestluv]

@Key Elements

“Strangers / acquaintances, friends / good friends, best friends / BFFs”

This seems like categories to me. Or a linear continuum. I guess it makes casual conversation more convinient, yet when we dig deeper, it breaks down for me.

[Key Elements]

39 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Key Elements

“Strangers / acquaintances, friends / good friends, best friends / BFFs”

This seems like categories to me. Or a linear continuum. I guess it makes casual conversation more convinient, yet when we dig deeper, it breaks down for me.

Yes, exactly. I don't know how else to put it into words.

[Key Elements]

@Serotoninluv ok...I got it. (I think.) Here's one way to transend relationship in a polyamory. You have 2 married couples:

husband (1) & wife (1)

husband (2) & wife (2)

h(1) + w(2) = permanent bf/gf

h(2) + w(1) = permanent bf/gf

Ok, done. Closed relationship forever.

 

[Forestluv]

13 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

Yes, exactly. I don't know how else to put it into words.

One cool thing about hanging with the poly crowd was that they used terms I had no reference for: primary, secondary, connection, comet, hierarchical and egalitarian modes of relationships. I had no preconceived notions and I couldn’t assume anything. I was like “hang on, what does that term mean for you?”.

[Key Elements]

@Serotoninluv I just tried to answer my own question. 

[Forestluv]

@Key Elements Once someone steps outside of monogamy, there are so many possible forms of poly. I was amazed by the diversity of poly styles. And I was only exposed to a handful.

There were different combinations. It’s another language / world. Primaries, secondaries, exogamy, closed swinging, free agents, solo poly, monamory, monogamish, open networks, parallel poly, polycule, relationship anarchy, relationship orientation. . . and on and on. 

[Key Elements]

@Serotoninluv do any of the forms become permanent? 

[Forestluv]

13 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

@Serotoninluv do any of the forms become permanent? 

I’d say it’s similiar to mongamy in that respect. Sometimes it turns out to be a relatively long-term relationship, other times a relatively short term relationship.

I’m not sure what you mean by permanent. I’ve never heard that term used in relationships before.

[Key Elements]

44 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I’m not sure what you mean by permanent. I’ve never heard that term used in relationships before.

You know, does it last a lifetime? "Till death do we part." I'm not trying to sound "traditional."

[Forestluv]

12 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

You know, does it last a lifetime? "Till death do we part." I'm not trying to sound "traditional."

Oh. I suppose various forms of relationships can have an intention of being permanent, it just depends on the couple. I imagine many poly people hope for permanence between one or more of their connections. There are so many possibilities in poly. It is much more flexible and fluid than monogamy. Most couples and networks seemed to make up some of their own rules that worked for them. Communication and agreement of all involved seemed really important.

[Elisabeth]

4 hours ago, Key Elements said:

You know, does it last a lifetime? "Till death do we part." I'm not trying to sound "traditional."

It can happen.

A person can try all the different forms (or not), and then settle for monogamy. Or a 3 people "V" configuration (closed or open to occasionally dating others). Or a quad like you described (although I don't know any in person or online). Or having a spouse and a bff with whom you're occasionally-sexual. Or decide to not have a spouse at all.

But again I ask you: should lifelong be a goal? Or is it ok to, for instance, divorce when kids fly out of nest and you develop new interest, new standards, a new lifestyle? Doesn't that happen in monogamous relationships whether the people intend it or not? Can you, in any way, absolutely say this won't happen to you when you're committing to marriage? Can you ask that promise from another person?

Don't get me wrong, if I divorced someone after 20 years of raising kids together, it would be devastating. I would certainly hope that people who've managed that are close enough to find a new direction in life together. But sometimes, despite all effort, that doesn't happen.

My ever-favorite poster on polyamory.com says, that "till death do us part" means for her physical death, or the death of the spiritual union. If two people no longer want to be committed, it is dead spiritually. Why hold on. (She's happily married and at the moment closed.)

Polyamory IS time-consuming and heartbreak doesn't hurt less because you have other partners. So even people who feel deeply polyamorously seek stability at some points in their life. People can decide to close their relationship (regardless of how many people are in it - close means not dating anyone new) when caring for kids or elderly parents, when having work stress, when not having enough reason to date, when dealing with trauma, when they don't have the bandwidth for another relationship. A relationship can stay closed for ten years and then reopen again when circumstances change. It's a flexible arrangement.

So yes, people do settle down, and often in a traditional marriage-like form (or a three-people arrangement, these can be fairly stable). But they don't feel like they have to. And I would argue that, since they had to both deal with their fears and get intentional about how they negotiate their relationship agreements, their approach to the 'marriage' is changed forever.

P.S. We've hijacked Leo's thread, but I guess at least we're still a good example of Green

Edited September 5, 2018 by Elisabeth

[Key Elements]

7 hours ago, Elisabeth said:

But again I ask you: should lifelong be a goal? Or is it ok to, for instance, divorce when kids fly out of nest and you develop new interest, new standards, a new lifestyle? Doesn't that happen in monogamous relationships whether the people intend it or not? Can you, in any way, absolutely say this won't happen to you when you're committing to marriage? Can you ask that promise from another person?

Don't get me wrong, if I divorced someone after 20 years of raising kids together, it would be devastating.

Polyamory IS time-consuming and heartbreak doesn't hurt less because you have other partners.

Of course, divorce can happen after 20+ yrs with children in a monogamous relationship. I have no doubts about this being a possibility. But look, it doesn't have to hurt emotionally at all. Why should it?

My point to all of this is, whatever relationship you're in, are you going to find the time to do the real work in your life? Which is life purpose + your spiritual path. If you keep going for new relationships, I bet you won't. You'll keep chasing relationships and adjusting. By the end of the life, you may be thinking, what have I given to the world? Because the actual truth is, all is one.

 

7 hours ago, Elisabeth said:

P.S. We've hijacked Leo's thread, but I guess at least we're still a good example of Green

@Serotoninluv @Elisabeth Thank you both for all the info.

For a long, long, long time, ppl in the relationship area have been talking about polyamory, and I didn't know what it is. I just thought it's polygamy, even when I looked it up. But then, I had second thoughts. I'm like, "wait a minute...this is not polygamy."

[Elisabeth]

2 hours ago, Key Elements said:

My point to all of this is, whatever relationship you're in, are you going to find the time to do the real work in your life? Which is life purpose + your spiritual path. If you keep going for new relationships, I bet you won't. You'll keep chasing relationships and adjusting. By the end of the life, you may be thinking, what have I given to the world? Because the actual truth is, all is one.

1

Thas isn't quite a fair in a discussion about relationship shape, because most people won't do real work. Chasing the new and shiny in poly, or rotting in monogamous codependecy... Poly poeple tend to be somewhat self-actualizig, but I don't think being poly or not is in any way correlated with taking life-purpose and spirituality seriously.  

[Key Elements]

 

[Forestluv]

17 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

 

That is so awesome!!! And very romantic too!! 

[Key Elements]

@Serotoninluv

"The birds are my DJs." -Ralph Smart, Infinite Waters 

I agree with the quote. Even their mating songs sound better than pop stars or any singers in the world. I could listen to them all day.

Listening to birds could be a technique to help in reducing stress or not being so attached to music or social media. 

Too bad it's copying a chainsaw.

[Brittany]

 

[Brittany]

 

[Forestluv]

@Brittany Mr. Rogers was a green pioneer for inclusion, empathy and love ❤️