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@Vincent S Glad I can help. Like I told judy you wasn’t infinity or god before you were born, meaning god can not exist. Nothingness comes before and after everything. Confusion isn’t good unless you want to keep people listening .

Most within? But, you are talking about the most without lol. Don't take that too seriously, I understand your point. Nothingness IS God. They are not separate or should I say Nothingness is the womb in which Infinite potential is birthed from. To be birthed from means to be a part of. I think the term God is more the issue here because when we pull back all the layers God is just a human concept. But, everything we are talking about is very difficult to put down in language. God is just a filler word for the sake of communication. Even if we separate the two God/Nothing and call Nothing the floor. Then Nothing is now the concept of God. For it is the thing that created everything for lack of a better term. Honestly most of what you are saying is fine besides the separation of these two things.

@Nos7algiK Well deep doesn’t mean above or more than. It just means the most within. And if god and all of existence itself can have a no self experience or go to sleep like we can, then that means nothingness is the most within. I’m not misunderstanding, if someone thinks nothingness is apart of god, then they don’t realize god and existence itself can go away. If we go away and we become god, then when god goes away it becomes nothingness. Making it the deepest.

@Nahm Eh you’re mixing it up with empty space. If god can stop existing, then nothingness obscures god. All of existence can have a no self experience. And I don’t mean that in the sense of blackness or emptiness is covering it up, I mean completely not exist. Like when you go to sleep you go away, yet you don’t experience anything and time skips. Well when you go deep enough you can do that as god, and you can’t experience it but come back and realize it happened. So, it’s the deepest realization.

End of beingness is the final cessation I think. There's utter nothingness. Then there's beingness/presence/consciousness. Then out of that consciousness creation happens. That's the explanation given by mooji. I hope I got it right ?

@Nos7algiK I’m not weaponizing anything. You’re just not getting my elaboration. I’m just using the closest word we have to explain it. The word nothing wouldn’t exist if it didn’t point somewhere (or nowhere). God is an experience, but nothingness can only be realized. But you can’t experience nothing. When you go deep enough as god, all of existence will go away like when you go to sleep, and then come back. You’ll realize it happened, like when you go to sleep, but you won’t experience it, like when you go to sleep. And then you realize nothingness is the deepest realization because it’s the only way god can not exists. Non existence.

Yeah, sounds like a typical budhhist definition of cessation. Where all experience dissapears. A dip into a nibbana. In some schools they say one doesn't even have to go through god to enter nibbana. It's possible to skip it and go straight to nothingness. Or you can use god as a stepping stone to go to nirvana. Just adding some thoughs here

You are weaponizing dualistic language. But, what we are pointing to is much like Russian dolls. At it's core in a Russian doll there is nothing. "Outside" that nothing is the doll(God). Outside God there is nothing. Outside that nothing is another doll "God". This goes on forever, but there must be a final answer right? What is the biggest concept of them all? Is the doll the ultimate ground or is there more nothing outside that ground? There will always be more to see as we increase the scope of our consciousness. There is no answer or should I say the answer isn't set in duality this/that. The idea of a Russian doll already implies it's nothingness both inside and out. They are one in the same but even a Russian doll (God) isn't the most accurate term for what we are pointing to.

@Judy2 Yes. That’s how you can take it back. And it’s deeper than god because if god can go away, then nothingness is the only thing that can be deeper. And because god can not exist anymore, that makes it more than just a part of god. Beyond god.

@Salvijus Im confident it is what they’re talking about, enlightened masters, and that’s why they say they can’t explain it in words. Because when they do, people believe that they’ve attained it after experiencing emptiness. That’s why I can tell people that are saying nothingness is just a part of god or that god is the ultimate realization just haven’t realized true nothingness yet, just emptiness and infinity. And when they go through formlessness and infinity, they think “this state is what they meant!” And that you can experience it. You can’t experience it, only realize it happened. Leo also said everything is a state, making me believe he hasn’t realized it either. They call it the stateless state, because it isn’t a state. At all. God goes away. That’s why they say atman and Brahman. God is the ultimate atman. And just like everything else there’s a pendulum so there is a final Brahman. True enlightenment is post god realization when nothing exists, and then comes back.

So I am sorry guys for not engaging with you or responding to you in this thread I thought I have successfully temporarily suspended my problems and engaged in actively trying to fix them but I thought now I might open up here again since this seems to be a reoccurring issue for which I am deeply embedded and reminded of because of the guilt I feel for wasting my potential as a teen and young adult in the past five years. I will open up here with the emotional, anger, and mood issues I am facing here with myself and some reoccurring psychosomatic issues for the past several years: ''I am currently engaged still and bound up in a very toxic codependent family relationship with my only dad (after my mother has passed away when I was a kid) without gaining a modicum of financial independence for myself or being currently unemployed since I am studying and trying to wound up some subjects at faculty and trying to decide and make a decision will I still be going to faculty after all or will try to enlist in a college for social work that recognizes the exams I passed up until now on sociology and to before that attempt to find some part-time job, so I can get a revenue stream that will be my own, and not relying exclusively upon a family pension from my deceased mother's work internship as a programmer at a bank in Canada and a brief part-time as an accountant at the postal service here in my home country that I get for being a regular student at faculty or any higher education institution starting that lasts until I turn 26 while I am still at faculty or college, that my dad uses to cover part of his life and apartment bill expenses, since he has an irreuglar not stable income (income by performance) as German and English teacher in a private school via his temporary several months renewable contracts. So I am trying to see to pass some more exams here in the winter period but my long term prospects for remaining on this state faculty are called into question, I am feeling that it would be a dragged out and wasteful affair only for the sake of keeping the pension income from the state and that I can retain for the next two years anyway by enrolling into this private college for social work. Anyways what worries me to most is the fact that I haven't changed my habits enough (I still have problems falling asleep at night late, even after I meditate, I would wake up at 3 or 4 am after having some nightmares (like insects, centipedes walking over my arms, biting and eating me) and wouldn't fall asleep till early in the morning when the sun comes up), and would feel casual fatigue and profound tiredness during the day at noon and would have to lay down and sleep for half an hour or an hour until I feel I've drowned into nothingness after the felt emotional fatigue, turmoil, and emptiness I would feel during the day and I feel sometimes so tired at that point that I don't feel I have the strenght to last meditating for 30 minutes and that during that I would just roll over or fall asleep afterward anyway. So the point of me writing this all is to ask should be guided by my feelings in pursuing a certain course of action for my life and not take into account the insecurities and the needs of others like my dad's (who would still receive the pension regardless if I would enroll into this private college for two more years) I have until summer when the entrance exam for this is coming up to decide and I feel I have to pass a few exams here in the winter period to prove I am really serious about this and to find some part-time job with a steady income to cover a part of my expenses left for this faculty and for the private college. Also, I haven't mentioned it in detail but I will the severed bonds and relationships with my other relatives and grandparents from my mother's side that I feel that I need to heal, rekindle and regain their trust again after I acted passively, uninterestedly and didn't call them to ask them how they are doing and how are they (didn't call my aunt to congratulate her on her birthday in the summer) towards them for several months now, which I feel an obligation towards especially my step sister to whom I feel a brotherly duty towards to somehow help her in the future, when she, for example, enrolls into a faculty here in Belgrade when she is old enough, and friends (one from highschool and two girls who I've met in faculty) who were kind and caring enough to offer me their assistance with a job and advice for my mental health problems this past and last year especially with the Covid outbreak lockdown situation, online courses have done independently, my grandfather who I've seen a role model and guide for life difficulties and independence passing away, and my mother's passing away fifteenth aniversary, that I betrayed and lost their trust by not calling them back and answering them while I was in a self-imposed isolation during the start of my autumn semester at the fourth year at faculty, that I am trying to see now to how to make it up with them, regain their trust in me and for them to forgive me and give a second chance (they are on the latest of the list of people I haven't called back and answered back for a long time now in some cases months in others a year has passed (them being my sociology professor from highschool and my other relatives sister) that I feel for my sake I should try to rekindle my relationship with and to ask them for their forgiveness and for them to regain trust in me by showing them I've changed and have overcome my selfish and unheatlhy patterns of caring and trying to love nobody but myself). Thanks for hearing me out this is just the tip of the iceberg of things I feel bad and guilty about and that I am losing sleepover, and others being my failed perception of my personal life purpose that I need to somehow repay a debt towards, the failure towards the perceived expectations of people who've I looked towards as role models and heroes through the in comparison to my own state, achievements and actions up until this point in my their own Herculean feats and achievements they made for their own lives for my own life as being an evolving continuation of their successes and ancestors who made possible and leftover for me the cushiness and relative financial securities that I enjoyed through their own strivings, achievements and successes in their own lives and the mission of my soul on this Earth, which I've been thinking and contemplating about and will discuss here more in detail if that thread wouldn't be more appropriate for the Life Purpose Issues Subsection of the Forum.''

@BipolarGrowth I can’t watch it right now but I know frank yang has said before there’s one more emptiness after god. I’m not sure if it’s the true nothingness that you can’t really personally experience, or the void, but either way he’s on to something. True enlightenment is realizing there is nothing beyond infinity, and actually realizing that true nothingness.

@Shin He talked about the void that you can experience, but the fact that you experience it means it’s something and not nothing. Nothing is separate from god, nothing is deeper than god, so the only thing separate from god is nothingness, which you can realize and it’s the deepest realization because “nothing is deeper than god.” I feel like you’ll never comprehend what I’m saying though, and just keep thinking about empty space or blackness that you can experience. You guys even said yourselves without realizing it, nothing can be deeper than god. That’s right, so true nothingness is it.

@OneHandClap You’re the only one that understands what I mean whether intellectual or through realization. They keep smarting off even though it goes over their heads, that we’re not just talking about empty space, or infinity, but true nothingness which the mind can’t comprehend. It’s funny how they even say themselves there is NOTHING outside of god, without realizing it because they keep thinking about emptiness. And it’s funny that people get kicked for disagreeing with the main teaching, and then get so upset when people call it a cult. That’s literally as controlling as a cult can get. Imagine if it was a real life commune, imagine people getting verbally abused and ran out of the commune, or even getting executed if their were no laws. If we get kicked that just gives more evidence the place runs like a cult.

@Shin I repeated them so many times. That nothingness is nothingness and The only thing separate from god or reality is nothingness, and if you think it’s not possible you either haven’t realized true nothingness, or you don’t understand the meaning and think it just means empty space. Or a void form of god. No, god and reality both exist, so they are not part of nonexistence. And for the people saying they are two sides of the same coin, no they are not. Nothingness is nothingness and it doesn’t exist. Anything else is a thing that’s part of existence, even infinity. There can literally be NOTHING outside of infinity because it goes on and on forever, so the only thing that can be is NOTHING. Not empty space, because that would mean reality ends. No, absolutely nothing.

@Shin Me: No you can’t be nothing. Nothingness is nothingness You: don’t you see how dumb that statement is? Nothingness wouldn’t be nothingness if you were nothing! You can’t be nothing. But god is everything (a thing) which nothing is apart of! Do you see the irony? You’re arguing against stuff I didn’t even say while what I actually say goes over your head.

Can't you see how dumb that statement is. If you're truly nothing, then nothing would be happening at all, not even in appearance. But something IS happening, so this nothingness thing is utter stupidity. There IS a component of nothingness to the Truth, but it's only half of the equation. You've seen half of the equation and aren't open to the idea that your understanding of reality could be partial, no, you are 100% bulletproof right in your head, that's being closed minded and dogmatic.

@Shin He should. Lol Ik you’re joking but no you can’t be nothingness, otherwise it wouldn’t be nothingness. If nothingness was part of god that would make it a thing.

@Gregory1 Yeah you believe that lmao here I’ll imagine that you can prove it to me. Go ahead. But no, nothingness isn’t apart of god because that would make it a thing. You’re not understanding nothingness.

But wait. There's no self to be GOD, no self to be nothingness. No self to be self and no self to be no self. There's not even a self to say there's no self to be no self. Of course, no self has to make sure not to forget to add the word 'apparently".

You're nothingness, stop being stupid. You should be ashamed of yourself for thinking otherwise.

because belief itself is truth that arises form from nothingness

My journey started 4 years ago, rather involuntarily. I basically thought on one day (I was 19 years old) that I was dying, accompanied by suicidal thoughts that didn't come from a place of true love, they just appeared out of nowhere whilst a part of the brain felt like it broke. The security-web of the ever-present, ignorant, unconscious belief patterns were within one day shattered into nothingness. Pain and suffering were on their peak. I was losing my mind, I was completely utterly broken to the point I didn't believe in sanity anymore. I was just there. I couldn't pinpoint who was there. It was just me. I faced my own death, not one time, not two times, the journey was filled with dozen times of letting go of "self-referential thoughts", everything that was left then was just nothing but presence. If anyone goes through something similar, trust in the process, trust the love. I know what it's like when you fear yourself, when you think and believe that you don't exist. I didnt know what happened, but everytime presence shines through, I know what I am, who I am, with an unshakable trust in Love and my Self.

It is truly amazing that there still are so many people on all these forums that talk about being spiritual, that we are just imagined beings, that this reality is not physical at all, that this is just a dream state, "we are all God", this is nothing but nothingness, Love is all you need, etc……. And yet these very same people run back to there little EGO lives full of Fear, Hate, and Anger if someone doesn’t cooperate in the Mass Collective Madness! OR, If someone has a different POV. This Pandemic is not about Pro-vax or Anti Vax, Democrat or Republican etc…. It’s about facing your fears and asking yourself, why are we individually and collectively creating this Pandemic and this Madness? That’s the Meta question! If you truly believe you are Nothingness, Absolute God, that this is just a dream etc. Then what’s the problem? Walk your talk, and stop pointing the finger! Just sharing a few thoughts, ideas, and beliefs!

A nonrealization or nonexperience Nothingness ❤