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Part of Actualizing yourself is learning about the spiritualities around the world. One interesting spirituality is pythagoreanism, which takes numbers as god. Pythagoreans are basically the ultimate nerds. From wikipedia: Pythagoreanism originated in the 6th century BC, based on the teachings and beliefs held by Pythagoras and his followers, the Pythagoreans, who were considerably influenced by mathematics and mysticism. Later revivals of Pythagorean doctrines led to what is now called Neopythagoreanism or Neoplatonism. Pythagorean ideas exercised a marked influence on Aristotle, and Plato, and through them, all of Western philosophy. These days, it's hard to find pythagoreans out and about. The closest thing possible are the abstract mathematicians in some universities. They're not as crazy as the O.G. Pythagkreans, but if you press them hard enough, they will reveal personal beliefs that are way crazier than the existence of trolls, goblins, or fairies. The perennial philosophy is that: Absolute Truth = Undefined = You = God = Absolute Infinity = Zero And the conclusions of the pythagoreans were no different from those of other mystics. It just happens to be that they reached their enlightenment through math. That is why I consider them full fledged spiritual practitioners in the vein of hardcore buddhists. I mean would you rather sit for 4 hour of zazen or 4 hours of high level calculus? The cool thing about the pythagoreans (or their modern equivalents) is that they bear the truth out out in clear terms. I mean, when it comes to talking about stuff, math is about as clear and logical as it gets. But most people don't grasp what's going on because the implications of math are too insane. That is, normal people would rather feel comfortable than accept the straight up Truth. Thats why pythagoreans were so fucking hard core. Take a pencil and a piece of paper and follow along to see what I mean. ------ Step 1: 0 = 0 Basic level stuff here. Step 2: 0 = 1-1 = (1-1) = 0 Nothing too crazy. Just create and destroy to return to the same place. We can do this as much as we want. Step 3: 0 = 1-1+1-1+1-1... = 0 In case you're confused, let's add brackets to make things easier to look at. 0 = 1-1+1-1+1-1... = (1-1)+(1-1)+(1-1)... = (0) + (0) + (0) + (0).... = 0 We still end up with Create and destroy, create and destroy, create and destroy... Brackets are arbitrary... we can put brackets however we'd like. Step 4: 1-1+1-1+1-1... = (1-1)+(1-1)+(1-1)... = 1+(-1 +1)+(-1+1)... All I did was change the position of one of the brackets -- nothing that breaks the rules of mathematics. Step 5: 1+(-1 +1)+(-1+1)... = 1+(0)+(0)+(0)... Wait a minute. This is starting to get fishy... Step 6: 0 = (1-1)+(1-1)+(1-1)... = 1+(-1 +1)+(-1+1)... = 1+(0)+(0)+(0)... = 1 No... That can't be right... Let me check that again... That would mean... Step 7: 0 = 1 No. It can't be! ----- Oh yes. And things only get crazier from here... Lets say the letter S represents the same infinite, alternating series of plus and minus 1 from earlier. Step 8: S = 1-1+1-1+1-1... Now lets play around. What is (1 - S)? Just insert numbers into the equation to see. Step 9: 1 - S = 1 - (1-1+1-1+1-1...) Multiply every bracketed number by the negative sign. Step 10: 1- S = 1-1+1-1+1-1... Didn't we say that S = 1-1+1-1+1-1... in the first place? Step 11: 1 - S = S So if we move things around to the other side to solve the equation we get Step 12: 2S = 1 divide to finish the problem Step 13: S = 1/2 = 1-1+1-1+1-1.... In review we have: 0 = 1-1+1-1+1-1... 1 = 1-1+1-1+1-1... 1/2 = 1-1+1-1+1-1... putting it all together we get solid logical proof for 0 = 1/2 = 1 In this way, the truth of even one of the most simple mathematical concepts is Absolutely Relative and based on your contextual perspective. Fuckkkk. We can't allow this. There has to be some solid answer. Lets keep going. Let's imagine a lamp that turns on and off 1 = the lamp is on 0 = the lamp is off Then lets imagine ourselves turning the lamp on and off indefinitely. S = 1-1+1-1+1-1... = On, Off, On, Off, On, Off... This is called Thomson's Lamp, after a mathematician named James F. Thomson. The universe wants to know what Thomson's lamp looks like at the end of infinity. Oh you say we can't do that? That would take all of eternity, wouldn't it? Actually it would just take one day. Or one hour. Or one minute. Or However long I'd like. Lets say I decided to figure out what's going on with Thomson's Lamp in under a minute. I would wait half of a chosen total time to turn the lamp on. Then I would wait half of that time to turn the light off. Then I would wait half of that half to turn the light on again. And so on and so on over the course of just one minute. I can match each step in turning the lamp on and off to each half intervals of the total time I chose. After an infinitely smaller set of intervals, I will have an infinite number of steps. This would be called a super task. Step 1: ON - Total Time passed: 30 seconds Step 2: OFF - Total Time passed: 45 seconds Step 3: ON - Total Time passed: 52.5 Seconds Step 4: OFF - Total Time passed: 56.25 Seconds Step 5: ON - Total Time passed: 58.125 Seconds ... infinite number of times ... Step 5: ??? - Total Time elapsed: 1 minute Thomson had this to say about his lamp's state at the end of the minute: It seems impossible to answer this question. It cannot be on, because I did not ever turn it on without at once turning it off. It cannot be off, because I did in the first place turn it on, and thereafter I never turned it off without at once turning it on. But the lamp must be either on or off. This is a contradiction. Thomson jumped the gun when he says his example demonstrates a 'contradiction.' See, I'd like you to bear with me when I say that life isn't so black and white. Indeed, life as we know it happens in the undefined state of 1/2, where the lamp isn't ON or OFF even though it can be none other than ON or OFF. Here is a graph of the on off lamp where 1 = On and 0 = Off What we can do is take the theoretical infinite limit of the series. Limits are basically a way to say "alright, where is this stuff headed?" Usually, limits require convergence, or a clear direction for the graphed out representation. What you'd end up doing is taking that convergence and finding the average of its direction. As you can see in the above graph, however, the lamp is in a state of ON or OFF such that it has no convergence. If anything there is divergence. That's fine. Math allows us to keep looking at bracketed versions of the series and take the average of all of the answers and then take the average of that average. In normal people talk, just look at the little line I placed in the average of the graph: it's 1/2. If you still don't understand, watch this video: When looking at this sum Thomson had this to say: Now mathematicians do say that this sequence has a sum; they say that its sum is 1⁄2. And this answer does not help us, since we attach no sense here to saying that the lamp is half-on. Lets look at this lamp in real life: Most everyday lamps don't turn on and off at an infinitely fast rate. They go through a partly-on and partly-off state. So the real world version of the lamp would never quite be on or off at end of our little time interval. Moreover, if the lamp were able to turn on and off at an infinitely fast rate, it would still appear ON to us despite having an average of 1/2. To understand what I mean, look at pulse-width modulation (PWM) works for dimming lamps. PWM lights turn on and off thousands of times per second, causing eyes and cameras to sample a mix of on and off time and average the two. When you "dim" the lamp, you actually just change the amount of time that goes by between ON flickers and OFF flickers. The key is that since eyes and cameras work by sampling light at a certain rate and pasting images together, you don't realize that there's any flickering going on at all. Again, in fast motion, it just looks like a light that's on. So, 1/2 looks like 1 and not so much like 0, although it is indeed just at 1/2. That's just the surface level. ----- Isn't it just a little sketchy that I claimed to complete an infinite task in a finite time as if it were a piece of cake? I intentionally ignored the significance of what was going on. We all do. See, every moment of our day is itself a super task. Think about it for a moment: when you walk across the street you have to walk across half of the street when you walk across half the street you have to walk across half of the half of the street when you walk across the half of the half of the street you have to walk across half of the half of the half of the street. and so on towards infinity Thus we have an infinite amount of steps taken in a finite time. This is called Zeno's Paradox. Scientists handwave the paradox away by saying that reality "stops" at the Planck length, planck time, and light signals of the observable universe, but metaphysically, that is bullshit. (What happens when we cross half a planck length? and half of that? etc...) Moreover, we don't just quantize reality as a way to talk. We do so unconsciously from the very moment we are born. It's necessary to have a minimum limit to the size of time and space or else we could not function whatsoever. The human brain itself seems to localize and quantize infinite awareness. (read: does not create, but instead localizes!) It takes pure infinite energy and pure infinite time and pure infinite imagination and makes it a finite form of energy, time, and imagination. It's like an anchor for pure nothingness to believe it is pure everythingness. The brain does this over and over again at a certain frame rate such that reality gets created and destroyed and created again without us noticing. You know how movies have a frame rate of about 24 frames per second? We have a frame rate too. Although the eye itself does not have an on and off switch similar to a camera, our entire being itself has a frame rate. Otherwise, we would be stuck going through infinity at every moment. This frame rate is what determines our estimation of time's passage. Again, if you increase the frame rate, you would get a slowed down reality. If you decrease the frame rate, you would get a faster reality. The smaller you cut up time, the slower it gets. If you cut it infinitely small, you get infinite time. If there are no cuts then there is simply infinity. If you don't believe me, try to swat a fly. Small insects cut up, or quantize, reality at a greater rate than we do and for that reason, they have ridiculous reaction times. Their 'frame rate' is around 250 Hz while ours is about 60 Hz. For that reason, flies see us swatting them at about 1/4th the speed we think we do and they easily escape. So to be clear again, time itself is infinitely smooth. But to experience this you would have to take an infinite amount of time, which is simply not feasible for a normal creature. The solution is that our brains cut up time and space into distinct units to bootstrap time and get it going. This 'cutting up' makes reality "pop" in and out of existence every moment. The flickering of creation and destruction gets glazed over so that it all looks like one smooth thing. We would not function very well if we saw everything flickering in and out of existence while time passes from one moment of now to the next moment of now. The same general idea applies to why we don't perceive objects as probability clouds, but instead newtonian objects. We would not function if everything we saw 'existed' as a probability cloud. Imagine looking in your lovers eyes only to see right through their head because they are in fact made out of 99.9999% vacuum! So, we unconsciously make it look like: the lamp is On reality is real objects are solid you are "you" When the truth is that: the lamp is in a non dual state, both On and Off reality is in a non dual state, both real and not-real objects are in a non dual state, both waves and particles you are in a non dual state, both you and not-you ---- And it goes further. Lets look at the big bang and cosmic inflation and apply our little numbers for a second by saying 0 = a state of nothingness 1/2 = a state in-between nothingness and oneness 1 = a state of ultimate oneness Now, 1 -- Lets "start" with the big bang for a moment. This would be like a state of '1.' We're talking about an infinitely large universe packed into a space that was smaller than a cosmic string. We're talking about a state where all matter and all possibilities and all of existence were packed together in something smaller than all of matter and all possibility and all of existence. This is uncalculatably low entropy. It's as mystical as it gets to think that this level of entropy could have ever happened. Its up there with the greatest mysteries of the world. Just think about what it would take to gather up so much stuff in one small, highly ordered space. And I thought it took forever to set up a game of Jenga! 1/2 --- Then we have a never-ending inflation outward. Everything explodes outwards at a faster and faster rate forever. This creates stars and planets and ultimately Us. We walk around thinking about it, aware of our impending doom looming around the next step, constantly taking action to do something about this doom. 0 --- No matter what, the inflation continues such that every atom is becomes totally separate from all other atoms. Space is at an unimaginable level of high entropy. This is the heat death. This is zero. There is nothingness. There is so much nothingness that the notion of time itself is a Kosmic joke. If I record a video of the universe over the course 1 planck time, 10 years or 1 google years and play back the video over an interval of 10 seconds, everything will look the same. At this moment, it doesn't matter what happened any more --- all of history erases itself. Something strange happens. A new bubble of oneness - aka a new big bang happens. Even if there's a 1/googol chance of this happening, it would happen because who gives a fuck we have all of eternity to do it. From Caltech Physics, Cosmology, and Philosophy professor Sean Carroll's audio course Mysteries of Modern Physics -- Time: "Although it might be very rare to fluctuate 100 billion galaxies, it may not be that difficult to fluctuate the tiny region of space that is dominated by super–dark energy and is ready to inflate. ○ Imagine we have empty space, nothing but vacuum energy and the very cold thermal radiation we expect because of quantum mechanics. Random thermal fluctuations occur all the time. ○ Because space itself is flexible, perhaps the shape of space can be fluctuated. Perhaps a small bubble can be pinched off that is full of dark energy and ready to inflate. That little bubble can inflate, expand, reheat, and look exactly like our Big Bang. ○ In this way, what we thought was equilibrium—a state of maximum entropy—could be shown not to be equilibrium. We can always increase the entropy of the universe, according to this way of thinking, by creating new universes that split off and go their own way, and this process continues forever." A related scenario is that the purpose of conscious evolution itself is to induce such universal pinching off! Some call this the omega point. Imagine if we (or some 'other' conscious beings somewhere at some time) are put here on this universe to help create the type of hyper dimensional superconsciousness that could induce a universal bubble after our own deaths. Or imagine that we create a supercomputer that creates a supercomputer that simply recreates the universe through simulation. Or imagine creating some form of a cosmic consciousness where calculations are made in a hyper dimensional place. imagine that the cosmic bubble, the simulation, and the cosmic consciousness are the same fucking thing! Now imagine that this will happen at the end of our time. In particular, we take all of eternity to figure out how to pinch off a simulated baby-universe somehow. Then Imagine that this happened at the beginning of our time. In particular, it took someone or something all of eternity to figure out how to pinch off the baby universe that we exist in currently. It's the most unbelievable thing ever. Then imagine that it's happening right now as we gear ourselves up with computers, video games, and space missions for what seems like no good reason other than some weird idea of "progress" that no one can actually define but the smartest people all work toward. Let's Go back to the scenario of a super simulation. Lets say this cosmic computer created a universe that looks basically identical to the one we live in. Imagine the hyper dimensional computer pinching off simulated minds within itself meant to explore the simulation it created. Imagine little robots it can send out with the sole purpose of gathering data -- little probes that can look and feel and touch things from a filtered perspective while figuring out how the hell to create a new universe. To this Kosmic-supercomputer-mind's simulated perspectives within itself, objects look solid. But when these simulated perspectives look at objects with a microscope they reveal the objects to be 99.99999999% nothing because, again, they're just holographic simulated perspectives. (And by the way, there's no difference between 1 and 99.9999 repeated, so 99.9999 repeated nothingness is 100% nothingness). To these simulated perspectives, all sensation would be a hallucination. To be clear: Hallucination - noun - 1. a sensory experience of something that does not exist outside the mind. Since every experience would always just be another part of mind, everything would be a hallucination. Imagine that this hyperdimensional-Kosmic-Supercomputer-consciousness takes in all simulated perspectives to gather enough data to once again do the impossible. It manages to create - better yet be - that godhead known as the Big Bang Singularity after some time. Except that, even the hyper dimensional-kosmic-supercomputer-consciousness a simulation! What I propose is that we are part of a mind at large that creates simulated holograms within itself to better understand itself before it once again dies and rebirths itself through yet another super simulated non dual existence. This mind at large is conscious and it is conscious of its own impending death and rebirth. And We - and this is a Kosmic We that includes all possible conscious creatures in all possible areas of the universe - are here to create the universe - to create god by inducing further consciousness somehow using our individual perspectives. This has happened before and this will happen again and this happens forever. The mind-at-large is just another part of what ends up forming an even larger mind that forms an even larger one. We're talking mind-at-larges all the way up and simulated mind-at-larges all the way down. Turtles all the way up and turtles all the way down. We could go ahead and say that the universe just does this on its own spontaneously and so It doesn't need anyone. But what I'm saying is that we are what it looks like when the universe does this on its own. We are the spontaneous process. We have a universe that's created, destroyed, created, and destroyed over the course of eternity in many different ways. The path doesn't matter. The end state does. That end state gets reached through ever evolving life. And what does that end state look like after the course of eternity? It's somewhere in the middle of creation and destruction of course, just like Thomson's Lamp. 1-1+1-1+1-1+1... = S = 1/2 = Undefined. It would be the place where the lamp exists between On and Off. It would have no end, it would have no beginning. It would be us! We are what the end of eternity looks like! We're that in-between from the big bang to the heat death! THIS IS IT! Welcome to the end of eternity, motherfucker! Which is fucking awesome - not only do we get an answer to what's going on with reality, we also get a fucking purpose! What better purpose is there than to a) increase your consciousness to b) increase the overall consciousness of everyone and everything to c) create God to d) create you and everything and everyone you've ever loved. You want immortality? You want happiness? You want purpose? You got it: you are your own parent, your own infinite creator traveling from life to life bootstrapping your non dual existence by chipping away with a quadrillion different chisels from a quadrillion different perspective to create a statue of yourself in a place of absolute nothingness! You are indistinct, indivisible, indestructible, incomprehensible, invaluable - truly incredible! Your job is to realize and manifest this incredibleness. And they say you can't derive an ought from an is. We are in a state of both nothingness and everythingness glazed over to look like everythingness, just like the pulse-width modulated light. Each part of being has smaller parts forever. If you zoomed into at anything, it would disappear into deeper and deeper infinities. It would never have a place to stop. In this way, there's nothing but infinitely divisible parts that are made out of infinitely divisible nothingness. It is truly groundless. Each whole gets nested within bigger wholes forever. If you zoomed out, you would never find a point where you see the whole thing. It could never be 'whole' because to be whole implies an end. So it wouldn't even have the possibility of reaching wholeness for there's always more to add. Parts create wholeness except parts don't exist and wholeness don't exist. It would transcend zeroness and oneness and simply be non-dual. But we don't see it that way. We see it as naive reality consistent of solid, separate, whole parts with a finite size. *sigh* Actually, who am I kidding. These are all just speculations. Plus, It's not like you'd understand. You'd rather stick to the paradigm that you know the limits of what's true or not true. You'd rather freak out about calling reality a hallucination. You'd rather hide yourself from the possibility that you're essentially stuck in the matrix. In other words, lets go back to arguing about about the nature of trolls. Certainly taking trolls seriously is far more insane than taking rigorous, pure mathematical logic seriously.

I want to add that it's good to keep in mind that it's always the one experiencing, the thing looking from you right now is That. You are That. Surrendering only to that Truth is the basking in the Self. But we want to find the substance of existence? The answer is the same. Find yourself and then you will find the substance being you. Now you are at peace. Nothingness is magic and that's why it's everywhere. Right now this is an experience of nothing by nothing. All words come from nothing. All words return to nothing. We come from nothing, we are nothing, hallucinating it's real, something. Then I return to not hallucinating and being nothing, the one I always am. Everything - which is absolutely nothing (real, 100% me, awareness ) + hallucinations (not real, 0% me, therefore nothing, therefore real, therefore also 100% me, awareness).

@dead man walking It is simply impossible to imagine Nothingness. You are trying to imagine God. All ideas you have of it, including your ideas of "everything" and "nothing" are not it, not even close. If you want to understand, the best thing to do is: A) Self-inquire, B) psychedelics. The problem with the human mind is that it just cannot resist trying to imagine God. But the more it tries, the more wrong it is. You're not going to get much better than the descriptions I gave in my Absolute Infinity episodes.

I have made that mistake. But I agree it is not a negative state, it is as you say nothingness. I do not know how to respond to the other posts. I often come across these creative explanations but they do not give me much if there is no logic behind it.

For one thing i don't believe in nothingness. And theories are not distractions. Theories= thoughts and everyone has thoughts. Without theories it wouldn't be possible to inquire about anything including meditation and enlightenment. Also, in less than 60 seconds I'm going to prove to you that everything is a miricle, then explain time etc. The true nature of time is very confusing, but we have 2 different perspectives that we use for all of knowledge and of thought. The perspective most of us use is a whole lot easier! It consists of the present, the past and the future. But if we take quantum physics and include the big bang in it we see that time somehow is not made up of now, then and ahead of us. So everything we know is either wrong or miraculously correct. Since we are able to have a concept of reality and we learn things as we go it is apparent that a very powerful force allows the learning to happen but only at the will of that force at the same time we are also each a piece of that force and the force is one, AND everything we can imagine happened in zero seconds. Without time. The continuous big banging going on creating new universes is how time is made in the 3rd demention. Time exists in the 2D world in a fashion unknown to us until we leave the 3d world and return to the outside of each universe. Our spirits are 2D located in the pineal gland in your brain. When the mind is partially unconscious, asleep, under a drug, encounters any chemical it affects the body or (vessel) the brain, and the spirit in unique ways all at the same time. The spirit travels or (out of body) at all times. When the body dies the spirit is cut off and naturally goes to it's origin. The outside of this universe and im not sure but i imagine u go to a sort of "checkpoint" and then you are taken to a new body. The easier way to think of time isn't necessarily exactly the same as we think but it's ok! Our perceptions are always at least grasping it's reality only in a small amount or a larger amount depending on the permission of itself, oneness and the greater force. Assension happens continuously as the object or (body) changes into a greater force until it and all others become one. The oneness that exists is perfectly solid until it explodes into the next universe. We won't know all things of each universe until it becomes one in a newly formed place. Alive not alive things are always learning or collecting data and each have their own perceptions/reactions. As far as enlightenment goes, meditation seems to be the way most people do so, but the individual is king of the path.

@dead man walking Only nothingness can be infinite; somethingness is bound to be finite. Only out of nothingness is an infinite expanse of life, existence, possible - not out of somethingness. God is not somebody: He is nobody or, more correctly, nobodiness. God is not something: he is nothing or, even more correctly, no-thingness. He is a creative void. Never for a single moment think that nothingness is a negative state, an absence, no. Nothingness is simply no-thingness. Things disappear, only the ultimate substance remains. Forms disappear, only the formless remains. Definitions disappear, the undefined remains. The awakening of a buddha is total. In that total awakening there is a luminous awareness surrounded by a positive nothingness. It is not empty, it is overfull. Things have disappeared... and what has remained is inexpressible. We try to express it as blissfulness, as ecstasy, as eternal joy, but these are just faraway echoes of the real thing. Osho, The Great Zen Master Ta Hui, Talk #16

Hello! I have been doing 30-60 min of self-inquiry every day for a month now. I would appreciate if some could tell me, if i'm on the right path or not 1. I start with my eyes open and look at my body. Am I the foot? Am I the leg? What if I cut of the leg? Will that leg still be a part of me? 2. Then I start to open og close my eye for at few times. With closed eyes the body doesn't exist, but I am still there? So why do I think that I am the body? 3. Then I sit with closed eyes. And I ask: Who am I? Am I some of the remaining phenomenons? The changing colour in my sight? The sounds? The feelings? And how can I know that I am these or not? Or maybe I am the sphere within the phenomenon is occuring? I have been stucked on this level for at good time. 4. Then yesterday I sat with closed eye and was asking again frustrated What is left? Sight? Sounds? feelings? maybe awareness? For fuck sake there is "nothing" more. Then it hit me that I have always thought that nothing was the opposite to phenomenon... Like something that is between phenomenon. But maybe nothing is a phenomenon/object that is just non-existing? So I tried to sense the phenomenon of nothing between my thoughts, behind the feeling of my back and under my butt. And then I asked: if this emptiness/nothingness is not the body or mind, where does it end? I would be glad for any input

Well, in a sense, yes. There is the Absolute Truth which is the nothingness / everythingness. And then, there is earth phenomenon which is life as we know it. Then, there are different layers/levels of heaven and hell phenomena. It's funny how sometimes the different phenomena intermingle. Maybe that's why they're talking about trolls. Troll phenomenon: Let me add, life is a school. Leo's blog talks about it. Looks like we better graduate from this life first. Don't forget to factor in karma.

It's definitely not a nothing we can conceive of... "The Nothing that I refer to has no opposite; it is the nebulous source." " "The world of objects is limited, Nothingness is not." "Absolute Nothingness, on the other hand, is limitless, pregnant with infinite potential." Those are all quotes from God is Nothingness. Obviously our reality is an illusion, in reality is Nothingness or Nothing. Okay, this is in an Absolute way. But to say that trolls are as real as the tree is non-sense. One is conceptual, imaginary or what have you and the other one has an existence outside of the personal mind. Just because they are the same in the Absolute sense doesn't make them the same in the relative one. The exist in different levels... So, are Trolls real? In Absolute Nothingness, as real as I am. In the world of objects, yes, as a conceptual activity.

Yesterday, I was excited. And I was so excited that I wanted it to stop. I bought the book The Mind Illimuninated and I found that yesterday, I was in stage 8 of the 10 Stages for much of the day. Maybe stage 7 or even stage 9. I remember going into this state before from time to time. I'd feel my body exploding with joy, a rush of sensations everywhere. And I have to stop the meditation because I can't help but get distracted by how extraordinary this is. Sometimes I'd get a taste of it outside meditation. I remember programming once and I was suddenly enthralled by an intense joy. It was like being a volcano, but instead of anger, I erupted with joy. I got myself some really celebratory music and thought of how amazing life was. But when I chased after it, the farther it left me. I became attached to it. I kept a story of myself in my mind about how I was "the success story". Managed to get myself from the depths of depression into now. But the thing about it is that I kept my sense of self. As Peter Ralston said, it's like associating yourself as a hard worker. It might be true most of the time. But often they'd associate the hard worker image even when they're tired and need to rest. And because of this challenge to their image, they get upset. They might associate with certain music, certain people, certain activities and more that they lose themselves farther and farther in a false identity. The thing is even if I'm generally "A success story" by that means, that doesn't mean the unconscious associations of perfection, the end of it all and similar ideas are true. When people say Buddhism teaches to let go of desire, that's rather misleading. As if we're taught to become wide eyed happy people accomplishing nothing in life. But the deeper I go, the more I realize that what's really being taught is to remove rigid desire. And to achieve a desire of flowing in something, effortless, yet still powerful. It's like realizing that desire isn't a rigid metal bar no one can break, but like a clay you can form into whatever you want to. When I let go of that image, I fell into what happened yesterday. It was tiring at the end, but it was still pretty amazing. Phabhaker told me to try Osho Kundalini Meditation for my problems with excess energy. And in the beggining, I was told to shake as my body wanted it. When I thought I'd use up enough energy, it still kept going later on. The next stage was to dance and while I imagined a kind of elegant fluid dance, my body found its way to do something pretty whacky in kicking and flailing arms randomly while throwing in some hip hop moving dance. I heard a joke before about breakdancing monks. I never thought there's a chance it could be real. Heh. I felt like natural geographic is making a nature documentary on the ceremonial human being's dance into nothingness complete with classical music. And here you see is the natural homosapien of meditative tendencies dancing the way of Kundalini. But I just told myself to keep focusing. Then I was told to sit down or stand still but I was so tired, I just lied down. But when I lied down, I felt my arms needed to move. So I punched the air. And so did my legs. Kick. Kick. WATASHI KARATE MASTER. HARDCORE XXX! Motherfucker in the face! or whatever my bad Japanese is in a horribly done accent. But the deeper I went, the more I felt myself being absorbed. By what? I don't know. It was as if I was wrapped by nothingness. Like water in a glass. But without the glass. What do you imagine when you hear the word nothing? Do you see an empty box? Pitch black? No, it's just nothing. And that can't be imagined, thought or felt. Just experienced. I read that before stage 8 are like horses going in different directions. Obviously, it's hard to move well and the direction they move will come from the strongest horses. Stage 8 is when the horses move into the same direction, but at different speeds. Some horses rush forward wanting more and the other horses resist to want a slower pace. If I want my focus to be more matured, I had to allow these horses to move as one. One practice for stage 8 was focusing on nimitta. It was a picture of a luminous round object in someone's mind, appearing naturally. I was told to let it grow naturally and was told how to. As I practiced, I noticed the nimitta changing colors. Green. Yellow. Red. They never mentioned something about that. And I moved it around a bit back and forth. But I found I can only move it subtly. I felt a strange calmness. As if sitting inside an enormous temple, seeing the majesty of its heights and absorbing it all. This lasted for about 10 minutes. They described "popping" when we got out of this Jhana state. When I got out, I felt like I heard all the sounds and saw all the sights. Nothing in particular. Just everything at once. With an expansion of awareness yet with a penetrating depth of detail. And in my mind, it was all nothing. Take a book and you'll often have ideas of it in your mind. Cultural ideas. Spiritual ideas. Memories. Likes. Dislikes. Facts. Details. History. But if I saw a book in that state, I won't see that. I'd just see the colors, the lines and the shapes. And it's like that image of it in your mind but go farther to remove what certain colors and shapes and lines mean to you. And remove how these all come together to connect into something you see as an object because even that is an idea. And when everything is removed, there is only nothing. I tried a practiced that involving noticing stillness. It told me to imagine the universe around me first and contrasting that with my breath to gain a stillness. But I already felt it. I focused on this stillness, as if hearing the silence between sounds. As I type this, I feel pretty calm and tranquil. But I can be satisfied with it because I'm not chasing after that intense joy. Maybe to get nearer enlightenment, I have to be even satisfied without something luxurious as intense joy. Or maybe I'm losing focus and just getting bored. Eh, who knows? Not that I need enlightenment right now, do I?

@Telepresent no problem man. The pointing experiment is the most revealing. It reveals..nothingness. It reveals that emptiness at center is Source for everything. You are capacity for everything. Having a turbulent day? Turbulence out there and calmness at center.

The next stage is to realize that your belief that you are at the center of things is an illusion. But even that is a story. You as a body-mind-brain don't exist. But even that is a story. What exists is reality being aware of itself, and reality is everything moving as one giant flow without distinction. But even that is a story. And Reality being itself just is you. But even that is a story. You are not a thing but the non-dual reality being itself. But even that is a story. You are the atmosphere that is aware of all the clouds moving though it, yet you are not the clouds. But even that is a story. Reality is not conceptually capturable, it is idealism. It is what is -- stripped of our thought-stories about it. It is being that. Knowing it by being it. But even that is a story Everything you see around you is not physical. It's a non-dual substance. But even that's a story. Nothing is what is conscious of everything. It's just one being. But even that's a story. Nature is nothingness. And that's what you are. It has no properties, no features. It doesn't exist or not exist. But even that's a story. Fall into the godhead. This is the ultimate nature of reality. Where there are no distinctions and you are aware you are nothing, and that everything is you. Absolute Infinity is right in front of you. BUT . . . . Need I go on? Do you see by not-seeing what I am pointing/ not-pointing to? Enlightenment is an odd sort of reading between the lines. But, yes, even that is a little story, a little hairless-monkey fairy-tale we tell ourselves to feel like we know. To satisfy our need to know, our need for certainty. Our human/egoic urge for conceptual resolution, for understanding -- that succulent, tantalizing fruit we can't resist -- like Eve not minding God and wanting to feast on such forbidden-fruit from the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden. After God found out about this little fruit-picking transgression, He said, get the hell outta here and don't come back! Don't be pickin' no fruit from my Tree of Knowledge. I told you explicitly not to do this. Jeez!

@Telepresent you are the box in your avatar pic. The box is implied. Only implied. It is no-thing. IMO, you are going in the right direction. 'I am not my body' - is a big step. Currently, however, you seem to be identifying as your brain / thinking / thoughts. The next big step is becoming aware that you are not your thoughts - and then next step after that is that there is no "you" which has thoughts / no observer which observes the thoughts. There is no-thing, which we all are, through us / which has awareness. See how "we are all One"? No souls, no heaven & hell, no observer - just the one no-thing. (The one no-thing is pure love & bliss btw, yet also no-thing at all) (also, imo, it has an incredible sense of humor, and also is no-thing) To detach from your thoughts, which allows the next breakthrough, you must get started putting the focus in, doing the meditation. Continue the self inquiry. Start eating vegan. Excercising. Then you'll be feeling great. Assimilate the habit of breathing awareness 24/7 & BEING IN THE NOW. Past & future are merely thoughts in the now. Look at all things and say "that's not me".......Then try shrooms. Research it! You'll breakthrough. Continue that "path" of no path, and you're on your way to nothingness. (And it's fucking awesome, no fear, no doubt, everything makes sense, love pours out of you all day, miracles happen, birds chirp to you, water feels like a kindred spirit / best friend, people come out of the wood work with opportunities for you, funny is funnier, crazy is crazier!!! Animals will literally walk out of the woods and gaze into your eyes while you both experience - that you are no thing, Beautiful is true beauty itself, the stars pop right into place every time you look at them!, IT REALLY GETS AMAZING TELLY!! ....also...it's also no thing, plus, you'll be CRAZY!????)

This website has amazing demonstrations of how infinite you are. The scale presented stops at the plank length for the small stuff and the Cosmic background radiation for the big stuff, but guess what? You - consciousness - the universe - God - nothingness - absolute infinity goes unimaginably farther in every way imaginable. The scale demonstrated here is nothing compared to the Truth of what you actually Are. Everywhere you look, everything you see, everywhere you move consists of an infinitely deep, multidimensional fractal of pure consciousness. You can go to the end of the universe, the end of time, and zoom into the the planck length of a Planck length of a Planck length and you will only find more consciousness. Consciousness is All. And You are the primary source! And everyone else - even an amoeba - is the primary source too! We are all the primary source such that nothing is the primary source. In the words of the Three Musketeers: "One for all, all for one!" This is not woo-woo pseudoscience. This is physical fact; metaphysical fact; psychosocial fact! This is fact. Period. We are Knots of consciousness folded up within 'Big' consciousness to seem like we are seperate. Do not be fooled by your own tricks. In the words of DJ Khaled, "never play yourself"! The superclusters you see toward the far end of the scale of the universe are basically gigantic neurons that help form the Kosmic Mind that we reside in. But this mind is just one mind in a sea of more minds that goes so far that it wraps upon itself to once again become you. We play around in the mind of God. God plays around in the mind of us. Kosmos plays around inside Kosmos. And what do we play? We play the game of "how did I do it?" God loves telling himself the story of how he created himself. See, Consciousness is irreducible... it is the ultimate metaphysical conundrum... it is unsolveable... except for a god. God sets up some conditions using the language of mathematics, blows itself up and then figures out how to put itself back together. It's like painting on cardboard, taking a knife to cut up puzzle pieces, scrambling the puzzle, and then punching yourself in the face to forget what the puzzle is supposed to look like. It takes an infinite being to solve an infinite problem. If it's not us, it's some other lifeform, but somehow, someway we will (re)learn how it's done. The life form that figures it out will always be Us at its core. In this way, god reforms god. Here's another way to put it: ever since the Big Bang, our universe has slowly died due to the 2nd law of thermodynamics. The universe uses us - life forms - to prepare itself for its heat death due to cosmic expansion. We are how the universe thinks. We are the ones who help it understand how to rebuild and start a new bubble of inflation once the heat death occurs. Big Bang - life - heat death - Big Bang - life - heat death. And it all happens Now. Forever. Forever Now. Do you see? So who started it? Us. Who ends it? Us. Now and forever. Note the my usage of Kosmos instead of Cosmos. 'Cosmos' refers to the physical reality we observe normally. 'Kosmos' refers to the multidimensional evolving Totality of existence, encompassing not only the physical (cosmos/cosmic) but the biological, emotional, mental, psychic, and spiritual domains. On the left are neurons. On the right are cosmic superclusters. Put it together: one mind, one consciousness. All the best, TJ

No no no! You DO believe you know what you are. If you didn't know what you are, then you would not be asking these questions. An intellectual not knowing is vaastly different from a real genuine experiential not knowing. That's very important to understand. So yes of course you are still identified with something. Most likely your body and your mind, and not the chair your sitting on. A while ago Leo said in other post something like 'put yourself in an imaginary situation where you've got a gun to your head, and the person holding the gun is gonna' pull the trigger unless you honestly tell them what the hell you think you are.' Put yourself in that situation. I mean, it's fairly obvious that you're identified with the body/mind, unless you are actually awake. My guess is that your not though. Just be honest with yourself. It's very important that you try to get very clear about what you believe yourself to be. You also need to get the idea of 'reaching that nothingness' out of your head. There's no going anywhere! It's all right here, right now.

@Space yes, that's what ive been doing, you described it very clear. the problem is that I got to a point where i simply dont know what i am so i cant get that honest answer. what do i do then? if i dont know and im not enlightened yet, does that mean that i still kinda identify with something and im not aware of it? and i should try to find that something? or should i try to reach that nothingness and realize thats me?

@Ilya Sit down. Put aside all your life concerns and focus all of your attention on the inquiry for the period of time you choose. Commit to putting all your energy into it for this period. Like honestly, really commit to it. Don't be lazy. When you're mind wanders, which it will, don't judge yourself, but bring your attention right back to the inquiry. Set a simple but, more importantly, genuine intention to become conscious of what you are, believe in your intention and believe that it can be done. Really cultivate a desire to know what you are. Then, bring your attention to the present moment. Get real focused and concentrated on the present moment and the process of observation (i.e. self-observation). Take a minute or so to just observe what it is in your direct experience. Realise that there isn't anything but your direct experience. So anything else that you think might exist is just a concept. Then, ask yourself 'What Am I?'. Get a real, honest, genuine, answer. What do you honestly think you are right now. Honestly! Right now! Put aside all ideas and beliefs about what you are that you might have heard from Leo or read about on this forum. I say 'put aside' because your conceptual understanding of what you are is necessary in order to avoid wasting lots of time. But for the purposes of your inquiry, put everything aside, and start from scratch as though you've never heard of Nothingness or Consciousness or whatever. All you need is your direct experience. When you have a genuine and really honest answer about what you think you are, then contemplate it. Can this thing, a body, a thought, a feeling, or whatever, be what I am? Is this thing I am aware of what I truly am? And obviously you don't just question your beliefs once, you question them many many many times.

Well, if we define Metaphysics as the investigation of being, then it is squarely-relevant to enlightenment. The problem is anything you say will be a story existentially speaking. If it has import concerning "being being" which is what is relevant to enlightenment, it will only serve as scaffolding to help you act, think, and be better (including how you "be" regarding clinging to and interpreting beliefs in specific moments). Investigate theory all you want, just don't cling to any ideology about enlightenment too-rigidly. Don't be too mechanical or ideological across-the-board, only if a specific moment calls for this. The territory laughs at the pretense of the map. The map is acting way beyond it's pay-grade! And it duddn't even realize this! That's our problem. Let the mystical-spark of being have the last-word over thought-story or belief staking their claim over your infinite-nature. Don't let thought turn you into something that is finite and thus not infinite. This all hinges ultimately on how "you" cling to and interpret thought in specific moments. Get this wrong, and you're gonna self-sabotage in life to a greater or lesser-extent. Get this right and you'll have emotional-mastery and freedom. Then you can do whatever you have mind to do without inner-obstacles resisting. Your actions and your will can finally both unify and dissolve into nothingness.

You mean being aware of your thoughts as thoughts and not you ? Because being aware only of awareness itself and being aware of nothingness would mean you realize some kind of enlightenment experience.

@Joseph Maynor Yes, this is normal. When the monkey mind gets calmer as you are describing, you start to embody more of alpha and theta brainwaves(a calmer state) and less beta brainwave activity (mental sounds). After a while, almost no mental sounds are present. This means that you embodied a calmer state of mind. This does not mean you ridded yourself of the mind or that you transcended the mind, it just became less obvious that the mind is still in operation, because you cannot hear internal thoughts. However this is far from transcending the mind so be careful, the mind can still play tricks with you in fact after you embody a state of perfect mental calmness (no mental sounds) the mind can still play tricks with you almost 24/7. The mind uses projections from the past/future and those projections project themselves onto the now moment. Monkey mind, the mind that's not present = hearing mental sounds, past and future thoughts... The present mind = no mental sounds because it is present, still has a grip on you and controls you, still attached and still identified with the mind... No mind = no mental sounds, ability to detach from the mind on demand, ability to act arational, you can use the mind like a servant and not let the mind use you, discernment, identified with nothingness - consciousness - God - awarness, no self.... This is not some theory I have heard somewhere this is actually a timeline I have gone trough and experienced. People who think that being present with no monkey mind is the answer to end suffering and identification with the mind are dead wrong, it is funny.

That was "my" problem too. Maybe you need to talk to someone about your struggle to find out the solution. I know that the solution for your problem is to do N O T H I N G and allow truth/reality/nothingness to act on you and while it does this, sit and do N O T H I N G and stop wraping your mind around what you gotta' do. The truth isn't somewhere, it is there your only solution is to surrender to it. I have done that and i feel more peaceful already.

I never really introduced myself properly haven't I? Maybe it's time I tell you what's life been like with meditation even before. Rewind to 2012 or 2013, where I was about 11 or 12. I remember sitting in a car, the sun sitting in the sky, the trees and the cars shifting by. I was listening to a guided meditation. And I noticed they kept moving off to the next thing without me. I was too slow in focusing. I kept daydreaming about being some hero in a virtual reality game. And with fear, I wondered if I could really do all this. I was worried back then. Worried about what? Everything. I worried about my health. I worried about my future. I worried about my grades. I worried about being loved. I worried about being watched. I worried about being irrational. Worrying, worrying and worrying to the point of terror sometimes. Pretty early for a kid to be worrying about life like that, huh? Someday I realized that I had the whole internet full of advice and I found meditation. After all, the greatest lost I had back then was the lost of curiosity. I was the bright eyed kid who was somehow both the class nerd and the class clown. Often sitting upon pillows in the library. Often relaxing as I flip pages and other times running away laughing from pranks. I read things from fun facts about animals to machines. I read about the history of the Greeks to the daring lives of real life spies. I made origamis and I often drew from art books. I read stories upon stories. I was interested in about every part of the children's library. And I hoped in my heart that this sense of wonder would come back. One of the things I've often read were question and answer advice sites online — my first taste of the personal development world. I read but I never really acted on them. I even prided on just knowing them — but this was when I had to actually do them. For years along with other practices I'd meditate everyday. Or at least try to. I'd always do so in the bus to school in the morning and sometimes in the afternoon. I researched what I could on this subject and I'd practice focusing through the day and through the night. Around 14, sometimes I would lose the ability to read. All my worrying had consumed all of my brain power and what was left for me to do the thing I loved most disappeared. I remember sitting on the couch pouring over a book and desperately glaring at it to read ; but I . . . I couldn't focus. And the tears would start to come. This would add in my life an even greater obsession with the practice. There were days when I meditated 2-3 hours a day. By 15, I'd stop repeating the old practices and begin with newer ones. The closest thing to the idea of enlightenment I had was an existential depression I had when I was 15. In one of Leo's infinity videos, he'd mention that Georg Canter was able to conceptualize infinity or non duality but because he did not experience it directly, it drew him to madness. I might have experienced something similar. I asked myself one day : Why do I believe this exists? Take any object. Why do I believe this chair exists? Because I see it. Why do I think what I see exists? Because other people have always told me. Why do I believe that? And I understood — there was nothing to add foundation to that. I've read in history books before that people could experience dangerous things because humanity was ignorant. Doctors didn't use to know that washing their hands before surgery was needed. They used to have wallpaper that was radioactive. They used to think sugar was healthy. I was on too doubting much of reality here — if I had Leo's videos, it would allow me to be more open minded in ways that can help me. But without the grounding of direct experience — this experience of nothingness enligtenment wasn't calming — it was strikingly, absolutely and fucking terrifying. Somewhere I decided that there really nothing else to it. Beliefs have to start with faith somewhere. Every belief does. And after reading some online advice, I spent more time in my life doing to answer questions than just theorizing. And realizing and acting upon slowly that my time spent alone too much was one of the major reasons I was suffering. All the time spent in mindfulness would add up — and soon I can focus on something I find interesting for hours. As well as make goofy and overdramatic jokes with other people like I did as a kid — heh. I had a favorite Buddhist concept after all. That was beginner's mind — it is to act as you know nothing about the subject. And be open to observe what else could happen. To see the subtle change of breath. Its movements. The small changes in the mind, thoughts and emotions that happened every second. It was impermeance. And if things were always changing, then there was always something interesting to learn every second. But also the idea that truth changes because the world is changing. . . And so beliefs had to be change as well. My awareness would grow exponentially. Growing and growing and growing to the forefront of everyday life. I've never been so amazed and awed by the smallest things — when you see everything as if for the first time. I used this in meditation. . . but it also became a way of life..

That's good, being aware of nothingness, nice

I think your problem is with the word 'nothingness'... Not sure in what context you came across the statement 'Nothingness is self aware' and for me just this statement alone doesn't mean anything at all. But I can see what the author would have meant and I can elaborate on it. What is a 'thing'? It can be anything that can be witnessed by your senses or in the consciousness. By this definition, a thought is also a 'thing'. So, you, who witnesses any thing cannot be a thing. It is a no-thing . The word no-thingness is probably more clear than nothingness. You keep trying to conceptualize who you are... Anyway, if you think your inner voice is self-aware, thats ok for now. Just go ahead with what you are practicing, if it is working for you..

@Shanmugam but yet the teaching says that Nothingness is self aware. Than why can't my inner voice be self aware?