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@Leo Gura I would say that there are many enlightened beings who awoke because they wanted peace, bliss or heaven. I think its a question of what you want to achieve with this work. Do you want to escape suffering and experience heaven? then there are good ways to do that. Or do you want to fully understand? then there are other ways to achieve that.

This desire can be a good source of motivation, yet it can also be a major block since it is still a self-seeking orientation. The self desires for itself to be free of discomfort and to experience bliss. The problem with this is that the self will be repulsed by any experiences it perceives as suffering or leading to suffering. It will contract itself and cut itself off from certain realizations and embodiment. For example, if I am oriented toward being free of all my suffering, how can I learn and embody the love with the experience of anxiety and despair? I won’t be open to those lessons and expansions.

Braindump @ 11:54. Where does love come from? It seems like to me there are three different levels or framings to it. First. Love comes from other people. This is a kind of attentional/tactile love. Your girlfriend shows you love by being with you and sharing responsibilities and compromising. You husband shows you love by caressing you and buying you flowers and making the right decisions. Your dog loves you because she's loyal and is always glad to see you. Without these things, you are alone and loveless. Second. Love comes from within yourself. The sensations of warmth and bliss that is love is only ever experienced by the being that is you. Love is an emotion that you are experiencing irrespective of what the outside world is doing. Other people and pets only trigger that emotion within you, they aren't necessary in particular. Your boyfriend or best friend aren't "giving" you love, you are just doing it to yourself and they are triggering it. It is really self love - love borne from the self. Without self love, it is not possible to experience love at all - other people will not trigger love within you - you must be able to love from within yourself. You can trigger your own love at any time, like turning on a tap. Third. Love is the stuff of reality. This is a more abstract level of love. This is a kind of love coming from a perfection. It is the perfect juxtaposition of all the elements of reality. The love permeates everything for all time. It's hard to grasp because like a fish in water, it's hard for a fish to know the water it swims in all the time even exists. You can get an understanding of it just by becoming aware of how completely absurd the experience of reality is. It's absurd to equate absurdity with love (the irony), but nonetheless. Scale. Why is everything so big? I could easily spend hours walking around my town and not even see the same place twice. My town is just one town in many hundreds in my country. There are hundreds of countries. The surface area of the oceans is bigger than the land area of the globe. There are many planets in our solar system, some bigger than the Earth. There 250,000,000,000 stars in just our galaxy alone. There are 100,000,000,000 galaxies in the universe. What the fuck? Why? Life. What is that? Stuff that replicates of its own accord, makes itself from the inert matter in the environment, goes about its business and then decides to stop living and dies. All life is related to itself. Why? All life is primarily made from carbon. All life has replicating DNA or RNA. All DNA and RNA is made from the exactly the same repeating units, every single organism. Not only that. Even the simplest single celled life is mindbogglingly complex - its all chains and chains of lifeless chemical reactions all working perfectly together. Why so complex? How does it all work perfectly? And then scale again: there is so much life on Earth, it's literally endless. It's completely absurd. Those are two examples. Life and scale and complexity, it all fits perfectly together without a glitch or any gaps. It really should be enough to bring you to tears, that you are here to witness it. It's love.

Of course, nobody can ever be certain that the joy or suffering experienced was the greatest. However, I've experienced higher peak states of bliss than probably 99% of the population: The meditative joy of adept stages of meditation, the rapture of Jhana DPT and 5-MeO breakthrough + many small-mid dose trips Various drugs in high recreational doses taken on clear receptors with no tolerance like amphetamine, MDMA, Opiates, Mephedrone, benzos, GHB, Nitrous... from which the most blissful was love on MDMA and fapping to porn on amphetamine As for suffering, the peak state of depression and anxiety when I almost committed suicide because irritability and anxiety levels were simply unbearable. I think no reasonable person would voluntarily take x time of extreme suffering like torture or cluster headache to then experience x time of the most bliss they can imagine. I'd rather be unconscious

Having experienced this "disorder", i can say that Enlightenment feels exactly like depersonalization disorder the only difference is with enlightenment you feel the Love of God, omniscience as pure Awareness, and you become conscious of what you are. The depersonalized individual has no epiphanies as the Absolute because althiough they are detached from any sense of self - they are not identified with their true nature. (And this is Bliss/Love) I remember after awakening one of the first things i exclaimed was "holy shit this is depersonalization with an order of God realization!" And Shinzen Young refers to it as enlightenments evil twin.

A few days before my grandma passed, here usual face of which was a mixture of happiness but with a lot of anger and contempt for life was radically transformed into pure bliss. I wasn't their at the time, but my mom sent me a picture of my grandma's face a few days before she passed and I have never seen a more authentic smile. It was like a life time of penny-pinching and blaming others fell away. Maybe she saw a glimpse of enlightenment or God, I am not sure. but I can say, seeing this photo of her changed my life. I fear death so much less now that I used to.

I am tired of this, I want to die, can't take it anymore, Deception, lies, manipulation all they know, God If you're really in me, give me the power to rise above all this, Rise above this cycle, I'm really so tired of all this, And it seems to go nowhere, I just want to die to pure bliss, Give me that, my Lord, I am tired and fed up of the chimpery, Please I want to give you my life completely, It's not worth living seems like, better if you just kill me at birth, I don't want to live it's so ugly, Disgusting, can't take anymore, Give me the forever peace, make me desireless, Please God, take my fears away, this world is not for me.

My 2 cents: Let's say there's a hardcore stage orange CEO sitting in his office. He sees this video and says: Okay, this sounds pretty good. Let me try get into the present moment and see what happens. He gets into the present moment and literally nothing (with lower case n) happens. He just doesn't experience bliss, peace, love, enlightenment, etc. He's confused and doesn't understand what's going on. Well, he's still strongly identified with his thoughts, emotions and ego unconsciously. There's fear, attachements, confusion and hardcore conditioning beneath the surface. No wonder he can't experience the power of Now.

It is a difficult path, perhaps the most difficult one there is. And I'm not perfect at it at all. I'm still falling back into my old self and patterns. No wonder why people don't choose it. It is a grind against everyone and everything in life. It is the ultimate suffering. And virtually nobody wants to suffer. There's a deep wisdom behind this path, and rarely anyone sees it. It's not about my joy and happiness. It's about the world and how corrupt it is. People confuse this path with a stage Blue religious belief, but they're unable to see beyond their egos. For me, the easiest thing to do is to go with the flow. I am a master at that. I've spent the past two years drowning in pleasures, from one thing to another, but it's not satisfying anymore. Going with the flow means turning a blind eye to the suffering of others. I can deny it all I want, but it'll still be there, even if I don't suffer on a personal level. I feel responsible for the suffering of others, and that's the best I could currently do to neutralise things. Happiness is ignorance. It is an unconscious reaction that plays out after a certain period of suffering. It is a comforting story for the ego. The ego never chooses the difficult path, but nothing lasts forever. I am getting more convinced that this is the right path. And old wisdom backs me up on this. Old sages certainly had valid reasons for preaching about this path. It's only these new-agey flaky teachers that don't seem to have gone full-circle, nor are responsible for their words that advocate 'the path of least resistance', and 'following your bliss'. That's the perfect bait for an ego. The ego wants nothing else more than a world purely made for its own sake. And sure enough, you will face a lot of these, dying to defend their ignorance. However, in no way I'm advocating for going to the extremes and torturing oneself. I'm simply trying to balance things out. Mad people thing they should know!

In my awakening, I had the following clear insights: We are all one There is only Love energy True love is unconditional The Ego does not exist The true I AM is completely indestructible The true I AM is everywhere - in the mountains, in the rivers, in birds (the same words that I uttered during the glimpse) Life has a harmonious design Everything that I ever knew was an illusion and a lie. There is no such thing as time and space There is bliss and ecstasy hidden underneath the illusion These insights have stayed with me since the initial awakening and they have matured deeply. However, my monkey mind doesn't understand what Nothingness means because in the awakening, the awareness had a characteristics of Love. So, it is not even Love? Is there more beyond it?

I tried today the new plugging technique Calmness shared (Thank you!) and all I can say that it really makes a difference how deep you put 5 meo in your ass. Set: normal mood. was not afraid at all. Setting: 20 hour fasting. Had a shit 1 hour before. 7 mg hcl rectal (administered it standing, put it inside my ass up to the 0,4 ml mark), waited for 15 seconds and then sat on a stool. Eyes opened. Trip: Effects came much much faster than the last try I plugged 7 mg. In my last try where I put the syringe too deep up to the 0,6 ml mark I felt nothing at all. Now effects came after 40 seconds. It was an ugly feeling mixed with fear, then the heart beat was rising again and I was breathing faster. It was unpleasant so I closed my eyes because there I can concentrate more on my rapid breathing. I wanted to slow it down but then I realized I cannot control my breath in this situation very much. It was just so rapid and heavy so I let it be. After 2 minutes this heart beating and heavy breathing was over. I opened my eyes. I looked at the wall but it was a little strange like I could see the air in the room? Is this common on 5 meo? But this was too subtle so I dont know if It was just imagination. After some minutes a little wave of bliss came ( but not so strong, like after a good meditation I get these too). This was pleasant and lasted for 5 minutes.

Yes! Of course! I had an awakening that totally fucked up my life, bliss states for days, incredible realizations, inexplicable events, etc. All of that though, was the result of letting go, the "awakening" was nothing, a non-event sandwiched between batshit crazy event + intuition, and batshit crazy + bliss, realization. The realizations themselves were just sudden awareness OF things I was holding on to. I had no control over it happening. It didn't happen to anyone. When questioned (mostly) everything VeganAwake saying is right. I was there, I was going to take Eckhart Tolle's present moment with me to my grave, holding on to it. This really is a hilarious predicament. It's NOTHING. NOTHING! It's THIS!

Growing confusion and "lostness" is a sign of growth, and infact should be expected. Infact, if you aren't confused, I'd be worried haha. When the confusion gets metaphysical it becomes more and more beautiful and pleasure filled. I think how it's meant to work is, the confusion increases and eventually gives birth to silence, then as that silence grows peace grows more and more then it gives birth to bliss and you just fall into the bliss forever and forget all seeking, which is of course only appropriate *after* these levels of development have been achieved. I can't wait lol The mistake is when someone chooses to stop seeking. The discovery should be so ground-breakingly powerful that you stop seeking by accident

@Winny be verrrrry careful my friend. There is an ASTONISHINGLY HUGE difference between *believing* this and *realising* this. Believing: - a small sense of increases knowledge - new thoughts by which you operate - a changed mental standpoint. [Deep] Realization: - you become fully and literally immortal forever - all of reality falls around you as huge degrees of confusion and ecstasy meet - you a thrown into a new world of tangible pleasure and beauty, the likes of which you could never have imagined. - thoughts and reality merge and you become Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Allah all at the same time in an explosion of infinity...bliss is your new world.

Maybe a purpose to live into is to help awaken others so they too can experience the wonderful love and bliss you’ve felt. In that way you’ll be doing “God’s work.”

Hey I was promised bliss and eternal happiness not fear and death. I got ripped off.....

It was years ago but I had a bliss kind of thing happen the next morning after I had my wisdom teeth out. Thought it was the pain meds but, no, it was some sort of short lived after effect from the anesthesia.

All the fear of this dream is revealed to be an illusion. We are talking about becoming God here - there is nothing bigger! You will know bliss like never before.

I think Osho said it best: Ignorance is Bliss! I guess you miss out then

??☮️ I envy those who can plug man. I cannot. Neither can I snort (I'm pretty sure). ...I haven't had any real bad experiences with 5meo yet. I don't expect it either, I expect a happy trip because when I do that I feel like it's more likely to happen. All I can remember is this realm I went to on 5meo where it was 150% pure bliss weighing heavily on me. I could feel this weight of waves of indescribable bliss hitting my face, it was so heavy I couldn't open my mouth. For me, I know which direction I'm heading especially in a DMT/5meo trip, I'd recommend to approach the pipe slowly, be comfortable with it's presence first. Sit with it, then in a state of positive thinking and visualisation, take the hit. Maybe this will push you in a slightly more pleasant direction like with myself. ?

@VeganAwake If there really is 'no one' "there" as you say, why is it so important for 'no one' to get confirmation from others if 'no one' is liberated or not? Another thought for who/what? 'No one', right? So if there is no one to be concious or unconscious of anything in the first place, why are you then asking these questions? When you say "conscious me", what do you mean exactly? Do you mean some part of the person/separate mind/'soul' - like personality, preferences, memories, habits, beliefs, ideas, knowledge, dreams, world-views? Because if that's what you're talking about with "conscious me" then of course that will die with the physical body, because both the physical body & the person-mind is not really *real* in the first place; it's just imagination. Only that which is actually *real* cannot die, because it was never born either. It has no form, no attributes, no limits and it's not dependent on anything (like "time" or "space" for instance). But everything else: e.g. time, physics, space, form, matter, objects, physical reality, mind, thoughts, emotions, sensations, sense of self, sense of-no-self, ... IS dependent on it. What words would you use to describe that/it ?? (well knowing that it has no attributes and that all words used therefore are only pointers, nothing else). In other words: to you, what is that which is real and cannot die? What words will you use? Personally, I'd like to use the following words interchangeably: Consciousness, Love, God, The Absolute. These 4 words are all pointers to exactly the same thing, for me. It is what I am, ultimately. It is what you are, ultimately. It's all One (Oneness could be a 5th word). It is what just is beyond the body, beyond the apparent external world, beyond the apparent separate mind/persona. We could call it Pure Being as well (6th word, hello). It is not just beyond everything, it is also the source & substance of everything. It is also that which experiences everything (body, mind, world, etc.) ... It is that which imagines everything/all forms into existence ... out of itself ... to itself ... by itself. There is nothing else than it. Nothing is outside of it. And nothing is inside of it either, because The Absolute is infinite,... so it has no inside, no outside. It just is what actually IS. So all 'illusory things' (body, mind, other humans, the physical world, space, time, matter) are ALSO *that*. Nothing is not that and simultaneously it is nothing either. The real, unreal. The unreal, real. Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. That is why I told you to go out and look on the sky and take a talk while enjoying the sun and some music. Cos that is fucking IT. There is nothing else than THAT. (All my and your word games here are just pure fucking nonsense-conceptual-bullshit, ultimately speaking). Eckhart Tolle talks a lot about it. He calls it "The Now" / "The Present Moment" (7th word, hello). “Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to “die before you die” and find that there is no death.” What Tolle means by this, is simply that all that really exists is The Now. It is what you are. The Present Moment is all you got - it is you! The Now is eternal and infinite. It was never born, it will never die. It is nothing and everything at the same time. The Now is pure bliss in its essence. It is Samadhi. Samsara is seen to be Nirvana itself. The very world we walk on is seen to be Heaven. World, Heaven. Heaven, world. Nirvana, Samsara. Samsara, Nirvana. It's all ONE. (Non-duality 101, remember). Jesus said it: "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you". When you see this -- no, feel this, more importantly -- that all dualities collapse into each other (right in front of your eyes, and inside you, too); that is when I'd say 'a person' is truly awakened, although you are also right: it happens to 'no one' ... because 'no one' is exactly what God / The Self / Love / Consciousness / The Absolute *is*. You see? It is no one. It is not WaveInTheOcean, it is not Trump, it is not Leo, it is not VeganAwake, it is not any body, any words, any thoughts, any emotions, it is not any thing; it is nothingness..., and therefore by the virtue of being nothing, it is simultaneously also everything, you see ?? (( But remember: words are still only pointers. Don't get stuck in believing in words/concepts. Replacing concepts with direct experience is the biggest trap in this work )) So after the body dies, all that will go on living eternally is that which already were eternal. No one. God. Love. Consciousness. Whatever you wanna call it. It is YOU (ultimately) and it is ME ultimately (not as the separate selfs we can think we are, no no, I should have made that clear by now). We could also use a 8th word: The Self (Sri Ramana Maharshi liked to call 'it' that). Consciousness / The Self / 'no one' / "spaghetti monster" / Love / God is that which imagines the body and the mind. It is that which is playing it is a separate self, i.e. a human being. It is that which imagines thoughts, imagines feelings, imagines 'other', imagines 'self, imagines 'no one', imagines 'God', imagines 'love', imagines monters, dragons, stones, physics, time, space, all possible words, concepts and sensations. In other words, that which is wearing the mask will remain infinite and eternal after the mask dies (mask = body/person-mind/memories). You see? <3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From another thread: Who/what then recognize that recognition of <there's no one' here> ??? ... No one? But who/what then recognizes that the recognition of <there's no one here> is recognized by no one? ... No one ? But ... and you see where I'm going with this ... <3 Again, let me quote you here: Who has received confirmation? You say that there are no one 'here', right? And yet, you are also saying that no one then went over to some other 'enlightened masters' to get confirmation that there truly were no one 'here'? . How did that go about, really? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I do understand what 'Liberation' is. It is a word. Like 'boobs' or 'underwear'. Could it be ---- just be open to this possibility; as you say, we should practice unknowing ---- that it is not "no-one/God/Consciousness" through the WaveInTheOcean-avatar who is stuck in concepts from others, but that it is instead "no-one/God/Consciousness" through the VeganAwake-avatar who is stuck in concepts from others, such as from "Liberation Unleashed Guides" ?? I read the guides you linked to, and they all seemed fine and full of spiritual wisdom (to me, probably not to my dad or mother), but they are still just meaningless words on their own. Don't trust or look at the "words / the finger pointing to" ..... but instead trust "your own direct experience / the moon". Bless you brother And by the way, I don't care if any people in my life or on this forum consider me awakened or not. All I want for my friends, family and all people in this world, including you, is the same that I have received in form of lasting peace, love and happiness*. To be actual happy is really all that matters, and I really want all others to be happy, cos all others are me. I'm just very egoistical, you see? I want myself to be happy at all times. I just know 'myself' is not just WaveInTheOcean's private mind, but every single other mind in the whole multiverse. They are me. So to answer my question: I couldn't be less curious what others think of me. What I know is my own inner subjective experience. I don't need others to validate anything in me. I am complete. You can call me misslead or self-fooled or awakened or enligthened. What does it matter, what words you and others project onto me? Nothing. It really changes nothing inside me. Inside me there is only peace and happiness and love to self and other. It is not dependent on any validation or anything. I don't know if I'm liberated (by your book), and I couldn't care less. For what it is worth, my best friend since childhood called me "legendary" two days ago at a party when he was drunk (I wasn't, I'd never want to be drunk again, no point anymore for me... I am already drunk and high on life sober). He said I was the most fantastic and unique human being he had ever met. LOL. I told him I loved him too, haha. He's cute and such a nice friend. Not spiritual at all, unfortunately. But you can't force friends. Show, don't tell. Let's see where's he's at in 10 years;D ... In 2 weeks I'm going to a cottage with him and my little brother and another really close friend (they are both much more spiritual) and we are all going to take a bit of 2C-B and/or shrooms. Hopefully, my good non-spirutal friend will soon be on the path, but if not, that is also fine. He's already ultimately perfect, just like everything else. It just saddens me to see people -- i.e myself -- suffer. * It did come at a price two years ago though, where I was in such a deep 'victim-poor-little-me-depression' that I almost killed myself (everything was planned, just couldn't do the last step of actually jumping due to the love towards my family). I still get close to tears when I think about the contrast of that period of my life (felt like an eternal bad nightmare LSD trip) to my current state of mind / life, and how close I was to ending it (all imagination, though, so maybe I did end it in another dream, but luckily not in this dream, ehehe). But as Jesus once said: "The heavenly highs you are capable of reaching, are proportional with the unacknowledged abyss you have the courage to sink down to." ... or maybe it was someone else who said it.

I did sort of work up to those doses 100-200-500-1000 was the progression which is super idiotic buuuuut my memory is kinda hazy for the night. I went to the bathroom when it hit, went to my friend and said I don't think ill like it. Tried to puke and I got so hot I had to run outside to cool down. He sat out there with me, I was laying in the driveway, him watching over me my mind completely overrun. Visuals taking over my vision..it felt intelligent. Like buddhist monks, I saw time itself. Once I came down we came back in the house and laid down. My come down was an instant realization of "oh my god, everything is one" and I was filled with bliss by this realization. I told my friend I think this would be a very important moment. And to this day, that night started my true journey. I heard people talking so much "crazy shit" them telling me to just do more lsd well it took 1000ug to break me out of my rational-scientific-logical restraints. Don't recommend, but its one hell of a path.

"Ego is illusionary but it is in the body as thoughts and contractions in the body. After awakening seeking stops and the practice changes to untangle these contractions within the body. By doing that these contractions start to fade away and the ego diminishes. It becomes more and more subtle." Thoughts are not a problem. Contractions, sure. Ego is that. It's tension. A background feeling of fear, lack all the time. "The separation is gone but the separate self energy or contractions in the body remains." Seperation is gone, conceptually, but not emotionally, is that what you're saying? Then you are awakened in mind, but are not fully there yet, in regards to heart. Awakening of heart = inner peace 24/7, pure bliss, no worries, free expression of Love I mean, I am awakened/liberated beyond doubt, hehe, but I still function as a humen being, as you can see, I am writing meaningless words to you. I still like blueberries over raspberries. I still prefer quality toilet paper over rough toilet paper. i still prefer beautiful girls over ugly girls in regards to who I'd like to have sex with. etc etc. I still have ego, you see? Ego is not a problem. Not being conscious of ego is a problem, tho, relatively speaking. But as you say, the tension, the contractions in body and mind of being a separate self that could die, yes, I know these, I had them all my life -- they aint nice --, and they disappeared 1 month ago after a deep 2cb-trip where I cried 4 hours straight by realizing I was God and that I'd always been God. (=Love). So in that sense I have died before I have died. There is no fear of death anymore, no background fear at least. Of course if a bear crawled into my bedroom I'd probably scream and jump out of the window. As I said, free expression, no resistance. Depression is the opposite of free expression, and in that sense we could say 90%+ of all human ppl are depressed. they just dont know it.

Where? Death to who? Let's be real. Death is death is biological death. I can put a knife in your heart and your body dies. That's death. So I'm very glad to hear that this has not happened! lol Of course, you may be talking about ego-death. But ego-death is such a funny concept, because there is no self that can die in the first place. Ego-death to me just refers to the dissolving of all bondaries between what you used to call 'me' and 'other.' Or we could call ego-death pure being without any sense of self, any thoughts, just pure being, pure bliss. Of course 'the sense of a separate self' as a feeling is very real for 99% of people. That sense of separate-selfness can die. It has died for me, but not to you? Is that what mr. A-cba-to-learn-to-spell-that-name is talking about?

Do you mean thoughts? Or only identification with thoughts? Thoughts are never a problem. Thoughts are Love like everything that else that arises. Thoughts are (like everything else) qualia-like-subjective-experiences put into you by The Universe/Love/God/The Self/Your True Self/"No One" . Thoughts are amazing man. I love all my thoughts. All of them. I didn't do that pre-awakening, necessarily. Again, the problem is only identifcation with thoughts, taking them seriously, believing they are your own doing, believing they tell something absolutely true. They never do. Thoughts are just play man, Love, play. Enligtenment is not equal to a state of no-thoughts. That is a trap to believe that. The funny thing is, though, that when you love all your thoughts and stop worrying about them, then you can easily focus on the present and immerse yourself in it and no thoughts will come, but only pure bliss. As long as you believe thoughts are a problem -- eg. when meditating -- they will keep coming, you can be sure of that lol!