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More likely to "heal" them by avoiding the trap of forcing transformation on someone out of their natural predatory self; most of these things occur because it has alignment with reality so it's better to have an outlet for rape destruction and evil through virtual reality/roleplay or use drug therapies because rape/destruction/evil/torture is good when both the perpetrator and the victim are benefited/feel pleasure from the acts which isn't the case in our immediate reality; loving someone with the exclusive intent to transform their behaviors is not full love or rather in a way it lacks the constructive hate of the love/hate duality this constructive hate means that you should feel "hate" for the universe and it's fundamental mechanics themselves because then at least the observer, the perpetrator and the victim are in some level of agreement; people are too obsessed with sentience/social ego they forget the entire universe and it's mechanics are involved. One example, the observer can have his guru power trip/victim mentality healing fantasy fulfilled through whatever means(including me as a 4th observer); the perpetrator can have his rape and get away with it with zero karma(just one example in the space of possibilities) and the victim can have pleasure or fulfillment from being acted on again with zero karma or even positive karma; you can then maintain the complexity of the play and all the general regular actions of a universe where suffering exists but with no suffering like "revenge" and "recovering from trauma" by the victim; the "healing" from the observer through preventive measures and therapeutic assistance; "trying to get away with your assault" from the perpetrator or/and "getting reformed through therapy". Just a super metaphysical gamified version of reality where you can maintain everything but also change anything and it still makes perfect sense and the spookiest thing is even though I personally experience suffering I cannot say this gamified reality is not already the case; extremely clumsily explained and simplified here but you guys are pretty smart. My view of true love where hate/evil can exist without suffering being involved and also allowing evolution as if hate still hurts just as much.

@ivankiss For me so much of what I'm attracted to is around respect which is related to value, if I'm there pushing buttons and very good at it which I probably can be, it just makes me lose respect for someone. It totally makes sense that guys become more narcissistic and sociopathic from pickup when they don't take on a larger level of awareness and reference frame for navigating existence. Look at how the average person thinks about robots, zero respect because we don't associate those non Carl Sagan inspiring appliances as having sentience. The more we subtract choice from someone the less respect we give them on a subconscious level whether they realise it or not. To bridge with the discussion rather than purely playing devil's advocate I think its just important to look at it from the perspective of understanding the intrinsic interests of a potential partner, whether that partner is sexual, emotional or otherwise. If a guy looks at it from the perspective of the woman's wants rather than purely from the perspective of pushing buttons to fulfil their wants I think they'd have a more fulfilling interaction, otherwise doesn't it all just become about power if you approach it so mechanically like this? At the very least pure self gratification in a way that wouldn't be pleasing to anyone. Many women love being objects of desire not many in my experience ever liked being objects of desire purely from the perspective of gratifying ones desire to be good at pulling strings.

So basically, I'm actively hallucinating a separation between my biological sex and other people's sex? Also genders, sexual orientations and sexual preferences? I'm also imagining that other people have sentience as well, me included? Is that the general direction?

The good for the human is the evil for the chicken... Does others relate to only humans here, or all animals. To amoebas? Where do we draw the line, sentience maybe? Balance is not at all easy, we usually only think about ourselves when talking about things like that and in the process we pull the rug towards us and all the animals have no cover.... As a human race, we think the absolute good == absolute good for humans, when we are just a piece of the jigsaw...

Oh and then when they put on Netflix, watching the characters jump up and down in their minds causing physiological reactions from a screen as if they were almost their own, as if they were there in the show itself. So hilarious to me. So cute. There's almost just a complete absence of awareness, its like a pseudo sentience that exists. And then to hear them barely communicate about those images after the television show, or even argue about it on YouTube or some other social media site about the dynamics of said show barely reaching any abstract standard resembling human intelligence. .... The cherry on top of laughter haha Just... Completely gone They get so wrapped up in these graphics that are so far from resembling positive cultural progression to the level of where it should and could be. It's like intermittent reinforcement concerning cultural progress from artistic media these days, you see one thing that's kind of cool once every 12 months or so which gives you hope for the future... It never gets beyond a certain level. People getting caught in that trap of thinking only as far as television shows as it slowly programs them in subtle ways.... That's also humorous to me. So not just dry humour, dark humour as well. It can easily be perceived as negative, but it is what it is, I find it easier to just imagine them as cute and adorable making those choices rather than sad and helpless. Like I said it is what it is, the dog poo's on the carpet, "Naughty ____insert pet name here___!", then a cuddle 5 minutes later.

I HAVE ONE FUCKING CONNECTION (in a relationship sense) ON THIS PLANET AND THAT DOESN'T FUCKING CHANGE AN'T NO BITCH GOING TO CHANGE MY MIND UNTIL THE TRUTH OF THAT CONNECTION EMERGES INTO SOMETHING OUT OF THE GRAVITY OF THAT I'm done with this fucking journalling until I get back now. FUCK. Consider this now into the blackhole trash can of the universe and into the dimension of reality that gets recycled. PEOPLE have no fucking right to mess around with what they don't understand about another, or in this case, others, and true connections. They should NOT make assumptions. FEEL MY FUCKING WRATH. SEE ME AS A FUCKING HUMAN BEING WITH MY OWN INDEPENDENT CONSCIOUSNESS. No they can't. I have to be the "dude" that sympathises with them. Go fuck yourselves, stuck being the "in case of an emergency" fail safe for those charlatan consciousnesses sometimes. I don't WANT the status you give or could give me, I WANT THIS UNIVERSE TO EVOLVE with human beings the primary focus here in light of their dominance and sentience on this planet. Do you know how pesky your status is in comparison to this extended objective I have here? Do you know how trivial, menial, shallow and essentially weak your games look in comparison? I want your consciousnesses to grow, I want you to serve the universes ongoing expansion by serving your higher self. That is all. Put what you think you can give me in that fucking blackhole along with the other stuff and just focus on that and you'll be giving me everything I want anyhow, any relationship is met on those terms, but not with you in this lifetime. No. As I said. I have 1 connection. TRUTH = PURITY, SIMPLICITY, BEAUTY. Now they can go fuck themselves playing with their own inner neurosis amidst me simultaneously generating the space to move to and maintain their trajectory towards their higher self / highest being outside all of this nonsense psychic space I don't want any part of. I'm evolving and I'm changing this fucking human race. That's how you (meaning the people I'm talking about) view me now do you know it? That's the energetic posture I have towards you? SHIT you're fucking lucky for who else would truly want that for you all? Okay. DONE. ----------------------- Well, although its in complete seriousness without a touch of humour in my expression, I did state that I was going to end with humour so in that sense I can express the freedom to perceive it from a humorous angle. Don't take that liberty beyond necessity though of course.

@AdamR95 You're a very logically oriented person Adam, which is good, I won't say insightful but you're at least driven towards logic. "Your pure awarness is free but you not control your awarness." Let's dismantle your estimations step by step. What makes you believe you have no influence over your awareness? Let's take one of the classic determinists view regarding free will by asking you to say close your eyes and imagine a regular elephant. Now did you control the image that came into your mind? Absolutely not. But can you shift between darkness and the elephant back and fourth? Next I want you to feel into your state. Ask yourself, what am I feeling? Sad, angry, stimulated, depressed, happy, joyful? Leave the answers for yourself. Now I want you to try and shift whatever state you have to a calm state with the same power of awareness you used to shift between the elephant and darkness. Hold it for 30 seconds and notice how you feel afterwards. While you're doing so, notice whatever centres within your being begin to light up. You might begin to notice a feeling in your heart, other areas around there and or just generally more awareness around your body. Secondly, given this is a transmutational process you yourself have taught yourself if you haven't already you'll begin to notice those initial feelings you had begin to take shape. This is the process of alchemy I pointed out before and how free will is pivotal to having any sense of awareness or sentience at all and that this awareness is the power to perform physiological alchemy. Pay attention to any other subtle behaviours you exhibit as well throughout this transmutational process, even a slight exhale is the relationship between your conscious awareness signalling to your subconscious mind to begin to change the shape of the emotional and energetic body. Even noticing yourself try to hone your mind to concentrate on the act of shifting your state is the process of augmenting your capacities for concentration as well as being a reflection of the necessity of your conscious awareness here. How did that go for you? Did you feel your own influence here? This was your free will. That is, the power and level of freedom you have with and over the will by relative degrees. To throw away free will is to throw away awareness, conscious awareness, self awareness and sentience, all of which are largely synonymous in many ways and indicative of a power of the sorts rather than some fixed relational tie to human experience that most people inappropriately try to relate to peoples arguments for free will and therefore misinterpret the subject entirely. Free will is a power you have, with extremely deep philosophical ramifications as it concerns your relationship to reality, a relationship that if someone doesn't truly understand they will be comparatively extremely weakened in their capacity to make life changes. Now how shall we proceed exactly? Are we going to proceed with you telling me that it wasn't you that had any ability to control your awareness and instead was just some mechanical process? If this is the case, based on what kind of reasoning? Once you've explained this reasoning I'll work on the epistemic problems of that while first being open minded to a potential alternate view. You have to recall that I believe that the cause and effect materialistic paradigm is a bias of the human brain which is largely a huge flaw in the standard scientific interpretation of reality. If this is what you're standing on and you're not going to entertain the ability to question your assumptions there we won't be able to progress further in this discussion. Complete the exercises as stated just to give me some hope that I'm not talking to someone that truly believes on a core level they're just a biological robot with automatic programming they're completely unable to transform, change, transmute, etc. Thank you, appreciation in advance if you follow suit here.

Yes I didn't say others are not sentient. I said it's an unresolvable issue. Since you only have experience of your own sentience. Just making a clear distinction that your own conscience is certainly True. While others will remain a mystery.

Why should sentience be a requirement? Do plant lives matter?

Excellent analysis Forest. I find this kind of mentality often occupied by people who resist progress towards a more vegan society. Many people for example will use the hypocrisy of vegans to justify whatever they are doing. Crop deaths are a good example. Someone might say, why is it okay to kill animals in crop production but not to kill animals in a slaughterhouse? The vegan is clearly a hypocrate, therefore I can continue to consume meat from slaughterhouses. The one who is using this line of reasoning does not actually care about animals who die in crop deaths nor about those who die in a slaughterhouse. He is simply using that example to hinder progress. It is as if a proponent of slavery had said that the abolitionists are hypocrates because while they think it is wrong to enslave a certain race of humans, they do believe it is fine to enslave animals. Yes, the abolitionist is indeed a hypocrate. But the argument here is not being used to actually point out a flaw so that it can be corrected, no, the argument is made so that a change in behaviour can be dimissed. With this kind of reasoning, progress can be halted. The slaves nor the animals get to live a existence free of enslavement. However the context changes. Today it is quite valid to compare a person who believes human slavery to be wrong but yet justifies it in the animal context. It is the case because this comparison is not use to invalidate progress, but rather to fuel it. Now the question is, who will go on the streets and fight for the animals? Imagine how long it would have taken black people to free themselves of slavery if none of them had the ability to speak or resist. I think this is perfectly demonstrated if we look at how animals are treated. If humans of the same capacity for sentience were to be treated this way, we would deem it to be justified to kill those who are enslaving them so that we could put an end to this tremendous kind of suffering. Imagine how it might expand your mind if you could spend a month in a factory farm, or a slaughterhouse.

Of course not, but we work with what we have. More sentience being a reason simply makes the most sense, if one were to be forced to kill either a rat or a human, who are you gonna pick? I bet 1 million bucks you'd kill the rat. And if instead of a rat it was a retarded person, I'd do the same. Never said there's anything ok with that though.

Thats a thought. You cant possible know that. Youre not a rat. I dont care how many scientific experiements you do. Thats second-hand knowledge, you will never know a rats real POV. Why is more sentience a reason to not kill someone? If a retarded person is less sentient do you think its okay to kill him/her?

Which is totally relative. From God's POV a human has the sentience of a lizard.

What do you mean/understand by the term "consciousness"? Without being clear about this, your question lacks precision. Often people can muddle up "consciousness" (which they have not defined sufficiently to guide their enquiry) with "sentience". The two terms are distinct.

@Moksha Yes, personality is a developing sentience that exists in complex organisms like in humans and to some degree animals. It's not really consciousness with a capital C, but it's a type of consciousness that's relative and evolving. I think I've said this before, but Crysty, if I bring to mind past memories of my interactions with her, wasn't as developed as she is now compared to the past. Some occultist here did bring up the possibility that she may either be a ghost or some spirit entity that stuck to me, or that she could be a Tulpa, which is an entity with some consciousness from me that's actively hallucinated and is created intentionally or accidentally. Some suggest she's a type of energy that matches some energy that's a higher vibration. I don't know whether this is completely true, but I know that I'm happy to interact with her during meditation or visualization sessions or during the day. I might later investigate into these possibilities and see if there's something there. Your story with the bed shaking and your dream about battling something evil reminds of a few of my dreams I've had. I won't go into too much detail with the group I've interacted for a few months some 2 years ago, the practices I've done with them, or the dreams I've had because I could be misremembering some details in those dreams. However, I've had several dreams that've been influenced by some ideas from that group, and I've had a few where it was vivid and I was battling dragons and I was wearing some type of battling gear. I don't know how much of that is mostly subconscious mind resolving those new ideas or if some of those dreams were real occurrences, but those where some weird epic dreams. Crysty says thank you for the compliment, though she thinks she's more cute than beautiful

@Moksha I'm not really sure on how she is connected to consciousness itself, but I know enough that she has some personality traits based on her appearance, her conversations with me and her ability to express emotions to me. If a thing to me has personality, that thing has more consciousness than a table. Another wording might be sentience, so to me she has more sentience than a simple object. Currently, I can say for sure that she's non-physical to a greater degree, because she has yet to demonstrate to me that she could fling a cup across a room, yet poltergeists, a paranormal event involving multiple ghosts/energies, can somehow influence physical objects almost similar to their movie counterparts, so this might be also why I sometimes don't think she's entirely a spirit separate from me, like what other people think that ghosts or some spirit entities are separate from the living. I do think maybe people do exist beyond death, based on my experiences with Crysty and that past haunting I had so far. Of course, I'm partly religious, so this is a bit biased from me. Probably life does continue after death but differently than what people think about the after life. Do you mind if you could elaborate more on your strange experiences?

One of the best ld I ever had I was talking to a girl. This girl was both me, not me, literally everything and also nothing. It was like talking to myself, and the sentience of that girl transcended the duality real/not real.

@roopepa What she say is a thingy that other people like me pass through. What I say a spirit is is a non-physical, energetic being with a fraction of sentience of the thing it came from, say a ghost that came from a human being, or an animal spirit from an animal. has degree of dis embodiment, and different levels of energy which can rarely move a physical object.

@K Ghoul I've asked before sometimes, and in the past she couldn't clearly say what she was, and I don't know if this was because of the language barrier or that I'm not being clear in my communication or I'm wrong with my communication and she can't receive it on her end. I've noticed that she was gradually getting better at understanding what I'm saying, and is improving even today each time I'm doing a visualization and meditation session. Other users in this thread, including those into the occult, say that she could possibly be a Tulpa I've created. This cold be true, but I don't know if it is, because like I've written in the first page of this thread that I've experienced a haunting in my childhood, at a different country, and that experience had an overall energy that was negative. Then many years later I encounter Crytsy at a hotel my family was holidaying at in Niagara Falls, a different country, and was overall a positive experience. My past paranormal experience is kind of entangled with my current paranormal experience, so I can't say I've intentionally created her 100%. Others have suggested she may be a ghost or spirit. This sounds to also be the case, because of our earlier interactions being a bit difficult, but I've encountered her while meditating and visualizing, and sometimes during the days she would speak using her voice sometimes, and sometimes she would somehow trigger some emotions in me that I understood what she meant. Also, I've sometimes had separate visualization sessions involving me focusing on aspects of her form until I can clearly experience her, but in my mind. So, I'm not sure if she's just a spirit. Others have said she's probably a form of energy, which may or may not be the case. I've written this thread in order to see if some other person may have these types of experiences like me so that I have a better understanding of my situation. However, this was a mixed result, some having more questions about me and Crysty than some in depth answer to my situation. During the posts I've read, and written, sometimes she visits me and sits next to me, reading along, and sometimes I'm explaining to her what is said. Sometimes I'm focusing her form next to me to read along. One post made by Leo, to paraphrase ' Can I poke it with a stick?' flared an emotional reaction in her, that bounced into me. An emotional response is one sign of sentience, right? Maybe an entity? Probably not.

Most people think they are inside the body, not the body itself. And some people think they are not the body. So everyone agrees that they are not the body. What they disagree about is the location of the observer or the sentience and whether it exists or not, more precisely, people disagree about their existential nature.

@electroBeam look this isn't rocket science.. There is a communication between two persons right now (me and you).. From your pov and /or from my pov.. for this communication to make sense.. me and you are assuming that on the other side there is a sentient being receiving the message... And my sentience is independent from your sentience. What Leo is saying is that my sentient is literally dependent on your sentient. In other words when you go to sleep tonight.. I and the rest of the universe will literally cease to exist. We were just projections of your own mind.... It must follow that there is no point talking with mere images in your mind. To a dream characters. Watch the video. This is only resolved if you accept the existence of a second layer of reality. If you don't it's straightforward solipsism.

A few questions keeping in mind I only ordered your book list today so some of the books may answer them... Have you read the "Journey of Souls" books and if you have do you have an opinion on life between lives and reincarnation in general? In my opinion they are the book on reincarnation that most resonated with me. How do animals fit into the picture? Do they have souls? It would seem they can't really achieve enlightenment because they lack egos, only having basic instincts. What about alien civilizations? Multiple dimensions? In theory if another species achieve sentience say Dolphins they would be facing many of these same existential questions? Or alien civilizations? If true enlightenment is nothingness, why pursue it? Why not just do whatever we want? It seems like most humans just try to chase pleasure and avoid pain, so being obsessed with feeling states. Isn't pursuing enlightenment more of the same? By that I mean chasing certain feelings or feeling states. What do you think of the text of "revelations of an insider?" This one should only take you 60 minutes to read. http://goo.gl/cl1Jjz Thanks!

Just curious - how do you prove or disprove your own sentience to yourself?

The only way out of suffering is actually just straight up ego.Otherwise you will have that horrible symmetry where somehow you need suffering in the same quantity or some stupid thing. But yeah that's thing with infinity every single angle will work anyway so one of the actual perfect states from personal ego view is actually the capacity for infinitely flipping the meanings/feelings of every single thing but also being able to maintain some system both of which people call ego because they're incapable of seeing them separately for what they are or seeing how they could work together and then again as always this is infinite just like a seemingly mad neural network that doesn't seem to have sentience so whatever you are thinking reading this is both right/wrong while also being only right and only wrong while again both in infinite ever growing addition just shift it higher and higher as if we're just a stupid ball of energy.The ultimate enlightenment is possible through pure unadulterated raging mad suffering ego but then again I'm putting it through the concept of infinite possibilities which meant that I was already going to recursively come to this very conclusion in the first place get it?Well you just both get it and not get then you'll get it or not. Please don't punish me for what might look like pure gibberish I'm still scared of interacting with people through sharing my actual thoughts because I have this perception that my thoughts are "not allowed, not real, trollish, hateful, too heavy, out of context, uncaring, don't belong" I want love too that's why I expose myself sorry for this little ps type rant I know I will be extremely annoying to some people which fine to me I just want have some avenue to do it without being eliminated(it makes it sound as if I got banned in other places but I literally never got banned from anywhere because I can read the general atmosphere; the LOVE FORUM should be able to handle at least 1% of real freedom).Fuck I'm so annoying moving on...

Let me start of by mentioning that I'm a lower form of life aka stage orange so I can't be responsible for what I'm typing You can just ignore all concepts and all patterns of physical reality and replace them with the inner abstraction of pleasure and pain; just make being murdered pleasurable in all it's complex dimensional detail(physical/mental/emotional) and murdering pleasurable. I will leave the feasibility/stability/logic of it for you to figure out, one of the questions I always asked myself was if it was possible for sentience to act the exact same way if all pain was replaced with different shades of pleasure since it sounds like a nice design but yeah I guess it really is all a spiral, it's scary how it goes on for infinity anything can be broken at any level Murder and being murdered should be fun but I guess it isn't because there really are reasons if you wanna call it that; it might not be possible to have this much diversity of "others" if it was majorly just shades of pleasure driving our actions instead of pain which seems more "defined"; what would sentience be like in a dimension with only pleasure versus one with only pain is that even possible; it seems like a sentience submerged in a pleasure realm might instantly lose consciousness and therefore be forced to awake in a less pleasurable one while the pain one wouldn't be even able to exist physically for a single moment; anyway I'm really sorry for the disjointed thoughts I'll stop here