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What you mean by "finally collapses too"? I can meditate and i really don't know why, but i fear loosing myself completely but also there is, like you said, a bliss state that can emerge and im afraid. What is this sense of bliss? what is your experience? Isn't that ego?

I need to share this. One morning I woke up, during the sunrise and as I looked at the sky I said I wanted to know the Truth. A few seconds later my dad’s favourite song got played out of nowhere. The first few lines of the song said “Love will find the way”. My dad wasn’t there, no one was. It was in Chittagong, my birthplace near the hospital I was born in. This was one of my DEEPEST AWAKENINGS with no substance. Pure love, bliss.

@mandyjw i realize that there is a sense of bliss in the total surrender but also fear. But this is allright. Yeah i can see how if i meditated for example i could see the image in front of my eyes as void and indescribable. Also there is a sense of wander "wow. What is this?... Wow... What is this?!" like "i" am seeing it for the first time.... Was that also your experience? Mm.. Like there is not a brain so i get it that it's just a story. But leo, when "i" close my eyes and the body goes to "sleep" what the fuck happends there? (just to be clear, im comparing the state of sleep with the death of the body) In the sense that it's a story. Right? Something that the "i" believes. Allright. Yes exactly. I wanted to hang myself or shoot myself. I called my mom and told her for the first time i was going through "a tough time" and cryied in front of her. I held her hand trying to "please feel like she exists". Really believed i had to go to a psychiatric hospital. But nobody would understand and nobody could help me. But i've gone through that now. And was able to stop and keep my mental sanity so to say ahaha. Yes awakening is something else... To be clear, i never had a god realization and don't know if it's true what you say Here. But, i don't know if i agree with you here... After all reality is me and i am reality. So if somebody helps me it's like im helping myself no? Leo, i believe you also meditated with someone for guidance, red books or had mentors or somebody that you trusted. Especially when you go through a tough time to be fair. What if i loose my mind doing this? There is nobody i could compare my experience to! Also, is a state of bliss awakening or is it just ego? What's your experience? When i talked about annihilation there also is a sense of bliss... But im skeptical here when talking about something that is too good to be true.

Yeah, the collapse of the collapse is bliss. If you want to imagine wreckage and void, go for it I guess. When that finally collapses too, it'll just seem all the more amazing.

Never-ending love We’ve been doing this for eternity... Loving ourselves Infinitely Endlessly... Beingness The gentle pain of existence Softly caresses the echoes of your heart And when you feel tired It turns and hugs As the shiver on your skin Giving you a kiss The curse of that endlessness An infinite desire from separateness Taking a lifetime of beingness To give you the love from wholeness I sometimes feel All of my life in one single undivided moment All the emotions All the beauty All the love All the pain At once... Sacred tree Sacred tree Sitting alone In a dream Its arms folding Onto the beams of light The dream is asleep It speaks a thousand tongues In and out of its being Through the blood it drank In this realm of beauty Being a part of grace It seeps into you and me Fueling the voices of our pain The sacred tree speaks... It was once nothing Through the endless being It became something Nonduality, duality Existence and essence All are moving and being Living and dying Loving and hating Without time The gift The gift Of existence Something we granted ourselves It is through eternity That we see the bliss in mortality It is through difficulties That we can love without pain It is from the words that we sang That we hear the truth speak In silence We see the lives of infinite beings Living Through the cycles of love and pain And being aware of here We felt the love from that sacred place Speaking, without a word Being, love. Transcendence The bell rings at the wake of dawn Singing the echo of that holy song Where in this moment we shall sit And await the presence of next gong The wind is howling about a secret Of the magical beauty in the now As it flew, it kissed my skin And took away all my wrongs The drum beating in my chest Speaking the words of divine love Where no mind nor thoughts, Can disturb this song I am... Nothing more

I can't experience it looking a wall. I experience it smoking 5 meo, when the thought stops, there is not you anymore, no time, no space, nothing. No love, no bliss, no wonderful being, absolute nothing, but the nothing is alone. So the nothing is. I'd like to make possible go so deep without any substance, but seems impossible

I've just gone down in fewer and its effect on energy is astonishing. First it removed my identification and connection with body, mind and energy. With that there was not much thought, feelings and my senses had gone down. Energy was also very limited and the production of energy low. Would it even be possible to be blissful in such a state. Yes being fully present is even easier but there are not much of any emotion and there's a headache to make the experience of no joy. In the end does your experience of life all come down to energy? Can't you experience something more in such a depressive state? For example what if someone had this chronically and wouldn't be able to cure it. What would be the meaning of their life when there is no energy to do so much as feel a little bit of joy? I've heard and experienced not to give attention to strengthen the consequence of a state of being which can be an emotion (ecstasy). But instead give attention or strengthen the state which causes that emotion. So I easily let go of my mind and body but no energy formed to bring me to such states of blissful body. Is there something I did wrong? Or is this just the cause of invading viruses. I've claimed that I did awaken not long ago when I could just let go of ego and immerse myself in a life altering experience. But the experience wasn't anything particular now in sickness, everything just became very still, but what is the meaning of such a boring experience where there's not enough energy for much consciousness or attention to be used. I wonder what is even the meaning of being on this world. If not to serve the world, because what else would you do when every other aspect of life is fulfilled. Then it doesn't really matter if I experience bliss body or not during sickness. Because bliss bodys function normally would be to continue this life purpose to a higher capability. And can be continued in sickness as well just not to the same extent that your being as able to the when you are healthy. Is this how it works? Btw I always get answers from within so I am not seeking anything from my questions particularly. Many on this forum takes my questions as things I can't or haven't answered for myself already and therefore belittles my knowledge or spiritual advancement, please aldo don't be too analytical of my sentences. They are written in a way for a reason. Thank you! Together we share knowledge/insights with the furum and help each others??

After a very potent psilocybin journey about a month ago, I've been in this phase where I don't really have a desire to change others. Maybe if someone punches me in the face, I'd want them to stop. I'm not talking about that necessarily. More like I no longer feel this burning desire to "save the world" and convince others to think, act or believe the ways I do. It's more like I'm living in a dream and am just witnessing everyone going about life to the best of their abilities. I wouldn't describe it as apathetic, because on a personal level I still want to act with love and the values that I feel personally called to live by, it's just that I'm less stressed about others doing so also. It's bizarre to feel this way especially amongst stage Green culture where everyone around me is trying to save the world and freaking out about other people's actions and words. Which all makes sense to me, I just don't resonate with the desire as strongly. My fear is that I'm somehow spiritual bypassing the world and stuck in my own little bubble of bliss while others suffer. But I guess my counter argument to this is that I still want to help people, it's just I only want to help those who want to be helped, not trying to force others to change. So in that sense, perhaps this is healthy? Wondering if others can relate with this, and if there's red flags with anything I've stated above. Thanks!

Ignorance is bliss until you hit the ground as Sadhguru says. Usually suffering is the biggest reason for people to find out about this path. And actually there is no such thing as unenlightenment, because that implies that there is a person who has to become enlightenment.

So I went for a walk in nature today and I regenerated a lot. The only worrying thing is that I got bullied a lot on the streets, nasty looks, buri nazar, envy, anger, frustration.. I feel empathy and brotherly love towards these people. I hope they find what they really need as soon as possible. I listened to some meditation music and I regenerated even more. But for some reason I realized God. And it was nice, because I dropped my BELIEF in God lately.... only to find myself opening my eyes see the real GOD. Then I realized non-existence. Not the first time I do, but this time it lasted a couple seconds longer. I felt pure bliss, I closed my eyes and dissolved into it. It was peaceful. This all happened in a few minutes after my meditation session. Today I didn't really do much work or chores. I cleaned my room, and I took a shower this morning. I went outside and I made drawings. I did my mantra practices. But most of my work was spirituality related. And calling it work seems kinda wrong, because it was more like play. I also got my books. And read a bit. I will now watch Leo's videos.

The first few months of my journy was awsome, then I hit my first ego backlash. After this my mood and life started fluctuate a lot more. Now my life in general consist of a couple of weeks feeling happy followed by a couple of days of an ego backlash ( down). Sometimes it can even be more up and down than that - where I can experience bliss and peace one day to then feel super anxious the next day ( spells of depression/ mood swings) My question is therefor, How often does ego backlash generally happen? What is your experience with ego backlashes? How do you guys motivate yourself when you experience mood swings going from high conciousness to low conciousness? P.s I meditate 40 min everyday + wim hof method.

It is my view that if one has even light trauma, it must be processed/balanced/integrated before everlasting happiness/bliss/peace may be remembered/realized/actualized. Some people can integrate trauma through their own process of meditation (or plant medicine / entheogens) however many humans will require help from an expert. This is my view. True unity is found when all lower blockage is cleared thus triumphing into the true Sunday (7th) achieving full coronation (crown chakra / pineal activation). We get glimpses of illumination on the path however often we are required to continue working in the lower before higher activation may occur.

@SonataAllegro Ask yourself why do you want to buy this book? The word 'Yoga' is derived from the Sanskrit root 'Yuj', meaning 'to join' or 'to yoke' or 'to unite', meaning that yoga is a practice to unite with the Source, Your Higher Self, The One, God or whatever you'd like to call it. There are many paths of yoga, for example. 1. RAJA YOGA Raja yoga focuses on meditation and contemplation in order to fully realize the self. Known as the royal (Raja) or king path of yoga, it is based on the eight-limbed path toward self-realization outlined in Patanjali’s Yoga Sutra, and tends to attract the more spiritually devoted practitioners. 2. BHAKTI YOGA Bhakti yoga is the path of devotion, emphasizing devotional love for and surrender to God, the Source or the One Creator. By seeing the Divine in everyone and everywhere, Bhakti yoga cultivates acceptance, tolerance, forgiveness and unconditional love for all beings. Bhakti yoga also involves a lot of chanting and kirtan (call and response) that evokes feelings of love, connection, and bliss. 3. JNANA YOGA Jnana yoga is the path of wisdom and knowledge (Jnana), involving a disciplined study of scriptures and constant inquiry into the nature of the self. Any form of study into the nature of the self or the truth of our existence will aid in reaching deeper states of you. Often called the yoga of the mind, Jnana yoga is well suited for the more intellectually inclined. 4. KARMA YOGA Karma yoga is the path of selfless action, the yoga of doing. Selfless service is the heart of karma yoga. Remaining completely detached from the outcome of their actions, Karma yogis are in continual service to the betterment of all beings with no intention of physical gain. Karma is fundamentally about learning lessons. One learns through positive action that as you help others, so are you helped. It’s a rewarding teaching mechanism in that sense. And one learns through negative action that as one hurts others, so are you hurt, in order to understand the consequences of your actions. Negative karma can be resolved by discharging the soul imprint through forgiveness and understanding. Karmic experiences can be prevented by understanding their core lessons before they are attracted. 5. MANTRA YOGA Mantra yoga is the yoga of sound. Considered sacred utterances, mantras are syllables, words, or phrases representing a particular attribute of the Divine. There are certain seed mantras that resonate with each of the unique energy centers or chakras. One of the most common mantras is ‘OHM’, which resonates with the foundational vibration of our existence. Mantra yoga is the practice of becoming centered through the repetition of mantras. 6. HATHA YOGA Hatha yoga, which most people think yoga to be these days, is the practice of yoga postures, or asanas, using the conscious combination of the breath and body movements to rise to higher states of clarity, groundedness and peace of mind. It sees the body as the primary vehicle for self-actualization and transformation. You also have your unique path. Know that your journey in life is absolutely unique to you and will most likely involve many of the aspects mentioned above. For example, you can simply imagine combining certain daily postures, with a mediation and/or contemplation practice, studying certain philosophies you resonate with, while also being compassionately proactive about helping or serving others. Hope this helps

I believe it to mastery of the self and your highest service. Once you realize that you truly expand, multiply and magnify Love, Light & Consciousness, both within and without, by serving others, and that ultimately service is the most beautiful thing there is, more satisfying than sitting in meditative bliss, your own will and your Higher Will align and you become a pure vessel of the One, automatically, seamlessly and magically driving you beyond your deepest dreams, highest potential and wildest expectations. Enjoy the ride!

Awesome! Hold your left hand out a bit with your palm up. Take some stomach breathes, relax the whole body, ‘let go’, and when you feel the energy tingling into the left palm, hold your right palm above each chakra, one at a time, from bottom to top, feeling the spinning. Feel the direction of the spin, and also you’ll notice a feeling as if a record spinning which is not perfectly flat, like an energetic record with energy ‘lumps’ brushing against the right palm. Spin counterclockwise with the intention of removing / emptying any ‘lumps’, and then clockwise, evening out the chakra by filling it with energy from your right palm. With practice you’ll feel the energy into the left hand...through your entire body...and then through the right hand, back into the body aligning the chakras in a more and more balanced yet energetically intense manor as you go. Then move both palms slowly from lowest to to highest chakra and feel all of them spinning clockwise together at the same speed. Feel the energy coming from below the body, up and out through the top of your head. Caution: bliss may ensue. Also, after aligning the chakras, with the left ‘receiving hand’ lightly make the ‘ok’ ?? hand gesture (with palm facing up), and feel how the energy changes in the sense it is more concentrated. Make the same gesture with the right hand, palm facing out / away, and with practice you’ll feel the entire body as if one whole chakra. Weird as it may sound, you’ll eventually (if not right away) feel around your body exactly as if it was your ‘regular’ body. (The aura)

Hi everyone, Very informative thread here. I've been experimenting with 5 for about 3 months now.. probably have done around 40 trips? at first I was using the mason jar method found on youtube and now have upgraded to the APX Volt which is such a great little device. Anyway, I'm writing this message to try and figure out my experience. I feel I haven't had a breakthrough experience and certainly not any where there is infinite bliss and love. My last 10 trips last around 20 - 30 minutes and are incredibly intense. The best way I can describe it is an indescribably fast zooming out of consciousness into an infinite white void. During the first 20 minutes, there is no absolutely no sense of self. My sense of ego slowly kicks in around the 20-25 minute mark and I manage to open my eyes and all I see is white. I try and look for my body and cannot see it. I try and breathe into my lungs and I cannot feel it. But slowly, "normal" reality starts to set in. This was quite frightening at first.. part of me wondering if I'll be stuck in this white void forever! haha. The main "realization" from these trips is being in awe of the magnitude of consciousness but I do not recall a sense of communing with an infinite power/love. It's a very pragmatic? logical kind of experience.. not very spiritual/mind fuckery-esque. Unfortunately I am unable to tell you the dosage I am using as I simply use the micro spoon that came with the APX Volt. Various reddit members have said it to be around 10uG and I have been using about 1.5 scoops so approx 15uG if that measurement is correct. Has anyone else had a similar experience? Do I simply need to up the dosage? I feel like the experiences I have been having have been incredibly intense but does having a breakthrough experience mean absolutely obliterating this sense of self (one way ticket) with more 5? Any insight would be appreciated. Thank you

November 2, 2020 I had my first call with the doctor. The internet started acting stupid so we had to use the phone instead. We covered a lot of simple information about where I live. He asked me how I intend for these sessions to help me. I told him this was my first time in counselling ever. I sent him the 35 pages about me. I mentioned the suicidal thoughts that kept coming up. He told me to try progressive muscle relaxation and journaling about the thoughts that keep me up at night. I noticed that the more peaceful my mind the better I sleep. What ever is causing my self destructive thoughts, I am hoping that I have him enough information to work with in that essay to figure it out. I covered almost anything that could possibly be causing me psychological trauma. My grandma does not know how to begin to respond to everything I wrote for her. She needs time to write a response. Meanwhile my mom has the copy of the essay. I have some confessions in there that I never told her. I am doing my best to find whatever is causing my depression, but my mind is still conflicted. It is possible that I am hurting myself through focusing to much on truth. I am not balanced if I swing the pendulum too far in this direction, and this may only need to be a smaller part of my life. I did this because I thought it was good, but I don't want to continue to destroy myself as I have been doing for about a decade. I feel disconnected from the rest of reality. I had a short work day and I warned the management about Monday. I need to change my availability for these sessions. I am also not sure if I should hold off on the life purpose course or not yet. I have worked through a little bit for drama that clouded my vision, but if I get to the root of my psychological problems, it may change my conclusions. After work I didn't do much. I played some chess and won most of the games. A lot of the thoughts I had were about my approach to understanding truth and how my neurotic personality has corrupted the process into hurting me. I am trying to figure out if this site is hurting me and if I should stop watching these videos. My psychologist mentioned that he heard of this site. I want to know what my truest bliss is without pursuing what I think is good at my own expense as I have been doing in college. This looks like a tough time for me. I know you are doing your best and I can be thankful for that much.

I am the creator of everything and I choose my experience of life. I dont have any physiological problems when I let myself be in a ecstatic state. "states of consciousness" is just me trying to use language with you. If there are no states of consciousness, and you are consciousness, how is there a you which lets or doesn’t let a myself be in or not be in, a state? Not otherwise either because I chose the ego to do what's needed. I dont get where needs or wants come in. If you are consciousness, and consciousness is choosing the ego, what is the ego, and how is consciousness choosing it? How does consciousness and or ego arrive at what’s needed, as distinguished from what’s wanted? This will become of major importance if you awaken, some that has gone into the bliss too deep really struggle to eat and do whats needed. I don't get where needs or wants come in. Is it possible that there are factors in regard to their experience which you are not aware of, and are thus attaching the importance as relative to their awakening? There is no need for activity when in high states of consciousness. "states of consciousness" is just me trying to use language with you. I don't get where needs or wants come in. If states of consciousness is only semantical, how can the states be the determining factor of need & activity? Dam hahaha, isn't it obvious to the awakened mind? Nahm have you awakened yet? You see when you have awakened often what you do on this world will only be what is needed. I don't get where needs or wants come in. If one were to have an awakening experience, yet still believe in or identify with mind (such as awakened or unawakened mind), one might derive one has ‘an awakened mind’. This also could be semantical, but does not seem so as it is followed with asking another mind (?) if it has awakened yet. Again, could be semantics, but being awake in this instance is being said to be the cause of only doing what is needed. Or if I even should use such unpleasant ego that I am using. I don't get where needs or wants come in. What is the ego and how are you using it? What makes it pleasant or unpleasant to you? Again, you might initially see this to be semantical, or due to English being a second language, but the ego is specified as something you are using, while being said to be unpleasant. I wanted to see, are you doing this for the greater good of the world as the highest unselfishness with no real personal gain or fulfillment from it. Or are you doing all this work to get something out of it, because when you are experiencing ecstasy why choose activity over that, for your survival yes but then what. This is where gurus come in, serving the world. I don't get where needs or wants come in. If states of consciousness is just semantics, and you are self aware consciousness, who are you talking about in regard to selfishness (or selflessness), personal gain, fulfillment, doing work, and getting some thing out of it? This would have to be yourself. If this is recognized, how does this relate to ecstasy being some thing experienced, which comes & goes relative to activity?

That's weird, I'm sorry. Ever since I was a kid, Summer is equivalent with ethereal, magical BLISS in my mind. Fall and Winter is also a lot better now since I discovered vitamin D though.

Smh ... when I was a kid I was very depressed. For the past 5 years I have been living in bliss of creation . However my mom still worried that I might be depressed cause Some person she knows killed themself. I can’t explain to her that I can’t die and how I know that and also I can’t just be like yooooo bruh loooook at this looook how amazing I made this this this is heaven why would I wanna leave? I would just sound crazy. I’m so in love with my creation. It’s magnificent

Enlightened people manage to be blissful in war zones, while starving, while undergoing religious persecution and torture. Doing it while sitting in a school in a first world country should be easy mode. You already said it, the one stopping you from being blissful is yourself. Not your surroundings. It seems like you are actively shunning the conditions that would give you a chance to be blissful. It doesn't have to be a corporate job. But even if you're running your own business, you want a secure income. It's not bliss-inducing to be constantly worrying about how you'll afford your next meal. There is no enlightened YOU, that's the point. Want and desire don't come from enlightenment. That's ego. Obviously I can't prove it, but I call BS on this. Every minute has been productive for weeks? Yet you measure freedom in half-day increments? I would love to be a fly on the wall and track what you are doing in 15 minute segments to show you how much time you're really wasting without realizing it. You think having to hold in a shit until you get to a gym is going to be less bliss-breaking than sitting in a classroom? That's literally the opposite of what I've heard from every enlightened person who has talked about sleep. Normally your demand goes way down. And again if you are enlightened there is no you stretching YOUR mind. There is just a mind doing stuff on autopilot. Look, I know nobody is gonna be able to convince you otherwise. But as an objective observer, this is about the most clear example of zen devilry that I've ever seen.

Yes of course. But the point is as explained by Bashar is that the principle is that what you put out, you get back and life will support and reflect you your beliefs and intentions. So if you act on your excitement, life will give you more of that and also support you in doing what excites you. Bashar likes to call the following your excitement thing 'the complete kitt' or something along those lines, because it is a complete 'method' on its own. So let's say you want to read Leonardo's biography now, perhaps when you finish it you come across something else of him (or someone else, etc) that excites you, and then something else. Before you know it you might get excited to write your discoveries about Leonardo and some other guys on Facebook, then someone contacts you and you discuss and blahblah you get very excited about putting your discoveries on a website which end up paying your bills. Then you might start following another excitement of yours, and on you go. Your life can't pass you by doing that. Because when you say 'life has passed me by, by following my excitement', you're kind of saying that your excitements weren't fulfilled by acting on your excitement. Which is by definition impossible using this method. Not acting on your excitement/joy/passion is how life passes you by. The thing is, is that if you really feel doubtful about whatever your excitement can support you now, it is better to keep doing what you think you need to do to support you in paying the bill or whatever, until you get confident by experience that your excitement can and does support you. I'll tell you that I've never been better as far as I remember since when I seriously started implementing this method, and I've tried a good number of things before lol. I saw you wrote that your apathy was born because you didn't know what joy to follow. It's simple, it's the one that even contains just a very little bit more joy/bliss/passion/excitement than another option. For me that was a couple of hours ago taking a walk, then doing some mantra exercises, then replying this message, etc. Sorry if writing to much, I love this method/insight as it just makes everything good and feel like sharing it much.

I am stopping me from being blissful at school lessons. That's pretty obvious that you cant be blissful there. The whole van thing has making money as the most difficult task. I need a minimum of 150$ a month and I dont want a secure job somewhere. I will have to make money on my own, otherwise I wouldn't be able to travel which I think the enlightened me will want. Now I have been focused every minute of my life in the last couple of weeks in developing skills to make money on my own. We had 1 week holiday right now and I haven't spent any freedom almost, not even half a day. Even me being here right now is not in alignment with what I must do. For me the van is only for sleep, a tent or other solution wouldn't be able to stop in parking lots. Shower at gyms or bathhouses, pooping there too. Peing in the wild or in van. Eating much raw food in the van but also cooked with electric cooktop. Washing clothes for hand or with mini electric washer. That's the essentials. The question is if im pushing my mind too far, my sleep quota has increased because I'm stretching the capacity and capability of my mind. I also don't allow myself high states of consciousness that much and often have a reverse ego backlash. Where I have used my mind beyond capability it gets difficult to use or withhold it any more therefore I get in states of blissfullness as a break from my mind. Not that I mind. School already takes up most of my day and to try to make something out of myself simultaneously gives no room for that much joy or bliss. I would love to just spend one day in ecstacy, but that luxury I never gave myself. I am very serious and dedicated now that I have awakened. Not that I know if I am doing the right thing. Ego is kind of difficult to keep up but as said, is needed for survival.

The path of enlightenment is un-recommendable, not only because there isn't really a path to truth (which is all there is), but because you'll embark upon it against your will if you become all too conscious of your own fraudulent nature as a separate individual. For happiness, peace, meaning, and exploration, I guess I'd have to recommend Rob Burbea's Seeing That Frees. Unbelievable happiness is possible with his approach. I get butterflies in my stomach just thinking about that guy. Or any self-love guru's approaches -- Anna Brown; Matt Kahn; etc. Also, keep on following Leo. His understanding is incredible. And expanding. For fulfilment as a person, the best approach is probably radical practicality. Figure out what you want, and figure out how you're gonna do it. Look for things to be grateful for, keep a radically open mind, and look for miracles. Everything is a miracle. See what you can genuinely see as a miracle now, and keep going further. Never stop. You'd think the more conscious you become, the more bliss you'd feel, but really you just feel more fulfilment, and as far as your mood goes, it may just increasingly consist of gratitude. And perhaps sadness, but maybe that's just me. Even before I started waking up I saw the beauty in sadness more than I think is normal.

Depends on what you mean by enlightened states. Jhana 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and the unfabricated (nirvana; end of time) might aptly be called enlightened states. Unity consciousness, when experienced, will pretty much invariably be assumed to be the goal of the spiritual path when it is made lasting (it pretty much never lasts). Same with jhana 3 and higher, oftentimes. What I mean by enlightenment is the complete collapse of the real sense of here/there, now/then, I/you, distance, good/bad, personal doer-ship, and reality in any sense whatsoever, to the point where it is inconceivable that any self that is separate from everything could "come back," because it's recognized it wasn't actually ever there -- the only thing that seems to be able to bring this about is absolute egoic suicide. Perhaps there is a pleasant path that somehow leads to it, but it would only be pleasant by virtue of doing extremely pleasant things in meditation, etc. The enlightenment would happen completely in spite of the pleasantness. The pleasantness only serving to make the process less painful. I can imagine some may not only get enlightened pain free, but filled with bliss -- that would be due to profound meditation skill. No idea if it's true though. And of course, no one gets enlightenment.