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9 hours ago, Water by the River said: Whatever the meaning or Referent of this concept/word is , it would just be more form. Even if its a very subtle appearance or formless understanding. Just more arisings. @Aurum: Luckily, we did get a timely answer: Alien FORMS of consciousness and intelligence. I fully believe Leo that he experienced this, and its fascinating stuff. For sure, there are those perspectives/intelligences creating and keeping the game running. That is the stuff that humanity will probably focus on the explore in the next 1000 years and beyond, if not a mishappen asteroid or so comes along.... So Leo is a pioneer of the highest degree, for sure. And maybe after 1000 years we will play the UFOs on some other planets or dimensions, or create our own little dimensions or whatever, and appear as these Alien intelligences. Who knows? But lets say reality is really infinite (as pretty much everbody and most spiritual texts agree on): Its infinite turtles all the way up. N+1. You never reach the top. If you understood that Alien Universe-Creator/Manager, you can go understood his "boss". And the next. And so on, forever. So form doesn't stop. And the content of every perspective, of the alien forms of consciousness and intelligence, are by definition form. It is all arisings. So it is an infinity "upwards", see Leos Video on Infinity Part 2, Cantors Set Theory. It will never stop. No reason not to explore, if you have fun doing it. I am curious for which shows are ongoing, for sure.The one Absolute Subject watching all of that, Reality itself or You, doesnt have form. It would limit Reality. This realization is the core of classic Enlightenment. And knowing the Absolute of Reality is knowing the infinite Abyss of Consciousness: It is not form. "It" is the only "thing" (I know...) that is not form, neither subtle or not. It is the Real You (not the separate self arisings in you). It is Reality itself. If no arisings happen in your perspective it is Nirvikalpa or Deep Sleep, if arisings happen in you perspective, it's perceptions perceiving themselves. With or without a separate self-arising going on. That is by the way the structure of all perspectives/beings being imagined by Ultimate Reality. Any Identity/I-feeling-arising is form. Any understanding is an appearance. Why? Its not permanent. It comes and goes. Its not you. It arises in you. And my only humble suggestion is: Before you go running exploring that which you can never finish in this lifetime: Why not look deeply into the abyss of your own true being (which contains all form, but never is form, getting to the point where there is so much no center that all perceptions see themselves), learn to keep that ongoing in daily life, and be happy and in bliss, and go exploring these Alien-Minds then? Why go exploring on an endless journey with so much urgency while still not being happy, because a separate self still creates dis-satisfaction (which by definition it does to keep the game/illusion going). How would you call a game that keeps you dissatiesfied searching for the highest form of Alien Intelligence, when there are an infinite number of them out there, chasing your own tail? What is it that keeps the whole illusion running? The separate self at its core has to generate dis-satisfation, to keep some activity going on. Not that it winds down and one actually looks into the absolutely formless abyss of ones own Being and Reality, sees the separate self building blocks arising as those elements that cause the dis-satisfaction in the first place, and lives happily ever after. Would be bad for the show if everybody did that. Luckily, that risk will not arise soon. Especially since we see here a new and creative form of that activity of chasing your own tail, so to say the highest evolved version of that until now, in some sense really the cutting edge of that aspect of humanity. And please nobody say that I am saying it is not worth exploring the Alien Superminds. That is part of the fascinating show. My only suggestion would be to do it in a way that makes you honestly happy and loving. And for that I would recommend you buying a bottle of water at the river saying: "Look deeply into your being, and check what reality is, what you are, if that makes you happy and loving or not, and check if its maybe already water. From the river". As always: Review the perspectives and draw your own conclusion on what resonates within you. And think about if you want to be happy/loving while resting in your True Nature and then go exploring the Alien-Whatevers of the Multiverse, or go on that trip with a separate self very well intact, causing regularly returning dissatisfaction & unloving, and having from time to time some great highs in merging and understanding those Alien-Godminds.

What I can't reach my head around, is this.. Even If I can reach this Alien understanding, how can this beat the understanding of the Godhead? Shouldn't god be the ultimate understanding and even the highest Alien consciousness only a small fractal of gods understanding?

So at the end you got some moments of omniscience and a lot of frustration for be trapped in the human device. anyway, if it's possible go further it's normal to go. But for me it's enough with solving the human maze and be limitless all time. Why do you need to know the structure of reality? Helps you to be infinite? I think you are confusing quantity with quality . But maybe you are right, too soon to know And maybe one day one of those aliens comes and tell you: do you think you are awake? Poor ant...you ve not a clue of what awakening is Anyway, alien or not, a course about how to optimize the use of psychedelics from a professional as you is very interesting

Alien Consciousness has touches of Omniscience to it. The more conscious you become the closer to Omniscience you get. A human can seem omniscient from the POV of an ant. Psychedelics can take you very far if you use them properly. Which is what my new course will teach people how to do. But yes, we are all limited by our genetics in the end. How could it be otherwise? Still, you have not nearly tapped the full potential of what your genetics allow.

How does this relate to Omniscience? You distinguish Omniscience from Alien Consciousness. Yet it seems like you hold them both as the pinnacle of awakening. It would seem to follow that even mega doses of psychedelics may not be enough to comprehend reality at the level. We may just be limited by our own brains. Although you were able to do it for a short time, so it’s at least possible.

Correct. When consciousness reaches levels beyond human -- way beyond nonduality, Buddhism, and even most psychedelic trips -- it transforms into alien forms of consciousness and intelligence. All human spirituality is just that -- human. It is not the same as an advanced alien mind. Surely you understand that there exist aliens in the universe with brains 100x larger and smarter than yours. The most enlightened human is like an ant next to that level of consciousness. Now ask yourself, how would it feel to stop being human and become that alien? What would that kind of intelligence/mind feel like? Well, what I am telling you is that I know, because I have directly become it. And I can tell you that it turns all human spiritual understanding to shame. No human on this planet is that conscious. I cannot maintain such a level of consciousness for long, but at least I know that it exists and what it is like. It is utterly radical and nonhuman. That's a lot closer to the kind of intelligence that designed reality. Human intelligence is incapable to comprending reality's design. Your genetics and brain are too limited. Even if you were born very spiritually gifted. Remember, humans are just ants in the grand scheme of thing. The only reason humans act like the ultimate is because no one is around to put us to shame. Human intelligence is infinitesimally small. Imagine what it's like to be an ant relative to a human. Then imagine what it would be like to be an advanced alien relative to a human. Your mind would be so advanced you would experience reality in a completely new way. This goes way beyond merely not having ego. Ego and egolessness are just a small part of your consciousness and your life. Even if you lose all ego, your experience of reality will still be extremely limited and basic. Your understanding will still be very low. Ego loss and presence is not what this work is truly about. That is a minor matter in the end. There are much larger issues at stake. You cannot comprehend GOD merely by losing your ego or being very present. This is the core mistake of Buddhism. They confuse such things with CONSCIOUSNESS. But those are very narrow aspects of CONSCIOUSNESS.

You don’t know that. You don’t know what Leo means by Alien Consciousness. And neither do I. But I don’t think Leo is making such an obvious error. Alternatively, if it just “more form”, then it’s clear he thinks it’s a highly relevant form. And maybe there’s good reason for that. My point is we just don’t know. Let’s have a little bit of faith in Leo. He obviously feels it is important.

Actually I think the idea fails. Where did the alien come from? At some point, the answer has to be pure Infinity. Fair enough. I don’t think at this point we are supposed to understand Alien Consciousness or understand why Leo thinks it matters. Obviously that would come with more experience. My point is simply that I’m open to it. If Leo thinks it matters, then I trust his opinion on this at least enough to investigate. I think he has earned that. If he is wrong, then that should also become clear.

It would be cool though, wouldn't it? Lol. I genuinely would enjoy that to be the case. I am also sure he is aware of the fundamental nature of reality, but see I just don't think anything other than that is relevant. Leo discussed infinity in the "other direction". That is why I stopped using DMT because it felt like I could go off down those rabbitholes, but as overwhelming as the states are, and as pathetic as I feel in comparison to the magnitude of the power of these twisted realms, it seems ultimately irrelevant. Smoking Salvia is very alien consciousness, you can't even coinceive that such a thing is possible. DMT can get even worse, especially if you take SSRIs, because you won't get a breakthrough at levels where you should, and instead be left in the most twisted nightmareish state of pure incomprehensible fuckedness. Realistically these drugs can rape you far beyond humanity. I'm not sure any of it ultimately matters though.

@aurum "If by alien supermind you are referring to Leo’s latest insights about Alien Consciousness, I would say we have no idea yet what Leo even means by this. " Whatever the meaning or Referent of this concept/word is , it would just be more form. Even if its a very subtle appearance or formless understanding. Just more arisings. What is it that is aware of all of that? And what happens with that in Deep Sleep? What is that Nothingness that can be unaware of itself if nothing appears, but has the innate potential for sentience? That which can never not be? If that understanding manifests in your mindstream and daily everday-life, I would be interested in how happy and blissful you are on a permanent basis. And how much you would still grasp about the Alien... But then you would probably anyway go looking about this interesting Alien Supermind, but with a big smile on your face. When such a show comes into town.... I would go looking.... ( : PS: I am really curious what kind of stuff will be dragged in from the Multiverse into our little comfy imagined reality in the next decades... Hopefully nothing that is too hungry for some poor souls... ( : But hey, if you look into history, they dragged quite some weird and hungry stuff from god knows which dimensions.... many of the first contactees could later be visited in insane asylums.

That’s true. But I’m pretty sure a marble being played with by a physical alien is not literally what Leo is referring to. Men In Black is obviously a movie. It’s not going to be equivalent to whatever Leo is talking about. You can argue that Alien Consciousness must be irrelevant because it must be preceded by Presence, but I don’t think Leo is overlooking this point. I’m going to give him more credit than that. That would be a very newbie mistake to make.

It is valid because the fact of being precedes appearance. There is nothing to any particular appearance apart from the fact of its presence. Really think about what you refer to when saying "I am conscious of _" (like I am conscious of the sound of this music). In any statement about being conscious of anything, you won't find reference to anything except the fact of presence. Isness. Being. Being conscious of _ (whatever thing, like music) = the presence of _, and that's all it is. Nothing more. It is literally a communication that something is present. That is the all it means. Any perception from thought to sight, is perception. If it's a space alien made of sight, there is nothing to that except the visual phenomena which is the way the alien looks. If you believe you are the alien there might be the alien's thought perceptions. All of this is perceptions. Fundamentally there is nothing to any of that apart from their presence. When the alien appears visually, the visual appearance of the alien is present. When the alien's thoughts appear, the appearance of alien thought is present. Presence is the fundamental reality. The lack of distinction often referenced by gurus is to do with categorical divides. The same categorical divide which makes people do somersaults about life and death, because there is a concept that there will be a categorical shift across a divide from existence, which is thought to be a category containing all sorts of phenomena, and non existence which is conceptualized as eternal nothingness. People envision going into a dreamless sleep and never waking up. Actually, reality can freely and readily bleed between apparently distinct categories because categories are not actual. They are only thought perceptions, which are appearances, and are themselves not default to the fact of presence. There is not nothing and something or existence and non existence, because these are divided categories existent only in the mind of the one who has the idea. And presence precedes all. Even a husk of an idea remaining of category will keep it lingering, much like the idea of entering non existence, there is no necessity for such a thing to ever be actual but as long as even a remnant of an idea that this reality has categories exists, we cannot envision eternal appearances without the opposite. It really has to be seen through that neither is actual otherwise at least some idea of how something ought to be will remain. Because of the fact presence can cause a conceptual idea of what isn't present, as per the other categories above, it might not be a suitable word still. A suitable word would probably be something nonsensical that you make up, because such a term would not have an implied opposite. I know people enjoy the term God, Brahman, and various others. I think they are too humanized. So I would actually recommend making up a nonsense gibberish word instead. Honestly a nonsense word is the best way to destroy categorical thinking and to destroy any idea of traits being must have. Call it googlegoo or something, googlegoo doesn't create in the mind ideas of an opposing type of thing. Anyway... Any conceivable idea is going to consist of perception. So I just do not understand why anyone finds it interesting what reality is aside from the sheer fact of being. It would be cool if our universe were inside a marble being played with by an alien, I would love that to be true. That would still be preceded by the sheer fact of presence, though. There isn't anything else.

It's the anymore part that may give people pause. When I first joined the forum, I was lectured about referring to the theory (rather than the reality) of nonduality. Now it is alien consciousness. Stay tuned for the next episode in Leo's amazing adventure! If people want to live by spiritual proxy and see the journey as entertainment that's fine, but nothing will improve the quality of their lives like direct experience. I am not disparaging Leo. Setting aside that he has to support his family, and that a cascade of self-trumping claims serves this purpose, I feel that in his core Leo is sincere. I am only asking people to be sincere themselves, and use that sincerity to dive deeply into the unchartered territory within.

Who is defining what is and isn’t a hallucination? And how do you know your definition is valid? What if there is no meaningful distinction? If by alien supermind you are referring to Leo’s latest insights about Alien Consciousness, I would say we have no idea yet what Leo even means by this. He has said very little about it, and the little he has said, it seems clear he thinks it’s very important. This is probably true. Possibly there is another path, but it’s hard to say.

@StarStruck I was powerfully awake before Alien Consciousness ;/ Drinking Starbucks while basking on non-dual states. But shit happens. Here we go…

Can we go back to this? Alien consciousness ruined everything.

@Breakingthewall I know who I AM. I know what THIS IS. I don't know any details in between. I don't know how. I don't know WHY. I just know what IT is and I know I will never know for sure anything in between. I don't care whether a dmt entity or Leo or Jesus himself tells me, I won't know for sure and frankly I don't even care. There's no higher awakening because the answers to who I AM and what IT IS will never change. The highest awakening already took place. You will know it's the ultimate - by its nature. I don't care whether I am in a simulation, or I am controlled by aliens, or I am in an alien simulation, or a simulation in a simulation etc, it doesn't change the highest awakening concept of who I am and what it is

The thing is extremely difficult to understand, few months ago he said that he had discovered the alien awakening, and he said the following statements: the God Realizations I had were wrong, because we humans are only shown that since we couldn't bear it anymore (!) 2/ From now on only I'm going to teach the alien awakening. 3/ I see colored sentient aliens doing somersaults and riding in a helicopter, I've never been so happy. 4/ I think I've taken too much psychedelics and every time I close my eyes a portal to another dimension opens... so how do you explain this? I really want Leo to have discovered something new, a revolution! but other times I think... crazy and that's it. but the guy seems grounded and wise.... sometimes. hard to understand!

@Inliytened1 First of all, I'm not Lester ! I dont know who that is or why you guys think I am him Second of all, It's impressive you have become enlightened without drugs. I used a lot of psychedelics and dissociatives and let me tell you the states and feelings you get while tripping are MERELY POINTERS to very complex concepts like infinity, oneness, nothingness, God, everything-ness, etc. These concepts are so abstract and out of this world YOU CANNOT EXPERIENCE THEM. They were not designed to be experienced. They dont exist essentially. Everything you feel on drugs is fake, but can work well as pointers, to open your mind to possibilities. So to all the people who claim they've experienced nothingness, infinity, God on drugs, IT"S ALL FAKE, IT"S ALL A HALLUCINATION. I promise you. Yes, the feeling was metaphorically close to the actual 'concept', but it was mostly what your limited human mind thought infinity or nothingness should feel like. Even if you were close, YOU"RE NOT EVEN CLOSE! Do you get it? Nothingness is not a feeling! Infinity is not a feeling! God damn, it should be obvious, I feel so stupid even saying this to you. They're all hallucinations! Trust me, it requires you to really abuse these substances until you truly realize the meaning of what a hallucination is. They work wonders to open you up, but then if you continue using them you'll slowly enter the schizo realm by thinking you're actually speaking to "aliens" and entities and God or whatever. The drug hits you so hard that the thoughts that pop inside your head seem like they come from an alien entity. Schizo stuff. That's called psychosis, not enlightenment. It's very easy to fall into drugs' trap of "there are more awakening, there are higher and higher awakenings" that Leo seems to have fallen into. It took me a while to realize this. I kept using and using thinking there are higher and higher awakenings when in reality I was going deeper and deeper into complete delusions, total schizo realm. Complete enlightenment is definitely possible without the use of any drug. If it's 'your' destiny to awaken, 'you''ll awaken. I seriously doubt the "AWAKE" state of Leo (awake with capital A , because you see apparently there's a difference between awake and Awake, or AWAKE, who tf knows?), mainly because this post definitely came from a place of arrogance, narcissism and complete disrespect for everybody. If you think you know more than someone just because you DEDICATED YOURSELF MORE AND MADE MORE SACRIFICES AND DID MORE DRUGS:))), you're out of your mind, you're operating under a limiting belief. Whoever says he's the OnLy oNe AwAkE is probably ego tripping. It's understandable

@Leo Gura In your 'What does Awakening feel like?' video you describe your highest awakening as becoming a point in geometry, a perfect singularity. How many times have you become this point? And did you have higher awakenings then this one? Is alien consciousness beyond that?

To be fair you can't expect to "verify" heavy drug trips without heavy drug trips. Staring at your palms for hours like you're on the special ed bus like some people do is never going to be a hallucinogenic trip. Obviously if someone thinks those practices are ever going to be a Salvia trip, they have more than earned their spot on that bus. Hallucinogenic trip occurrences often have no relevance to what reality fundamentally is, though. Who cares if an alien supermind is imagining this galaxy to save its planet from an overfarming of fossil fuels? It has no relevance, since existence precedes the alien. In my mind it is of zero importance. There is only one worthwhile insight, in total ego death like breakthrough with the toad, and who cares about the rest?

They disagree due to having different conceptual frameworks with which to convey a message. I don't see how or why anything matters except what reality fundamentally is. Why does it matter if it's all an alien playing with a marble like Men in Black, when the alien itself is a manifestation of reality. Surely it only matters what the fundamental reality of which the alien is part of actually is, who would care about anything other than that?

@Leo Gura Nobody is going to enter the Highest Awakening you talk about without years of this work, inhuman deconstruction and openmindeness, lot of manual spiritual practises and than awakenings from psychedelics. Can you see your own work holisticly? And lets not forget its almost impossible without having a psychedelic like 5-Meo to enter these insane states of Alien Intelligence you talk about. But nonetheless I believe you know that already and I see the eagerness in you to push trough all of the bullshit coming from the human mind. I see through all of it. And I like it ?

Although I messaged Leo with his name during the conversation, he just ignores me so here are my questions: How is Non-Duality not Awakening when you said that Awakening is realizing that you are God and there that there is no one else but you? I don't see any dualities here. Does separation occur because there is no difference between duality and non-duality since it's a duality that collapses? What makes God Alien Intelligence if God is everywhere? Is the intelligence "Alien" because it transcends human intelligence as the godhead?

You are an alien pretending to be a human in a human body but really you are in a space ship pretending to be on earth. Earth is not a physical thing its inside the simulation. The aliens are our gods but they also have their own God. Which is what you actually are is god pretending to be an alien pretending to be a human . The earth is like a spot where all aliens come together and grow.