Leo Gura

Major Discussion Of Actualized.org Teachings & The Future

289 posts in this topic

14 hours ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

Yoo that looks sick! How did you get the dark mode going? I hate to be looking at this bright white all the time... xD

There are add-ons for this. I can recommend "Dark Reader".


"Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.”

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15 hours ago, Brivido said:

I have been reading a lot of comments the past few days, before making up my mind about what has happened. The main issue seems to be that the majority of people that critique and misinterpret Leo's work are not able to distinguish between Absolute Truth and relative truth. 

This doesn't make much sense to me, because I have always been able to make such a distinction, but the people that come on this forum have various level of development and I can see how a newbie might misunderstand a True spiritual principle like "All fears are illusion". My suggestion is to make a video or a post about the topic of Absolut Truth and relative truth and pin it at the top of the forum, so that it is clearly stated that they are two different things.

I have noticed another problem with the spiritual community in general. Spiritual people tend to become crazy and forget how to behave like a normal human being. The main issue is that on the spiritual path you might see things out of this world and if your mind is not malleable enough you might go insane. I wish that people would be able to have a mystical experience or chat with an alien on Friday and then be able to go to work at the office on Monday, as if nothing special as happened. A video along the line of "How not to lose your mind while on the spiritual path" is much needed.

Again, some people on this forum have been studying non-duality for years and others are completely new to the path. In my opinion, it has to be stressed more that studying the map of the non-dual territory actually matters, otherwise you might crash hard. Leo, you used to do that in the past way more, now you are promoting psychedelics. Which is fine to me, but promoting psychedelics to a newbie might have negative repercussions. I think you should make clear that before getting serious with psychedelics a newbie should have a clear understanding of non-duality. Personally, before trying any kind of psychedelic I have studied non-duality for five years or even more, and those five years of study have helped me a lot making sense of what I have experienced during my psychedelics session and staying a functional human being.

I hope this post is going to help somehow @Leo Gura

@Florian totally agree with this post, I got deep into this path the exact same time Leo did so I was almost following along with his own development and having say 6 years of nonduality and meditation training helps alot before taking psychedelics. If someome new finds his most recent work its prob to much for them to take.  You need alot of grounding before you can integrate this and not loose your mind. 

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46 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

Hey @Leo Gura, a question comes to mind...

Would you find it contradictory to your core teachings if I was to post on this sub about the healing aspect of awakening? Specifically; pointing out how healing one's heart can and does lead to incredibly profound realizations and deep awakenings? Do you mind me emphasizing more often in the future the emotional aspect of being, or God - if you will..? In a polite, respectful manner - that is.

I am aligning with that 'path' in my own journey; so it would be only natural to speak of it. I trust there are many members here who would find the information valuable. 

Would that be cool with you?

I would personally love to see more of this. I don’t see how this contradicts with his teachings, but I’m not the man himself. 


LSD - A God Consciousness Experience (begins at 1:32) 
https://youtu.be/IOLw7_lbJtw

Experiences aren’t enlightenment. Enlightenment is what can span any experience or lack thereof. There is no such thing as a living enlightened person, but there can be the appearance of someone being alive who is in truth death itself. 

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1 hour ago, Sempiternity said:

Maybe there could be another section of the forum just for the most dedicated to the path? One for amateurs who are just starting out in their journey. A place where they can ask the basics, discuss things at that level, and get advice from more experienced peoples. And another for those who more advanced on the path, who can discuss the deepest depths of Nonduality/God-Consciousness/Love/Infinity with others at that same level. Think of it like school. Would you have people in grades 6 -12 in the same class, discussing the same subjects, with the peoples in Masters and Doctorate programs? Of course not. It neither benefits those at the 6-12 stage, nor the people at the Masters stage of education. The only way a University Masters class works, for the Professor to be able to teach topics at that level, is if everyone in that class has the same level of education and understanding. And those at the 6-12 stage of education can get confused and frustrated by the Masters class subject matter, potentially hindering their development at the stage that they are at. What if there was a Actualized.org Masters class forum, where people had to earn admittance, through their applied dedication to their spiritual path. And if they display tendencies that don't meet the standard set for that forum, instead of banning them, they simply get put back into the general audience forum. And, as they grow, if they so desire, they can apply again. Isn't Actualized.org an education of a subject matter, in this case Nonduality/God-Consciousness/Love/Infinity? Why shouldn't it operate like an education system, with tiers, instead of all lumped together? Any education system where all levels of education/understanding/knowledge are all lumped together, would run into major issues. 

This seems like a worthwhile thing to consider/explore. 
+1


LSD - A God Consciousness Experience (begins at 1:32) 
https://youtu.be/IOLw7_lbJtw

Experiences aren’t enlightenment. Enlightenment is what can span any experience or lack thereof. There is no such thing as a living enlightened person, but there can be the appearance of someone being alive who is in truth death itself. 

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I have listened to your video on how on Gender being a social construct and want to say there is a problem with the definition of science, which leads to false conclusions of what science can and cannot do. Science does not only 'measure or record data' as said in the video, that is only a small but necessary part of science. With that definition it is obvious that you cannot do much, such as make categorize male and female based on empirical investigation of what each is. Science constitutes the scientific method; creating a hypothesis, doing the experiment that will test the hypothesis (measuring all the data), and getting to a conclusion to the hypothesis that was predicted, then publishing it (which is not necessary). This is what science entails (however, different methods of these steps can be used to make a study better or worse). And through this, one is doing science, which is way more than just measuring data.

So, from this inaccurate definition of science, it is easy to say that science cannot 'prove' the existence of a male of female (or anything really), because apparently that is not what science does. Actually you can, it is what science does. Through the process of the scientific method; A female has a vagina, a male has a penis; Take measurements/observations; and conclude.

That's my main problem with the video; an inaccurate definition of science, which allows one say to falsely say that science cannot prove anything. Please correct me if I have misunderstood something.

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No material experience at all would continue. It's effectively death, for real. You don't cease to exist, you become an infinitely conscious singularity.

Also, when the above is what happens when you reach Mahasamadhi, why would anyone want to go there? Because as you said love is all of the physical stuff that exists, so if dying is leaving love, it seems counterproductive to want to reach that. Is the infinitely conscious singularity something different from the love that you say is physical reality. Thx

 

 

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Posted (edited)

@Leo Gura in the past I brought up the dangers of mental illnesses/childhood trauma and psychedelics. You shrugged it under the table and you said you give multiple warnings in your videos and people can google and research stuff before taking it. You yourself don't have any mental illnesses so it was hard for you to empathize what I was talking about. I think now you understand my point.

In your recent videos you said you give warnings but these were obviously not enough. People are UNCONSCIOUS of their own mental illnesses and childhood trauma so just giving them "warnings" is  like telling a blind person to stop at a red light.

Perhaps you should make some specific videos on trauma healing with help of psychedelics: that is actually practical for most people and would make their life better. People come here and they think enlightenment is the magic pill while being deeply mentally ill. That is the problem.

Edited by StarStruck

My journal on self-actualization, relationships and dating:

Pickup Express Journal

 

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Posted (edited)

This is super interesting and captivating, lots of valuable comments in this thread. 

I'm deeply sorry for the family of the deceased! Also, sending Leo some basic human compassion - he seems to be handling the fallout and evaluating responsibility just fine, but I imagine it must be emotionally difficult too.

I'm one of the people coming into spirituality from a place of depression (though not suicidal level) and anxiety, my core interests in personal development have been emotions, relationships, trauma healing. I'm greatful to Leo for introducing me to some philosophy and spirituality too :). My progress is slow, I've been following since forever (2016), and awakening is still over my head. 

It would never occur to me to take Leo's teachings as promoting suicide. For me, they are fascinating! But I understand that spiritual concepts and experience can lead to confusion in some people. I've never personally experienced much of it just from listening - ideas on their own aren't very threatening to me. Experience is a different thing and can be deeply unsettling. In terms of dealing with the dangers of spiritual teachings, I'm happy and grateful to have people around me who have been part of i.e. the holotropic breathwork community. They are my guide as much as Leo is, and they help me balance some of Leo's bias.  

As for grievances, I've expressed my opinion on several topics in the past - the old relationship videos, the pick-up line of the forum, the repeated bashing of science and religion (which I'm sick and tired off) and other unnecessary repetition, the political commentary. Some videos on Leo's side-interests or newly developing interests just don't have the quality of his core spiritual and philosophical content. (On the other hand, from my area of expertise, I very much appreciate the quantum mechanics series! :)) I've also recently expressed concern whether Leo has enough feedback from (or rather, shared investigation with) high-quality intellectuals in the social/politics domain, and I've been called insane :/ 

Leo, this may be a false impression, but it often seems from your videos like you don't talk about your insights and your journey to anyone at all. I'm just always so happy to hear you mention being at a retreat and talking to the teacher, or similar. We may be all imaginary or all one (I don't know what I'm talking about here), but in the relative domain, people need to relate to people as close to their level as possible. I don't think the forum is enough feedback for you. 

If there was some distinction between content for newbies and content for long-time viewers in the future, I would appreciate it.

Lastly, I'm organizing a students' personal development group at my faculty. I've struggled with my conscience on whether I can recommend actualized.org as a source of advice. So far I decided I can't. I'm not actually sure it would have a net positive effect on the students' lives if they started to dive into spirituality and psychedelics. It's a hard decision though, between authenticity and caution (coupled with fear). 

Edited by Elisabeth

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Although this site has helped me to grow a lot, there are some problems.

1. The spiritual forum has too many threads which entertain the idea of suicide as a valid spiritual practice.  There needs to be a pinned thread at the top to address the idea of suicide for spiritual reasons.  If there continues to be discussions about suicide and spirituality on this forum it will muddy the waters and some people will fall into the trap of harming the body.

I discussed suicide with somebody in this forum before.  He mentioned that he did not fear death.  If I did not correct what he was thinking, then he might have killed himself.  Moderators should take these types of discussions more seriously and should lock threads that discuss validity in suicide as a spiritual method.  These kinds of discussions should not be happening in the forum.  It needs to be dismissed immediately in a pinned thread at the top of the forum.

2. Actualized.org cannot exempt itself from the issue of mental illness.  Given this YouTube format with people all over the world watching, inevitably people with sick minds will watch and corrupt the teachings.  In case somebody with a mental illness comes across this channel, there needs to be a greater emphasis on seeking professional help if there are any thoughts of harming yourself or someone else.  This can be helpful for people who have serious trauma bubbling up during meditation. 

The assumption of this channel is that the listeners are mentally stable, but this assumption is clearly wrong.  A person who needs mental help does not want to admit that they need it.  They will be prone to the self deception that they are healthy enough to watch these videos.  One thing I can compliment you for so far is that you made the description more robust in the videos.  It is critical that mention the possibility of worsening serious mental conditions by misusing these teachings.

3.  The most practical videos for me were emotional mastery.  This includes childhood vows, anger, depression, envy, and many more.  I shared these videos with my brother when he had some emotional problems.  He asked "why don't they teach this school?". My brother and I both found it extremely helpful.  If you want to help people ease the intensity of ego backlash and psychological trauma, you should make more videos on practical psychology.  If you over emphasize advanced spiritual topics, many newbies might skip the necessary foundation set in older videos years ago.

I want to thank you for your work so far.  You helped me to see the value in personal development and spirituality.

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Posted (edited)

@Leo Gura Just wanted to share this, Actualized.org teachings are the best when you have been watching all the videos since the last 5 6 years. When people are just introduced to this channel, I wouldn't even recommend them watching the videos from the last 3 years, let alone the recent ones. But as you always say, who wants to put the time and focus on 300 hours of content, that are necessary for the foundation of deeper insights, and just try to be more curious and contemplative about all these topics?

Your teachings have reached a point that the mass can never handle it and you are pretty aware of that. As other members suggested, the spiritual enlightenment section can be divided into two parts of newbies who need foundation, and people with experiences who need support. You can also do videos geared towards newbies if you wanted to. Maybe it is frustrating for you to repeat the same old topics that are so important for newbies. If people had enough foresight they would go back to the more basic teachings so they can have some experience for themselves.

I myself started watching you when I was fucking 15 and now I'm almost 20. I went through almost all the videos from the beginning on purpose and I didn't skip to the most advanced videos at the time. Now I watch your videos fully and then go contemplate myself. what you are for me is an amazing guide, not a source of truth. I've been careful introducing you to anyone I wanted to share with and told them to never skip stuff. The forum for me was a place to relate to people and share my experiences but later I focused on myself and found out the forum is another distraction and limitation for me, like having insights just so you can share them here, not for the purpose of understanding it yourself.

Now, would you do newbie videos here and there again that you did years back, or would you add even more disclaimers that "you shouldn't be watching this, go watch the older, more important videos for you."? That's why most teachers repeat the same shit for the decades, but the thing I always loved about you is that you always evolve and go deeper with the teachings. No matter what you do people with no foundation at all, will watch a video about what is God or what is Love. At least people who care enough find you by chance and grow a lot. Most people can benefit A LOT from just developing mindfulness in their lives, it can improve their life decisions and relationships and their mental states, or just learning the basics to how to contemplate for yourself. I have so much shit to do before going so deep on mysticism, but I can still have experiences and insights, without making fucking life decisions based on it.

Rest in peace SoonHei. May this situation be another teaching for everyone.

Edited by Pouya

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@Pouya I think you make an important point about newbies skipping to advanced points.  Maybe the actualized videos should be set into various playlists from the least advanced to the most advanced.  If a newbie jumps to the most recent videos there is not a chance that they will understand it.  If there were an order set for watching the videos, actualized could minimize the people taking these teachings the wrong way. 

Maybe there should be a playlist for the most beginner friendly material.  The dangers of spiritual work should be at the beginning of the advanced playlists.  This will serve as a warning for those who don't know what they are getting themselves into.  The beginning of advanced teachings will make it clear not to harm the body or commit suicide.

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7 hours ago, Globalcollective said:

@Florian totally agree with this post, I got deep into this path the exact same time Leo did so I was almost following along with his own development and having say 6 years of nonduality and meditation training helps alot before taking psychedelics. If someome new finds his most recent work its prob to much for them to take.  You need alot of grounding before you can integrate this and not loose your mind. 

@trenton wrong @ ?

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@trenton there is actually a playlist for spiritual enlightenment but yeah that can be really beneficial :)

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Posted (edited)

11 hours ago, Sempiternity said:

Maybe there could be another section of the forum just for the most dedicated to the path? One for amateurs who are just starting out in their journey. A place where they can ask the basics, discuss things at that level, and get advice from more experienced peoples. And another for those who more advanced on the path, who can discuss the deepest depths of Nonduality/God-Consciousness/Love/Infinity with others at that same level. Think of it like school. Would you have people in grades 6 -12 in the same class, discussing the same subjects, with the peoples in Masters and Doctorate programs? Of course not. It neither benefits those at the 6-12 stage, nor the people at the Masters stage of education. The only way a University Masters class works, for the Professor to be able to teach topics at that level, is if everyone in that class has the same level of education and understanding. And those at the 6-12 stage of education can get confused and frustrated by the Masters class subject matter, potentially hindering their development at the stage that they are at. What if there was a Actualized.org Masters class forum, where people had to earn admittance, through their applied dedication to their spiritual path. And if they display tendencies that don't meet the standard set for that forum, instead of banning them, they simply get put back into the general audience forum. And, as they grow, if they so desire, they can apply again. Isn't Actualized.org an education of a subject matter, in this case Nonduality/God-Consciousness/Love/Infinity? Why shouldn't it operate like an education system, with tiers, instead of all lumped together? Any education system where all levels of education/understanding/knowledge are all lumped together, would run into major issues. 

Yeaah like this or something like it would be awesome,  sure the problem would be that maybe some people would label it cult like even more, but is it really unavoidable?

I dont know but there is some potential in this, will sorta clear out the unserious people.

One thing is clear imo and that is that this forum is a fucking blessing to us all and your work is amazing Leo, I feel in my heart that you will go down as one of the biggest philosophers/teachers in history.

There is no one with that depth on the psyche, life, God and so forth.

Your work is extremely important imo and I dont know where i would have been in my life without your channel.

It has grown me tremendously. 

Thank you for all that you do.

 

Edited by Adamq8

You must be swift as the coursing river
With all the force of a great typhoon
With all the strength of a raging fire
Mysterious as the dark side of the moon

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Posted (edited)

@Leo Gura

I want to  thank you for your teachings. I follow them for 2 years now and the first 15 months I was very sceptical but more and more things revealed to be right. Without you and the people here my life would be dramatically different. I wouldn't know self help,I wouldn't have made sense out of the psychedelic experience and what love is and would've been stuck in victim mode. I wouldn't have a map in which direction to develope and would've missed all those concepts from what is love over spiral dynamics to epistimology and wouldn't know what a perspective is in order to let go. 

After some accident 2.5 years ago where I nearly died and shattered my feet and elbow and spend 11 months in a wheel chair I see this as a chance to change myself and build a more meaningful fulfilling life. I've become conscious of all the surpressed needs every human being has and I am slowly changing my trajectory  on my own pace from negativity, no hope, towards what I want in life.

There's a honest, loving and appreciating part inside me which is slowly growing bigger and bigger. My focus is on healing trauma, become more happy and building a new career and not misusing these things as a cope out to run away from life but rather to face life and overcoming my fears and insecurities. Because of my special situation I see myself in the responsibility like everyone else to figure the balance out for myself. 

I'm more interested in your older content but find the newer videos like those about holons are very useful because it's shows for example that one can always do something and it influences all the other areas for the better or worse. 

Besides my therapy, I find the techniques I aquired here like the emotional scale, affirmation, thought questioning, shadow work and especially grounding very useful for me and they make the therapy  way more effective. My therapist know that I use psychedelics every 3-4 months and I'm aware of set and setting. I meditate regularly and do mindfulness some yoga and when insights come, then they come and if not then it's ok, too. 

But I see as well that I first want to get rid of the toxic things in my life and have a stable basis before pursuing higher things and that might take another 5-10 years at least and I'm working on it. I have different sources to meet me at my current level. 

I have described my situation because of your latest video I see myself as one of the more special cases and i know that I have to decide what to applyand what not. I wasn't sure whether it's still okay to stick around and I want to show you and the people here my appreciation for the things I read here on the forum. If I didn't stumble upon these things I would've been fucked a lot. even as a follower of buddhism and meditator I wouldn't have a clue or map how to create a happy, conscious life. 

 

Edited by Seeker531

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Posted (edited)

13 hours ago, Elisabeth said:

This is super interesting and captivating, lots of valuable comments in this thread. 

I'm deeply sorry for the family of the deceased! Also, sending Leo some basic human compassion - he seems to be handling the fallout and evaluating responsibility just fine, but I imagine it must be emotionally difficult too.

I'm one of the people coming into spirituality from a place of depression (though not suicidal level) and anxiety, my core interests in personal development have been emotions, relationships, trauma healing. I'm greatful to Leo for introducing me to some philosophy and spirituality too :). My progress is slow, and I've been following since forever (2016), and awakening is still over my head. 

It would never occur to me to take Leo's teachings as promoting suicide. For me, they are fascinating! But I understand that spiritual concepts and experience can lead to confusion in some people. I've never personally experienced much of it just from listening - ideas on their own aren't very threatening to me. Experience is a different thing and can be deeply unsetteling. In terms of dealing with the dangers of spiritual teachings, I'm also happy and grateful to have people around me who have been part of i.e. the holotropic breathwork community. They are my guide as much as Leo is, and they help me balance some of Leo's bias.  

As for grievances, I've expressed my opinion on several topics in the past - the old relationship videos, the pick-up line of the forum, the repeated bashing of science and religion (which I'm sick and tired off) and other unnecessary repetition, the political commentary. Some videos on Leo's side interests or newly developing interests just don't have the quality of his core spiritual and philosophical content. (On the other hand, from my area of expertise, I very much appreciate the quantum mechanics series! :)) I've also recently expressed concern whether Leo has enough feedback from (or rather, shared investigation with) high-quality intellectuals in the social/politics domain, and I've been called insane :/ 

Leo, this may be a false impression, but it often seems from your videos like you don't talk about your insights and your journey to anyone at all. I'm just always so happy to hear you mention being at a retreat and talking to the teacher, or similar. We may be all imaginary or all one (I don't know what I'm talking about here), but in the relative domain, people need to relate to people as close to their level as possible. I don't think the forum is enough feedback for you. 

If there was some distinction between content for newbies and content for long-time viewers in the future, I would appreciate it.

Lastly, I'm organizing a students' personal development group at my faculty. I've struggled with my conscience on whether I can recommend actualized.org as a source of advice. So far I decided I can't. I'm not actually sure it would have a net positive effect on the students' lives if they started to dive into spirituality and psychedelics. It's a hard decision though, between authenticity and caution (coupled with fear). 

I totally agree with you about relatability. Personally, I think Leo should move away a bit from giving unbiased and clear and distinct insights just to show more about him as a person and generally become more relatable as a human being, because otherwise you can create so much distance between yourself and others that you could be perceived as "elitist" and therefore a cult leader.

I understand that he wants to give you the rawest insights you can get, and that's why he has a nakedly edgy attitude when he tells you facts and gives you insights.

But I feel he misses the opportunity to show himself as a human being and thus become more likeable and relatable.

E. G. I really enjoyed his video when he did a solo retreat at the cabin. Or the old videos with him and his legendary soup. I would really like to see more of that and think it would help him in the long run.

Edited by Vittorio

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Posted (edited)

I would be fucked without actualised.org. I appreciate all the work done here by Leo and his trusted band of merry men. #EnlightenedBeard

Edited by Aaron p

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, Vittorio said:

I totally agree with you about relatability. Personally, I think Leo should move away a bit from giving unbiased and clear and distinct insights just to show more about him as a person and generally become more relatable as a human being, because otherwise you can create so much distance between yourself and others that you could be perceived as "elitist" and therefore a cult leader.

I understand that he wants to give you the rawest insights you can get, and that's why he has a nakedly edgy attitude when he tells you facts and gives you insights.

But I feel he misses the opportunity to show himself as a human being and thus become more likeable and relatable.

E. G. I really enjoyed his video when he did a solo retreat at the cabin. Or the old videos with him and his legendary soup. I would really like to see more of that and think it would help him in the long run.

Thanks. Actually, it wasn't my point to suggest Leo should share more of himself on youtube, that could backfire, and it's his right to share as much as he feels up to. My point was, I hope Leo does have both close personal relationships (for the joy they bring - I'm coming from a place of care) and constructive critique/collaboration on the political topics he speaks about (for the quality of his content). 
But I also enjoy relatable personal stories. Like the intro to the old  "Ultimate model of human knowledge" video. It's a good video, one that I recommend a lot if I want to introduce someone to Leo's work. 

Edited by Elisabeth

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9 minutes ago, Aaron p said:

I would be fucked without actualised.org.

Same. When I had ego death I was so lost and alone with no one to explain to me what's happened, I thought I'm done with no way to figure myselfout. And then I accidentally came across actualised.org and my new life has begun. Thank you, Leo, with all my heart for what you do.


softly into the Abyss...

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Take what has meaning for you, at this moment in your life. Disregard everything else. What you disregard now may have profound meaning in the future. This has proven true for me. The insane suddenly makes sense. Go figure xD

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