Kushu2000

Unspirituality?

121 posts in this topic

@Maarten To me it seems (simply put) that Leo just does not take Zzenn seriously, does not like his approach to spirituality and is not interested in trying to interpret him or debate his views. And Leo uses his terminology (like materialistic devil) and generally the way he present himself to express this.

2 hours ago, Maarten said:

As such, when you say that the goal of the devil to spread ignorance, I interpret that as that their goal is to raise confusion (muddying of the waters as you call it). Yet what I'm claiming is that for every attempt the devil makes to do this, it should be possible that to instead of fighting his claims through force (which is the very same process the devil uses right?), instead an integration with this truth is possible that creates a higher truth which is inclusive of both truths, making it impossible for anyone listening to fight this truth because there is no logical denying it possible. The ultimate extrapolation of this would be a truth so all-inclusive that it includes everything that can ever be said, every story that can ever happen, etc.

Smells like dialectical thinking… I think Hegel would have something to say about this line of reasoning...

Well, after reding your post, what is there left to say (rhetoricall question :-))? Maybe that a real debate is possible only when there are at least two wiling participants, who agree to certain rules of logical reasoning (since you should use arguments in a debate). Otherwise there is no debate possible. For example, I would be very interested in seeing Leo debating (or just talking with) various people from "spiritual community" on various topics (for example like Zzenn did with Joseph Maynor - I saw all the Joseph's vids with him by the way), but this seems a little bit impossible precisely due to Leo's approach right now (and in the past also if I am not mistaken). To be clear - I do not see it as a problem or a some kind of Leo's flaw - that is just the way how I see Leo is and is presenting himself.

By the way, I think that Leo Gura - Sadhguru debate could be totally possible and doable (Sadhguru did interviews with London Real or Tom Bilyeu for example), but again, I highly doubt Leo would be interested (not sure abou money involved, that could possibly be the issue). But hey, from PR point of view, it would make totally sense, because their audiences definitely overlap in some ways! :-) Can you imagine Leo asking Sadhguru about psychedelics? I think that would be the bing bang happening right there :-D Also, it would be totally super interesting to see how would Leo and Sadhguru interact, where they both claim they have accessed dimensions of counciousness which are out of ordinary people's experience. I am just excited thinking about it!

Winterknight would be also a good pick for Leo's discussion video.

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6 hours ago, Maarten said:

Even though truth might not be the average of all perspectives, every perspective might be true relative to certain desires not?

There are many deeply deluded perspectives.

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So doesn't that make truth ultimately subjective?

No, actual Truth is not a concept, thought, idea, or perspective. It is what is.

Conceptual truths are partial and never complete. Conceptual truths are relative and subjective.

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And since reality is logical by very definition as everything is connected, doesn't that mean that a logical connection is possible between any two concepts?

Don't assume that reality is logical.

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If you had complete access to infinite intelligence, that would mean that you could instantly solve any conflict by creating logical connections between them that show that they're both true.

No necessarily.

First, access infinite intelligence, and then let's talk.

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Sort of like when you think you want 2 different things, e.g. you want to live both an expressive life and a passive life of meditation. One might think that those are conflicting interests only if they didn't see that they are complementary truths. One wouldn't make much sense without the other, and thus they can not just coexist, but they actually create a richness in what would otherwise be a rather bland experience (only appreciation would be rather colourless, and only expressivity wouldn't be very worthwhile).

It just seems to me that there is always an integration possible that includes two seemingly contradictory goals, in a manner that doesn't exclude anything (making it not a compromise, but a win-win situation).

Since reality is completely logical (meaning any statement can only be derived from a prior statements), doesn't that mean that complete falsehood is metaphysically impossible? I.e. regardless of how inclusive this statement is of other perspectives, it is still true relative to the goals of perspective that imagined them.

Your thinking is quite muddled here.

Many of your assumptions are groundless. Awakening is not about integrating various human worldviews.

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As such, when you say that the goal of the devil to spread ignorance, I interpret that as that their goal is to raise confusion (muddying of the waters as you call it). Yet what I'm claiming is that for every attempt the devil makes to do this, it should be possible that to instead of fighting his claims through force (which is the very same process the devil uses right?), instead an integration with this truth is possible that creates a higher truth which is inclusive of both truths, making it impossible for anyone listening to fight this truth because there is no logical denying it possible. The ultimate extrapolation of this would be a truth so all-inclusive that it includes everything that can ever be said, every story that can ever happen, etc.

There are far too many deluded worldviews on this planet to take them all seriously. You have limited time and attention. If you take every fool on this planet seriously, you will never awaken.

Cut the shit and go straight for awakening.

Access the Absolute Truth. Access Infinite Intelligence. It's possible. I've done it. Many others have too. There's nothing to debate here. You either do the practices or you are just clowning around.

That's what this entire thread is, clowning around.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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@Leo Gura Just curious, how is your embodiment work going? Are you less focused on it now?


"God is good, God is everything - the end. You go on with your illusion that something is not okay, and you lose, and you lose, and you lose.” — Byron Katie

 

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Posted (edited)

9 hours ago, Aakash said:

Just like how you don't see what both joseph and unspiritual as legitamate claims. Think about it. If your watching one of leo's videos and his title is "humanity is the bullshitting animal" your obviously going to think this guys a druggy and cult leader ahaha

It just does not make sense to me. The way he talks, I disagree with him. 

I am sorry I do not have time to write as much as you do. 

8 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I trust you watched all 3 videos before arriving at your conclusion.

Are you going to have a channel in the future? I've always wondered about it. Why don't you have your own channel if you have so many things to share?

I do not have time to watch these videos, sorry. 

Edited by Galyna

"All that we know is limited, something we don't - is infinite"

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@Kushu2000 This Zzenn guy is just as ignorant as the title of the channel promised.

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1 hour ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura Just curious, how is your embodiment work going? Are you less focused on it now?

Better than ever.

There is less efforting and more of just being myself.

I find that mechanical techniques actually just get in the way of being me.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Galyna said:

It just does not make sense to me. The way he talks, I disagree with him. 

I am sorry I do not have time to write as much as you do. 

Are you going to have a channel in the future? I've always wondered about it. Why don't you have your own channel if you have so many things to share?

Yes.  But I'm not desperate so I can do it very slowly.  I'm mostly just working on myself.  I wanna do the IPEC coaching school like Leo did and become a regular life coach on the side.  But I also wanna do courses and all that jazz.  My life is going great right now and I can do the slow move in that direction over time.  I'm not neurotic about sharing my insights.  I have a job that I like and have enough money.  I enjoy the practice of actual one-on-one life coaching.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I'm not neurotic about sharing my insights.

I've noticed this change in the past year.

Keep it up :x

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

I've noticed this change in the past year.

Keep it up :x

Yeah.  I went from the End Stage of my old chapter to the Limbo Stage to the beginning of the Start Stage of my new chapter.  All that took about 4 years.

 

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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Posted (edited)

Did anyone notice that in Zzen's video, he drank a smoothie similar to the one Leo showed us how to make? :) 

I've never tried psychadelics so am treating the video as a personal reminder that even though it's pretty cool to hear about these mystical states of consciousness, I don't actually understand or can relate to them myself.

I sometimes judge people on the sophistication or sensibility of their dialogue. Sloppy expressions of rhetoric turn me off. It seems worth acknowleding that Leo is very careful about what he says and uses plenty of caveats. In fact it's the first thing he does in the Collective Consciousness video . This indicates groundedness and is conveniently ignored by critics.

The conscious politics videos should indicate that, wild awakenings aside, Leo hasn't lost any of his intellect or composure. A cynic might say that such reassurances shouldn't be necessary and that those who need them will filter them out anyway. I wonder what I'm filtering out.

Oh, love. If Zzen actually cared, he'd have acted out of real concern rather than making a bitchy YouTube video unless he wasn't particularly skilled at acting lovingly, which is possible as most people aren't, or unless my own understanding of love is overly-simplistic, which is also possible. I'm talking from my humble experience of love with a small "l" here, rather than love with a capital "L".

Edited by Dan502

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2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

 

This video didn't resonate much at all, felt like an attempt to bridge classic actualized.org content with the spirituality love and consciousness theme of the current era.

Since life is non-linear, illogical and counter-intuitive. Learning math or a foreign language progresses with cumulative experience, but the human experience goes up, down, backwards, fast-forward upside-down, inside-out, twisted around and meta. Change seems to happen over decades and also in the blink of an eye, and the more maturity and experience developed, the more childish wonder and radical open-mindedness occurs alongside this.

Can understand though if someone takes their 'self' and life seriously and has had normal progression through education, employment, socialization and relationships. having made consistent progress within their perception of reality. Seems like there has never been a grounded perception of "myself" or "objective reality" to begin with, so that precluded taking the human experience seriously and pursuing personal development from the conventional path. Either that or I was so entrenched in my victimhood mindset and sense of self that it prevented me from pursuing success, until I don't take the human experience seriously at all, then it's all reframed as an experience of infinite love. Without even gauging how directly immersed it is, but not a belief, a deep understanding and acceptance, makes perfect sense whether I believe it or don't. From this place meanings, emotions, life and death, success or failure, utility and wastefulness, it doesn't matter. It's all groundless, all my memories are imaginary, that is literally my direct experience, my ego might as well have been born a microsecond ago, and it doesn't matter what will happen to it.  Why would it not then just create itself and create creations, it has nothing to lose. 

If all I've said, all that Leo has said, every teaching, ever book, every video, every word is word, false, deluded, it doesn't matter. This is like Pascal's Wager 2.0. If there is actually nothing, then there is just nothing.

 

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Posted (edited)

@XYZ  I wanna get into Hero's Journey Theory more.  This system is all about putting your life within the framework of a created story or fiction book.  It's a useful tool to get into and to tinker with.  I've made it an objective to get into this tool more.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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Posted (edited)

@XYZ  My Hero's Journey is different from Leo's.  That's what's great about Hero's Journey work is you can write your own story.  I've never been much into storytelling and mythology, but maybe I should get more into that.  The Collective Unconscious contains about all the story templates we need if we can locate them.  Human stories about living the good life are nothing new under the sun.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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I love how the hero's journey video ends.

“The village has disappeared in the evening mist 
And the path is hard to follow. 
Walking through the pines, 
I return to my lonely hut.”
―Ryōkan


Light on Earth The power of love came into me,
and I became fierce like a lion,
then tender like the evening star.” - Rumi

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@Leo Gura Could you elaborate on why you think the stages you've reached are beyond what most are capable of. I mean the people on this forum are far more conscious that average people, and what if they did the same amount of work you did, or double. It's not like you were accessing higher states of consciousness than others before you started the work. Yes, you have gone deeper than lots of other teachers, faster too, but what if we are using your methods?

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On 20.7.2019 at 4:58 PM, Leo Gura said:

Better than ever.

There is less efforting and more of just being myself.

I find that mechanical techniques actually just get in the way of being me.

Have you ever looked in to chakras? There is so much bullshit and woo on the subject, but I actually think it offers a quite holistic framework to spiritual development. What you're describing here is mostly associated to the opening of the 2nd chakra, svadhistana. I can definitely recommend the book "Eastern Body, Western Mind" by Anodea Judith.

Also, do you plan on doing a video on embodiment work? That's something I'm very interested in.

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@Commodent Got any actual good resources on working with chakras? There's lots of conflicting stuff and I never know what to follow. 

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@Shadowraix I personally found the book I mentioned ("Eastern Body, Western Mind") a pretty good resource, as it goes through all the chakras from bottom to top and is very in depth. I'm not sure what to think of the practices but the theory is good.

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