Kushu2000

Unspirituality?

121 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

2 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

Projection

Care to substantiate?

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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31 minutes ago, Kushu2000 said:

@Leo Gura so what is your suggestion of getting to the place of "infinite love"?

You have been told a plethora of spiritual techniques. Use whichever you like. I have no dog in the race.

Quote

Are you going to start suggesting all of your audience to smoke 5meo dmt?

I have already suggested that. Not all, but those who are responsible, mature, and ready.

It would be foolish not to utilize such a powerful tool if you are reasonably healthy, responsible, and mature.

I don't have a problem introducing people to the psychedelic path. That's part of my path. If you don't like this path, then follow some other path.

Quote

you've placed yourself in a position where it feels like all of us are "never going to reach the heights of YOUR levels of consciousness" unless ofc we do 5 meo and keep doing it

I cannot lie, accessing some of the stuff I've accessed would not be possible otherwise for most people. It just is what it is. I didn't design it this way. Or maybe I did.

Quote

it seems as if this is truly the only way to get to the "heights" that you've been able to access. 

There's more than one way to get there. Use whichever methods suit you.

I am here to pioneer and document a new type of path. I have no interest in rehashing traditional paths.

Quote

Also, isn't consistently putting yourself in these trance states a form of spiritual bypassing?

No

And there is no "trance" to it any more than any other state of consciousness.

17 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You seem to be at war with yourself.

Perhaps it seems that way to you.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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Just now, Leo Gura said:

Perhaps it seems that way to you.

Interesting.  

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@Leo Gura thanks.  Btw, did you ever get the chance to ask Martin Ball whether he was able to access the levels you've accessed?

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6 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

@Richard Alpert I mentioned the moon as an analogy.

But, since you ask, the answer is "I don't know."

And if you were really honest, that would be your answer also.

Notice, RIGHT NOW, that in your direct experience, you do not perceive anything "behind" you.

Now, if you were to turn around, you might say that what was "behind" you is now visible.

And once again if you turned back to your original orientation, "behind" is once again invisible.

Where did all the forms go?

"Well, they're behind me!"

Nope. That's a mental map you constructed. Do you understand that? 

For all you know, what's "behind" you might physically cease to exist while you are not aware of it.

When you turn back around, it spontaneously materializes.

Now, I'm not saying that's what actually happens. What I am saying, though, is that there are gaps in your certainty of reality and you fill them with thought stories.

What happens to the forms behind you when you do not see them?

Well, you imagine that they continue to exist while not being observed.

Key word, imagine. You have no way of verifying this.

In order to imagine this, you literally invent "you," "perceptual field/vision," "objects," "space/location," and "time."

I am telling you that these things literally do not exist.

So what does exist??

 

Imagine this (lol): Let's pretend "direct experience" is like a a big canvas. The forms you see are paint on that canvas.

So as you turn around, the paint changes. In fact, as you live life, the paint is constantly changing.

The whole process is so mysterious that you, that being the curious little cat you are, you MUST explain it to yourself.

So what do you do? You start calling the paint "objects." When the paint changes, you tell yourself that these are different objects that are being perceived by you.

In doing this, however, you lose sight of the canvas. You only see the paint.

Try to get in touch with the canvas. The experience as it happens prior to your mind projecting all sorts of conceptions.

 

So once again, 

Notice, RIGHT NOW, that in your direct experience, you do not perceive anything "behind" you.

Your direct experience is your direct experience. The canvas regardless of the paint.

Now, if you were to turn around, you might say that what was "behind" you is now visible.

Your direct experience is your direct experience. The canvas regardless of the paint. Turning around does not change this.

And once again if you turned back to your original orientation, "behind" is once again invisible.

Where did all the forms go?

No, they are NOT "behind you."

And if you are adamantly going to insist that they are, at least admit that you are imagining it and that you are taking a blind leap of faith.

The "external world" is NOT obvious. It is NOT common sense.

If you were really really really honest, when I ask, "where did all the forms go?"

You would say "I don't know."

 

And not knowing, my friend, is both the starting point as well as the whole journey.

 

 

Thank you for the comment. I love how you put it. I really enjoy reading such things, it makes me so mindful. :)


"All that we know is limited, something we don't - is infinite"

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@Joseph Maynor

Just watched your video with the guy debating about Enlightenment.

Please explain your stance. I do not have time to watch all three series. Are you trying to say that Enlightenment is just a way to escape depression about inevitable death? Sorry, Joseph, but when you talk there is no algorithm. You try to encapsulate a lot of things and integrate them into one idea. Please, can you decipher?

Thank you. 


"All that we know is limited, something we don't - is infinite"

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Posted (edited)

@Galyna I watched the video's. His main point was basically ... Leo went through a troubling child hood and picked up traumas which has lead him to become a revolutionist. They both agreed that this is from a place of pathology. Given the content of Leo's stance that he's saying normal life is basically complete devilry. They then went onto say, that being human is essentially just what it is, to live a human life and not become an over fantasised god. 

They are actually relatively speaking valid points from the human realm. However, they don't stand the rigidity test when reaching trans-human realms. What can be seen as crude love for any number of reasons, when purified can turn into purified love. 

Thus from both sides, nothing wrong was said 

its just like leo says, you can't tell a donkey that he's god. 

Plus its eventually come to the point, where he has no choice but to point out the ridiculous comments that leo makes, to gain his own financial freedom. He seems to have some experience in spirituality, but he was not a serious practitioner as some others. So in a sense, from a spiritual perspective, his viewpoints may seem valid to the average listener. its simply the case that you can never comment on something you don't know. So he's making speculations from his own limited point of view about things that are way above him. Aka devilry and judgement. 

None the less, he's right to do whatever he wishes to because he's trying to survive. To make a whole channel on criticism of spirituality is a niche market, he just decided to monopolise it. ingenious actually. I give him props. You'd only be fooling yourself taking him seriously. But its as @ajaysatya says, take what ever you feel useful and scrap the rest , then move on. 

Edited by Aakash

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Posted (edited)

@Aakash  Well, if we are brutally honest, about only 1% of the people on this Earth have normal parents, but not all of us want to become revolutionists, correct? So this theory does not work. Why? Because teenagers raising other teenagers. There are few mature people on Earth. My coach and I talk about it all the time, how our society is bounded by mechanical reactions and responses. There are not very many people that are truly mindful about their motives, behavior, various mechanisms that trigger those responses.  

I agree that he can not know everything, he has his own mistakes. But, I feel like Joseph always tries to "trace his steps", and then flip all the info he is saying upside down. Male competition? Probably. 

"Given the content of Leo's stance that he's saying normal life is basically complete devilry." - this is not what he is saying. I guess it all boils down to our cognitive abilities. 

Joseph and a guy describe the world and extrapolate from the objective point of view, however, it is very subjective apriori.  They separate the perceiver from the perception. But how can we debate about the Universe, humans, creatures and so on, if all that we know are deeply engraved in our intimate experience, therefore we know nothing that lies beyond our perceptual field? 

Joseph, please do not be upset about my comment :) 

Edited by Galyna
Mistake

"All that we know is limited, something we don't - is infinite"

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Posted (edited)

@Galyna LOL male competition, No joseph is just a skeptic, but he has not learnt how to get out of the material paradigm. Which is his choice, he knows there are several paradigms above his own. So its just his own skepticism through his own paradigm. Which allows him to be in agree with unspirituality dude. 

22 minutes ago, Galyna said:

Well, if we are brutally honest, about only 1% of the people on this Earth have normal parents, but not all of us want to become revolutionists, correct? So this theory does not work. Why? Because teenagers raising other teenagers. There are few mature people on Earth. My coach and I talk about it all the time, how our society is bounded by mechanical reactions and responses. There are not very many people that are truly mindful about their motives, behavior, various mechanisms that trigger those responses.  

I don't know, i was interested in it because i was a revolutionist myself. I thought about it and considered they could be right. However, it didn't matter in the end, it comes from a position of selflessness eventually. For example, mines was to prove i'm the smartest person in the world for myself LOL, but it doesn't mean the intentions were not real. its just a statement that has grounds within the material paradigm. I've been connected to humanity collective consciousness from the age of 12, not sure personally about leo's point of view. However, it's just something a materalist can't understand, which has already been proven to me... because the people around me don't have the aspiration. But there is a difference between even me and leo, I still have my devilry with my ego... He's lost his ego i can only presume. Which makes their claims even more false LOL.

which ever the best way to help, you do it. its not about personal biasis. if its to tell people they're god then so be it. 

In the end, the person who is going to become a revolunist is always going to be called pathological by a materialist. Because their goal isn't material success, money, sex, human activity, human love, business. 

LOL the funny thing is joseph is the one who watches the most hours of leo's videos. ironic. so its coming from a respectful place

22 minutes ago, Galyna said:

"Given the content of Leo's stance that he's saying normal life is basically complete devilry." - this is not what he is saying. I have been watching him for 5 years, but I have never perceived it this way. I guess it all boils down to our cognitive abilities. 

Joseph and a guy describe the world and extrapolate from the objective point of view, however, it is very subjective apriori.  They separate the perceiver from the perception. But how can we debate about the Universe, humans, creatures and so on, if all that we know are deeply engraved in our intimate experience, therefore we know nothing that lies beyond our perceptual field? 

It is what it is a paradigm, Psychology is psychology, beliefs are beliefs. 

Just like how you don't see what both joseph and unspiritual as legitamate claims. Think about it. If your watching one of leo's videos and his title is "humanity is the bullshitting animal" your obviously going to think this guys a druggy and cult leader ahaha

Edited by Aakash

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Posted (edited)

@Galyna  I trust you watched all 3 videos before arriving at your conclusion.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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Posted (edited)

@Joseph Maynor The floor is open to you sir, I look forward to seeing how you reply to her. I'm just trying to show your points are valid at a human level of interaction. its like i said, i am aware that i am still a devil 

Edited by Aakash

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Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Joseph Maynor The floor is open to you sir, I look forward to seeing how you reply to her. I'm just trying to show your points are valid at a human level of interaction. its like i said, i am aware that i am still a devil 

I have no need or desire to defend myself.  Those videos were made and they are a snapshot of where I was at that time in my growth.  There are some ways I have grown recently that would cause me to change some of the things I said in those videos, but only on a couple of points.  In fact, making those videos kinda spurred me to grow.  So, learn from them if they help you, but don't spend your Friday night obsessing over my monkey-chatter, that would make me feel guilty.  My thinking has evolved on a couple of points since then.  I've done a huge amount of personal/ interpersonal development work since I've come back from India.  My conclusions have shifted most notably on the topics of (1) The Authentic Self, (2) Knowing Who You Are, and (3) Aligning With The Good.  I'll write about ways my thought has changed since I did those three videos in my Journal this weekend.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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@Joseph Maynor Thats cool, of course that's something i can never account for. I'm glad to hear. Nonetheless, 

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

but only on a couple of points.  

oddly enough, i agree with this. its like i said, at a human level of interaction. The points were completely valid. There is actually no reason for people to become god, we mustn't forget that it is still itself, only a perspective currently in this time in history. 

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Posted (edited)

26 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Joseph Maynor Thats cool, of course that's something i can never account for. I'm glad to hear. Nonetheless, 

oddly enough, i agree with this. its like i said, at a human level of interaction. The points were completely valid. There is actually no reason for people to become god, we mustn't forget that it is still itself, only a perspective currently in this time in history. 

It takes a while to figure it out.  That's why its called the Path.  There are a lot of dimensions to this work.  But at the core of this work is Knowing Yourself.  That's not the only work that you need to do, but that's the core of the work.  From knowing yourself -- knowing the Good emerges; and from knowing the Good -- knowing what to do emerges.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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@Joseph Maynor yup totally agree. I like to put it simply as: 

the need to have a firm grounding in all major parts of your life. Whatever you choose them to be 

, business, spirituality, knowledge, interpersonal work etc.. 

All are equally as important 

but ultimately the core is to become it yourself. 

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Posted (edited)

6 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Joseph Maynor yup totally agree. I like to put it simply as: 

the need to have a firm grounding in all major parts of your life. Whatever you choose them to be 

, business, spirituality, knowledge, interpersonal work etc.. 

All are equally as important 

but ultimately the core is to become it yourself. 

And anybody who thinks they've reached the end of the Path are probably wrong too.  One of the biggest traps is to believe you're "done" on the Path.  

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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Posted (edited)

@Kushu2000 quantum mechanics has been proven to shatter these ideals of the physical world as we know it. The very technology that we are using to converse on this website would not have existed without holding the the proven facts about how all the small particles in our world have these unexplainable, but true qualities.

Since we are made up of these particles, who's to say that there cant be a possibility that Leo is right, or wrong ? :D

I really dont expect you to be open to this because of your previous replies but I do have hope that there is a possibility you will :)

Researching quantum mechanics and learning about the principles will help.

Edited by Becks

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Posted (edited)

@Joseph Maynor I actually have no clue. Maybe there's an end to the real path , maybe there's not. 

But there's no end to minor improvements to improve the quality of ones life. 

it is as some like to say a never-ending-cycle 

The only thing you can do is plan a stopping point where you can say "I've done enough" 

You will get old and you will get tired of developing

Which ultimately makes you cycle back to the core pathway. 

Its tricky, to say the least. The balancing act of all balancing act. 

We all want comfort, the boundaries are just varied. However, ultimately we will all seek the absolute in the end 

To which you would like there to be an end 

To which god will give you a legitimate end point which you will think is total. 

This is my current view

where does the morality lie, does one let the finish line come to him or does he run to the finish line when they have past the point of no return and become completely selfless. 

Edited by Aakash

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Maarten Truth is not the average of all perspectives. If only it were so easy! Truth is much more tricky than that.

If I were to compromise with a materialist devil, I would only debase myself. It's the devil's strategy to get you to compromise with him. He will kick and scream to get you to take him seriously.

Remember, all that a devil has to do to win is muddly the waters. That's the game here. The devil cannot win in actuality because he is coming from falsehood. The devil wins by getting you distracted from Truth and Love.

Hmm, I don't think I quite understand.

Even though truth might not be the average of all perspectives, every perspective might be true relative to certain desires not? So doesn't that make truth ultimately subjective? And since reality is logical by very definition as everything is connected, doesn't that mean that a logical connection is possible between any two concepts? You would only compromise if your intelligence is limited would you not? If you had complete access to infinite intelligence, that would mean that you could instantly solve any conflict by creating logical connections between them that show that they're both true.

Sort of like when you think you want 2 different things, e.g. you want to live both an expressive life and a passive life of meditation. One might think that those are conflicting interests only if they didn't see that they are complementary truths. One wouldn't make much sense without the other, and thus they can not just coexist, but they actually create a richness in what would otherwise be a rather bland experience (only appreciation would be rather colourless, and only expressivity wouldn't be very worthwhile).

It just seems to me that there is always an integration possible that includes two seemingly contradictory goals, in a manner that doesn't exclude anything (making it not a compromise, but a win-win situation).

Since reality is completely logical (meaning any statement can only be derived from a prior statements), doesn't that mean that complete falsehood is metaphysically impossible? I.e. regardless of how inclusive this statement is of other perspectives, it is still true relative to the goals of perspective that imagined them.

As such, when you say that the goal of the devil to spread ignorance, I interpret that as that their goal is to raise confusion (muddying of the waters as you call it). Yet what I'm claiming is that for every attempt the devil makes to do this, it should be possible that to instead of fighting his claims through force (which is the very same process the devil uses right?), instead an integration with this truth is possible that creates a higher truth which is inclusive of both truths, making it impossible for anyone listening to fight this truth because there is no logical denying it possible. The ultimate extrapolation of this would be a truth so all-inclusive that it includes everything that can ever be said, every story that can ever happen, etc.

If this is the way reality works, then isn't a devil nothing but a limited intelligence with attachments that keep it from integrating with the rest of reality? Of course he would kick and scream if you try to convince him to surrender, that is only understandable considering his perspective. Yet my claim is that there is no need to fight his goals if only your solution is intelligent enough (and I guess it's more of a faith, as my intelligence is limited, so I can't have a complete awareness that what I'm claiming is true, but it's logically impossible to disprove it).

Another implication of what I'm saying is that there are no evil-doers, only needy seekers of limited intelligence that waltz over other perspectives because of their limitedness. This is because in this reality there is no effect without cause, so even the devil must have a reason for his devilishness, which is fundamentally that he is in a seemingly eternal pain.

Edited by Maarten
Bettered

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