Kushu2000

Unspirituality?

113 posts in this topic

@Galyna LOL male competition, No joseph is just a skeptic, but he has not learnt how to get out of the material paradigm. Which is his choice, he knows there are several paradigms above his own. So its just his own skepticism through his own paradigm. Which allows him to be in agree with unspirituality dude. 

22 minutes ago, Galyna said:

Well, if we are brutally honest, about only 1% of the people on this Earth have normal parents, but not all of us want to become revolutionists, correct? So this theory does not work. Why? Because teenagers raising other teenagers. There are few mature people on Earth. My coach and I talk about it all the time, how our society is bounded by mechanical reactions and responses. There are not very many people that are truly mindful about their motives, behavior, various mechanisms that trigger those responses.  

I don't know, i was interested in it because i was a revolutionist myself. I thought about it and considered they could be right. However, it didn't matter in the end, it comes from a position of selflessness eventually. For example, mines was to prove i'm the smartest person in the world for myself LOL, but it doesn't mean the intentions were not real. its just a statement that has grounds within the material paradigm. I've been connected to humanity collective consciousness from the age of 12, not sure personally about leo's point of view. However, it's just something a materalist can't understand, which has already been proven to me... because the people around me don't have the aspiration. But there is a difference between even me and leo, I still have my devilry with my ego... He's lost his ego i can only presume. Which makes their claims even more false LOL.

which ever the best way to help, you do it. its not about personal biasis. if its to tell people they're god then so be it. 

In the end, the person who is going to become a revolunist is always going to be called pathological by a materialist. Because their goal isn't material success, money, sex, human activity, human love, business. 

LOL the funny thing is joseph is the one who watches the most hours of leo's videos. ironic. so its coming from a respectful place

22 minutes ago, Galyna said:

"Given the content of Leo's stance that he's saying normal life is basically complete devilry." - this is not what he is saying. I have been watching him for 5 years, but I have never perceived it this way. I guess it all boils down to our cognitive abilities. 

Joseph and a guy describe the world and extrapolate from the objective point of view, however, it is very subjective apriori.  They separate the perceiver from the perception. But how can we debate about the Universe, humans, creatures and so on, if all that we know are deeply engraved in our intimate experience, therefore we know nothing that lies beyond our perceptual field? 

It is what it is a paradigm, Psychology is psychology, beliefs are beliefs. 

Just like how you don't see what both joseph and unspiritual as legitamate claims. Think about it. If your watching one of leo's videos and his title is "humanity is the bullshitting animal" your obviously going to think this guys a druggy and cult leader ahaha

Edited by Aakash

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@Galyna  I trust you watched all 3 videos before arriving at your conclusion.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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@Joseph Maynor The floor is open to you sir, I look forward to seeing how you reply to her. I'm just trying to show your points are valid at a human level of interaction. its like i said, i am aware that i am still a devil 

Edited by Aakash

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9 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Joseph Maynor The floor is open to you sir, I look forward to seeing how you reply to her. I'm just trying to show your points are valid at a human level of interaction. its like i said, i am aware that i am still a devil 

I have no need or desire to defend myself.  Those videos were made and they are a snapshot of where I was at that time in my growth.  There are some ways I have grown recently that would cause me to change some of the things I said in those videos, but only on a couple of points.  In fact, making those videos kinda spurred me to grow.  So, learn from them if they help you, but don't spend your Friday night obsessing over my monkey-chatter, that would make me feel guilty.  My thinking has evolved on a couple of points since then.  I've done a huge amount of personal/ interpersonal development work since I've come back from India.  My conclusions have shifted most notably on the topics of (1) The Authentic Self, (2) Knowing Who You Are, and (3) Aligning With The Good.  I'll write about ways my thought has changed since I did those three videos in my Journal this weekend.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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@Joseph Maynor Thats cool, of course that's something i can never account for. I'm glad to hear. Nonetheless, 

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

but only on a couple of points.  

oddly enough, i agree with this. its like i said, at a human level of interaction. The points were completely valid. There is actually no reason for people to become god, we mustn't forget that it is still itself, only a perspective currently in this time in history. 

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26 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Joseph Maynor Thats cool, of course that's something i can never account for. I'm glad to hear. Nonetheless, 

oddly enough, i agree with this. its like i said, at a human level of interaction. The points were completely valid. There is actually no reason for people to become god, we mustn't forget that it is still itself, only a perspective currently in this time in history. 

It takes a while to figure it out.  That's why its called the Path.  There are a lot of dimensions to this work.  But at the core of this work is Knowing Yourself.  That's not the only work that you need to do, but that's the core of the work.  From knowing yourself -- knowing the Good emerges; and from knowing the Good -- knowing what to do emerges.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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@Joseph Maynor yup totally agree. I like to put it simply as: 

the need to have a firm grounding in all major parts of your life. Whatever you choose them to be 

, business, spirituality, knowledge, interpersonal work etc.. 

All are equally as important 

but ultimately the core is to become it yourself. 

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6 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Joseph Maynor yup totally agree. I like to put it simply as: 

the need to have a firm grounding in all major parts of your life. Whatever you choose them to be 

, business, spirituality, knowledge, interpersonal work etc.. 

All are equally as important 

but ultimately the core is to become it yourself. 

And anybody who thinks they've reached the end of the Path are probably wrong too.  One of the biggest traps is to believe you're "done" on the Path.  

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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@Kushu2000 quantum mechanics has been proven to shatter these ideals of the physical world as we know it. The very technology that we are using to converse on this website would not have existed without holding the the proven facts about how all the small particles in our world have these unexplainable, but true qualities.

Since we are made up of these particles, who's to say that there cant be a possibility that Leo is right, or wrong ? :D

I really dont expect you to be open to this because of your previous replies but I do have hope that there is a possibility you will :)

Researching quantum mechanics and learning about the principles will help.

Edited by Becks

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@Joseph Maynor I actually have no clue. Maybe there's an end to the real path , maybe there's not. 

But there's no end to minor improvements to improve the quality of ones life. 

it is as some like to say a never-ending-cycle 

The only thing you can do is plan a stopping point where you can say "I've done enough" 

You will get old and you will get tired of developing

Which ultimately makes you cycle back to the core pathway. 

Its tricky, to say the least. The balancing act of all balancing act. 

We all want comfort, the boundaries are just varied. However, ultimately we will all seek the absolute in the end 

To which you would like there to be an end 

To which god will give you a legitimate end point which you will think is total. 

This is my current view

where does the morality lie, does one let the finish line come to him or does he run to the finish line when they have past the point of no return and become completely selfless. 

Edited by Aakash

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6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Maarten Truth is not the average of all perspectives. If only it were so easy! Truth is much more tricky than that.

If I were to compromise with a materialist devil, I would only debase myself. It's the devil's strategy to get you to compromise with him. He will kick and scream to get you to take him seriously.

Remember, all that a devil has to do to win is muddly the waters. That's the game here. The devil cannot win in actuality because he is coming from falsehood. The devil wins by getting you distracted from Truth and Love.

Hmm, I don't think I quite understand.

Even though truth might not be the average of all perspectives, every perspective might be true relative to certain desires not? So doesn't that make truth ultimately subjective? And since reality is logical by very definition as everything is connected, doesn't that mean that a logical connection is possible between any two concepts? You would only compromise if your intelligence is limited would you not? If you had complete access to infinite intelligence, that would mean that you could instantly solve any conflict by creating logical connections between them that show that they're both true.

Sort of like when you think you want 2 different things, e.g. you want to live both an expressive life and a passive life of meditation. One might think that those are conflicting interests only if they didn't see that they are complementary truths. One wouldn't make much sense without the other, and thus they can not just coexist, but they actually create a richness in what would otherwise be a rather bland experience (only appreciation would be rather colourless, and only expressivity wouldn't be very worthwhile).

It just seems to me that there is always an integration possible that includes two seemingly contradictory goals, in a manner that doesn't exclude anything (making it not a compromise, but a win-win situation).

Since reality is completely logical (meaning any statement can only be derived from a prior statements), doesn't that mean that complete falsehood is metaphysically impossible? I.e. regardless of how inclusive this statement is of other perspectives, it is still true relative to the goals of perspective that imagined them.

As such, when you say that the goal of the devil to spread ignorance, I interpret that as that their goal is to raise confusion (muddying of the waters as you call it). Yet what I'm claiming is that for every attempt the devil makes to do this, it should be possible that to instead of fighting his claims through force (which is the very same process the devil uses right?), instead an integration with this truth is possible that creates a higher truth which is inclusive of both truths, making it impossible for anyone listening to fight this truth because there is no logical denying it possible. The ultimate extrapolation of this would be a truth so all-inclusive that it includes everything that can ever be said, every story that can ever happen, etc.

If this is the way reality works, then isn't a devil nothing but a limited intelligence with attachments that keep it from integrating with the rest of reality? Of course he would kick and scream if you try to convince him to surrender, that is only understandable considering his perspective. Yet my claim is that there is no need to fight his goals if only your solution is intelligent enough (and I guess it's more of a faith, as my intelligence is limited, so I can't have a complete awareness that what I'm claiming is true, but it's logically impossible to disprove it).

Another implication of what I'm saying is that there are no evil-doers, only needy seekers of limited intelligence that waltz over other perspectives because of their limitedness. This is because in this reality there is no effect without cause, so even the devil must have a reason for his devilishness, which is fundamentally that he is in a seemingly eternal pain.

Edited by Maarten
Bettered

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@Maarten To me it seems (simply put) that Leo just does not take Zzenn seriously, does not like his approach to spirituality and is not interested in trying to interpret him or debate his views. And Leo uses his terminology (like materialistic devil) and generally the way he present himself to express this.

2 hours ago, Maarten said:

As such, when you say that the goal of the devil to spread ignorance, I interpret that as that their goal is to raise confusion (muddying of the waters as you call it). Yet what I'm claiming is that for every attempt the devil makes to do this, it should be possible that to instead of fighting his claims through force (which is the very same process the devil uses right?), instead an integration with this truth is possible that creates a higher truth which is inclusive of both truths, making it impossible for anyone listening to fight this truth because there is no logical denying it possible. The ultimate extrapolation of this would be a truth so all-inclusive that it includes everything that can ever be said, every story that can ever happen, etc.

Smells like dialectical thinking… I think Hegel would have something to say about this line of reasoning...

Well, after reding your post, what is there left to say (rhetoricall question :-))? Maybe that a real debate is possible only when there are at least two wiling participants, who agree to certain rules of logical reasoning (since you should use arguments in a debate). Otherwise there is no debate possible. For example, I would be very interested in seeing Leo debating (or just talking with) various people from "spiritual community" on various topics (for example like Zzenn did with Joseph Maynor - I saw all the Joseph's vids with him by the way), but this seems a little bit impossible precisely due to Leo's approach right now (and in the past also if I am not mistaken). To be clear - I do not see it as a problem or a some kind of Leo's flaw - that is just the way how I see Leo is and is presenting himself.

By the way, I think that Leo Gura - Sadhguru debate could be totally possible and doable (Sadhguru did interviews with London Real or Tom Bilyeu for example), but again, I highly doubt Leo would be interested (not sure abou money involved, that could possibly be the issue). But hey, from PR point of view, it would make totally sense, because their audiences definitely overlap in some ways! :-) Can you imagine Leo asking Sadhguru about psychedelics? I think that would be the bing bang happening right there :-D Also, it would be totally super interesting to see how would Leo and Sadhguru interact, where they both claim they have accessed dimensions of counciousness which are out of ordinary people's experience. I am just excited thinking about it!

Winterknight would be also a good pick for Leo's discussion video.

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6 hours ago, Maarten said:

Even though truth might not be the average of all perspectives, every perspective might be true relative to certain desires not?

There are many deeply deluded perspectives.

Quote

So doesn't that make truth ultimately subjective?

No, actual Truth is not a concept, thought, idea, or perspective. It is what is.

Conceptual truths are partial and never complete. Conceptual truths are relative and subjective.

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And since reality is logical by very definition as everything is connected, doesn't that mean that a logical connection is possible between any two concepts?

Don't assume that reality is logical.

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If you had complete access to infinite intelligence, that would mean that you could instantly solve any conflict by creating logical connections between them that show that they're both true.

No necessarily.

First, access infinite intelligence, and then let's talk.

Quote

Sort of like when you think you want 2 different things, e.g. you want to live both an expressive life and a passive life of meditation. One might think that those are conflicting interests only if they didn't see that they are complementary truths. One wouldn't make much sense without the other, and thus they can not just coexist, but they actually create a richness in what would otherwise be a rather bland experience (only appreciation would be rather colourless, and only expressivity wouldn't be very worthwhile).

It just seems to me that there is always an integration possible that includes two seemingly contradictory goals, in a manner that doesn't exclude anything (making it not a compromise, but a win-win situation).

Since reality is completely logical (meaning any statement can only be derived from a prior statements), doesn't that mean that complete falsehood is metaphysically impossible? I.e. regardless of how inclusive this statement is of other perspectives, it is still true relative to the goals of perspective that imagined them.

Your thinking is quite muddled here.

Many of your assumptions are groundless. Awakening is not about integrating various human worldviews.

Quote

As such, when you say that the goal of the devil to spread ignorance, I interpret that as that their goal is to raise confusion (muddying of the waters as you call it). Yet what I'm claiming is that for every attempt the devil makes to do this, it should be possible that to instead of fighting his claims through force (which is the very same process the devil uses right?), instead an integration with this truth is possible that creates a higher truth which is inclusive of both truths, making it impossible for anyone listening to fight this truth because there is no logical denying it possible. The ultimate extrapolation of this would be a truth so all-inclusive that it includes everything that can ever be said, every story that can ever happen, etc.

There are far too many deluded worldviews on this planet to take them all seriously. You have limited time and attention. If you take every fool on this planet seriously, you will never awaken.

Cut the shit and go straight for awakening.

Access the Absolute Truth. Access Infinite Intelligence. It's possible. I've done it. Many others have too. There's nothing to debate here. You either do the practices or you are just clowning around.

That's what this entire thread is, clowning around.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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@Leo Gura Just curious, how is your embodiment work going? Are you less focused on it now?


"Not believing your own thoughts, you’re free from the primal desire: the thought that reality should be different than it is. You realise the wordless, the unthinkable. You understand that any mystery is only what you yourself have created. In fact, there’s no mystery. Everything is as clear as day. It’s simple, because there really isn’t anything. There’s only the story appearing now. And not even that.” — Byron Katie

 

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9 hours ago, Aakash said:

Just like how you don't see what both joseph and unspiritual as legitamate claims. Think about it. If your watching one of leo's videos and his title is "humanity is the bullshitting animal" your obviously going to think this guys a druggy and cult leader ahaha

It just does not make sense to me. The way he talks, I disagree with him. 

I am sorry I do not have time to write as much as you do. 

8 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I trust you watched all 3 videos before arriving at your conclusion.

Are you going to have a channel in the future? I've always wondered about it. Why don't you have your own channel if you have so many things to share?

I do not have time to watch these videos, sorry. 

Edited by Galyna

"All that we know is limited, something we don't - is infinite"

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1 hour ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura Just curious, how is your embodiment work going? Are you less focused on it now?

Better than ever.

There is less efforting and more of just being myself.

I find that mechanical techniques actually just get in the way of being me.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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2 hours ago, Galyna said:

It just does not make sense to me. The way he talks, I disagree with him. 

I am sorry I do not have time to write as much as you do. 

Are you going to have a channel in the future? I've always wondered about it. Why don't you have your own channel if you have so many things to share?

Yes.  But I'm not desperate so I can do it very slowly.  I'm mostly just working on myself.  I wanna do the IPEC coaching school like Leo did and become a regular life coach on the side.  But I also wanna do courses and all that jazz.  My life is going great right now and I can do the slow move in that direction over time.  I'm not neurotic about sharing my insights.  I have a job that I like and have enough money.  I enjoy the practice of actual one-on-one life coaching.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I'm not neurotic about sharing my insights.

I've noticed this change in the past year.

Keep it up :x


Leo was right - love is the answer.

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