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Perceptions ARE nothingness. How can you know what somethingness is? How can you define what is and what isn't something? If I show you a big hairy dick, how do you know it's not nothing? How do you know it is something? Treat this question seriously. Stop taking somethingness for granted. It's not a given. You take for granted that you can accurately distinguish something from nothing, but this isn't true. This distinction you're making is not objective, it is arbitrary and biased.

You still don't get it. You don't have a reference point for what a "zero" or "empty" is. You are assuming these are objective things. They aren't. They are relative. ONENESS means you cannot have a reference point for anything, since all reference points are inside the ONENESS you're trying to define and therefore all definitions ultimately fail. There exists no objective definition for "something" nor "nothing". Therefore they literally collapse into an identity. Everything you think of as something, is simultaneously also nothing. Your mind is being too biased towards equating form with somethingness to realize this. What you're missing with this bias is that form IS nothing. You are stuck equating nothingness with formlessness, which is not the full picture. You have to realize that this is a bias which God does not share. This is a dumb human bias, so drop it.

Well, maybe, but who said logic is true? Just because you can't currently imagine nothingness, doesn't mean you won't ever be able to. How many things you could not imagine and then you came to experience? Plus, even if you can't ever imagine it at all, still doesn't mean something always existed. Consider that you didn't exist before your birth.

I don't know why. But I know that we can't know anything beyond perception. And perception is something, therefore it can't point to nothingness. The notion of "eternal universe" cannot be verified. And it could be the case that at some point in time, there was an actual nothing and then that void somehow/magically/IDK turned into something.

@mandyjw the god of nothingness ? It is zen primordial energy temple (dhyanalinga). I have a yantra and a picture to support and deepen my zen insight into the source of all things. It can be used to deepen ones meditation. I've even been in that temple so I have a strong etheric connection to it now. ? a video on dhyanalinga

Haha sorry ? I hope it really sinks in because it contradicts the fundamentals of what leo is teaching this is huge stuff im talking. Yes I agree to some extent. Nothingness and love are two sides of the same coin really. That's cool. ? I have a feeling a didn't comprehend fully the previous post of yours. Sometimes it takes a long time to sink in what you write for me ? ? P.S. just arrived my a course in miracles book. Lets see what Jesus have to say about it ?

Fundamental truth of who you are is nothing, not love. Nothingness is the source, love is the manifestaion. Both are you. But to say love is your absolute nature is not true. Nothingness is your absolute fundamental nature. Nothing beats nothingness. Yet all qualities like love and bliss and peace are one with nothingness. Nothingness is King. No logic can beat this. Mic drop. Michael jackson moon walking away...

If love arose / arises of nothing / nothingness, even that arising would be a property or quality of some sort attributed to nothing, and thus not truly nothing in an absolute unblemished untarnished sense. Another way to say that (property / quality) is condition. Even to taste itself, to think itself, to know itself, would be conditional.

What I wrote has value. It was not to debate people. People need to realize that love is not the source, nothingness is the source. Love comes out of nothingness and therefore are one. Everything is one. Nothing and love is one. But to say love is the source is a false teaching...

@Shin end of experience is not an experience. At least it is not a phenomenal experience. Maybe a non phenomenal experience that can't be put into words becouse it's beyond all words and all qualities. Nothingness is the best word for it. Yeah we may have some difference is what we mean by nirvana. Nirvana in my language means the end of phenomenal experience or cessation could be called

Well there's a thing called cessation or nirvana or nirvikalpa samadhi where all manifestaion and and love and bliss dissapears. What is left is only nothingness. So obviously love and manifestaion is secondary. And nothingness is the fundamental source of all creation. At least it makes sense to me.

Do you think? I would say that nothing has always been, there is no beginning in being. if it is always, it is loved always. If it has loved always, it has always manifested . nothingness, love and manifestation are right now, which is the only moment that exists. There is not like: nothing at the beginning, then love and then manifestation. everything is now, and now is always

Manifestaion is secondary. It cames and goes. Nothingness doesn't come and go. It's the fundamental nature of who you are. Love is a secondary nature of who you are. Love is your fragrance. Nothingness is your true self.

@BenG i see. Fair enough. if you're new to nonduality it may take some time to grasp this that all manifestaion comes from nothing. Manifestaion can cease to exist. When everything dissapears. That which is left is called Nothingness/absolute/Shiva is the Source of all things. If it's not sinking in at the moment it's okey. I don't know if I can say something to make it more clear.

That which has no quality of it's own is called Nothing. It's consciouness, pure awareness, Shiva. The creation that comes out of nothingness is Love/Shakti/Manifestaion Both are ultimately one. There's no duality. All creation is ultimately nothing because it comes out of nothing. But you can't call the source Love. The source is Nothing, the manifestaion is Love. That's why consciouness/nothingness is more fundamental than love. And consciouness is what you are, and consciouness has no quality. So... do you see what I'm pointing at? ? Nothingness and love is sort of the same. But if you want to be 100% logical than your fundamental nature is nothing. Your manifest nature is Love. Manifestaion is a secondary thing. Nothingness is absolute. In cessation love and creation dissapears. Obviously love is not the absolute thing then.

That's a normal procedure of things. Yes. Everything gets recontextualized to be love when your eyes become pure enough to see it. Ego is distorting reality. Undistorted reality is love. That's why they sey truth is love. In that sense yes. But your true nature is nothingness beyond any quality. And you're also love becouse it comes out of you. Lol but nothingness is more fundamental.

Yeah we can point to anything and say it is love. All creation is love. But you need to be in a higher state of consciouness to see that. Everything is love but misinterpreted to be something else because of ego and low conciousness. That's fine. Everything is love is a good teaching. But nirvana is beyond it. Creation is love. Source of creation is nothingness. ShivaShakti bro.

Nice try. But no. Nothingness is not love. And Im not talking about human emotions. You should make more effort to understand what Im saying before replaying.

@Shin no bro. Leave love alone. Love is a quality. Consciouness is without any quality. Consciouness is your fundamental nature. Yet you're love also because love came out of nothingness. So we sort of agree. But the ultimate is nothingness. Love is secondary. Love is a manifestaion, not the source of manifestaion.

@Raptorsin7 Exacly. Shakti means energy. The whole cosmos is one energy and that energy is love. All creation is love. But all creation comes from nothingness/shiva. So conciousness is more fundamental than love but they go together also.

Yeah you're nothing/consciousness, but this is exactly why you're infinite love too. You can't separate those things as one being higher than the rest unless you're unconscious to one of them (because it's all one thing). God consciousness can be considered the "highest", cause usually you realize nothingness before, and many teachers stops there. It's higher cause it embodies more realizations by realizing what love truly is, and by extension what God truly is. Maybe the Buddha and Sadhguru say what they say in order to not mislead you (cause God and love are such loaded words), or you're misunderstanding what they say, or maybe (crazy I know) they don't know what they're talking about. It's not because someone is popular that he necessarily knows what he's talking about, he may just be popular. If you need to take authority from someone very popular, why not taking Jesus ? He's the most popular guru you'll ever hear about, and he doesn't seem to agree lol

Appareatly not. That which is beyond all qualities can't be called love. The only appropriate name would be Nothing. And it's a higher truth then god consciouness. God love consciouness is a thing. But it's not the ultimate. At least that's what sadhguru and buddha says. Plus it makes total sense to me. Love is not consciouness, love is a manifestaion of consciouness. Consciouness has no qualities. It's Nothing. Your true nature is nothing at all. Love is Shakti, consciouness is Shiva. ShivaShakti. Creation is shakti, the source of creation is Shiva. Creation is love, the source of creation is nothingness.

But Truth and God is the same exact thing. Love is nothingness/consciousness.

I don't think you would use the word god in cessation. You would use nirvana or nothingness. There can't be anything that transcends nothingness. Love still has a quality. So it's not the highest. That which is beyond all qualities. Shiva is the highest. That makes sense to me at least at the logical level. When man pursues experience, he becomes the body. When he pursues knowledge, he becomes the mind. When he pursues God, he becomes the Heart. When he pursues Truth, he becomes Nothing. ~ Mooji

Hello all, I've been processing this realization for the past 3 days and it's been a hell of a ride. To start off 3 days ago: There was a depression in the body and much sadness, I was contemplating the nature of thought further and began to break ground when I noticed that thought goes in circles yet can never actually be in the circle it creates if that makes sense. Suddenly It was realized that thought is infinity and its a strange loop with no center. No joke, I was borderline manic for 2 hours. Directly realizing infinity (sober btw) was so shocking and empowering I was like "this changes everything!". Infinity is like an orb of nothingness that cannot be touched by the world yet the world is actually what creates the orb of nothingness therefore emptiness and fullness are the same, and there is no orb or world. Infinity is not a quantitative thing, it's just infinite and complete and empty. For the past three days I've just been melting into this infinity. I see the chaotic energy of life, traffic, anger, pain, love, awesomeness and it's all infinity. Also came to the realization completely that there really is no body. Before there was the misunderstanding that there is a static body moving in the world, now there is no body. It is clear that no one goes anywhere, and that movement is an appearance so it's almost like a side scrolling video game where the character stays in the center at all times and doesn't actually go anywhere. This will be difficult to point to but it's like the body is always being manifested of itself right now this precise second, so there is no body as in a static being, it is always being manifested. Hard to point to because saying it's always manifested now still implies time. The quote "Wherever you are, there you are." makes sense now. (Not even sure if that's a quote or if I made it up lol). Just wanted to share ?.