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Yeah you're nothing/consciousness, but this is exactly why you're infinite love too. You can't separate those things as one being higher than the rest unless you're unconscious to one of them (because it's all one thing). God consciousness can be considered the "highest", cause usually you realize nothingness before, and many teachers stops there. It's higher cause it embodies more realizations by realizing what love truly is, and by extension what God truly is. Maybe the Buddha and Sadhguru say what they say in order to not mislead you (cause God and love are such loaded words), or you're misunderstanding what they say, or maybe (crazy I know) they don't know what they're talking about. It's not because someone is popular that he necessarily knows what he's talking about, he may just be popular. If you need to take authority from someone very popular, why not taking Jesus ? He's the most popular guru you'll ever hear about, and he doesn't seem to agree lol

Appareatly not. That which is beyond all qualities can't be called love. The only appropriate name would be Nothing. And it's a higher truth then god consciouness. God love consciouness is a thing. But it's not the ultimate. At least that's what sadhguru and buddha says. Plus it makes total sense to me. Love is not consciouness, love is a manifestaion of consciouness. Consciouness has no qualities. It's Nothing. Your true nature is nothing at all. Love is Shakti, consciouness is Shiva. ShivaShakti. Creation is shakti, the source of creation is Shiva. Creation is love, the source of creation is nothingness.

But Truth and God is the same exact thing. Love is nothingness/consciousness.

I don't think you would use the word god in cessation. You would use nirvana or nothingness. There can't be anything that transcends nothingness. Love still has a quality. So it's not the highest. That which is beyond all qualities. Shiva is the highest. That makes sense to me at least at the logical level. When man pursues experience, he becomes the body. When he pursues knowledge, he becomes the mind. When he pursues God, he becomes the Heart. When he pursues Truth, he becomes Nothing. ~ Mooji

Hello all, I've been processing this realization for the past 3 days and it's been a hell of a ride. To start off 3 days ago: There was a depression in the body and much sadness, I was contemplating the nature of thought further and began to break ground when I noticed that thought goes in circles yet can never actually be in the circle it creates if that makes sense. Suddenly It was realized that thought is infinity and its a strange loop with no center. No joke, I was borderline manic for 2 hours. Directly realizing infinity (sober btw) was so shocking and empowering I was like "this changes everything!". Infinity is like an orb of nothingness that cannot be touched by the world yet the world is actually what creates the orb of nothingness therefore emptiness and fullness are the same, and there is no orb or world. Infinity is not a quantitative thing, it's just infinite and complete and empty. For the past three days I've just been melting into this infinity. I see the chaotic energy of life, traffic, anger, pain, love, awesomeness and it's all infinity. Also came to the realization completely that there really is no body. Before there was the misunderstanding that there is a static body moving in the world, now there is no body. It is clear that no one goes anywhere, and that movement is an appearance so it's almost like a side scrolling video game where the character stays in the center at all times and doesn't actually go anywhere. This will be difficult to point to but it's like the body is always being manifested of itself right now this precise second, so there is no body as in a static being, it is always being manifested. Hard to point to because saying it's always manifested now still implies time. The quote "Wherever you are, there you are." makes sense now. (Not even sure if that's a quote or if I made it up lol). Just wanted to share ?.

God is a very humanizing term. I don't think it should be used. It'd be like calling a rock God, what you say is God is just literally existence. If God as a deity existed, he would be part of existence and thus an element of that. How can existence be called God? And why should we even give words to negatives, like "infinite peace" is merely the total lack of anxiety. Peace is not an emotion at all. Humans always feel some level of anxiety, ALWAYS we have some desire to do something or other, and so the absence of anxiety is so crazy to us that we think it's an actual separate emotion. Infinite power is also just implied by infinity itself. Beauty is lack of rejection (I hate the way X or Y is). The word has awful personifying implications, heavy historical meaning, and is wholly unnecessary. It shouldn't be seen as a being at all, it is a being and intelligent and all knowing only via its appearances through which aspects of infinity is realized. It's not even an it. It's also not just nothingness because it's also somethingness. Now there's no word. Infinity works if you accept finitude as one with infinity, since infinity necessitates finitude on various grounds which are easily explained.

I read David Hawkins´ Power Vs. Force and marvelled at these paragraphs - enjoy! “There is only one absolute truth; all the rest are semi-facts spawned from the artifacts of limited perception and positionality. “To be or not to be” is not a choice; one may decide to be this or that, but to be is, simply, the only fact there is. All of the foregoing has been expressed at various times in man’s intellectual history by sages who have moved beyond duality in their awareness. But even then, to claim that the comprehension of the non-duality of existence is superior to its realization as dual is again to fall into another illusion. There is, ultimately, neither duality nor non-duality; there is only awareness. Only awareness itself can state that it is beyond all concepts such as “is” or “is not.” This must be so, because “is” can be conceived only by consciousness itself. Awareness itself is beyond even consciousness. Therefore, it may be said that the Absolute is unknowable exactly because it is beyond knowing, because it is beyond the reach of consciousness itself. Those who have attained such a state of awareness report that it cannot be described and can have no meaning for anyone without the experience of that context. Nonetheless, this is the true state of Reality, universally and eternally; we merely fail to recognize it. Such a recognition is the essence of enlightenment and the final resolution of the evolution of consciousness to the point of self-transcendence...When vacillation between heaven and hell becomes unendurable, the desire for existence itself has to be surrendered. Only once this is done may one finally move beyond the duality of Allness versus nothingness, beyond existence versus nonexistence. This culmination of the inner work is the most difficult phase, the ultimate watershed, where one is starkly aware that the illusion of existence one transcends is irrevocable. There is no returning from this step, and this specter of irreversibility makes this last barrier appear to be the most formidable choice of all. But, in fact, in this final apocalypse of the self, the dissolution of the sole remaining duality of existence versus nonexistence—identity itself—dissolves in Universal Divinity, and no individual consciousness is left to choose. The last step, then, is taken by God.”

In my experience I didn't interpret any self to be able to think it is not real. I know that all aspects of the self including the word "I" seemed to be very distant from where I then was, and what I was, was at that time made of nothingness. The I thought and self and all things seemed very distant. What to make of that? Is the nothingness still referred to as the self? I'm not sure because I don't like terms like "you're imagining the laws of physics". It seems whatever is responsible for that contains no element of me AT ALL, but vice versa what that is contains me... I didn't feel the nothingness I became had any control, or at least as nothingness I could not will a million bucks into my lap etc. I didn't suddenly know everything. I am nothingness right now. And maybe the nothingness is omniscient (it must be), yet I am not even though I am it. That's strange.

Ever noticed how a perception or thought comes out of nothing, and back into nothing? Past memories you have, the moment itself when it happened arose and fell, from nothing back into nothing. A single moment. The sense that there was even any continuity IN that experience while it was being had, is a product of the mind and the consistency of the external world. See by the end of the time you were having your happy memory, say 10 minutes into it, the first 5 minutes of that time had vanished. A happy day was even when experienced made od billions of moments which came into being from nothing - then back into nothing. There's only this right now. There's only this exact moment... If you're KO'd, you wake and experience, ultimately, no gap in experience at all. I.e., neither I who stay conscious, nor you who is out cold, ultimately ever cease to experience. To me it seems you do, because I can describe moments you cannot. But ultimately for both of us experience is, firsthand, continuous with zero interruption... A happy memory you have, where is that moment? It is back in the same exact nothingness as the thought you had 5 minutes earlier is now. There's only this precise moment. Events (really just morphing objects, we are one of these) move through awareness AKA nothingness. Really they don't move anywhere but rather transform constantly. After transforming, the prior condition of the object is in nothingness. It isn't THERE in a place called the past. It's nowhere. At least it seems that way, as I was told earlier that block time is disproven. Which is helpful for an easier understanding... Block time would be fine but would then require belief in more that is not able to be directly experienced than just multiple finite perspectives as other humans (merely objects in and of nothingness) may report.

What I mean is, no matter what you identify as, the feeling "I am sad" and the associated unpleasantness, which is a feature of this infinity, is what it actually is. By identifying with the sheer nothingness, the feeling "sad" does not change. Interpretation of it changes. But if sadness stopped being sad, it's not sadness anymore. Sadness IS the whole package deal. The feeling of "I am sad" is the entire unit, which appears in consciousness. Same with pain. Interpretation of it can alted but the sensation itself and associated unpleasantness is a package deal. That IS what the experience is. All of these things are objects like literally ANY other. The application of a label to what the thing is, does not stop it from merely being thing... E.g. red is a thing, the sound of a piano is a thing. Labelling red as color and piano as sound is categorizing reality. Both are just "experience" or "appearance". Pain, suffering, anxiety, sadness, as such are just more objects like that... Just as you can't take the redness away from red, you can't take sadness away from sad. Because it is literally exactly what they are. You can only stop adding interpretation and egoic type resistance. But the thing itself could not alter without the form ceasing to be what it is...

Hello beautiful beings. Firstly, love you all very much. <3 The form here this morning sits in utter peace. Last night through a series of intuitive meditations, a pointer arrived. As it was poured out of the nothingness into the space, the head disappeared...then the body went as a whole. An explanation to the path followed is below: -Enjoyed a beautiful bowl of Gorilla Glue #4 cannabis. -Do nothing meditation to still the body -Used Alice Phoebe Lou’s album Glow (favorite female vocalist) as meditation object. This was the first time I’ve used music as the object of meditation. A few eargasms occured but mostly just deep presence with the sound, not quite merged but close. -Vipassana body scan and build a 3D light body in the emptiness behind the eyes. -Now the void had dimension to it, the light body seemed to collapse into that infinite space, and when I opened the eyes, the following pointer was spoken: -“Try to describe reality to myself using words BUT position a higher willpower on only speaking Truth” -the brain knows without doubt that no Truth can be spoken, but the feeling of trying really hard to do this was maintained. The brain stumbled over everything in the visual field, eventually looking at the hands and laughing hysterically about the fact that I’ve literally no clue wtf this is. -Then the pointer occured: “watch reality describe itself” and the moment this was spoken the head vanished. Suddenly there was the recognition that I’ve never directly experienced the head or face, I’d naturally have no clue there was even a brain. The actual direct experience or the head, face, mouth, breath, and body were seen to be a completely arbitrary set of sensations that absolutely don’t add up to what I believe I look like. Looked in the mirror and saw that what was seen in the reflection is 0% of what is directly felt in the body. -Ate food, “flavor” just appears out of emptiness. -Noted: “How could I possibly do this with my hands? *wiggles fingers* I only experience the doings, I only know knowledge by concepts. The body is fully automatic and i have no direct experience of a face or head” — Upon waking this morning and still to this moment, there’s no direct experience of a head. The visual field is fully seen without a seer. Time ceases to exist immediately unless speaking or typing. 100% of the information about what is seen is available just on the surface of the appearance The headlessness has happened once before, but it lasted only a couple minutes. This seems very stable and I’ll be repeating the same meditation path later today. Currently just melting into the field as the field. If this helps anyone, awesome. Curious to those who have gotten to this point if there’s any pointers you can share that may help stabilize the realization. -Love

Congrats! Whatever it was, it sounds quite significant to your path. You wouldn’t equate it to these attainments/rarefied states if it wasn’t a big moment. Did you “experience” cessation/Fruition? This comes about half a second or so after change in lineage when you first attain stream entry. Examining if there was cessation is the most phenomenologically-sound way to know if change of lineage or stream entry occurred. This is the best possibility out of all the things you suspect happened. It’s okay to feel good about yourself with such a thing. I can almost guarantee you that anyone who got there and realized what happened felt that to some degree no matter how anti-celebratory their tradition might be of attainments. From Mastering the Core Teaching of the Buddha 2nd Edition/Version: “Fruition (phala in Pali) is the fruit of all the meditator’s hard work, the first attainment of ultimate reality, emptiness, nirvana, nibbana, ultimate potential, or whatever extrapolative and relatively inaccurate name you wish to call something utterly non-sensate. In this non-state, there is absolutely no time, no space, no reference point, no experience, no mind, no consciousness, no awareness, no background, no foreground, no nothingness, no somethingness, no body, no this, no that, no unity, no duality, and no anything else. “Reality” stops cold and then reappears.“ The advice depends quite a bit on what you actually got to. These terms mean many different things: “boundless consciousness, "true self", nothingness, void, radiant unity, one-ness, the Buddha smile, and "Change of Lineage".” Samadhi is another different thing. Stream entry is another different thing. My best recommendation is to continue spiritual practice as you normally do but also read into the phenomenology of these different things so you can know more definitely where you’re at. Being clear where you are at can really impact growth in profound ways. It also has an amazing ego-burning rubber band effect as you find out how great of progress you actually made vs. examining yourself honestly to see how hard you *potentially* overestimated things. Either way, good understanding of the specifics of all of these states/attainments will help you a lot as you move forward. I’d be happy to discuss this stuff with you in detail if you wish. My first cessations occurred on 5-28-2021, and I have spent a lot of time developing an increasingly deep understanding and visceral experience of most of the terms you are thinking might have been “it.” Just send me a PM if interested. I can give much more specific instructions if we nail down exactly what happened.

Hey all, As the title says, I recently had a samadhi-esque experience while on an Ayahuasca ceremony. I've looked through models of consciousness during meditation and on psychedelics and have found several names for what I experienced including: boundless consciousness, "true self", nothingness, void, radiant unity, one-ness, the Buddha smile, and "Change of Lineage". I know I'm not enlightened, because I feel a major welling of pride for having reached this milestone in my spiritual development. I definitely still have desires. However, the way I look at reality has fundamentally changed. I now know where I came from, the nature of god (intuitively on a somewhat shallow level), and see the people around me as brothers and sisters of god. I feel like I've found true religion at this point, and want to take advantage of this new paradigm. For those who have been, what are your experiences and what advice would you have for someone who has reached stream-entry-or-close. Major love and respect to you all.

@Nos7algiK Nothing CAN'T be deceiving you though? I mean if you find nothingness, there's no illusion there, because an illusion is something. So you find that and it's the end, I would think.

What no-self is observed by is what you are. It's just that that is nothingness. Any element of the self, be it a thought, or emotion, your name, sound, sight, memory, is going to observed by the nothingness... So everything you would consider the self is an appearance to the sheer consciousness which is nothingness and what you are. The sum total of everything, meaning nothing and all objects appearing to it (all period, so not just mine or yours but all existent objects) is just total infinity. It's not a God, not any thing, not nothing. It's infinity which encompasses BOTH nothing and something.

So this whole idea of letting it go seems like an illusion. You can only let go of what is already gone , so in a sense there is nothing to let go of . So it's more of acceptance. Accepting that you have no control and cannot hold on or let go . They seem like opposites of the same pole. Even acceptance looks illusory because there is nothing to accept there is just Truth. You cannot add or subtract from truth ,TRUTH IS before we spin any stories about it . It's like Desire. Fulfilling desires always takes place in the future so it does not allow you to be (happy) now. So if you want to be happy , you are unable to be happy because happiness must come later , in the future after you get or accomplish what you want. And if you are unhappy you desire to stop this unhappiness . Desire is pretty much wanting and as always our wants are not here now so we are suffering until we get our wants/desires. Wanting and not wanting are really two sides of the same coin . So you could want someone in your life and you can also want to NOT want a person in your life. The key to this is not to desire. But then immediately you will see that you desire not to desire lollers! think I now understand the importance of knowing why we the egoes "must" be destroyed.... The buddha keeps calling us a fool. Now I understand why we are fools. We believe suffering will never come to us. So we cling to our objects thinking it will give us pleasure long. It does.... We feel pleasure.... Just like kids playing with our toys.... It's very pleasurable....... No hardship.... Until we go to school.... We begin to have problems. But pleasure never lasts, it never does. It Will never ever last long. Even the earth and the universe. but to cling to our bodies.... Is surely foolish. That's why the Buddha emphasizes the importance of losing our body, the world. It is we that cling to the world and the body. It is us, it is not the problem of the universe. We keep blaming the universe, body, our lack of money.... Etc.... But yet we never look at our selves to see that it is use that clings to these things. We are clinging to them... And that we are blaming that which is lost. We intuitively know everything will be lost.... But we still cling to them. Good example.... A disciplined person. Eating healthy, good to people. Loving, work hard, great relationships, great heart, ... He goes to the doctor because of a sore stomach. The doctor says he has cancer. He says "me? Why me? I work hard, I'm kind, good to people, I have a great heart, I excercise and eat healthy. Why me?" That person is still foolish. It clearly shows that he always believed that his body will never break down if he eats healthy... When actually the it is a natural process of the law of the universe to things to be born and die. So even though he had done healthy things.... And was "kind" to people. He is still foolish to have believed that even his cared body will now betray his belief. But I'm not criticizing his care for health.... But all I'm criticizing is his belief that he will never suffer for clinging to the body. whats wrong with clinging to the earth? Well even the earth will be destroyed. Even the whole galaxy.... And nothing will be left. Which is nothingness we are going for.

Because the removal of somethingness causes the exact conditions that make its own existence necessary and impossible to avoid. God doesn't exist, it's just literally infinity. It is sentient only because it contains sentience, it chooses only because it contains choice. The totality as a whole has no choice, there's no chooser to make any choice. Infinity simply cannot help but be infinite. When people say infinite love that is because they are identifying the nothingness as God, and not the somethingness in which hatred (rejection of X or Y) exists. It is really both though. Infinite love as well as infinite rejection. Because it's both nothingness and all somethingness. Including someone's hatred of cancer and pain and suffering. It contains selfishness along with the nothingness that is totally selfless... Selflessness, acceptance, and peace being DEFAULT AKA the lack of attribute. Peace is merely a lack of anxiety, acceptance a lack of rejection. Etc.

Well I don't believe anything would be changed point blank because I don't believe things are the way they are due to selflessness. I think it's the actual necessity of an infinity. It can't help but be infinite. So infinite in fact that it can't ever comprehend itself in totality because there is simply no end in any direction. And it's not even a sentient thing, it contains sentience, so the wording I just used is a bit humanizing. I imagine it's like trying to comprehend what "infinite clear" would LOOK like. We can't comprehend it without adding an artificial backdrop like black or white. Infinity can't ever be comprehended fully in its totality, for that exact same reason. It becomes nothingness and non-experience as in cessation. No God has ever woken from this dream. None ever will. What is happening is from a relative stance, a person realizes God (AKA nothingness AKA infinity AKA not a deity or person despite containing sentience in it). It's a relative experience still... When you are dead you are fully enlightened to total infinity, and yet there you are mourning at your own funeral. The illusion continues. Forever. God waking up to itself as a totality is not possible, because it would collapse all something to nothing, and removal of something means removal of any limit which means nothingness is infinite (nothing exists to limit it) and there is infinite somethingness still as a result. You can't split the two. You can't end the illusion because removing something causes the EXACT parameters that necessitate its very own existence!

Do you see that it doesn't actually achieve anything at all on a cosmic scale? Did I experience nothingness? I knew nothingness for sure. I knew myself to be nothingness through an experience I was having. I could not know myself to be nothingness if I was under general anaesthesia. Maybe I would somewhere else in the world simultaneously but you know what I mean. I am still right now on death row and doing all sorts of evil shit, I'm still Sam Harris arguing for materialism etc. So whatever viewpoint was gained or state of consciousness tapped into, it is STILL a relative one. Entering the state of consciousness which is literally nondual, meaning nothing even APPEARS to take form at all, causes cessation, and thus can't be experienced. Any sort of awakening directly impacts your relative life only. As long as experience is happening, and it eternally is and will, you are experiencing relativity in some way.

Both nothingness and somethingness are what you are, literally speaking. And the totality is IMO not you. All elements of you are reducible to the singularity. But the singularity is, vice versa, not reducible to any sort of you. You aren't imagining the world or laws of physics etc. These are things beyond any "you", they're not something you're controlling or willing into being. The totality can't be called you I don't think, for these types of reasons. Consciousness = nothingness. Literally. It's literally nothingness in substance. It's a silly word really, because no normal person will see "consciousness" and think it's anything but something...

I very much prefer interpretations which acknowledge the separation as much as the oneness. For me appearing to appear = appearing. An illusion = a real illusion. My most prominent understanding, I felt, came from the split instead of becoming the visuals etc. A little clown man in my mind pointed at me in the foreground, and that did it... The "don't look at me here, look at you back there", then I found I was literal complete nothingness.

I don't understand this interpretation. There is nothing, the subject, and nothing-appearing-to-be-NOT-nothing, the object. If nothingness never appeared to be not-nothing (objects) there'd not be any experience at all full stop. If there was only appearing somethings and NOT sheer nothing coinciding with it, there'd be no experience at all. Because objects never know objects. The subject exists and it is pure nothingness. Objects exist and their actual "substance" is pure nothingness but an object itself is not pure nothingness because it's pretending to be not-nothing. Reality is only actual due to subject and object divide, and nobody has ever experienced the literal singularity where things stop appearing as things and everything is literally nothing with no facades period. Seeing things as nothingness is just a reinterpretation of the actuality of the appearance of duality which is still right there irrespective of interpretation.

Past/future are just concepts you are creating. It is all happening "now". This "now" is infinite and can manifest itself as whatever it wishes. It it taking parts of itself, variables of infinity, which is this moment. It can take anything it whishes, whenever it whishes and that whenever is "now". It is like if you took every single concept ever possible an put it all on top if each other and merged it all into one. Your perception is the lens that focuses these concepts into your awareness. They are always there ready to be available. It just depends what you wish to focus on now. Just like your own imagination you can imagine whatever or whoever you wish. You imagination has no concept of time. There is no one to perceive the experiences of our imagination if you imagined a person. They do not have a POV, there is only the perception that you are imagining a person. Sure, you could imagine you are seeing through their eyes, but then its actually just your eyes lol. You adamantly reject what I say and call it a belief while telling me a belief you hold lol. The experience is the whole. "IS" is the keyword here. Everything "is" there is nothing you can point to that isn't this "is'ness", because it's You. It is the same substance which is manifesting your perception. If it's all consciousness, and dare I say there really is no word for it but it all is the same substance, then seeing, thinking, believing, perceiving, being, touching, feeling, tasting, outside, inside, giving, receiving, and I could list anything here is all the same substance. Infinite/Nothingness. If you are existing then it is existing, for it is You. Just because it doesn't seem like it can think/feel and all of that jazz does not mean the substance it's made of isn't self aware. If it wasn't self aware, you wouldn't be able to perceive it yourself. Hence self-aware. Yes, pretty much. The emptiness of a cup very much exists and it is the foundation that is needed in order to fill the cup up with somethingness.

I am yourself, now. Not future, not past. In your dreams you have at night do you experience the same dream but from another POV different times you fall asleep? The "now" is One instance and this instance is eternal. I am not a you for you to experience. But, the you now is under the illusion it's talking to me, but what's really happening is you are under the deception that this manifestation around you has another to be experienced at some point. This IS the point, there is no other point. A computer is experiencing for if you perceive it then it is You, it is One. There is no separation between you and it. So to say it's not experiencing is to create two. It is not "outside" of you to have it's own perceptive bubble, rather your perceptive bubble is the experience of it in total. You denying this, is also the experience. It is not right, nor is it wrong. There isn't even a you really, but I find that whole "there is no you" jargon to be tiring and silly to repeat as an answer for all things. The absence of an experience is an experience. It is the absence of experience, experience lol. The substance of all experience is the same. It is the essence of Nothingness brought into being by it's own Infiniteness. It can be anything it wishes, it is not even an "it" to be it. It just "is" or should I just say .... "is'ness is". How are the characters in your dream interacting if they are all just a product of your imagination? The same applies for reality.

It should in totality just be called infinity I think. And the building blocks called literal nothingness. Both subject and object are made of nothing. And both together is just actual complete infinity. The term God is very humanizing.