Search the Community

Nonduality teachings are very valuable in terms of transpersonal development. The idea that the ego is a separate entity is what needs to be transcended. Nonduality teacher Paul Hedderman learned the phrase "You can't use the Buddha to seek the Buddha". That's a pretty clever pointer because if we are the Buddha in our nondual nature and at the same time are spiritual seekers seeking Buddhahood, that's a contradiction. Here is Paul's most recent video:

Is akasha the same as consciousness? No, akasha is the content in consciousness. But isn't that duality? My idea is that it's a trinity with 1) the unmanifested, 2) consciousness and 3) the manifested. Almost like the Holy Trinity in Christianity. And in Christianity the Holy Trinity is one unit, nonduality! When the trinity comes together it produces time. And the "when" is now, there is only now. Is akasha space? Yes! And space is not empty but is made of vacuum energy which in turn is the substance of all material things.

This thread is a careful dance between solipsism, madness and non-duality. Here god argues with it's different parts over whether anything exists and what we should do about it. Do you really think universal consciousness is limited to one being? Oh what a waste of potential. And to the thread author, everything exists as experience and experiencer(duality of imagination) Collapse the whole thing and you get consciousness, self aware and alone. But it's behind all appearances,form and time. We are all literally one mind, each of it's parts separated by thought and imagination alone. The complicated nature of this can lead to explanations such as reality is magic etc. Well yes it is, how come imagination feels so real. Anyway the point of nonduality is to spread love and kindness, here using the cerebral drives people to madness, ideas like solipsism etc. I say it once i say it again if this was the truth, why would spirituality be so wide spread? Spiritual teachers like Leo, should be warning people against it. Oooh be careful don't want solipsim to bite your ass! Its silly really, this is what happens when you try to imagine your ego is god. We all exist as thoughts within god's mind. How is that for a twist? Or multiple personalities of it, or masks, but everyone is made from the same stuff consciousness. So fundamentally you are all life. This should be good news, celebrated, not this madness.

Because Truth is EVERYTHING, including non-abidance and disunity. Sure, but I'm not hung up on it like some folks are. I don't discount nonduality just because it lasts 5 minutes. 5 minutes of nonduality is just as true and valid as 50 years of it. Because actually it's Eternal.

This topic is mainly for people who already became enlightened or had at least advanced awakenings. I will try to describe what I feel. I made a trip 2 weeks ago where I lived a brief enlightenment experience. In this trip I discovered amongst other things that I can become enlightened even right now, if I want it. I set the intention that I want to get enlightened, because this would help me both in generating a much more meaningful vision/lp (service to others) and both living without pain, self-deceptions, limiting believes, needyness and such. I want to feel myself complete and do a completely new fresh start. Three-four days ago I started then feeling myself almost totally despersonalized. I don't recognize my hands and my body anymore and I have a high state of presence and almost 0 monkey mind. I don't feel love, compassion and such, just blank "apathy", calmness, placidity, neutrality. Everything that's not staring the void/doing nothing/being present is felt to me as a distraction. I have to force myself to eat, work and to do the rest of stuff that's necessary. The apathy and the loss of motivation is not due to depression or such. I don't feel myself depressed at all, but super present, mindless and tranquil. I am doing hours and hours of meditation and self inquiry each day just like that. I am having lucid dreams (both while awake and asleep) and I am living giant enlightenment/nonduality related synchronicites with my best friend (who is also in this forum). I had the last lucid dream this night, where I was totally aware that was a lucid dream. I had all the feelings I have in this world (uditory, tactile etc.). I even pinched my arm in the dream to prove it and said that I would tell my best friend about that dream, as soon as I woked up. I am catching glimpses here and there of nonduality (e. g. everything is in 2d, the perceptor is "glued in" to reality, there are no internal or external worlds, there is only a sense of self made out by a mental construct which encompasses all memories, information, perceptions etc., infinity, what I am and so on). I myself am generating profound nonduality insights about the nature of reality, energy, ego mind and such. I can reach super crazy deep states of relaxation in few minutes, where I almost don't need to breath. I can stop monkey mind in few seconds just by staring at it. Still, I cannot break through and I don't know what's happening. Even if I understood conceptually through sheer direct experience what I am and what it's all about, there is no shift happening. I am feeling myself a bit frustrated. I don't know how to move forward. I am feeling myself a bit demotivated, but I am still persisting. Still, I feel I am near a major breakthrough and I feel I already have the key in my hands, but I cannot insert it in the lock and open the door. Here are my questions: Maybe I don't really want enlightenment and this is all mind trickery or such? What's happening to me and why? Why am I so depersonalized and I cannot move forward? What should I do? Thank you in advance!

I don’t think there is really such a thing as a Mormon nondualist. By identifying with a certain belief system and religion already embodies duality. Nonduality is about transcending religion to see it as parts of a whole. This is one of the problems with Hindus and Buddhists that I see. A true Buddhist does not identify as a Buddhist because any attachment leads to suffering. All identities, beliefs, ideologies, politics, and religion are imagination inside the Dream of Life. Any worldview is duality. Notice this.

@Nahm if we’re throwing psychedelics out of the equation (which I don’t think we should), the fastest way would be meditation for most people although it was a manic episode from my bipolar disorder paired with psychedelics, intense spiritual study, meditation, associating with spiritual people, etc. for me. Every discipline followed to its end ends in nondualism, but ultimately nondualism is far too simplistic of a concept. There are dualities, but at the same time nonduality is true.

@BipolarGrowth how do you get on with other Mormons when you talk to them about nonduality? If you do mention it that is, or do you keep it secret? (The secret at the source of all religion!)

This is a theory until you experience it for yourself. But my current level of understanding is: No 'body and mind' as separate things. There is body-mind as a single thing, but appear as two when we're in a dualistic state. Therefore, when I glimpse nonduality, the awareness and contents (thoughts, feelings, sense perceptions etc) are one with the awareness. That is, reality is self-aware, panpsychism if you like. "can i notice awareness ?" Try. Can you create a layer of awareness, above awareness, looking at it as an object? If that's what you mean. The ego thinks it is separate and capable of this, but I've never managed it. I end up like a dog chasing its own tail

yup, Quran do it too perfectly, it is impossible that muhammad wrote it himself. It succeeded very well into introducing religion into stage purple/red tribes. It had the vision of creating a religious movement and creating a religious country and it succeeded in doing that. But still, don't expect it to explain higher stages. Nonduality is non existent in Quran. Quran doesn't teach free thinking and open-mindedness, it is basically an indoctrination, which is consistent with stage blue values. Was Muhammad enlightened? I don't know honestly. Yet still you can take some scriptures from Quran and explain them in a nondual manner.

@Marinador No actually, not at all. ? Nonduality means not two, as in the subject & objects, or possessor and possession. Existence = awareness. That’s all that is. No one has it. Some claim they do, apparently.

Continuous experience. When you’re saying happiest and most fulfilled, you are referring to feeling. Feeling has never, and will never ‘be’ anywhere. Feeling is not a separate object, an ‘it’, that a you, could ‘get’. In your direct experience, feeling = now, always. Feeling has never been in a past or future. You are looking for what yo in fact can never actually be without. There is absolutely nothing you can do about how you feel. It doesn’t matter what perspectives you choose or what happens in life, it doesn’t matter if you have a life purpose, or pursue or become, enlightened. There is literally nothing you can do about how you feel. If you want to, you can make a dreamboard, discover synchronicity, and nonduality, and also create what you want to experience. But it really doesn’t matter if you do or not.

Ajata Project Nothingness: "Underneath the condition when you are awake and aware, and beneath the condition when you are in bed at night and dreaming, there is the deep-sleep condition. Here, there are no thoughts, there is no “you”, no mind, no relationships, no other, nor world, or universe. There is merely a condition of empty presence, no-thing-ness. Everything, every form, event, etc., is superimposed on this empty presence, by the mind in the waking or dreaming state. But the organism, the body, continues to exist despite these daily reoccurrence of emptiness. This condition in which there is no mind, no thoughts, no forms, and no you, is the “ground” state, your natural state. This empty presence is the condition of the organism before its birth (and its conditioning and the arising of the I-thought), and will be its condition once again upon the death of the form of “your life”. In other words, an organism appears to arise within empty presence, matures, and recedes again into empty presence (similar to the way an electron arises and recedes in the quantum field). The organism knew nothing of existence or nonexistence before birth, and will know nothing after death: “You” will not know that you— or anything else— ever had “existed”. Recognizing the fleeting temporality of “existence” – and that existence will be completely non-existent, in due course— it becomes clear that not anything that you do, think, feel or say has any lasting significance or meaning. (This is the message of the Bhagavad Gita.) All that appears, to the organism, to be done is merely a momentary expression of the field of ever-present beingness—utterly lacking in lasting reality. This is why it is said, in the nondual writings, that “nothing really matters”. It is also why it is said that (as a book about Papaji is titled) “nothing ever happened.” All that we learn in advaita is intending to point our attention to nothingness. (And not its “existence” or “nonexistence”, since where there is nothing, neither of these are applicable.) In other words, the intention of advaita, or nonduality, is to direct us to ajata. And, I would say, a thorough understanding of the former is necessary in order to comprehend the latter. When we come to recognize that, in truth, there is nothing from the start, we understand what is meant when it is said that all that we perceive is simply a dream, an illusion— seemingly superimposed on ever-lasting empty presence. Now, is this information simply an interesting “analysis”, or does this have practical value? Someone recently sent me a book by the Dalai Lama, and I’ll extract a few quotes. All phenomena are empty. Emptiness pervades not only your individual ego or sense of self, but the whole of reality…That emptiness of mind is its ultimate nature, or mode of being. To realize that, is to pierce and see through the deception of ignorance…freedom from ignorance (is called) nirvana… Realizing emptiness is directly related to our quest to purify our mind of afflictive emotions like hatred, anger, and desire…We project onto things a state of “existence”, and a mode of being which is simply not there…. This understanding of emptiness..is one of the principal factors of the true path….For such an insight cuts right through the illusion created by the mis- apprehension of grasping things and events as existing… We realize the emptiness of all phenomena, not just the mind and body of the individual. In my favorite story about Ramana Maharshi, a man came into the room where Ramana held satsang, said he’d written a biography of Ramana and asked permission to read it. Ramana smile and nodded, and the man read his manuscript. It was full of inaccuracies and error: he said that Ramana was married and had children, that he’d been a Socialist before his enlightenment, and on and on. When he finished reading, Ramana smiled and nodded, and the man picked up his manuscript and left. One of Ramana’s disciples cried out, “Master, did you hear what he read? Is any of that real?!” Ramana waved his hand as if taking in the universe, and asked: “Is any of this real?” -- Ajata Project Robert Wolfe

@Someone here what exists "outside" of your consciousness is you, not the human ego. So of course you are a conscious being since everything is consciousness, you're just interacting with different aspects of yourself (similar to when you're dreaming about interacting with other people). But there's no "you" and "others", or "you" and "reality" such as two layers of reality. It's a singular mind split into infinite thought forms, so your existence is stretching to infinity (yes, you this finite questioning mind) to explore the manifested Self. Thinking that you're limited by something external (such as "me" and "other people") limits your absolute perspective. The inside/outside is one field of consciousness, not two layers, basically what nonduality is trying to teach.

Now I have another proposal for modifying the hardcore nonduality teachings who say that things are only apparently happening. The true perspective in my opinion is to say that things have apparently happened in the past. But what is happening now IS happening, not apparently happening. How do I know that I'm not deluding myself? What if there is an actual past separate from the now? My answer to that is that my model is consistent with my actual direct experience. The mainstream view of a past separate from the now is not.

Another simple spiritual teaching is the extreme form of nonduality that people like Tony Parsons and Jim Newman talk about. They even say that nothing is happening. Maybe they mean that no-thing is happening which I would agree with, but it's unclear what they mean. And instead of saying that something is happening they say that something apparently is happening. In my opinion that ironically makes their teaching more complicated than it needs to be. It's more direct to say that no-thing is happening. So there is something happening! It's just that this something is not a thing like some material stuff. The word 'apparently' then becomes redundant.

“Bud” ? There really are no individuals my man. It’s actual. There is no ‘he’ which has a clearer understanding than ‘you’, and ‘you’ are not the individual ‘knower’ of who among ‘other individuals’ has a clearer understanding. There is likewise, not actually an individual, which believes itself to be a reliable source. You - are saying that, and that you are, and that there isn’t that ‘you’, is totally between you and your source, so to speak. Nor is there anyone else’s beliefs at play here - literally just your own. That is textbook projection - telling someone else what they believe. lol. Come on man. This is fundamental deconstruction. The agreeing & being a moderator verbiage only reveals your own perspectives about that subject - you are saying that. There is no & no one understanding nonduality my man, it means not-two (as you know, just a point of relevance to what you said - about ‘me’). “You are not a reliable course in these areas whether you believe you are or not” - again, come on dude. You can’t see that’s all what you are saying? All projection? There isn’t actually an individual ‘here’ ‘stuck in a belief system’, that is the whole ‘thing’ you’re missing! Nonduality! ? ”It takes someone to be completely selfless...” that there is not a ‘separate self’ ‘in the body’ is actual. This nonduality ‘stuff’ is actual! “Someone that is not awake should not be attempting to guide individuals on this section of the forum period” I mean, really?! You might be having an ‘off day’ or something, but come on. Are you even reading what you’re writing? I wish you only the best. If we were sitting together, I’d be the first to open a beer for ya and tell you I love ya, and appreciate all you do. You also can feel free to make whatever accusations about me you desire to, and I hope it is some form of relief.

Every finite symbolic dualistic system will necessarily have self-reference problems that cause contradiction. Because reality is infinite and one, not two. Nonduality forces every dualistic system into contradiction because twoness cannot grasp oneness. See my video about The Metaphysical Implications of Godel's Incompleteness Thereom. All logic and science will forever be incomplete. This has been formally proven by Godel and Tarski.

My life has no known meaning and I am passionless. I have spent the last year or so of my life doing the best I can do to transform myself for the best. Specifically I have worked more on "practical aspects"(emotional intelligence, meditating and being more proactive) of self improvement than "existential aspects"(like understanding nonduality or metaphysics) and i have reaped enormous benefits. My life has had huge changes obvious to myself and others. I was lazy and eating disgusting unhealthy food all day and acting out angrily to my children, wife, coworkers etc. I now eat healthier than anyone I personally know, workout at least 4 times a week and have better control over my emotions than MOST people I know. But when it comes time to get out of bed it has to be FORCED and not because im tired but because i cant think of a reason to get up. Chasing physical health is becoming my crutch to feel like i have a purpose or goal but I don't. Not even a little bit. At this point of my life, even after all of this improvement, I am just living to die. I just dont know what i want to do. I cant think of a life purpose that would excite me. I have no passion. Seriously ive put considerable thought into this and I'm lost. At this point i wonder if everyone will have a personal purpose. This IS discouraging as much as I wish it wasnt. What now? Just keep swimming?

btw I am in no way claiming that there is nothing to discover or to drop this, I am all for it and I am on this journey. I am playing angel's advocate here and saying something extreme. That The IS US, the GOD you've known as allness, allthatisness, beingness, Everythingness is still not Absolute. Absolute is BEYOND That. The GOD beyond the God. The GOD which can never be KNOWN, even by the God of Awareness. By all means this journey is absolutely fantastic. But lets remove the arrogance from this. The God of unknowing will always remain hidden, even to itself. Absolute is more absolute than the absolute. I cannot know this, but I somehow know this. Might sound jibberish and coming from ignorance, but I have touched something, I have touched the Heart and it says : HUMBLE BOYYY HUMBLE! DONT SAY YOU KNOW. That's a great attitude to have. What if the GOD experienced is just as ignorant as the ignorant person, just on a whole nother level. We are talking locationless and timeless here. There is enough space in the Absolute for a deluded Everything, deluded GOD. No one knows what is meant when we point to this word. lets enjoy this, in both knowing and not knowing. Both duality and nonduality.

Sounds like you may be having similar hookups to Someonehere, so I thought I'd share with you what I shared with him. "Ok to clarify again what I'm saying since you seem to boil down what I'm saying to the field of thought/perception/human consciousness, and as such those capacities are an inherently limiting and couldn't possibly see beyond into what possibly may be? Is this kinda your contention? Because ya, its sometimes good to have healthy skepticism and know your limitations and place so to say. However, in relation to that train of thought, what I'm saying is the fact that thought/perception/human consciousness or just the acknowledgement that comprehension is going on this moment "exist or is taking place" is proof in of itself that "something" is going on no matter what its cosmology or ontology, what ever this mystery is, IS or IS taking place, and its taking place before you even write it down or put it into words, and its obvious because this interaction is going on now (although I am now since we are talking). Its so simple its almost stupid, forget what nonduality, god, consciousness means, thats not what I'm talking about. Im basically saying, I don't know what anything is, but "something" is going on and what ever it is, is going on, like duh. Then if you get the stupid simplicity of that, and are not longer trying to figure out what exactly that may be, simply ask and maybe recognize, could what ever the mystery of whats going on, not be going during the inquiry of doing so, and if no, then whats going on now..... the mystery of what is? Pretty stupidly simple and may seem unimportant, almost like saying salty tastes salty right,...... right.....AMAZING.

Ok to clarify again what I'm saying since you seem to boil down what I'm saying to the field of thought/perception/human consciousness, and as such those capacities are an inherently limiting and couldn't possibly see beyond into what possibly may be? Is this kinda your contention? Because ya, its sometimes good to have healthy skepticism and know your limitations and place so to say. However, in relation to that train of thought, what I'm saying is the fact that thought/perception/human consciousness "exist or are taking place" is proof in of itself that "something" is going on no matter what its cosmology or ontology, what ever this mystery is, IS or IS taking place, and its taking place before you even write it down or put it into words, and its obvious because this interaction is going on now (although I am now since we are talking). Its so simple its almost stupid, forget what nonduality, god, consciousness means, thats not what I'm talking about. Im basically saying, I don't know what anything is, but "something" is going on and what ever it is, is going on, like duh. Then if you get the stupid simplicity of that, and are not longer trying to figure out what exactly that may be, simply ask and maybe recognize, could what ever the mystery of whats going on, not be going during the inquiry of doing so.....?

Sharing my nondual understanding.. This understanding is in my eyes the pinnacle... You can't get past it..this right here is the end of all questions... So listen up and please try to understand what I'm sharing before just going "neo-advaita trap" on me. Really let this shit in First.. and then go ahead and disagree lol. Nonduality means not two. Reality is not two. This is the only basic fact that I'm gonna use. It's not gonna become not two in the future. It is not two right now. Now you have a trillion and one questions about reality.. Notice that all your questions are nothing but duality. That's what a question is. Asking a question =creating a duality. If you are conscious that reality is one thing.. What the fuck do you ask about? Why do you create imaginary Dualities? . Let's take an example and then apply it to whatever questions you have. Do I exist? There is no answer to this question. Why? Because the question is just duality. And reality is nonduality. I= a duality or a distinction. There is I.. And there is other stuff out there that are not I.. But see there is no such things.. No self and no other.. Just ONE being . Exist= a duality or a distinction. Existence and non-existence. Now you will say there is no such thing as non existence. It's only existence. But see existence is a distinction.. If you make sense of it.. It becomes a distinction. If you mean THIS.. THIS is not existence or non-existence or anything you think it is. This is just fucking this. And you don't know what this is because there is no one separate from this to know this. You get this ? Now apply that to all Dualities.. All questions.. All distinctions. What do you get? You get nothing. You get the present moment. You get just fucking this. You get reality =reality. You get silent. You get I am that I am. Every question is false.. And That's why there are no answers.. Because there is no question. Every item on every question is an illusion. A distinction that isn't real. You can grasp this now.. or you can keep spinning the wheels of the mind until your mind collapses and then you will just grasp this. So why not take the easy route and just grasp it right now? That's it if you fully grasp this you are enlightened. You will understand all of reality in one shot. Not the details ofcourse .... But the details and the you and the understanding will be all happening within this lense.

After reading AH Almaas description that duality couldn't exist without nonduality and that anything nondual exists within nonduality, I had a peak experience. This was in 2015. Being that my capacity as an artist is arrested at the level of a second grader, I chose crayola to create my artistic expression of this. That is ultimately there is only nonduality but within are pockets of dualism. That's Nisargadatta's statement after his enlightenment in the upper right. "Nothing is wrong anymore". Not even my bad art.

@Mikael89 can you say anything or ask any questions without creating a distinction? See now you are creating a duality between duality and nonduality. See you are just spinning the fucking wheels again . You don't get it yet.