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@Serotoninluv , @Preetom I propose reversing the all duality paradox's all together AT current i feel like 1 and 2 become 1 then that 1 becomes 2 (by natural phenomena) and that becomes 1 then becomes 2 again, the strange loop never ends. YOu are left with paradoxs with no answer at all. Given you reverse all paradox's you create new terminological meaning and then you can rearrange with your true ego this time. Its basically what i feel leo is doing. You can't read into a situation properly unless your enlightened to some degree thats one issue The second issue is that if your enlightened and you end up being content with absolute nothingness or what ever position you are at then thats completely fine as we all know. But it , itself , to me that is. Does not signify it's the end but only grounds for a new landmark to take place. Since i believe something is changing. even if something is nothing. nothing is changing to or non are changing and this is where you end up with @winterknight negating dualities. I think here all thats left after this is imagination. Not the imagination of the false ego you create out of unconsciousness but the true ego you create out of consciousness and then you split back into 2 and then go to 1 ,2,1,2,1 and it's a never ending cycle for the whole of infinity.

@Hellspeed although i don't critise your expressionism; IT is very abstract :') @purerogue comment had me in stitches; none the less i can see both sides of the arguement; i think what ITs saying is there's no hidden meaning of nothingness in your words; your just throwing out pure expression of imagination and its difficult for unenlightened people to grasp and so its so called scyfy looooL!

Recent experiences have led me to question whether absolute nothingness, infinity , void or other are truly the end of end. Let me state first that, if self-deception is total, which i don't hold in concept i truly experience it. Then i would concur that: Give a creator some tool and he will create bullshit give a bullshit some tool and he will spread bullshit give the bullshitted some tools and he will replicate bullshit IN OTHER WORDS, if you give absolute nothing tools he will create bullshit? "it can not be encapsulated, only in the now etc.. etc... , you have not got what is being said, you are conceptualising etc.. etc... " the human animal bullshitting machine can only bullshit as much as you feed it; so naturally the way to stop this is to feed it absolutely nothing However! We are still stringing nows together, here is where words have broken down and i can not articulate metaphysical meaning but have to do my best with analogies and metaphors to state the obvious. So i will do the counter intuitive thing and state the obvious without explanation here All maps of the territories are cycles because the nature of awareness A) 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8787878789789789789789,10,7,8,9,10 etc etc --> the 10 ox herding pictures B) All strange loops C) Rebirth cycles in hinduism Rebirths as such in our recontexctualise meaning YOU! are now the one processing infinity with limited resources and so the recontextualised bullshit now belongs in this domain of relativity with implications of absolute nothingness associated NOW! imagine! Its obvious now that you created yourself at a starting point, forgot about yourself and then self-goverened yourself, (YOU in the BIG sense) but how did you THINK of what something is You defined something through perception / not perception But what is absolute Something!! sure the perception bought it to reality in duality terms, but you bought it to reality in non duality terms You! imagined it ! and it appeared, the creation was the intricate design. It had no use or purpose. It was simply imagined for the sake of understanding what am i. IT has to know initifity of itself to know what infinity feels like itself so you imaged yourself as this inifnity void that has no conceptuality just acceptance of a bigger self again I am now the creator but i don't have the ability to create. I have the tools to create something but what is something! pure awareness and void - IS imagination - ALSO IS the term we call imagination if ou recontextualise it! it becomes creation. Imagination is creation We are creating reality itself with imagination!! So if we are being now as you, what is the purpose - to play your part but what is the purpose - non duality but what was the purpose - Image the end of the strange loop between creation and creation ~ true non duality OR ABSOLUTE SOMETHING Kind regards My human animal bullshitting machine and ME.

@SOUL Love it, haha! I look at it this way; I am unable to tell if there is a mind besides my own. How could I possibly know that? I can recieve no evidence of these "minds" through my direct experience. All I know is that there are thoughts, beliefs, actions, appearances. And something that claims those it's own. This core idea; belief. Ivan. And than there is also awareness. Nothingness. Infinity. Aware of all those. Of itself. What do I compare the sanity of my mind to? How can I know my mind is less or more deluded than any other? There is no way to tell that. Therefore, my conclusion is that, from where I stand, there is no other mind who can be trusted. Sanity is insanity.

When I was 7 years old I awoke from a dream and knew without any doubt at all what the world felt like from a girl's perspective. Although being just a prepubescent girl in the dream, there was a nonspecific boy whom I felt great love for. Whenever in the past I've tried relating this dream, it was always twisted by others into a sign of repressed homosexuality. In my local culture there is a lot of polarity thinking. It's either this or that. In spite of the dream, as Ken Wilbur puts it, I'm a hard wired heterosexual. It doesn't help that my nature is somewhat androgynous and I'm a heretic who openly associates with gay people. This local culture, for the most part, when saying the name Obama or the term liberal, a negative tone is used and it is just assumed the listener is also of like mind. So, in spite of having the dream and being somewhat androgynous in attitude, I grew up as an ordinary man pig. Actually, I'm quite a horndog. That's kind of the rule for Adrenal types though. From Maurice Nicoll: THE FEELING OF NOTHINGNESS “When the Work says that a man must come to realize his own nothingness before he can be re-born, it does not mean that he must humble himself and so on, but that he must by long self-observation actually begin to realize that he is nothing and that there is no such person as himself. The object of this is to get into a position, psycho- logically speaking, between the opposites...Why is it so important to get somewhere into the centre of the pendulum and not swing to and fro? Because here, between the opposites, lie all the possibilities of growth. Here influences from higher levels can reach us. Here, in this place where one can feel one’s own nothingness (and where one is therefore free from contradictions), influences and meanings com- ing from higher centres, which have no contradictions, can be felt. Not regarding yourself as good or bad, not priding yourself on being just or otherwise, not thinking you are well-treated or badly-treated, not being caught by either movement through identifying, you come into this mid-position. This is not easy! With personality active, it is impossible.

Awareness is alive nothingness. Awareness is intelligent nothingness.

@ground "Simultaniously" might be an inappropriate word if taken strictly. But you get the point. Also, who says "it is impossible to impute truth and see emptiness [of truth] at the same time." ? I am not to be nothing merely. I am to recognize nothing and make something out of it. How does life occur over there? Does it occur at all? If there is no one, only pure nothingness, how does that interract; function? Are you open about it in your every social encounter? Do you interract with everybody as if they were nothing as well? As if they literally are you? Or do you just laugh "from the inside" and play out whatever you play out? I am honestly curious. I understand there might be no trace of an Ego. But there must be beingness. Isness. Awareness. What is that like over there? I dig you tho, nothing.

Name: Arthur Bondar Age: 25 Gender: Male Location: Halifax, Canada (Lived in Ukraine and Israel) Occupation: Electronics Engineering Marital Status: In a relationship Kids: No Hobbies: meditation, books, programming, movies, this forum. I got into personal development in 2014. I found Actualized.org at a time of a big personal struggle, and from that moment, my life was never the same. I came to a cross-road and made a significant life decision. It wasn't easy, but I was rewarded with a teacher like Leo to guide me. I immediately recognized the deep wisdom of Actualized.org. It's been a very bumpy ride, but today, I'm reaping the benefits. I first started by improving my social skills, like any other young male. Here, Personal development opened my eyes to how much we care about what others think. I found what women are actually attracted too, and how the whole dynamic works. Many of my naive beliefs got crushed, and from the fire, a more mature understanding emerged. The quality of my life improved dramatically when I started Meditating. Every experience became infused with awareness. My mind is able to stay focused, sharp and clear. I'm can shift out of negative thought loops and destructive emotions. I consider Meditation to be the most important activity of all. 12 years of formal education is not as important as a meditation habit. Practicing meditation got me deeper into Spiritual work. Here, my life was changed once again by self-inquiry and psychedelics. I've experienced deep mystical states - Samadhi, ego death, and pure awareness. Today I know myself as empty consciousness that is aware of everything. All things come out of nothingness to the spotlight (me) for a brief moment, then disappear into the void. Personal challenges I've overcome: Playing video games and wasting time Moving to a new country to start a new life Problems with shyness and caring what others think Co-dependent relationships Unhealthy diet and lifestyle Attachment and ego-clinging What I'm working on now: Helping others and contributing to the world Gaining more practical skills Working on my Life Purpose Self-realization - Enlightenment

I think you should seperate this NEW NEW NEW NEW age ideas I.E imagination from the enlightenment / spirituality thread. Maybe call it nothingness or something But i think theres a clear gap in individuals understanding and its like you said the lessons aren't being toned down simply to grasp. Theres too large of a gap in my opinion. Let me know what you think? or any of you for that matter really.

But who is aware of that nothingness?

@Rilles yes very easy just nothingness

Recent experiences has caused me to question what the divine play is. In hinduism ... it ... is called leela. If we are all playing our role, then who is watching out for the overall role. It is a natural paradox, am i big or small. This is the duality that leads to I am small-big and this is what we call non duality. I am small , i am big , i am small-big , i am big-small as long as in your role you identify with ONE thing you are non- dual. Could it be as such, that the role of playing ONE thing has no distinct boundaries, therefore it only leaves the role and term "playing in the now" "What came first the chicken or the egg" in other words what came first Something or nothing ... The answer we know now is nothing .... they appeared at the same time , in fact they are non dual. so for all dualities to collapse you have to arrive at the point where all terms are the same between big and small and the obvious answer you arrive at is simple... the big and small are dualities, the answer can not be encapsulated by any human standards, besides absolute truth and void or another definite of complete nothingness. Okay so you arrive here and lets say you let go of everything entirely... you become non duality itself .. You become one thing! A force of nature, belonging to a bigger self ... YOU itself I agree you can become absolutely nothing, but you can't actualise absolute nothing unless you actualise absolutely something in other words, might it be that as non duality... the role we play is one role ... to create something out of nothing! The paradox turns inwards and the duality completely collapses! saying we are absolute nothingness does not raise consciousness levels fast, the fastest way is to produce something out of nothing. produce yourself out of nothing. Human is only a construct itself, pure awareness however is the only thing real ofcourse! but only as far as hallucinations go! or absolute nothingness. what are your thoughts on this matter? reality constructing itself?

@Leo Gura A question I have had for a while .. do you think Sadhguru’s inner engineering, hatha yoga, and shoonya (also a kriya designed to experience nothingness) will give the same benefits as the kriya yoga you speak of? I do want to go slower and safer (sadhguru’s way) but I also do want to experience the benefits of the hardcore kriya yoga you speak of

@cetus56 Not so easy to do in this life: The pain is the pain. A person saying, "I am the pain," without suffering is rare. There is a special kind of mole that doesn't have any nerves that could do this. That's why we use our life purpose as a vehicle to actualize with flow -- to reduce our karma and hopefully, by the end of our lives, reach nirvana and graduate from this life so we don't have to be embodied in any ego ever again. Or...we have the free will to go anywhere and become anything, anytime/anywhere after we reach nirvana. That's what it means too, right? Everythingness / Nothingness.

The day you realize you don't need shit, shit stops owning you. You are a slave if you want to think if your self as that. If you go deeper and realice that we are all nothing, one of nothingness, no limits, all. Then why even work....

@ground You are right, awareness has no objective qualities. You can't find it with your senses. You can only become aware that you are aware. Saying I found it sounds like it was lost like an object, like I lost my keys and I fond them on the floor. It's hard to name the event because nothing really happened. I was nothing before, but the nothing wrapped itself in thoughts and couldn't see itself outside of them properly. When the thoughts stopped I saw myself as I am and then I remembered I always was. Saying that nothingness is somethingness is also not wrong though since nothing ultimately takes the form of absolutely everything, but I haven't had the direct experience of that yet. I'm currently at the stage of disentangling emptiness and form.

@ground i think he is talking beyond that. of course the words are the limitations. but yes, i agree with you... "Antonius" cannot have found nothingness. Antonius/the ego/character can NEVER find nothingness. the real self currently identifying with Antonius would have come into contact with itself briefly

If you found Nothingness then Nothingness actually is Somethingness. Otherwise you couldn't have found it.

Yes, exactly! I like what you said there. You're talking about the natural deep force. I call it flow. This is definitely part of enlightenment (truth). Because in the real thing (truth), there is a flow. The ego (our human embodiment), upon initial thought, likes to think of this as a massive, grandiose, powerful, infinite light that flows back into the human body (ego) from the nothingness / everythingness, but in reality (truth), it's just a transformation from the nothingness from the truth's "perspective." No distance at all. No suffering when this happens. Only peace and love as a result. Anyway, we're blessed with different talents, interests, and abilities because of the flow -- go with the flow to create less suffering and peace in our world in our own ways as individuals. Our thoughts are flowing in coming from the nothingness telling us about this. Just let your unwanted thoughts flow away and be present since this creates suffering. This monk is practicing the effortless action. I like to call it meditative flow:

Mi take on this is that everything has to come from nothingness. There must be a point where nothing was there, and matter manifested from that nothing... our mind can't not comprehend it, because we have an "idea" of what nothing is. Let's say that nothing is a state where there's all the possibilities for everything to manifest. It contradicts our logic. In that nothingness everything is manifested. The only thing that exist is nothing, or you can call it silence, the void. Our mind try to separate things to understand. It says, here there's a person, a tree, an animal, etc... but everything is made of the same substance. Awareness. Some people call it God, others the source, others nothingness, and so on... God has thousands of names. It is personal and impersonal at the same time... and I won't continue writing because everything I write is not even near of what reality is. God is the ultimate reality. Think of nothingness as the ultimate truth. Truth shall make you free!

Recently, I started to get a glimpse of how profound Quantum Mechanics is. I've heard about the famous Double Slit Experiment when I was in high school. I even did some basic calculations of the interference pattern in my college physics class. Yet, it never occurred to anybody just how counter-intuitive, profound, and outright bizarre that experiment is. Brief description Imagine you have a loaded gun pointed at a wall with two slit openings. Behind it is another one, where every bullet entry can be clearly seen. The first wall acts as a sieve for all the bullets fired at the second wall. Common sense suggests that only the bullets fired at a specific angle will go through. After hundreds of rounds fired from different angles, you should expect two lines on the second wall. Those lines are a projection of the two primary slits. After a good number of rounds, the emerging pattern was very counter-intuitive. The marks suggested that a bullet was not following a straight path. There were bullet holes found in spots that were physically un-reachable without curving the bullet direction. The marks appeared in an Interference pattern, which is a phenomenon of waves. It can be observed at a beach when ocean waves encounter rocks. Still, bullets - electrons, are not waves, they are real physical particles. Your body and everything around us is made out of them... or so it seems. This result was basically the stuff of science fiction. It suggested that when a bullet was shot, it immediately transformed into a soup of all possible positions. It collapsed back into a bullet again when it reached the second wall. And then it got even weirder... When scientists put a measuring device that catches the bullet's exact position. They stopped transforming into a wave and acted just as regular physical entities! There was no Interference pattern, and the results were predictable. When they removed the measuring devices, the pattern appeared again. So what the hell is going on? The conclusion was that the act of observation collapses this wave of infinite possibilities into a single point of outcome. Yet when you are not looking, it all exists as a primordial singularity, infinite potential or a probability function. Although this function (Bell curve distribution) favors certain outcomes, there is never a 0% chance for any outcome. This result caused credible scientists to consider that we truly live in a simulation. We are in a game engine that and only renders things we actually need to see. Like a game character uncovering dark areas on the map, except that dark areas are non-existent prior to discovery. I'd like to hear your conclusion. Here is mine: Aside from quotes like "when you are not looking at the moon, it isn't there". What this seems to suggest is that consciousness is not separate from the "outside" events. In fact, there are is no external reality. Everything exists as nothingness, void, and infinite potential until consciousness is introduced. That stoplight awareness gives rise to the 10,000 things we see around us. Like an old movie projector with a tape running through it. The tape images become visible only through the light of the projector. The present moment manifests itself only because of awareness. There is no outside reality to present experiences. We are the raw experience that collapses the emptiness and manifests reality every single moment.

Last night i did around 20 minutes of kriya yoga and drifted off into deep meditation before bed. I usually do this. I experienced some shaking of my nervous system, this also happens sometimes when working with the kundalini. However this time was different. The usuall darkness ( with a hint of red) of the nothingness i dwell in during the meditation shifted. I started using a mantra ( I AM) as my mind started chattering. A few minutes into the mantra there was a clearing. The nothingness turned into a powerful shimmering golden light. There was no mind, no thought, it was so obvious, it was so clear, it was right there. I could not help but laugh and laugh. It felt like the magician showed me how the magic trick was done and i was laughing at myself for how obvious it was and how silly i had been. The laughing calmed... i meditated. It was blissfull, it was pure, i could go on forever without a problem. 15 minutes passed ( i think). I opened my eyes, i laughed some more, i spoke from the seat of my awareness. The clouds were gone. The smog had been lifted. What dominated was a presence, my awareness is what dominated the room, it was beyond my body, but my body was part of it, perhaps happening through it. It was perfect, i wanted more meditation, just to be with it. It lasted around 25 minutes in total, maybe longer, i dont know. I led down. It was over. The light as a feather state of bliss was gone... I am not sure. It felt like that was it, it just seemed so obviously the case, like i knew it. What is left is a desire to take the persuit more seriously and with more respect. Just thought i would share because i know you lot love this kinda shit, didnt know where else to go. Much love and peace to you all. xx

The mind perspective is what made you write those descriptions about reallity. Reallity simply is, cannot be conceptualized. Otherwise is not Awakening. From a perspective of Awakening nothingness is something. But cannot be explained. As much as one has experiences with awakenings and dreams, and sacred geometry etc, they are just EGO based perspectives, the fellings, the tripping. Awakening and Reallity are beyond thought and feeling. Is not a middle perspective of yin and yan, is a full circle integrating everything in the unspoken.

@SoonHei Yes @Yousef Yes it is apsolutely nothing but this nothingness is alive and aware as I remember Leo saying. It's one single be-ing, one infinite singularity. There cannot be two, that is duality and separation which is an illusion. So yea, it's all One. It's all God.

@Leo Gura if you go all the way to end of illusion. then YOU is an illusion aswell. The TRUTH is an illusion. Basically everything is an illusion, nothing is real at all. its neither beautiful or unconditional love. There is no YOU either thats the TRUTH. absolute infinity, bhrama, oneness, void, nothingness , all these words are synonymous and breakdown before the TRUTH because it becomes itself. ITS just different levels of letting go along the whole way. UNTIL YOU SURRENDER EVERYTHING TO THE TRUTH. AND ONLY LIVE IN TRUTH. no life, no death , no reality. just THE TRUTH that is the one who is conscious - the highest conscious mind. (Aakash as TRUTH not truth presently)