Soonhei (Member of this community) killed himself to experience Conscious Death. :-(

[RMQualtrough]

@Terell Kirby Nihilism ought not to be seen as a negative. I think that is down to objective vs subjective again. In actual fact Nihilism is very freeing and positive, as opposed to something like a dictatorship where a higher power is imposing rules and such on us, and we have to do X, Y or Z to have lived a meaningful existence.

Just a perspective change... Put more emphasis on subjectivity and a lot of the oddities like existential crisis is less likely.

Why not kill myself? Because I feel happy and content. The objective truth matters no more than if someone advised you go stick your hand in a bee hive. Does it really matter the absolute reality of the thing?

[kieranperez]

@Leo Gura l’m sure you’ve considered this but I would highly recommend you look into maybe creating safeguards around what you teach. I personally don’t agree with many of your newer teachings and approaches. That said, your work has undoubtedly saved many lifes and actually kept people from killing themselves. I say that because I am one of those people. I think you’re actually very clear on many of the things people take for granted. That said man, it might be wise to create some safe guards. 

For example, I know certain particular Zen masters that have very real and powerful siddhis that have talked openly about that stuff with me. However, they don’t share their more advanced teachings except for those that have demonstrated they can be trusted and have earned those teachings through merit and hard work. This is true for virtually any school or lineage. Of course, that’s not really how you have established yourself but putting yourself out there for the kind a things you have to say to the general public has dangers that I imagine might backfire on you in a few years. Although this is the sort of second coming of the psychedelic renaissance, its also introducing psychedelics to a culture that is utterly clueless and stupid about many of the things you, myself, and (hopefully) many others on this forum do our homework on. This project failed with the boomers that were 2.5 times less narcissistic (there’s a 2013 Time magazine study that goes into this) than millennials (god help Gen Z). Quite frankly I don’t trust the responsibility and the power that will be in the hands of these people, regardless of whether or not this movement gets co-opted by corporate interests (which, as far as I’m concerned, it probably will). And I imagine a lot of people have their target set on you so it might not be the best strategy down the road.

Just something to consider. Like I said, I may disagree with some of your stances in terms of spirituality and what not, but by and large you seem like a guy who has his head on straight and god knows your worked literally saved my life so I’d hate to see you go down. Best of luck in navigating this. 

[Leo Gura]

42 minutes ago, SpiritualAwakening said:

I don't think people have grievances necessarily, I feel like people would love to experience the Heart-side of Leo and less Mind-sided.

I understand some of you feel that way, but I am not here to be who you think I should be.

I see that many of you are into this idea and are frustrated that I don't indulge your ideas of how an ideal guru is supposed to behave. But at some point you will understand that consciousness and love can be expressed in many different ways, not just as a bleeding heart.

To me, mind IS heart.

But I know what you mean and I understand why you want it. But from my POV what you want of me would not be true to who I authentically am. The more conscious I become the more authentic I act, but the more it turns some of you off because it does not fit your image of some happy go lucky blissed out feminine guru who personally loves you.

I don't personally love you. I love you in a deeply metaphysical way which you probably do not feel or understand. And I am not going to try to fake a personal love for you to fit some stereotype of the ideal guru.

[diamondpenguin]

Yeah guys Leo's personality is intp. Hes a logician, a scientist. The motherfucker was a rocket scientist in his first two years in college. Leo is a scientist guys, that's the way they are. That's why I love Leo's work at first, because he comes at truth from a scientific logician perspective. Not from a feeley woohoo fairy fairy brainless social butterfly hippie non experimental place. He really does science with the psychedelics. It's really cool for science nerds like me. And leo is science nerd too! So Science Nerd Power! 

[VeganAwake]

With all due respect to his family, friends and this community.

It's nobody's fault... nobody's.

Like Leo said, nobody really knows what was going on there. 

Often times this sort of thing is long planned and hidden very well so it won't be interrupted unfortunately.

In 2013 we lost a friend that was playing poker with us the very night before he shot himself in the armory the next morning... literally no one saw it coming, it was absolutely mind-boggling and tragic at the time.

There are lots of Suicide Prevention programs available nowadays.... the one they taught us was called ACT.

A-ask

C-care

T-treat

 

❤

 

 

[charlie cho]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I will say this and teach this whether you decide to torture someone or not. If you decide to torture someone, those consequence are 100% on you, even though its all a dream. Dreams have consequences.

In a dark room, even when what you have seen is just a rope, you can believe it to be a snake. You will perspiring, you will become exhausted, your heart will pound, you cry, and you may faint because of it too. The reality is that there was never a snake in your room, just a rope. A simple rope has made such an impact on you. Some actually die of fear because they have such idiotic dreams. So there is a consequence in the real world when you have a phantom, a dream, or a false idea in your mind. Be wary of what you believe in. Be wary of what dreams you have. A dream has endless powers to destroy you, from money problems, relationship problems, illness, to death. In fact, as you may know, the cause of most illnesses come out of mental phantoms. 

[SpiritualAwakening]

54 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't indulge your ideas of how an ideal guru is supposed to behave.

I don't have an "ideal guru" I love your work

54 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But at some point you will understand that consciousness and love can be expressed in many different ways, not just as a bleeding heart.

We're already way beyond that point, I see where you're coming from, not asking to pour out the bleeding heart.

54 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But from my POV what you want of me would not be true to who I authentically am.

Showing the Heart-side is not authenticity? At least it's not some foundational framework, context or constructs. To me Heart is as much a part of True Understanding as of Mind

54 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

your image of some happy go lucky blissed out feminine guru who personally loves you.

Oh please don't..

54 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't personally love you.

Ew you freak! Lol

54 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I love you in a deeply metaphysical way which you probably do not feel or understand. And I am not going to try to fake a personal love for you to fit some stereotype of the ideal guru.

I Know the way you love us Leo as I feel the same way to myself and therefore to all of man-kind, all I'm trying to say is teachings aren't just mind sided but I know it's the way you like to go about things. Also I don't have some stereotype guru, I'm purely talking from my own Seeing and experience.

Edited May 20, 2021 by SpiritualAwakening

[jimwell]

6 hours ago, Preety_India said:

8 hours ago, jimwell said:

@SoonHei

He sent me a message once. I hadn't talked to him and didn't know him but he was compassionate and positive in his message. So, the good things you said about your brother must be true. 

I feel very sad about what happened to him. I wish he had chosen a different decision or place. Continue grieving, but from time to time, remember he is at least free from any form of suffering now and can't be harmed in any way. And that the best thing you can do is to finally overcome the grief. That is probably what he wants for you and the rest of his family.

 

To Leo and forum members here:

Making crazy claims but can't back it up with actions have already done much harm. If you had walked more and talked less, you would have been more careful in your talks. You would have changed your claims from "Life and Death are imaginary. Don;t worry about it. Look at me, I don't". "You are God and Only you exist, your family and friends don't. SO don't worry about it. Look at me, I don't."     to     "Life and Death are real. And so is pain. So be careful. But when you get to a point where your consciousness gets so elevated, you see Life, Death, Family, and Friends as imaginary, still be careful. Because imagination is also real."

Most humans are easily persuaded by "authority" figures. So, they tend to believe things, no matter how outlandish and absurd they are. My speculation is Sunny believed he could finally awaken from the "imaginary dream" of life after jumping from the bridge. It was a dogmatic belief, no skepticism and no experience of "awakening" or "God-realization". I also speculate there have been many followers of Leo (vulnerable ones) who have been harmed directly or indirectly via his teachings. But we never heard of them because nobody reported.

The messages between you and him are so ironic and haunting.

 

@Preety_India

Yes, that is why his death devastates me. If he hadn't sent me this message, I wouldn't have been as affected.

My heart is wounded right now. I hope death really is heaven for him.

Edited May 20, 2021 by jimwell
added user

[Absolute]

May he realize what he couldn't realize in the next dream..

[captainamerica]

Sorry about your loss. Hope he finds peace.

 

_/\_

Edited May 20, 2021 by captainamerica

[charlie cho]

I really don't think Leo should take this guy seriously. This guy was on the verge of suicide anyways. It happened to be that he was associated with actualized.org in this specific point of time. To be honest with you, @Leo Gura , I don't think this guy was intelligent in the first place if he actually killed himself thinking it will help him spiritually. That's about the most dumbest shit I've ever heard of. He is in fact irresponsible to leave his children and wife like that. Very nonspiritual, in my opinion. 

A real man of spiritual essence would dedicate his life to dying before dying. In what world do you think your ego will die if you kill yourself? Your body will die, but your ego will be left! Your dreams, your past experiences will not die, just because your body has died! 

You will be the same suffering idiot that you were before. Huh....

I know I should be compassionate to him. I don't know if he did this out of spiritual pursuit or out of deep suffering. If it is from suffering, he should be clear that this was not because of actualized.org. If it was for spiritual pursuit, I cannot take him seriously.

I know what it is like to want to kill yourself because of deep suffering! I know it! huh.... I may not criticize him so harshly if this was the case, but still, I will never try and encourage such behavior............. One must look at the muse, his dreams, his love of life, and pursue that muse to the end of the universe, however so painful and full of suffering it might be. That's what makes life so beautiful.... I really say this out of compassion and sadness to the man who had killed himself 

People like Leo who proposes advanced spiritual concepts are met with two kinds of people usually. One are really fucked up psychologically ill people and the other are people who have relatively healthy minds craving for something more essential than their superficial lives. People in between do not come to Leo because they are usually occupied with their jobs, family, and relationships. They don't have time to think about love, happiness, or philosophy. Psychologically ill people need love, happiness, and support, so they leech onto people like Leo. 

This guy who died is obviously the latter. 

I know what it feels like to suffer and really consider killing yourself. I've been there. I was fucking close, yet I solved it because of one attitude. It was mental. All mental. I had a health problem called Chronic pelvic pain syndrome. Search it up, and you'll know how painful it is. I solved it by doing what Eckhart Tolle, OSHO had said. Be loving towards the world, only then can happiness come. How can there be happiness if you hate yourself and the world you live in? 

The compassionate thing to do is not encourage this man's suicidal behavior. Yes, one is sad about it. One wishes it would have been different. Yes, one can feel the suffering of the deceased one. However, do not encourage the behavior of being unloving towards himself and others. In my assessment of the man, he hasn't been so compassionate to himself or the world. Whether the reason was to kill himself for his spiritual quest or to just end his suffering I don't know. If it was the former, I have no words but "tough luck", but if it was the latter, I will have to say, "I wish I could have done better for you even if I never knew you." 

Whatever reason, I feel he should've been more aware of his surroundings and most importantly himself. Consequences follow when one is unaware of the world and himself and is unloving of the world and himself. Let us learn from this man... but not take him too seriously like we are now!

Edited May 20, 2021 by charlie cho

[DrewNows]

Soonhei was and will always be an angel, sending love and light to all those who had the privilege to exchange with him. Please know it had no part in his choice to end his life. His purpose and experience here had long been written, why else could he have been so god damn loving? Keep this in mind all you lovers out there, he is with you in spirit, any and every one of you he touched, is now carrying his creative loving nature. Use it for the betterment of yourself, he surely would be proud 

everyone who felt a deep connection with him, know it’s because you are worthy, you are enough and the divine is with you, tune in and pay him and your soul essence a visit every once in a while, I assure you it will lead to a more peaceful loving life XP

GOD BLESS 

[Preety_India]

Please understand that the family is reading this 

Attacking the guy should be against the ethos of this forum 

Shame on some of you 

Have compassion for the deceased.

This forum makes me angrier

 

 

 

[charlie cho]

@Preety_India Read the whole post I have written. I wasn't attacking the guy. My blunt way of speaking was out of compassion. I am saying, leaving your children like that ain't so beautiful! I say this out of compassion to the guy's family and his children. Think about their family, friends, and children! The suffering he has caused. At some point, he has to be aware the karma he has created which is his wife and children. Now, his children and wife has to bear that suffering their whole lives, and the man will have to discard the karma of leaving his wife and children cold turkey? This is a lose lose situation for him. Lose for his friends and family, and a lose for himself. He has already blown it. It is necessary to call him out and tell him what he had done wrong. When you own child hits another child, you tell him he had fucked up, even when the milk has already been spilled. You tell him he has fucked up, especially when the milk has already been split, because you don't want him to fuck himself or the other child again. Telling him "You have fucked yourself over" is not hatred. It's beautiful. Read the whole post please.

You don't just give him props because he is deceased. Everyone will die, it is not an accomplishment. Even if he is dead, you tell him the truth. Especially when he is dead, you tell him the truth. If you can't be honest with the dead, how can you expect to be honest with life? I am being honest to the dead. You don't just let him slack off in his spiritual growth just because he is dead. 

I play basketball, and I know what is the best thing to do for a player who is struggling at his pinnacle and is emotionally wary and confused. You yell at him as loudly as you can because you love him. You love him so you yell at him and may even beat him and slap him in the face. I know this, because once a coach did this to me. You must understand compassion can be expressed in two ways, not one.

Edited May 20, 2021 by charlie cho

[Preety_India]

@charlie cho people do things for their own reasons. Not everything is about selflessness, selfishness, judgement yaada yaada 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Preety_India

[charlie cho]

@Preety_India I edited my post: added something to it for you to read.

[Preety_India]

@sda look suicide is not a matter of judgement. If I died the last thing I would want is people discussing whether it was right or wrong 

I would simply want people to empathize with my situation and offer compassion for my soul. That's all.

Is this hard ?

Who are we to decide if what the person did is right or wrong ? Most likely it's wrong because it's hurtful 

But the point is not about deciding whether it's right or wrong but understanding why and how it happened and how it could have been prevented and offering understanding, love and compassion and respect to the deceased for their action.

Nobody likes to die. Suicide is just another cry for help, the ultimate cry for help when it's too late.

Can we judge someone for crying ?

 

[jimwell]

7 minutes ago, charlie cho said:

@Preety_India Read the whole post I have written. I wasn't attacking the guy. My blunt way of speaking was out of compassion. I am saying, leaving your children like that ain't so beautiful! I say this out of compassion to the guy's family and his children. Think about their family, friends, and children! The suffering he has caused. At some point, he has to be aware the karma he has created which is his wife and children. Now, his children and wife has to bear that suffering their whole lives, and the man will have to discard the karma of leaving his wife and children cold turkey? This is a lose lose situation for him. Lose for his friends and family, and a lose for himself. He has already blown it. It is necessary to call him out and tell him what he had done wrong. When you own child hits another child, you tell him he had fucked up, even when the milk has already been spilled. You tell him he has fucked up, especially when the milk has already been split, because you don't want him to fuck himself or the other child again. Telling him "You have fucked yourself over" is not hatred. It's beautiful. Read the whole post please.

You don't just give him props because he is deceased. Everyone will die, it is not an accomplishment. Even if he is dead, you tell him the truth. Especially when he is dead, you tell him the truth. If you can't be honest with the dead, how can you expect to be honest with life? I am being honest to the dead. You don't just let him slack off in his spiritual growth just because he is dead. 

I play basketball, and I know what is the best thing to do for a player who is struggling at his pinnacle and is emotionally wary and confused. You yell at him as loudly as you can because you love him. You love him so you yell at him and may even beat him and slap him in the face. I know this, because once a coach did this to me. You must understand compassion can be expressed in two ways, not one.

Your analysis is off. You can be compassionate by being direct and blunt. But being arrogant and a bully is not being compassionate. Your coach bullied you, and now you are bullying others. You are just a typical bully (but self-deceived).

Show some respect to Sunny and his family. Contemplate and be careful before opening your mouth.

[Preety_India]

@jimwell exactly

[charlie cho]

@Preety_India I'm saying this is not Leo's fault. I never said don't kill yourself. Suicide is your choice. I'm saying we have no responsibility over it, including Leo. People blaming Leo for this is utter fucking nonsense. It's so fucking stupid. I feel this energy in this forum where people are blaming Leo. Fuck you. And saying fuck you to these people, people then associate people like me who say, "fuck you" as saying "fuck you" to the deceased guy. We weren't saying "fuck you" to the deceased soul, we were saying "fuck you" to you specifically who blame people who had no responsibility over it.