"Leo, but what if you're deluded?"

[tedens]

We should distinquish religion from spirituality first.  Here lies huge misunderstanding.

 

Edited May 22, 2019 by tedens

[tsuki]

3 minutes ago, tedens said:

We should distinquish religion from spirituality first.  Here lies huge misunderstanding.

Well, I did - spirituality is about direct insight, religion is about stories that explain them to laypeople.
They both aim at relieving suffering, no?

[Joseph Maynor]

31 minutes ago, tsuki said:

What's wrong with religion?

Nothing, but if that's what Actualized.org has become, then that should be made explicit; namely, we're here as an audience to listen to Leo preach to us his religion like it's the absolute truth.  That's very different from what Actualized.org used to be.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[bejapuskas]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

After walking around in Dehli today I've come to the conclusion that we're all deluded and think we know everything.  But of course once you realize this what'ya gonna do -- keep yer mouth shut?  Not a chance!  Nobody can do that because we're know-it-all apes.  Our Egos are scared of death, we're competing for resources, and put simply we just need some damn entertainment so we yak yak yak yak at the mouth pretending our own shit don't stink.  There's no true humility among the human primate, don't bullshit yourself.  Everybody wants to have a bead on things if they're alive, it's just part of the trip.  We have a dog in the fight in this whether we have the cajones to admit it or not.  Some of us try to be slick and deny it, but you're only fooling the less intelligent monkeys among us including yourself.  So, stop pretending to be fair, you're not.  If you're alive you're one selfish, arrogant sonofagun.  So, let people have their delusions and let people argue.  Stop pretending you're superior by turning over the chess table instead of playing the game.  You are playing the game as passive aggressive and covert about it that you want to pretend to be -- YOU are playing the game and YOU want to be right.  Yes YOU.  We all wanna be the one right monkey among the troop of monkeys.

@Joseph Maynor Thanks for this  

[tsuki]

7 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

We're here to listen to Leo preach to us his religion.

It depends on you, I suppose. Do you gain anything out of his metaphysics, or do you simply treat it as a comforting story?
That is the difference between religion and spirituality - distraction/comfort vs embodiment.

Edited May 22, 2019 by tsuki

[tedens]

 

16 minutes ago, tsuki said:

They both aim at relieving suffering, no?

in part, yes.

 

11 minutes ago, tsuki said:

That is the difference between religion and spirituality - distraction/comfort vs embodiment.

one of several.

Anyway You can't be "fully" enlightened without  madness at least.

[tsuki]

Just now, tedens said:

one of several.

Do you care to name them? I'd like to hear your input.

[tedens]

@tsuki

Collective vs. Entity

Beliefs vs. Verification

Manipulation vs. Extrication

etc.

 

I can be excommunicated for this. ?

Edited May 22, 2019 by tedens

[Shin]

The day Leo will say that we have to give him money/our body to support God's plan,
I will reconsider my trust in him.

Until then it's all good philosophies and mental masturbation

[tedens]

@Shin Haven't You any free banana?

[Shin]

1 minute ago, tedens said:

@Shin Haven't You any free banana?

No Leo only give bananas to women,

He's a fillthy sexist.

[Aeris]

2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Yeah there's a place of not knowing -- it's called being in a coffin 6 feet in the ground.

ho no, you can litteraly loose your mind, take a lot of drug until the brain doesn't work, and do the same thing you ever did.

tada, not knowing. I mean, for me that was surely on some part of a trip, not always, didn't embody this everyday at every moment, doesn't believe you can do that.

what you still know ? smoke and take more drugs, as long as you cling to an idea of you of an idea of knowing consciously what you do.

did you ever experienced dementia  ? I could have litteraly loose my minds months ago.

not knowing can be known as the "flow" for artist, you can contemplate this more by drawing.

if you 100% embody the idea that you are alone, no one exist, you're god and all that, you experience a litteral shift in brain/mind, whatever, you really don't know, it's like your all thinking crumble to ashes, your own brain looks like a total bs story of shit

 it doesn't make sense, litteraly, reality is a giant shit load, so then, you awake on the fact that everyone is living on a island of shit

 

I m writting and still cling to the idea that things are, but in reality, writting, not writting, bvlablabalabalabala

 

simple, in drawing, you have both side : one you try to do something you know, the others is you don't know, so you just draw.

you can do that for everything I suppose, sort of

Edited May 22, 2019 by Aeris

[Truth Addict]

@Shin That's right, I love Actualized.org and I want it to become even better, I care if Leo becomes dogmatic precisely because he is a very great teacher and he'd helped to break out of dogma. Who are these other teachers you're talking about? I don't know anyone who can compete with Leo.

@Shaun Incarnation is a belief. Are you experiencing all of those thoughts right now in reality? The truth is the present moment, that's all you can know for sure, everything else is a story, a belief. I assure you, you're safe my friend.

@arlin Well, here's the thing about mystical experiences: they're true while they are happening, but when they're over, they become stories and fantasies. Now that's a fact. Also, keep in mind that you don't know anything about Leo except what he says, he might be making all of this shit up, I don't take his words for granted. I can agree that God is prior to proof and reason, but I'm not sure that applies to the point of creation, or in other words, why is there form in the first place? And why am I experiencing this exact human life? Absolute Infinity doesn't make much sense for me, since I'm only experiencing this limited life. I may not have had any mystical experiences, but who said that they qualify as Truth? Leo said that, of course.

 

[Leo Gura]

@Truth Addict Hahaha!

I've told you many times. Verify everything I say.

The reason you're not understamding what I said is because you have not reached those levels of consciousness because you aren't doing the practices seriously enough and you are not studying the books seriously enough.

It's just that simple.

Stay openminded. Don't let the religious language fool you.

You will eventually discover that Truth and the good life are identical.

There will come a point in your growth when your understanding will be so deep you will sound like a madman to others. They will not be able to know how you know the things you know. And yet you will possess the highest Truth. And no one will understand you nor will you be able to explain yourself. And so it must be. Because by that point you will have done 10-20 years of work which no one else is willing to do.

P.S. Watch your projections.

[arlin]

8 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

Well, here's the thing about mystical experiences: they're true while they are happening, but when they're over, they become stories and fantasies. Now that's a fact. Also, keep in mind that you don't know anything about Leo except what he says, he might be making all of this shit up, I don't take his words for granted. I can agree that God is prior to proof and reason, but I'm not sure that applies to the point of creation, or in other words, why is there form in the first place? And why am I experiencing this exact human life? Absolute Infinity doesn't make much sense for me, since I'm only experiencing this limited life. I may not have had any mystical experiences, but who said that they qualify as Truth? Leo said that, of course.

Yes, i like your objections. They make sense. I don't take everything for granted either, i question everything. I don't care who says it. 

I think experiences hold value though, more than concepts about truth. But i have a lot to study to reach signficant understanding about this.

Leo has studied those things for years now, and had incredible experiences. 

If he says something, i don't take it as absolute truth because of course i did not verify it for myself, but at least i take it as a valid consideration to as what truth can be.

Because he studied the shit out of this things, and i am incredibly ignorant, who am i to say otherwise?

So who are you to say otherwise @Truth Addict ?

[Shin]

10 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

@Shin That's right, I love Actualized.org and I want it to become even better, I care if Leo becomes dogmatic precisely because he is a very great teacher and he'd helped to break out of dogma. Who are these other teachers you're talking about? I don't know anyone who can compete with Leo.

@Shaun

 

 

• Sadhguru
• Byron Katie
• Adyashanti
• Eckhart Tolle
• Shinzen Young
• Matt Kahn
• Mooji

And many other that I forgot to mentioned + all the teachers that are dead.
And that's just for teachings about enlightenment.

If tomorrow Leo dies, it would only be a big deal because of attachment,
It wouldn't be a real loss, because all of what he's talking about can be found somewhere else.
Of course it won't be said in the same manner, you may not resonate as much, but still, everything you need to grow is out there.

[Joseph Maynor]

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

P.S. Watch your projections.

What about you Leo?  Do you watch your projections?  What's good for the goose is good for the gander, no?  You project quite a bit too.  A lot in fact.  You should take your own advice.  Your videos are an encyclopedia of projections.  Let's not have a double-standard around here.  A single sustainable standard is what we should aim for. 

Edited May 22, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[cetus]

@Truth Addict You really need to have a direct experience of Truth before you can even say what is truth. Without the direct experience it's all just stories and hear say. You'll fine it sooner or later. And when you do you'll say "Oh now I see what they're talking about".

 

[Truth Addict]

@tsuki I agree ? but I still don't want Leo to become a preacher. What I want though, is for Actualized.org to return back to relativity and multiple perspectives approach, not the one true perspective based on Leo's experiences, contemplations, and studies, whatever that means. I think Joseph took care of the rest quite well, but I'd like to add that I don't mind listening to beliefs as long as Leo is explicit about it. It's a psychological trick to tell people that I have the absolute truth and then tell them to verify for themselves, most people will believe it unconsciously, and that's what had happened, so here we are, see how much dogma going on here on the forum.

[Truth Addict]

@Leo Gura Nothing you say can ever be verified, it's preposterous. What is a memory's worth? All there is is the present moment, in its various degrees of awareness. All of those stories you say are beliefs, let's just be honest about that. I am watching my projections, but I'm not suppressing them.

@cetus56 And why did that objection come up just now after I mentioned that I didn't have any mystical experiences? It seems like my posts made sense until you found out that I'm not the mystical guy.