MrDmitriiV

The Dark Side of Leo Gura

127 posts in this topic

50 minutes ago, MrDmitriiV said:

but it is surely shitty in nature

awesome conclusion

i bet that you came to that conclusion either through direct experience or empirically 

 

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You might as well not try anything in life then? “Go to the Himalayas, it’s beautiful!” “AM I SUPPOSED TO BLINDLY BELIEVE THAT? YOU HAVE NO PROOF! IM NOT GONNA WASTE TWO WEEKS OF MY LIFE ON SOMETHING I CANT BE SURE OF IS TRUE!” xD

You dont have to hold beliefs so tightly, the truth is that are a lot of things that you don’t know but you think you do, like that there is space outside of earth, you never seen space but you believe in it, its equally foolish isn’t it?

Edited by Rilles

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@Leo Gura

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@FakeEnlightenment

Allow me to restate your logic back to you:

Funny how the mind works, huh? ;)

Wow, great job at twisting what I said into what you think I said and meant, and putting what you wrote into a quote box with my name. Did I say Chakras and non-material phenomena were impossible? Just said that there is no good explanation as to what they are or examples... Oh and i love the part about me projecting my delusions just because I picked a username. Get real man... For someone who preaches non-judgement and not to make assumptions, I would expect more of you. Guess my mind is just too enslaved in skepticism lmao

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@MrDmitriiV I understand where you are coming from and I'm still 30% in the same boat but I'm a bit further than you, here are some things that will hopefully help you.

1. Look at Wim Hof, he does supernatural stuff through yoga exercises so it cant be complete bullshit.

2. There are findings in neuroscience that the brains of Yoga practitioners are different.

3. Dont think of chakras as physical things that either exist or not. Think of them as helpful concepts. Does a rectangle "exist"?

Edited by MM1988

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@MM1988

1. There are findings in neuroscience that the brains of Heroin addicts are different.

So should we do heroin because they are "different"?

2. I don't need anymore concepts, most people have too many concepts already

I'll look at Wim Hof.


"It is the emptiness within the cup that makes it useful."

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17 minutes ago, MrDmitriiV said:

1. There are findings in neuroscience that the brains of Heroin addicts are different.

So should we do heroin because they are "different"?

The question is: what is the subjective effect of that objective difference?

All heroin addicts report they're fucked.

What do yoga practitioners report?

You try to proof you're right instead of getting to the truth.

No one makes you practice anything. No one makes you blindly believe in the power of Kriya.

What is the point of your blind assumptions and guestimations about Kriya? Go diligently try Kriya and then tell that it works or not, otherwise you're just bullshitting and this thread is nonsence.


 

 

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@Privet Why should I try Kriya Yoga instead of hundreds of other practices and different yogas?

Just because Leo said? You blindly follow his opinion.

i tried Kriya Yoga with a very open mind at first. In fact I was excited about it and didn't question it. 

But after doing it over a week, I realized that what you are doing with it is using imagination for those chakras. 

The path to awakening isn't picking a guru like Leo and blindly accepting his opinion and then defending it (are you people stage blue???), it isn't picking a random practice and investing your precious time just because someone said so.

Reread my post, it seems like you closed your eyes on its message.


"It is the emptiness within the cup that makes it useful."

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@MrDmitriiV All these explanations and definitions don't mean much really. They are not strict scientific-like proofs and are not much more valid than what you can see in this scene:

You can't get around believing here.

Experience is what counts, there is no better proof than experience. If people succeeded with it (and they did), then it works. And judging by what people say about Kriya, it's quite potent.

And if you want a logical explanation, here it is: after each Kriya routine you are supposed to just sit and concentrate / do nothing. The practices quiet the mind really well (much better than meditation for me, you don't need a year to feel it) and make the following meditation much more productive.

Another possibility for awakening is mastering the breathless state. If you hold you breath, you thought process also stops. The breathless state enables you not to breathe effortlessly for like 2 minutes (if I'm not mistaken), thus highly increasing the probability of awakening.

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@GreenDragon What explanations? There are no valid explanations regarding Kriya Yoga apart from your post, the other ones are just blindly defending Leo's opinion. Except the user @FakeEnlightenment

Experience? I did it other a week, after that I realized that the exercises make you use your imagination. 

It may work despite ironically using a mind-filter (imagination). 

Theres no general consensus with this practice. The marketing mass of this practice just ask people to use their imagination, they don't explain why and how it works. They just tell that "somehow" it works.

It doesn't mean Kriya won't work, it just means that there's something fundamentally wrong in the way it is being presented.

Your explanations make sense though! Thanks! (And why others don't explain it like you did?)

 

 

 


"It is the emptiness within the cup that makes it useful."

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31 minutes ago, MrDmitriiV said:

Just because Leo said?

Patanjali is the greatest name as far as the world of Yoga is concerned. He recommends Kriya-Yoga in chapter 2 of Patanjali's yoga sutras.

tapah svadhyay-eshvarapranidhanani kriya-yogah ||1||

तपः स्वाध्यायेश्वरप्रणिधानानि क्रियायोगः ॥१॥

Verse 1. KRIYA-YOGA IS A PRACTICAL, PRELIMINARY YOGA, AND IT IS
COMPOSED OF AUSTERITY, SELF-STUDY AND SURRENDER TO GOD.

Verse 2. THE PRACTICE OF KRIYA-YOGA REDUCES MISERY, AND LEADS
TOWARDS SAMADHI.

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33 minutes ago, MrDmitriiV said:

Why should I try Kriya Yoga instead of hundreds of other practices and different yogas?

You shouldn't. Practice whatever you like.

34 minutes ago, MrDmitriiV said:

You blindly follow his opinion.

Whooops! Mud contest gone bad! I didn't say Kriya works or not, or that I prefer it.

35 minutes ago, MrDmitriiV said:

what you are doing with it is using imagination for those chakras

So what?

---------------------------------------------

I'm getting outta here! Sorry for not blindly following your opinion. :D


 

 

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@MrDmitriiV nobody said you should go for Kriya Yoga and its the only way. Its also not something that replaces your meditation or self inquiry. Its just an additional technique, try it out and see for yourself or just ignore it. Leo just picked Kriya and tells us what his experiences were, so most people here will probably look into it too. Some might choose another school of yoga or dont start with it at all. Whats the big problem here really?

All of Yoga and Meditation basically boils down to quieting the mind. Either it does that for you or it doesnt.

Edited by MM1988

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You speak as if Leo was the one who invented Kriya Yoga and chakras and was trying to convince us that they exist and they work.

That's not the case. Leo just researched various yoga schools and found that Kriya is the most potent for enlightenment. There are tons of Kriya schools and books out there and he's not the first to talk about it. You're not "blindly believing Leo" if you start practicing it. All these books written by spiritual experts talk about chakras, kundalini and so on, it's not something Leo came up with in his videos or something. 

It's like with psychedelics, are you blindly following Leo if you use 5-meo instead of the other hundreds of psychedelics out there, or are you just using the fruits of his years of extensive research? Is he the only one talking about how 5-meo is the most potent psychedelic for enlightenment work? And will you try all other psychedelics just to make sure? 

About chakras: again, you believe you have internal organs because someone told you so, and you're blindly believing them because you haven't directly seen any of your organs any more than you've seen your chakras. 

You assume that it couldn't possibly be true that visualizing chakras could "make them work". But that's just an assumption. It could be that the imagination does much more than you think. For example, ever noticed that what you imagine can affect your body and emotions, even if what you are imagining isn't "actually out there"? The object of the imagination isn't "real", yet the emotions are. Visualization techniques are based on this and that's what makes them work. Chakras and visualizing chakras could work in the same way. 

You say you tried Kriya for some time and didn't see results. Well, could it be that you only start seeing results after many months or years of serious practice? After all, if you start working out to get to a certain fitness level, you have to blindly believe that you'll get there with months or years of practice, and you might not see any results reflected in your body for quite some time. You wouldn't start working out and then quit after a month just because you didn't get ripped in a month. Could it be that it works the same way with yoga? After all, just like there are people who work out for years and then report that it worked and they achieved their goals, in the same way there are people who practice Kriya for years and report amazing results. In both cases you have to blindly believe someone and trust that the technique will work before you see results on yourself. Of course with spiritual techniques it's a lot harder to see, but still there are a lot of reports and books by teachers talking about the incredible results that can be achieved with these practices. 

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@MrDmitriiV

See what it’s like to apply bigger picture & longer term thinking, and consider imagination could be more subtle, and more powerful than logic. 

BB363CD9-9088-4BC7-AD1B-246A386D3B3C.png

Also, consider doing anything creative, if you’re interested in realizing you are The Creator.


  Nonduality & Meditations         

Empty your head, fulfill your heart       

 

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8 hours ago, MrDmitriiV said:

@PrivetBut after doing it over a week, I realized that what you are doing with it is using imagination for those chakras. 

A week? Did you spend time learning the Kriya techniques that come prior to the chakra work? Or did you rush into the chakras? 

I’m two weeks into daily Kriya and still practicing the first few lessons as described in the book (that come before chakra). There is a lot of breathing and concentration practice prior to the chakra work. 

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11 hours ago, Natasha said:

@MrDmitriiV Everyone's path is different. Lots of people get awakened even without meditating much, practicing yoga, knowing about chakras, taking psychedelics, etc. Use other's teachings as suggestions, not requirements. I personally had the shift while self-inquiring guided by Leo in his Creating an Experience of No-self video and never had to do/try anything else after that. 

Are you still on this forum? xD .. It has been very long since I saw your posts..


Shanmugam

Subscribe to my Youtube channel http://bit.ly/shanmugamy for

videos regarding spiritual path, psychology, meditation, poetry and more...

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5 hours ago, see_on_see said:

About chakras: again, you believe you have internal organs because someone told you so, and you're blindly believing them because you haven't directly seen any of your organs any more than you've seen your chakras. 

You assume that it couldn't possibly be true that visualizing chakras could "make them work". But that's just an assumption. It could be that the imagination does much more than you think. For example, ever noticed that what you imagine can affect your body and emotions, even if what you are imagining isn't "actually out there"? The object of the imagination isn't "real", yet the emotions are. Visualization techniques are based on this and that's what makes them work. Chakras and visualizing chakras could work in the same way. 

This is the problem with using this kind of logic just because you heard it from Leo and following it blindly like a sheep. Just because you haven't SEEN something in person for yourself doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Does Australia not exist because you have personally never been there? But there is pictures of Australia and documentation about it from people who've lived there for hundreds of years. Same with your organs. You can feel your heartbeat, and when you cut someone open you can see their organs. 

Comparing the existence of organs and Chakras are completely different, because there is no evidence that Chakras exist as energy fields, and as you concede in your second paragraph, the only thing that makes them real to you is the continuous imagination that they are real. Well isn't that surprising! Look up the confirmation bias in psychology. If you continue to imagine something, day after day, it has an effect on your belief in that something. Think about it like affirmations, if you say your confident over and over, you will eventually start to feel more confident. Does it mean you're actually a confident person just by making yourself feel like you are? Probably not, but it will help you. This is the way I see Chakras, it's all basically made up in your mind but they do have real emotional effects on us because that's the power of the placebo effect. So does that make Chakras REAL because imagining in them has real effects on our body and mind? No! They are more so ideas you create, but if they help people, I don't see anything wrong with them.

 

Edited by FakeEnlightenment

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@MrDmitriiV

I appreciate the warning, but this forum is a blind-faith-free-zone.

 

As for the chakras, I didn't believe it either at first. This was something that was slowly revealed to me through a couple years of yoga practice.

Ultimately I think if you're not into Kriyas then find something else. A lengthy theoretical debate such as this is a waste of time.

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2 hours ago, FakeEnlightenment said:

This is the problem with using this kind of logic just because you heard it from Leo and following it blindly like a sheep. Just because you haven't SEEN something in person for yourself doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Does Australia not exist because you have personally never been there? But there is pictures of Australia and documentation about it from people who've lived there for hundreds of years. Same with your organs. You can feel your heartbeat, and when you cut someone open you can see their organs. 

Plenty of documentation about chakras as well. The logic is not that because you haven't seen organs, they don't exist. The logic is that you don't have any more direct experience about organs than you have about chakras, yet you still believe in organs and not in chakras, just because you blindly believe your materialist paradigm. The fact that Leo said this and I'm repeating it, making it seem "I'm blindly following him" on this, doesn't mean I couldn't have derived this truth for myself, and it doesn't make it any less true anyway. It's up to you in the end. 

2 hours ago, FakeEnlightenment said:

Comparing the existence of organs and Chakras are completely different, because there is no evidence that Chakras exist as energy fields, and as you concede in your second paragraph, the only thing that makes them real to you is the continuous imagination that they are real. Well isn't that surprising! Look up the confirmation bias in psychology. If you continue to imagine something, day after day, it has an effect on your belief in that something. Think about it like affirmations, if you say your confident over and over, you will eventually start to feel more confident. Does it mean you're actually a confident person just by making yourself feel like you are? Probably not, but it will help you. This is the way I see Chakras, it's all basically made up in your mind but they do have real emotional effects on us because that's the power of the placebo effect. So does that make Chakras REAL because imagining in them has real effects on our body and mind? No! They are more so ideas you create, but if they help people, I don't see anything wrong with them.

I don't know if chakras work purely by imagining them. There's probably much more to it. My point was that imagination and visualization are more powerful than you think, and just because "confirmation bias" and "placebo effect", doesn't mean they aren't real and they don't work.

For example, visualizations and affirmations DO work. "Does it mean you're actually a confident person just by making yourself feel like you are?" Hell yes it does! That's exactly how reprogramming the subconscious mind works. There isn't another way to start feeling confident about something but to start BELIEVING you can do it and that you CAN be confident about it. And as you believe it, so does your reality change. 

Your materialist paradigm is a placebo effect too, you get that? And guess what, THAT works too, in exactly the same way!

This whole thread is an exercise in confirmation bias, just like all threads that try to debunk spiritual stuff based on the assumption of a materialistic paradigm. The problem as always, is that because the thing you're trying to debunk doesn't fit the paradigm, then you don't even try it, and there you have your confirmation bias, but the actually dangerous kind of confirmation bias, because you closed your minds off to the actual practice with no possibility of ever considering it could work. 

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Gentlemen, please!

What we need here is for Leo to make a video on chakras and Kriya Yoga. I for one am skeptic too but I wish to know more.

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