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@Pouya I think you make an important point about newbies skipping to advanced points. Maybe the actualized videos should be set into various playlists from the least advanced to the most advanced. If a newbie jumps to the most recent videos there is not a chance that they will understand it. If there were an order set for watching the videos, actualized could minimize the people taking these teachings the wrong way. Maybe there should be a playlist for the most beginner friendly material. The dangers of spiritual work should be at the beginning of the advanced playlists. This will serve as a warning for those who don't know what they are getting themselves into. The beginning of advanced teachings will make it clear not to harm the body or commit suicide.

Although this site has helped me to grow a lot, there are some problems. 1. The spiritual forum has too many threads which entertain the idea of suicide as a valid spiritual practice. There needs to be a pinned thread at the top to address the idea of suicide for spiritual reasons. If there continues to be discussions about suicide and spirituality on this forum it will muddy the waters and some people will fall into the trap of harming the body. I discussed suicide with somebody in this forum before. He mentioned that he did not fear death. If I did not correct what he was thinking, then he might have killed himself. Moderators should take these types of discussions more seriously and should lock threads that discuss validity in suicide as a spiritual method. These kinds of discussions should not be happening in the forum. It needs to be dismissed immediately in a pinned thread at the top of the forum. 2. Actualized.org cannot exempt itself from the issue of mental illness. Given this YouTube format with people all over the world watching, inevitably people with sick minds will watch and corrupt the teachings. In case somebody with a mental illness comes across this channel, there needs to be a greater emphasis on seeking professional help if there are any thoughts of harming yourself or someone else. This can be helpful for people who have serious trauma bubbling up during meditation. The assumption of this channel is that the listeners are mentally stable, but this assumption is clearly wrong. A person who needs mental help does not want to admit that they need it. They will be prone to the self deception that they are healthy enough to watch these videos. One thing I can compliment you for so far is that you made the description more robust in the videos. It is critical that mention the possibility of worsening serious mental conditions by misusing these teachings. 3. The most practical videos for me were emotional mastery. This includes childhood vows, anger, depression, envy, and many more. I shared these videos with my brother when he had some emotional problems. He asked "why don't they teach this school?". My brother and I both found it extremely helpful. If you want to help people ease the intensity of ego backlash and psychological trauma, you should make more videos on practical psychology. If you over emphasize advanced spiritual topics, many newbies might skip the necessary foundation set in older videos years ago. I want to thank you for your work so far. You helped me to see the value in personal development and spirituality.

I'm trying to take a break from the whole situation right now. The Suicide and the aftermath have taken a toll on me. I wish I never read that thread and never watched that video. It's cursed. My haunted spirit is never going to forget this nightmare. I felt on the verge of dying I felt hyper emotional. This wasn't okay by any means. I'll consciously stay away from anything that makes me emotional in this place..

This is super interesting and captivating, lots of valuable comments in this thread. I'm deeply sorry for the family of the deceased! Also, sending Leo some basic human compassion - he seems to be handling the fallout and evaluating responsibility just fine, but I imagine it must be emotionally difficult too. I'm one of the people coming into spirituality from a place of depression (though not suicidal level) and anxiety, my core interests in personal development have been emotions, relationships, trauma healing. I'm greatful to Leo for introducing me to some philosophy and spirituality too . My progress is slow, I've been following since forever (2016), and awakening is still over my head. It would never occur to me to take Leo's teachings as promoting suicide. For me, they are fascinating! But I understand that spiritual concepts and experience can lead to confusion in some people. I've never personally experienced much of it just from listening - ideas on their own aren't very threatening to me. Experience is a different thing and can be deeply unsettling. In terms of dealing with the dangers of spiritual teachings, I'm happy and grateful to have people around me who have been part of i.e. the holotropic breathwork community. They are my guide as much as Leo is, and they help me balance some of Leo's bias. As for grievances, I've expressed my opinion on several topics in the past - the old relationship videos, the pick-up line of the forum, the repeated bashing of science and religion (which I'm sick and tired off) and other unnecessary repetition, the political commentary. Some videos on Leo's side-interests or newly developing interests just don't have the quality of his core spiritual and philosophical content. (On the other hand, from my area of expertise, I very much appreciate the quantum mechanics series! ) I've also recently expressed concern whether Leo has enough feedback from (or rather, shared investigation with) high-quality intellectuals in the social/politics domain, and I've been called insane Leo, this may be a false impression, but it often seems from your videos like you don't talk about your insights and your journey to anyone at all. I'm just always so happy to hear you mention being at a retreat and talking to the teacher, or similar. We may be all imaginary or all one (I don't know what I'm talking about here), but in the relative domain, people need to relate to people as close to their level as possible. I don't think the forum is enough feedback for you. If there was some distinction between content for newbies and content for long-time viewers in the future, I would appreciate it. Lastly, I'm organizing a students' personal development group at my faculty. I've struggled with my conscience on whether I can recommend actualized.org as a source of advice. So far I decided I can't. I'm not actually sure it would have a net positive effect on the students' lives if they started to dive into spirituality and psychedelics. It's a hard decision though, between authenticity and caution (coupled with fear).

This is a very relevant topic given the recent events. In the future I expect to see a video on suicide and this topic should be included. Because of the large audience, actualized will run into people with mental disorders and they can very easily make spiritual justifications for doing foolish things. If you want to use spiritual motivations to get these people to do something helpful, then I have a suggestion. I sought psychological help for spiritual reasons. The idea was that psycho therapy can dissolve unhealthy aspects of the ego, thus making me more effective at spirituality. It made me able to deal with intense episodes of depression, suicidal thoughts, and ego backlash. You should mention that ego does not want to admit when it needs psychological help, and this is selfishness. If you are interested in spirituality, but you are having destructive thoughts, then you should seek professional help to stop you from harming yourself or somebody else. In the long run you will be far more effective in spirituality, personal development, and emotional mastery if you address this psychological trauma.

Btw, thank you for reminding the suicide thread that his family is reading this and also later in the feedback thread for holding Leo to a standard. I couldn't agree more. The more I learn about communication, intuition and relating the more I realize that I am still a child in that area. And it feels good to explore that more deeply. Was your voice shunned? I haven't read from anybody saying something like that about your post of holding Leo to a higher standard.

Good to hear you address some of these issues, specifically suicide. i would be willing to bet that more people than we might think watch watch your videos or visit your forum have battled with these types of thoughts at some point for a variety of different reasons. The nihilism dip is certainly something I've experienced, and not just once either. It's not always about ideas or beliefs. Health fades, careers end, purpose disappears, meaning evaporates, loved ones pass away, pets die, we can find ourselves completely alone in the world regardless of whatever life we had created for ourselves, sometimes, for some. Others seek so obsessively, the dizzying heights of "total" enlightenment that they dive headfirst into the deep abyss of insanity, quite easily actually. Like you said, reality just melts, don't know which way is up. It could happen to any of us given the right set of circumstances. Perspective is a tricky thing. I heard you mention your gut problems and I was moved to hear you talk about your struggle, one that I share, and one that I can tell you from personal experience can get so bad that it can affect much more than consciousness. Everything flows. I look forward to the video you said you were going to do later specifically about suicide. Hope it comes from that place of Absolute Love.

In my opinion there should be a rule in the Forum rules on what talk is allowed with regards to suicide. I would advocate banning all suicide talk. But, certainly using spiritual teachings to argue that suicide is reasonable or valid shouldn’t be allowed. In all cases, they are misinterpreting spiritual teaching meant for advanced practitioners and are 100% wrong. The purpose is to wake up and live a happy life, not to kill yourself.

I don't think it is correct to label "Jumping from the bridge to end your human existence and awaken from the imaginary dream of life" as stupid. If doing that really awakens you and be with God, it means it is valid. Sadhguru even recommended to his followers to go to a forest, and sit under a tree until they die of hunger as an alternative to MahaSamadhi. He knows most of his followers can't attain MahaSamadhi, so he recommended the alternative as a valid way to awaken from the dream. He did not encourage it. But at least he recommended it (as something valid) if his followers really want to have the "ultimate awakening". The claim everything in the material world (children, wife, friends, Leo, etc.) is imaginary also solidifies suicide as valid. The only mistake Sunny committed was he did it not because he was conscious or experienced it to be true, but he just believed it to be true. He might had suffered in a serious but hidden way. And the claim death is awakening from the imaginary dream world and union with God or Infinite Love sounds very beautiful, he was tempted to jump from the bridge as a form of spiritual bypassing. Suppose these crazy but beautiful claims are true, and murdering yourself (suicide) takes you there. I don't think that is the way to go. It is valid (not stupid), but not the best. That is what needs to be clarified. And that is what should Leo have clarified 2 or 3 years ago. I just saw his most recent video. And finally, he clarified it is best NOT TO SKIP LIFE via suicide because life is supposed to be mastered and enjoyed. That mastery and enjoyment of life despite its difficulties and challenges is a serious form of spirituality. This form of clarification is a better safeguard than disclaimers because clarifications in the videos are more impactful. I think Leo also needs to clarify whether he is still pursuing his ultimate purpose which is Liberation (the one he posted on his blog in 2019). If he is still going at it, he needs to clarify what exactly it means. Does it mean to be like Jesus? As in going out there, teaching and selflessly helping people, curing them from diseases, and feeding the hungry? Or does it mean being liberated but just continuing teaching on YouTube (which is what he has been doing)? I also notice Leo responds to posts with low to average quality as long as he perceives doing so is safe. And he doesn't respond to high quality posts if he perceives doing so is threatening. This behavior is repulsive. @Scholar's posts surely have some "substance" which are worth pondering. But Leo rarely replies to them (if he even does). It seems Leo is threatened by people who have intelligence and wisdom, but don't kiss his ass. This is a big weakness (and repulsive). I hope @Leo Gura will embody strength, bravery, integrity, and compassion in the future.

After which I saw that Leo had opened a new thread. In which he expressed his desire that people who don't get along or are chronic naysayers should leave. I immediately knew something was up. Because such a thread was never made before. I immediately felt like the whole forum was in danger. What had happened? A place that was helping people was suddenly facing a huge threat from the outside. Obviously I knew what that threat was. It was Adeptus video We on the forum give attention to people who say that they are suicidal. We tend to talk them down from suicide. What happened this time? Most people had zero clue that the guy Soonhei was planning to Suicide. It all happened so quick. There was no way anyone could have helped him if they didn't know he was going to do the unthinkable. So there was a collective feeling of survivor's guilt and regret over not being able to save his life At the same time the grief of his death. It was all too much And in this vulnerable moment, at the most horrible timing comes a video that holds the entire community responsible for the Suicide. It felt like a giant stab. It felt like immense exploitation of a vulnerable situation. People who are completely innocent. Who had chats with Soonhei. Who never meant any harm. Who wanted only good for him. Suddenly having to face the reality that they were communicating with someone who was suddenly going to disappear from the planet. This must have been hard that you talk to someone happily and next day they are gone forever. This must have been traumatizing . And on top dealing with the blame that you contributed to his suicide. I saw it as double trauma. I also felt like making a video soon after the news of the suicide broke out was very uncharitable and exploitative. Maybe he could have waited a few days before making the video till things calmed down on the forum. So all of this precipitated into me being extremely triggered by the video being released at such a vulnerable point in time . So I went to the Adeptus channel and told him that his video was pure slander. Instead of giving a fair argument or feedback I felt gaslighted and attacked for being a forum member and calling the forum a cult. When I said it's not a cult, things escalated quickly into a long back and forth of attacks. Finally I left his comment section. But yea there was sufficient ground for a trigger.

Some of the things that I want to get off my chest. My fight with Adeptus. What triggered it ? What caused it ? First of all, I was in a very vulnerable emotional and wounded state at the time of talking to him. I had learned about the forum suicide and I was very depressed. I contemplated it throughout the night and didn't sleep very well. When I woke up I saw the thread and Leo's comment on the video.. Something told me about the nature of the comment that Leo was very angry. He immediately locked the thread just when I was commenting. I knew something was not right. I had watched the Adeptus video and I was very pissed off by how claims were made that the forum members were responsible for the suicide.

I remember wanting to kill myself one day. I was trying to sleep, but couldn't. I wasn't making progress, nor making money, then this idea pops up in my head: "I'M GOING TO KILL MYSELF". It burst out of nowhere. It wasn't the first time that I had suicidal thoughts, but it was a bit stronger than usual (I never had strong suicidal thoughts in my life, but just small ones). I got out of my bed and felt the need to kill myself, to jump out of the stairs, or to take a knife. It was my ego coming back in this difficult situation, it wanted to kill itself because it was suffering too much. But the ego is inauthentic, the ego is not the true self who wants to be delighted from living an authentic life. I came back to reason a few seconds later, I thought: "No, no, no, no, no, no. Something is wrong here. This is fine, this is fine, this is life, I want to live a deep conscious life. I want to be happy.". I took some deep breaths and went back to bed to sleep. The recent suicide from a member of this community made me think of this.

That sounds like someone describing factory conditions and not liking it. Also, it's a resistance to diligence as we see with 2 of its founding fathers committing suicide over being forced into law school.

Hello Everyone! I am feeling really sad to share this news that Our Brother, Our Friend "Soonhei" (Member of this community) killed himself to experience the conscious death. SoonHei was my best and only friend. :-( He was very happy and have no issues in his life. These days he was contemplating death and dreams a lot and ultimately he decided to try conscious death and killed himself by jumping off from the Bridge in Canada by 3rd May 2021. Before killing himself he was talking to me on WhatsApp and he was really happy and laughing on different matters as well. SoonHei & Me had a long discussion about conscious death, the afterlife, and lucid dreaming the day he committed suicide. Few minutes before he jumped from the bridge to commit suicide he sent me the following message: "I leave you my dream. You already know, meet you in the beyond." We can not imagine or understand how and why he can take that kind of decision. He left his family behind including a wife, and 2 little cute kids. May God grant him the success he was trying to achieve :-( According to me, it's the wrong decision he took. What do you think? Does Committing suicide have any link with spirituality? Is this possible to liberate oneself from the cycle of birth and death ultimately and merge into consciousness by committing suicide after gaining enlightenment? Waiting for other's views. Thanks

I did not and am not saying you or anyone edited his comment upon logging in some days after his passing. I am saying the comment I replied to was edited after I replied. If he did this, I do not know why he would have anymore than I know why he took his life. I looked into this and unfortunately a digital history or record of edited private messages is not available. Again I am very sorry for your loss. It is a tragic and devastating event and my mind and heart are with you and your family. It is in these precise ways that communication by text such as these threads online is very limiting and leaves much room for miscommunication and misunderstanding. I apologize that this thread is locked, and that I am able to comment and you are not. If you ever want to talk through skype or zoom I welcome that and you can reach me anytime through my website email. The link is below each post. @Muhammad Jawad I am very sorry for your loss as well, and I apologize that I did not say this already. My best friend through my teenage years and on, from whom I learned to play guitar from and had music and just about everything in common with committed suicide as well and it was difficult to bear. I wish you and your family peace as well.

First of all, I think you've handled the situation well, I think it's good to address these issues and not shy away from recent events by making a video I ofc don't think you condone suicide, or that anyone on this forum is responsible for the man's death. that said, I do think the forum would be better if everyone were to speak in riddles less and celebrate the beauty of human existence more as for the quote above, it's a weird one because I love what you teach and agree with a lot of the things, especially regarding psychology, politics and personal development, but spirituality too mostly. however, I still question some statements you make like saying you've reached 'Complete God-Realization', with the issue purely being the use of the word 'Complete', and not you saying you're God-realized, as: 1.) To me, that would mean existing as pure infinite consciousness, not as Leo experiencing pure infinite consciousness from Leo's mind inside Leo's body, and so you haven't actually become infinite consciousness outside of the mind or body 2.) To me, 'complete God realization' would mean to know what is unknowable to humans, like where existence came from, how existence came to be, things that we can only speculate on as humans, but that actual infinite consciousness would have experienced 3.) you've said the same exact words during previous awakenings, when at the time they were your deepest ones, only to then say the previous time wasn't 'complete God realization' after a deeper awakening, and that this new time is. and no this isn't me not getting that each awakening was complete in and of itself, I get that, that's not what I'm denying, I'm denying that you are completely god-realized because you imo you can't possibly know whether or not you could become more 'God-realized' or not, and therefore imo can never you're 'completely' God-realized' , especially when claiming so as a human 3.) you claim you achieved this after 130-ish awakenings, but don't know what'd happened after, say, a 1000 4.) you've said many times that there are infinite degrees of awakening, so how'd you know you've reached the end 5.) as I've said before, think of all the psychedelics that could exist throughout the universe that could enable deeper God-Realization, or all the other species that could be more evolved at experiencing consciousness compared to us 6.) you always return to you after experiencing God, whereas imo to reach 'Complete God-realization' would be to be infinite for infinity I also have a bit of an issue with how questions are avoided sometimes, like in this image, rather than acknowledging the possibilty of other psychedelics in space, or even the existence of space itself, you just said 'all of that is imaginary', which whilst I obviously know you're getting at the fact we imagine space as a thought when we think of it, to me that's a fruitless statement in the context of that conversation, as I could say the 5-meo is imaginary, or the supermarket is imaginary, but you still use 5-meo to experience God, and the supermarket to eat, just like space is still there when you call it imaginary, and so it's really saying nothing when you say that and is just an easy way to avoid objections lastly, I have a slight hesitance towards how people so dogmatically claim that 'all that exists is what the mind imagines/is conscious of', when for the mind to be able to imagine in the first place it must be supported by a beating heart, and to say the heart doesn't exist because the mind isn't imagining it seems counterproductive, as the mind can not imagine without the beating heart, and is to be dogmatic about the word exist, which means 'to live, to have reality', which you could say the heart does through itself. to say it doesn't exist, or the universe doesn't exist, when they're not being imagined, is to ignore the fact that all imagination is happening within the universe, which is non-negotiable and which we're always rooted too, so it just seems problematic to make claims so dogmatically just because we're constructing our own subjective experiences. imo just because the mind is constructing what it's experiencing doesn't mean the other things in the universe that the mind isn't experiencing are non-existent. I think a better way to phrase 'all that exists is what the mind imagines/is conscious of' would be 'all one experiences is what the mind imagines/is conscious of' this may seem like a lot, but really it's a few objections I'm sceptical of, in comparison to hundreds of things I do agree with

It has nothing to do with an ad-hominem. I issue this criticism of clickbaiting with newspaper all the time, but in this case the information comes from a person. What can I do if the dynamic is the same but there is not a team of journalist but a single person behind? All actors have an agenda. He's got all the right to create content and express himself. I have no problem with that. What I am taking issue more is to come here on this thread and complain that some people got triggered by his videos, when the very nature of the subject is emotional. Simple cause and effect. On this specific point, he's not having my sympathy, nor by calling this effect "cult like". And this misrepresentation is quite problematic. Even though, I agree that some individuals who are using the forum on the regular have been particularly problematic. Also, I've said that it was a 1-in-2. I don't say that growing his community is the sole concern, but my personal take on that matter is that Soonhei's suicide is a private event and not a public one that should be discussed on the public sphere, in order to respect his family. If I had my own channel, I would have chosen not to discuss it. It's the first time that I issue any type of criticism over critiscism of Actualized.org. By no mean would I not want it to stop. But anything which is putting fuel or potentially firing up this story pandering on the cult narrative or Actualized.org responsability from far or close will not have my support.

By posting a video on youtube, don't you wish for views? Beside, I'm not saying that this is his sole motivation. I'm just saying that its guaranteed attention so it is at best a two-in-one. And of course, this "story" is particularly juicy material in terms of eyeballs. He's got a long story of poking actualized.org and he knew very well that there would be a reaction. Leo's got a million subscribers. That's all I am saying. Also, I'm not at ease with anyone who co-opt a suicide and feels appropriate to give an opinion on the matter on a freaking youtube channel, when after all he doesn't have all the elements to judge. But that's just me. That's why I called that move opportunistic, but you're free to disagree.

As I've recently read Robert Monroe's books and those of his student Bruce Moen, they repeat at the beginning of the books the affirmation they use before out of body exploration. What may be helpful is something similar to start videos and articles: A guiding affirmation, much like "setting your intention" at the beginning of a yoga class, hyping youself up before going to an important meeting, or a mantra before bed to train for lucid dreaming. Restating some of the basics, without sounding like a cultic mantra. Things Leo reiterates frequently like Although material reality including the body is imagined by consciousness, we never intend to cause physical harm to it. In fact, maintaining your health within the life-dream is fundamental to spiritual growth.... It is the false self that dies when the ego falls away, you need not fear your body harmed by transcending the ego identity, nor will suicide give you a shortcut to enlightenment.... I'll also mention that these books mentioned really connect a lot of things that Leo never covers, or dismisses as "new-age." A few months ago I got curious about all of the in-betweens, the infinite complexity between baseline human consciousness and infinite God-consciousness. Having a bit of direct experience with this and reading the direct experiences of others paints a much more complete picture of reality, rather than just thinking when everyone dies they have a full awakening, remember that they're God and that's it. In this sense, the psychadelics, dream hacking/astral projection and meditative states that take people into these other in-between consciousness levels are beneficial, since then one would not fall into the trap of thinking suicide is a guaranteed direct shortcut to full enlightenment. Even just learning about them as a complement to Actualized.org/other enlightenment teachings would probably dispell that myth.

The mind will rationalize whatever it wants to do. It will also conveniently neglect things it even knows. Maybe the 10 Commandments say that killing is wrong. But a foolish person will reason like this: "Killing babies is wrong. So I'm going to go kill that abortion doctor who kills babies because he is breaking the 10 Commandments!" And there will be no recognition at all that killing the doctor also breaks the 10 Commandments. You assume the mind is going to be very rigorous and consider all sides of the issue but it will not. It will ignore obvious warnings and prohibitions. You honestly think that SoonHei never heard it said that Truth is NOW, the present moment? He obviously knew what. His sister told me that he Eckhart Tolle quotes on his dreamboard and talked about many spiritual authors he's read. So obviously he knew that NOW is the place to be. But he ignored that for some fantasy of a future Mahasamadhi heaven. When the mind gets stuck on some fantasy, it's logic becomes one-sided and anything can be justified in that way. You think suicide bombers don't know it's wrong to kill civilians? They know it. But they get trapped in some other fantasy and ignore basic common sense.

1:04:00 you talk about Christianity , and how we can make anything dangerous when we misunderstand etc.. But in Christianity in particular there is a safeguard rail. It is very commonly known for Christians that if you commit suicide you won't be allowed in the kingdom of Heaven. Basically exactly what SoonHei was looking for with that jump - to find/ be in heaven itself. If he believed a little bit that what Christianity is saying is relevant, it would have challenged his idea that jumping would get him quick access to that. He would probably be here if he had more of a Christian background and had this doubt about the suicide being "Good", because there is "nowhere else to go". About "Repent and you will be allowed in Heaven" being like a visa to do anything, it might appear like that, sure.. But I have had an insight about that one... How would one feel, when in Heaven, knowing that they don't deserve it... It would not be a good feeling and it would make heaven into a kind of hell, where you are like an undeserving dirt. I want to deserve it even a little bit, and using Jesus' sacrifice as a visa to do anything is not part of that. I know I do sin and I have a sinful nature, but I am not actively trying to be that. I attempt my best, but I am not going to be perfect in this human form. All that is wanted of us is to do our best. Our best is definitely not to say "Well since Jesus died for my sins, lets go and sin for the lols" This is not a critique on your teachings, it is a critique of your critique of Christianity.

i dont think that reincarnation is even matters , suicide is just not a conscious thing, it is animalistic fueled by anger and fear

In mahasamadhi you enter Nirvana. In suicide you reincarnate in a worse place then before. You go to hell basicly. At least that what people say.

in mahasamdhi it is a way to fullfill your destany and be complete ,physical suicide is killing yourself becasue you try to eliminate some damge, you are not complete in physical suicide , you do this because you think your life is so fucked up that your rather die, in mahasamdhi you dont think , you just be

I thought that the video was about the dangers of misapplying spiritual teaching, which it is as I am currently listening to it. The introduction part was kind of scary, after hearing someone in the forum committed suicide.