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I made somewhat a article of this. I'm no expert in these fields so i can be wrong. Hope this helps. The new age movement was created out of positive intent. Its practices however are of a mixed nature. As some practices are magical in their core. What is magic? It's the application of mental and spiritual forces. White magic: Definite use and application of spiritual force solely for the blessing and benefit of others. Example: mass meditation like a crowd visualizes peace, prosperity and oneness for earth and its inhabitants. Black magic: Definite use and application of spiritual force with a selfish or material aim. Example: sexual tantra. It is the use of sexual energy to abtain a pleasurable experience. Sexual magic is black magic. (voodoo, witch potion and mummy curse are just nonsense) Another example is the Law of attraction practices. Although this is a mix in my opinion. It depends as how someone uses it. I'm a learner of the law of attraction myself. I think Teal Swan and Bentinho massaro have good teachings about it. But of course one has to find out oneself of what black or white magic is and not read what others say. Some say it is using it to hurt others or help other. But the definition above is what some occultists and theosophy believe so it fits in this article. Visualizing and attracting a house or car to oneself is a good definition of "application of spiritual force with a selfish or material aim" LaVey's Satanism encouraging the practice of magic to aid one's selfish ends. In The Satanic Bible, LaVey described three types of ritual in his religion: sex rituals designed to attract the desired romantic or sexual partner, compassionate rituals with the intent of helping people (including oneself), and destructive magic which seeks to do harm to others. Both sexual tantra and law of attraction is practiced in the new age movement and in Lavey satanism. No wonder that Anton Lavey says that the new agers practice "satans" work. They practice the same. Although new agers deny that there is anything bad about it. But not all in the new age movement practising this. And there is no reason to call them satanists either. Original Theosophy and other spiritual communities are against these practices. "Whenever any spiritual aspirant was found to be attempting to use spiritual or mental power to attract wealth, possessions, or material and personal fulfillment, he was expelled in disgrace from the temple, the monastery, the ashram, or the spiritual community." quote from this article: https://blavatskytheosophy.com/the-whitewashing-of-black-magic/ Although the new age movement may have come from the theosophical society. Its founders did not practice or advocate many things that the new age movement does. As for Aleister crowley. He became unstable of the spiritual influence he received from his occult practice and could not synthesise his spiritual attainment and harmonize his desires and became somewhat unhealthy. He had drug addictions. He tried to fix himself with heroin which made him even more crazy and unstable. One can question his actions and practices as many of them are probably "dark" although he himself i think was positive. I have not studied him so i cannot really give a good statement. If you trust channelings, then here is maybe a good description: https://www.lawofone.info/results.php?c=People&su=Aleister+Crowley#Aleister+Crowley If there is a dark occultist one can pinpoint on, then it is Michael Aquino of the temple of set. Theosophical movement is of course a mixture. In the time when the founders where alive, that is Helena blavatsky and William. q. judge. That society was a huge positive influence as they where some of the first that brought Eastern esotericism and spirituality (like karma and reincarnation) to Western culture. Things did not go that well for the society after their death. Especially when Charles leadbeater and Alice Bailey entered the game. Leadbeater a Bishop that tried to Catholicise Theosophy and destroyed the movement, or at least was the cause of splitting it in 4 different societies: Point loma, Pasadena, Ult and Adyar. Bailey put blavatskies original books out of print for decades and rewrote them in a christian friendly like style. Hence why their teaching are different. The teachings that were at the time of blavatsky are called theosophy. Leadbeater/baileys teachings are called pseudo-theosophy. Bailey was influenced by a Eastern black magician that she called her guru. The intent was to destroy the society from within through her. And Leadbeater did not give a shit appearantly. As they say he was a "paedophile, sex criminal against young boys, a chronic liar, fraud, and even a black magician" . Poor Krishnamurti. Although I still believe that it is not all black or white for these two, they probably in the grey (closer to the black maybe). I think the new age movement came out of pseudo theosophy and people don't know the difference between the original and the other. That's why blavatsky gets all the blame. I think that this question comes from a edge of wonder video titled law of attraction. Much of the info in the video about blavatsky came from a video on YouTube of Hans wilhelms Lucifer doctrine that they show a bit at the end. And Hans willhelm took the info about blavatsky from some article on the Internet. And they took out of their ass. Some better research could be good as to not point at the wrong people. But i still like the edge of wonder videos. Even if they believe that these people are "satanists" one cannot deny them of their individual opinion as i have mine.

I agree that everything is already said and done. All stories and all maya are already over in the end. Everything ends in peace. However, why do you want to keep going in the strangeloop (reincarnation)? That's why we have choice. Do you want to do well in this story?

I’m sorry but I have to let this out. I would like to believe that reincarnation is real, it’s an interesting idea to imagine that. But I’m just a piece of meat. When I die, I’m done. Why do we think we are a human beings? We are persons right now, but when we die that’s it we are no more. I do think we were just a happening in this existence/universe, and that’s okay with me. We are humans right now but that’s going to end. What? An ant will keep reincarnating as an ant? We only have this chance and that’s it, and it doesn’t matter. That ant will only be that ant, and when he dies he’s done. We are nothing, we’re not important. I think we think we are very important, many lives... this and that, etc. An ant is an ant only once. A human is only a human once. Or, please someone explain to me, are we going to be humans forever, reincarnation after reincarnation? Or were we an ant before, and evolved, nah, don’t think so. We’re so not important. No one has comeback from death and returned to tell you that life goes on. If they did they imagined it. But then, this:

@Maya_0 I didn't know that. So in reality it's not even actually reincarnation/incarnation? A new word is needed now. Infinite being through everything!

You're thinking about reincarnation the wrong way. You can't really think about it either, by the way, because the mind will start to pick out "individual people" and imagine that there is something tucked away within each individual that will find itself in another body given time. That is all misconception. Your question is fundamentally unanswerable because you have too many assumptions about the way reincarnation works, none of which are True.

(On Reincarnation / Nonduality)

Reincarnation implies that you have had past lives.

What is the difference between past lives and reincarnation?

If you assume that you were born and that you will die, then yes, there is reincarnation. If you engage in self-inquiry, you might not find that you were ever born in the first place.

What’s your view on reincarnation? Is it possible that I will be born as a zebra or another animal after I leave my physical body?

How come our default is unconsciousness? How can you tell which teachers speak the dharma vs bullshit? How can you believe in something like reincarnation with absolutely zero proof? Why should I start the journey when I know it’s insanely difficult and only a fraction of a minority actually reach the levels you discuss?

Yep. “My life” equaled that. Only the absolute would do. Hearing you loud and clear. I did the accumulation like a Boss, and gave literally all of it away. It’s not missed a bit. Let’s talk about your plan. I died for this. Please dispel my typical bullshit and jokes, that isn’t one. (It is too though?) Only you can awaken, everyone else already is. Chance is a farce. I’ve mentioned this lightly as it’s arrogant af sounding in type, but “I” meet with people, we talk, God creates, we create, ‘they’ awaken. If I am useful in your pursuit, use me. For me, you were always awake, and I was the last one to get the joke. Reincarnation, lifetimes, etc - tricky as they are both and neither the setup & punchline. Infinite Humor. Perpetual mindfuck. Perfection. “It” can’t be “gotten”, it’s not a content of thoughts, nor the thinker of thoughts, “it” is appearing as thoughts, and believing them, or recognizing “it” in them, as them. It’s entirely perfect, convincing itself it is otherwise - that that is “reality”. Perfect. The kick in the balls, is, it is you. Not “Absolute God You” - just you. Imagine a God of infinite magnitude and power, with the innocence & self awareness, yet thoughtlessness of a 1 year old. Now be mindful and honest within - how “grown up are you, really? What meaning has that? yours Make a distinction as such, create it, without identification, there is only absolute which appears to include a “distinction” and an “identification”... unconditional is as is, eternally, and remains undisturbed, un-contracted, uncontrolled, un-contorted, “delusion free”, indeed well known. Why, who, how? Me. Make the distinctions, with identification, and the Truth remains inconceivable, ungraspable, heartbreakingly just slightly out of reach - “physical”. Why, who, how? Me. You draw out the absolute mindfuck of direct experience. Once, age 16, a coked up, drunk 25 year old guy mistook me for someone else. Apparently, someone who did him very wrong. Long story short, couple weeks in the hospital, face stitched back together, and these days the only remnant of it is some admittedly rough sinus / ear issues, a handful of scars, and a God-load of compassion, appreciation & love for him. The moral of that story, in my direct experience - I do not know what anyone is thinking, feeling, nor experiencing - when I believe I do, vicariously but also truly not - “I” suffers. You might call this a great paradox of direct experience vs suffering. Nothing is what it seems, right down to the very last atom. Such is, with all things, unveiled “typically”, as self, nature, animals, people, object. The depth of our (“my”) overlays upon it are simply “deeper” than you’ve yet “been” / unconverted / inspected. Put incredibly short - kid asks his dad how God could allow Hitler, while his rated M video game is paused. Even more simply - you don’t know what death is. What you’re ‘missing’ is Awakening is total. There is no relative. This is something unlike all other thoughts, concepts, ideas. It is not conceivable, only “experienceable”, as what is without experience, and there is not then again, because there never was, experience. It’s “paper thin”, so much so there’s no paper at all, and one is basically forced to point with a term like paper thin. If “it” seems huge, direct experience brings it down to eye level, if properly inspected. Nice...tricky though...the statement “ignorance is bliss” is likely not made from the one in ignorance. We tend to suffer, under the assumption it’s part of physical reality, individuality. Separate self = suffering. In ‘personal sense’, I did not find it blissful, there was no foundation of sense at all. Now ‘i’ am entirely ignorant, and it is indeed bliss. Then be effortless, without friction and confusion. Let all go. Can’t? Inspect that can’t. Inspect “the one” who can’t. Something to ponder, awakening that which is unlimited, is not done via limits. Create your awakening, drop any limitation on formulating such a plan. It is worth everything.

OK, I wonder if any of you guys have gone through the website, "Unveiled Secrets and Messengers of light". Most of what they state resonates with me but there is a particular paragraph which has been intellectually disturbing me for a long time and I have not yet reached the required state of enlightenment to verify this statement. The webpage is here: https://unveiledsecretsandmessagesoflight.blogspot.com/2009/10/johnakan-ur-el-17mar2000.html Please allow me to quote the relevant paragraph in this topic: "Interlocutor: Another of the questions I have scheduled, is if the human spirit evolves from the unicellular animals, going through the mineral Kingdom, then the vegetable Kingdom, later on the animal Kingdom and finally as a man. Johnakan Ur-El: The spirits embody in the whole matter of the universe, but - and this is important to clarify it-, “transmigration of the soul” doesn't exist. What exists is reincarnation of the soul, a completely different concept. There is a tendency of Buddhism . And I spoke personally to my brother Siddhartha. which was misinterpreted. Interlocutor: Even at the present time? Johnakan Ur-El: Correct, the Tibetan Buddhism even at the present time keeps using it mistakenly. The animal spirit evolves as animal. The vegetable spirit evolves as vegetable. The mineral spirit evolves as mineral. The human spirit evolves as human. That is, it doesn't change, for example, from a goat to a man. This sounds beautiful because there is a fable that tells the story of how a goat becomes man, but reality is different. The transmigration of the souls doesn’t exist, I repeat, but the reincarnation of the souls. Interlocutor: The human spirit never embodied in a unicellular being , for example. Johnakan Ur-El: No, the human spirit embodied directly in a man or a woman, and it will always evolve as a man or a woman, as well as the animal embodies in an animal and it will continue evolving as animal. This doesn't mean an evolutionary stagnation, because the current chimpanzee is much more evolved than the chimpanzee of two million years ago..........." OK, the question is, then why I have not been created as a cockroach or an elephant? And what about the soul of a cockroach? (I am purposely using this example because most humans as far as I am concerned detest cockroaches!) So is creation unfair? Does the soul or spirit of a virus or bacteria have no chance to embody into a human body in a distant future to attain enlightenment? I have read Hindu and Buddhist scriptures with regards to this and they generally state that all creatures will eventually attain enlightenment or be embodied into a human form. There is a popular saying in Hinduism that it takes about 8 million years for a simple bacteria to embody into a human body. Of course, I am aware that the time taken could be longer or shorter as well. I love to hear your thoughts on this. This paragraph which I have quoted at the beginning of this thread has been bothering me for a long time. Thank you.

The passage of the story you quoted doesn’t address that. I suppose we could imagine things and add it into the piece of the story above. Or perhaps one could contact the author of the story to see what he imagines. If we assume that there is a thing called enlightenment that is good and we assume that there are some beings that do not have access to this goodness and we assume that such beings are lesser, then I would say yes, it is unfair. According to the story you posted from Johnakan, no chance. According to the story you cite from Hindu and Buddhist scriptures, yes chance. Cool stuff. I like stories about reincarnation and souls. Sometimes I imagine each being is a pod exploring earth and all of our souls are connected to one Mothership. As pods break down and die, they get recycled into new pods. In one sense, it isn’t unfair since all pods are the Mothership. Yet if one assumes that pods are different, some pods are better, and one is restricted to a certain pod fate for eternity, then that would be unfair. It’s essentially saying there is a “me” that got stuck with a crappy fate for eternity.

However, one could argue that the "subtle body" aka soul is experienced in an afterlife of some sort until reincarnation. It is a possibility, that many believe in.... Even Vedanta states the subtle body goes to a heaven or hellish realm until it's present karma is extinguished from this current life, then reincarnation.

I have Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder. My mind fools me a lot and I wasted my youth in my mind fantasizing, running after delusions and not being productive at all. There was depression, regret and etc. I have felt suicidal a lot of times. Then 2 years ago I read Eckhart Tolle's book "The Power of Now" and got hope. I started to do meditation in order to make my mind, brain healthier and be happy. I did not know what is ego, what is nirvana, what is insight and etc. I thought ego was some part of my mind and I will get rid of it and be happy like Eckhart Tolle. ... until the beginning of last year, when I got depersonalization/derealization. At that time I found out that ego was me. I was ego. It was so scary. Just several months 20 minutes per day meditation damaged the sense of self. I stopped meditation, sense of self recovered after weeks and I was still unhappy with my ego (no surprise), so after 5 months I resumed meditation. Now I meditate 40 minutes per day and have never got that intense depersonalization yet. I hope I will accept it when it happens. Frustration: 1) I thought it is like sport, I will meditate every day and my mood will get better day by day. But meditation exacerbated depression, regret and etc. I have faith for better outcome, that is why I still continue meditation. 2) I dont believe some notions in spiritual path, such as reincarnation, magickal beings, realms and etc. These notions make me confused. I even think it is psychological path, not spiritual. 3) A lot of people who have been meditating for long years say different, contradictory things, I dont know which is true. This forum is a good example. The biggest challenge is my unfulfilled desires.

I thought about this a bit and came to understand that rebirth/reincarnation doesn't really make sense because you were never born to begin with. Nonduality states there is no individual you/ego, so there cannot be a being that is reborn. The real question that should be asked is if Consciousness will continue to create and identify as form after the ending of this particular form as a body and world.

Forms of Spirituality ? Liberation and enlightenment The concept of being free from illusions and rules and feeling totally free and self love. Ayahuasca. Restfulness and detachment. Positive visualization. ? Divinity and Heroism.. Using God's love to get through life and harnessing the energies of the universe. That is stoicism.. Divinity is being strong, taking guidance and deriving strength from a higher source and using that to fight and survive through life. ? Character based. Qualities and attributes. Divine qualities. Godliness. The nature of God or the divine. Morality. ?Justice and morality, judgement. Religion. Behavior. Morality. Karma. Actions and outcome and judgment ? Eternity, life after death, ascension. Reincarnation. ?Mysticism like spirits, supernatural, paranormal events, ghosts, intangible sentiments. The mystic part. ?Spiritual struggle. Or war. Between material and spiritual rewards. ? Invocation, love, faith, inspiration and connection... Spells and prayers and having a loving connection and guardian relationship.. Like Swan. ? Filling the cup ? Cosmic principles based. Ma'at Sheene Dao. Universal laws. Law of attraction ?Energy based. About emotions. Words. Spiritual food. Chakra healing. The energy you create and harness. Positive visualization. Being creative. ?Contemplation based. Meditation, contemplation shadow work, insights, awareness, reflection, transcendental. Observation. ?Nature worship ? Empathy love charity, purity of Conscience, charity. Kindness. Kind acts. Helping people. Creating communities. ? Consciousness and Oneness.

Spirituality based on 5 principles ? Liberation and enlightenment The concept of being free from illusions and rules and feeling totally free and self love. Ayahuasca. Restfulness and detachment. Positive visualization. ? Divinity and Heroism.. Using God's love to get through life and harnessing the energies of the universe. That is stoicism.. Divinity is being strong, taking guidance and deriving strength from a higher source and using that to fight and survive through life. ? Character based. Qualities and attributes. Divine qualities. Godliness. The nature of God or the divine. Morality. ?Justice and morality, judgement. Religion. Behavior. Morality. Karma. Actions and outcome and judgment ? Eternity, life after death, ascension. Reincarnation. ?Mysticism like spirits, supernatural, paranormal events, ghosts, intangible sentiments. The mystic part. ?Spiritual struggle. Or war. Between material and spiritual rewards. ? Invocation, love, faith, inspiration and connection... Spells and prayers and having a loving connection and guardian relationship.. Like Swan. ? Filling the cup ? Cosmic principles based. Ma'at Sheene Dao. Universal laws. Law of attraction ?Energy based. About emotions. Words. Spiritual food. Chakra healing. The energy you create and harness. Positive visualization. Being creative. ?Contemplation based. Meditation, contemplation shadow work, insights, awareness, reflection, transcendental. Observation. ? Nature worship..

In the first lot of pictures he looks close to finding out if reincarnation actually happens. Second lot of pictures is Leo watching a Ricky Gervais performance. Third set of pictures is after Leo has inherited a lot of money and spends $1,000 per month on the upkeep of his beard. Thanks for this.

@SunnyNewDay Hard to say, it won't matter either way because you will self-decieve yourself as god once again. reincarnation is just a term for explaining form/formless "you" won't get reincarnate, but "you as formless" as god will split back into form I'm just telling stories about in-between transitions that may or may not be true. it's not important really, but i once heard some other lecturer talking about this. so i thought it would be viable to talk about, in theory and not illogical. you can youtube many people talking about their imaginary spirit guide lol

People talking about reincarnation as if they know this is 100% what actually what happens.... Often wonder if this is just something people regurgitate after taking some mushrooms and watching some spiritual theory online or if they actually have discovered something that is true.

When the day comes you’ve suffered quite enough from in materialism, and you begin the path of self discovery...you’ve got having murdered someone to heal from, the police trying to figure out who you are, always looking over your shoulder, waking up everyday wondering if this is the day you get arrested and spend the rest of your life in jail, the maddening burden of the lives you effected by killing someone, etc, etc. You’ve made this life a hell. No need to consider reincarnation. What about a psychopath who doesn’t care? How infinite is love. Where is the truth not? Can they be separated?

Sorry, I meant *detangle not deranged. And no. When you get sick of “all the hassle” (SUFFERING) - you get willing. Up to you how long you go on. Thinking is hijacking experience and feelings right under your nose, and you’re feeding into it more - rather than addressing it, by making it about “Enlightenment”, and your story about “Reincarnation”. This is the fragmenting, not the practices. You’ve got that backwards...but thinking keeps it backwards because it is always staying a step ahead, which is what practices are designed for. You have yet to realize that all your thoughts about you, are false.

I don't mean to preach but when you have serious emotional and self-esteem issues, I don't think reincarnation is a subject that you should be concerned with right now.