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I know you have your experiences. It just seems like question begging that you have been wrong in the past, so what makes you so sure that your highest awakening isn’t the highest deception? I mean if we take the nonduality logic on, everything is one and equals everything. That applies to truth being falsehood and awakening being a deception. That means that all dualities collapse including your highest awakening being your highest self-deception????????

And not the absolute truth?

Yes. Let me allow to hijack the post Beyond the "no-self" of no biographical self/ego self there are some more "encompassing" "higher" no-selfs. Or better said: Some stages of much more empty no-selves. First personality/biographical self/"ego" goes (1) then time goes: Always here Mind, time is just a concept (2) Then the locatedness of being in the body for example goes: one is the whole visual field, or beginning nonduality (3) then that becomes infinite. Anything that could appear appears in boundless Reality/Infinite Consciousness. (4) Then we have personality/egoless (1), timeless (2), boundless/nondual (3) and infinite (4). All of these are Awakenings/Enlightenments. But not the Full Enlightenment/Waking Up. But then there is even a murky no-self still there: It is nothing, totally empty, but still some individuality/separation still there, moving as I-thought/I-feeling on Reality/Oneself. This here: IN that state (1)+(2)+(3)+(4), when all last traces of individuality are seen moving within onself (that takes time), then the Big Bang or Waking Up or Full Enlightenment can happen, where one actually becomes Reality, no more questions left. And Infinite Absolute Reality/Infinite Consciousness/Nothingness can be described as (True) No-Self (since no individuality is left splitting Reality in two), or as Self (because all possible worlds appear in it). Then You ARE Absolute Reality (everything that shows or could ever appear, and all beings/perspectives), but no longer confuse a separate individual part for your true self. I have written about that before in previous posts, one can search for examle if one is so inclined for Basis Enlightenment in my posts. The problem quite often here on this forum, and with the effect of some of Leos teachings: Thinking one has realized No-Self, while one has NOT achieved True No Self, but some of the preliminary versions of No-Self (see above), boosted by psychedelics, and including a lot of higher realm stuff accessed with that. Nothing too bad with that, if it is just a step/stage, is just not the end of the story, and doesn't end suffering. Or worse: Not even having had the Awakenings (1)-(4), and just conceptually boosting the separate self and equating it with God/Reality. Problem of these stages: Instead of finally transcending/killing the separate self, these moves boost it. And most important: Only @Bazooka Jesus is awake. I mean, come on, that mother of declaration of AWAKE can not be topped, so I think that is something we can all agree on Selling Water by the River PS: To make it a bit more practical: Ever dreamt you were somebody/something completely different? Or dreamt of being just an empty camera not self-reflective at all, just watching, thinking and reflecting nothing? That is pretty near. Infinite Consciousness is totally empty, just aware. Can take any feeling/thinking of being anything, anyone, anybody. It is empty, impersonal, so that it is compatible to any mindstream. "IT" is already the Awareness of all Beings. YOU! Already. But not what you think you are. Only an empty Awareness can be in the perspectives/mindstreams of other beings/perspectives, not the "loaded" mindstream of a being that still feels separate (has ego-arisings the cause the illusion of being something specific/separate). Imagine being somebody/something completely different. An Alien. A cat. And YOU, your Awareness is still there. And nothing really is lost if such a shift were to happen. So nothing is lost, just the illusion that all the thinking/feeling brings, moves, in you. And besides this Awareness/Nothingness, nothing is, was, ever will be. THIS is also all appearances, Consciousness appearing as appearances, nondual. IT is Reality itself. And to fully get/understand that, ALL identity has to go. Impersonal, Fully Empty Awareness. Nondual and infinite, timeless, always here, never not possible being not here. Anything possible necessarily appearing in IT/YOU. And the True One/You are still there... Impersonal. Silent. Infinite. Aware. Timeless. Containing all appearances. Nothing besides it. One without a second. Reality itself.

I grew up Christian then quickly transitioned into atheism and became a pretty hard skeptic slowly transitioning to that we can't know anything. I did find nonduality in the past year or so and I just had this deep "knowing" that this is the truth despite my critical approach to everything before. I had all these experiences that showed it to me. Yet I always have these questions of "How do I know I can trust this feeling, these writings and teachings?" Nonduality makes logical sense but that isn't inherently evident that it is the answer yet I feel this feeling of just wanting to accept it. If I accept it as truth then I come off as indoctrinated and ideological. Especially when trying to explain it to people. One person would say "The kyballion is about as correct as elmo being God" How do I know and trust a mind that constantly morphs data and hallucinates what I see? My mind could easily trick me into thinking I "know" the truth.

Alright… man it’s been awhile. Again I remember this online Journal and I know it was very beneficial for me. I’ve actually been getting some people to start writing their own journals… not online but personally. I have been enjoying myself lately. Nothing big and exciting, but damn it’s so nice to just relax and chill and just see what differences I’m experiencing now. And it’s been amazing. Lol… if anyone sees or hears what I’ve been doing lately they don’t really know how I could be loving whaat I’ve been doing… but that’s the whole thing right… being able to find joy anywhere at anytime doing or just being whatever I choose to be at any moment. I feel readjusting my values helps me see where I’m focused and it’s been rewarding. I also try to mention values to people, but no one’s bit on that concept yet… hehe. So yeah my conversations are changing up a bit. I’m definitely feeling like I’m getting better at being patient and listening to where they are at and give a little bit of wisdom in words that i feel they understand. It’s great to find people who are opening up more on our conversations. It’s really nice. Granted not everyone but that’s where my discernment is kicking in. I”m just not spending much time or effort when people aren’t being receptive. It’s like I’m noticing when they’re not really listening.. hehe. I can see when they’re just in their heads and their listening to their thoughts instead of engaging in conversation. And how I’m not getting frustrated as much. So… there are people who are interested in sharing ceremony with me. I love ceremony so i know I’d like to share with others, but I know many aren’t really ready and so having conversations there’s a lot that can be gained by spending time and attention with them. I did end up sharing ceremony with one of the close friends I had growing up. I believe I’ve mentioned her before. I also asked if I could share our experiences together and she said it’s ok with her. She has been the first person where I could see that she was open to what I’m learning. I find myself chatting with her and I’ll even be saying out loud that I’m surprised at what I’m telling her. Sometimes I know I go too far and it’s over her head, but I think it’s good to plant seeds. She’s got serious curiosity. She thinks what she’s asking makes her sound stupid… and i have to reaffirm her that her questions don’t make her look stupid… they’re great questions even if they sound simple. Simple really goes deeper if she’s wanting to go deeper. But we shared a Bufo ceremony together. I had mentioned the trifecta and last time i was here… I wasn’t adding the third element in ceremony… so she started to get nervous. She knows she doesn’t need to be anxious, but she can’t help herself. I told her it’s normal and healthy… but I know in the middle of ceremony we’ll laugh out loud that we had to talk about possibly having a challenging time. Because she’s pretty natural in this state. She’s one of the ones who actually hasn’t gone into too much research with what I’m sharing her. I’m confident that she trusts me, and I continue to tell her that she wants me to share about my experiences, but her experiences are going to be different. But I feel it’s best to not have too much expectations going in. We didn’t even do the trifecta and I told her that is always the case as well. I don’t know how far we take each ceremony anyway…. Lol… but after ceremony a few days later… I finally got her full attention to ask how ceremony went for her. I mean I know what I experienced and she stayed the night with me. But the next morning was Father’s Day so she had her errands to run and then her daughter had her 21st birthday the following day. So she had some busy days… I tried to stop by the next day but she was taking a nap and so I waited. But she’s like how in the world can we explain it? I laughed with her… it’s not really anything we can explain. But we do enjoy expressing our experiences so we just have to have practice… this is a good time to start. I know we spoke during ceremony, but how would you describe your experience? She gets so excited when she tries to explain. Her hands shake and she feels her body vibrates… at first it was so powerful and intense… in fact she pulled the trash can closer to her as if she felt like she was going to throw up. I saw her doing this… I was finishing up my hit and as I was placing it down… I just whispered to her to relax…. Breathe… and she started to breathe and she went to sitting and then laid down. I remember smiling and saying… this is what life really is. In my mind I’m getting more hopeful that the people I’m sharing ceremony can experience nonduality. But also in a general sense I expect them to start laughing at themselves and at me and at all the people we know… everything as in fear, doubt, worries, and pain melts away…. And for this moment I anticipate people will just start laughing at all the bullshit we put ourselves in… lol… but that’s not what happened… but she was closing her eyes and breathing deliberately and slowly. To her at this time and other moments we’ve shared in ceremony she says…. It’s everywhere… it’s everywhere… I don’t know how to explain it but it’s everything. I chuckle and so do she… She realizes that doesn’t really explain anything but she doesn’t know how to describe it. She looks at me and asks me… do you know what I’m trying to say? Well… with my experience and knowing you…. I’m not sure but when I hear you say that and how you say it is that you are realizing that everything is a part of you. It’s going from being a spectator and looking at things that are separate from you which is over there… but then you realize… oh it’s not over there… it’s here and it’s a part of me and I’m a part of it…. Lol… am I close? And she’s like yeah… that’s how it feels. Now I want to go deeper with her about this… this is a very important insight but I want things to settle in for her… and also finding a time that we can be by ourselves again to really chat. But as I was thinking about this… this is a good way to explain to people the difference between recreational to intentional psychedelics. One of many but this one… intentional psychedelics can give you the experience of oneness which has many degrees. Yes she seemed to understand that there’s something connecting everything together. When she looks around the room she doesn’t see a space where it doesn’t exist. But I’m not sure she really connected that it’s too as well… I think she did but I want to make sure see gets planted with this fact… even if she doesn’t see it in herself.. I’m sure she can feel it. I might try I to go more into the fact that she is intimately involved with what she’s experiencing. And the more conscious part of her is creating this experience. That’s a good way to possibly explain Aya ceremonies too… she’s ultimately creating the experience so that’s why her experience is very personal. And so it’s easy to digest that she possibly could be creating a psychedelic experience, but ultimately that’s what’s going on at all times… but she won’t realize it at first but having that run in her mind in the background… it might get her to be more open. I’ve already been emphasizing the trick is to not know rather than to know. It’s easy to reference a friend of ours that we hangout with… its one of her neighbors. She confesses to me that it annoys her when he acts like he knows it all and it’s obvious to us that many of the things he says he knows.. he really doesn’t. And so it was an easy example to explain that he wants to know it all… since he knows it all then he’s not really as open to learn knew things. Granted we know things… but we can always know things at a deeper level… so if we’re more open to know we don’t know it all, then our learning can be accelerated. She’s got a good handle on what I’m trying to tell her, but I know she can only understand by what she’s experienced and reflected on. But again I’m around to help trigger her memory when she gets distracted… lol. There was a long moment in ceremony where we just stared into each others eyes… it was as if we were locked in… and I asked her if she remembers this and she said yes… I said that a way to explain this is we’re able to look at ourselves at a soul level we could say. I asked her if she was trying to describe who she was looking at? When I was looking at her… I wasn’t thinking of this is Desiree and this is the girl I’ve been close friends with since sixth grade. She has a daughter and on and on… I was looking at you who is me being able to observe ourselves in a really deep manner without all the backstory playing in our heads. She agreed and said there has been many points in ceremony where she seems to be able to look at me at the soul level. I tried to explain to her that not all the people I share ceremony can see each other at that level. I tried to explain that I have a rememberance of the soul level when I speak to people. Again… lol… sometimes I’m waiting for everyone to start breaking down laughing realizing that we are playing out this story we don’t know each other… but we are ancient and infinite friends… lol… so do we really have to play this game out? But it’s not like it’s not fun to play this game out.. but really… really we know each other at a soul level…. Lol.. anyway I told her… even though I’m aware of this… I have to play out the game to see where they are in the game, right. If they’re on the level of strangers and having all these problems they have to get a handle on… I’ll play it out. And honestly I’m getting better at playing this game out. I think I’m better at playing along but also seeding a few things for things to get their minds curious enough to explore more. She knows that I like to give examples… and she also knows that many times I’m giving examples to explain what I’m seeing in her experience… but also it’s helping me learn at a deeper level for myself too. She’s very observant and bright… she just doesn’t have that confidence in her and that was her main message. First of all she asked… what do you actually mean when you say you get messages. I said… do you have any moments when you’re in ceremony and your mind tells you something to notice or understand? She said well I think my message was “to focus on myself”… and i chuckled again… that’s an amazing message and I was getting that for you too. I remember telling you that in ceremony and I remember when she said yes… focus on me… it wasn’t as if she heard me saying it… but she was saying as if… yeah that’s what I was just getting it and you were able to say it out loud and it helped me understand this is important for me to remember and feel. I told her during ceremony that she just needs to relax and be patient… her mind needs to slowly adjust to the changes. But there’s not a manual to tell her what she needs to do to focus on herself. She said she understood… I told her spiritual work is challenging because she’s got to try many new things and there’s no guarantee that it’s going to be a fit for us… but going through that process we get more discerning… and also as we mature… our process will mature with us. The thing with her… she is a recovering addict… so she knows the tough choices she had to make to get her out of her addiction. And I told her… there’s going to be tough choices ahead of her still… if she really wants to focus on her spirituality. She’s a people pleaser and I know exactly how that is and the challenges I’ve had to face and overcome to see where I am wholistically before I go to help people right now. I know a few suggestions I have for her, but I’m not sure if I’m going to tell her… maybe in passing if she wants some suggestions. I have already told her she’s the authority of her life… so i might keep it that way unless she wants some specific suggestions. That’s another thing I want to mention… when she asked me what I meant by receiving messages… I though that was a great question… because to me it’s very obvious… but after she asked me… I realized how someone won’t understand unless they’ve had it themselves. So yes… in my experience I’m not having someone else coming to me in ceremony and telling me messages… again it’s always felt like it was myself but I guess my higher consciousness self giving me messages… and I know now that my state of consciousness will interpret and understand it in the way and manner I could at that point. And I know when I go back to my messages I can see something that I missed the first time. But it was good for me to get better at explaining to people when I know the areas that aren’t really clear. I can put it a bit clearer for people… the best I can… hehe. There has been a few times where I’ve heard an actual voice that did seem it was something “other” than me… so again… in these states I’m interpreting them as other… I still seem to enjoy feeling there’s an alternate version of me who wants to guide me. Because… when I heard these voices… it was shocking and jarred me… because again it was as if I heard them through the ears not through the mind like as if I’m having conversations in my dreams lets say… they hearing is mental hearing but not filtering through my ears mostly.. but when they filtered through my ears… it really does seem more significant and strange. I don’t think I’ve told her all the ways I’ve received messages… so yeah I guess this is helping me figure out opportunities to go deeper with her if we can find the time.d. Of course… once we get together it’s much better to go with the flow and natural… so maybe it’s not just for her and me why I’m writing it out. But yeah… in my hometown I’m running into some interesting characters… and i”m really enjoying myself. I’m finding myself more open for spontaneous attractions as well… so I knew I wanted to get out and explore more. I went to the wastewater plant in town and I thought it was cool… I had already heard about the process but to see it and get it explained by an enthusiastic employee was very awesome. I know that triggers community designs and gets me wanting to ask more questions and see the other styles of how other communities do it. Just one example our little town the sewer and rainwater is combined. He mentioned this so then I figured there’s other systems where they are separate…so I’d like to see what the differences are. It was pretty funny too because they updated their system about seven years ago… so there were plants and trees growing in their older buildings and since I studied a bit about Earthships and I love the way the recycle water… I asked if they’re using the plants to help filter too… and he laughed… no we just aren’t clearing out the older spaces as often as we should. That’s when we used sand to filter out… and so I asked him what the differences to the update and the changes they made. That was near the final when they used to put chemicals into the water and then used the sand to do the final filteration… they use the ultraviolet lights now as the final step to sterilize the water before placed back into the creek. I also would like to know more about the activated sludge that’s created…. we went into the lab, but he’s not part of the lab so he just explained the basics and we saw a chart of the microorganisms that can be or is part of the activated sludge. But I believe they have farmers come and pick it up to make fertilizer. I wonder if I can get the company name again… he named a specific company that’s not too far from our town who takes the majority of the sludge… if I could do a little field trip there too… it would be fun… there’s a few things popping up all over the place that’s drawing my attention…. So I’m not sure who and what I’m going to bump into… but yeah… life is good… until next time

Interesting expression, juxtaposed with love and light, this guy just goes straight to the business.

The relationship between healing psychological dysfunction and nondual awakening or enlightenment is much more nuanced and interesting than mere nonduality dogma that "enlightenment is all you need." What happens in reality is that enlightenment rids one of the problem of the I-thought, which clings to certain personality aspects (i.e. The Ego.) So shadow work is much more difficult and less fruitful before enlightenment. It doesn't mean shadow work doesn't take place after enlightenment. You're not just magically saved after you see through the I-thought. That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works! Only then can the process of shadow integration really proceed without resistance, and it takes many years for it to get far enough so that you can say you are anywhere close to "healed." But if you lazy motherfuckers think you're just going to be magically saved after reaching enlightenment, you're in for a world of disappointment. The issue is that you have decades of habits built up from having an ego that don't just magically disappear. You have to use you new insights to rebuild your habit structure, so that negative habits are shed and positive habits ingrained. That's what "heals" the brain (i.e. trauma patterns, maladaptation, etc.) You could do that now, but you won't, because your ego is in the way. None of this stuff is mystical or complicated. It's just difficult to change because of the ego, that's all.

Hello! This is going to be a very drug oriented post. Psychedelics are highly regarded as being capable of being tools for personal development and getting introduced into nonduality. My first experience of the nondual paradigm was on 1mg of LSD. An absurdly high dose. I was basically on the floor most of the time but during my come down it was pure bliss in which it clicked like a lightbulb that everything is one. I didn't know why. I just knew. It took such a high dose I think because I've grown up as a highly logical and connected person to my perceived reality. Although I don't know if autism has any role in that as I was told that I am a high functioning autistic when I was young, No idea if I was diagnosed. I also expressed many attributed behaviors as a child to this. But I digress. I stumbled upon DXM in OTC cough medicine soon after graduating high school and the idea of a dissociative intrigued me so I began to experiment. I ended up going into 3rd and 4th plateau territory in which you can perceive landscapes in darkness, tons of shapes and images. I remember visually seeing time come to a halt and seeing what I perceived as God. If you decide to experiment yourself after seeing this post, beware that high amounts of dissociation can be scary if you don't know how to handle it. Its also very habit forming. I had a bit of a problem for a little bit, but fortunately wasn't very hard for me to correct. Always do research! To the meat of the story: this one instance I decided to combine DXM with LSD. 300mg of DXM and about an hour in I took 500ug of LSD. I was also in a call with a friend for this. and OH BOY was it a ride. Its a very hard experience to recall. The first thing that happened was my mind went to heavily focus on the electrical sounds of my computer. Almost like I was tuning into it. It was then I knew I was in for a ride. Visuals and colors were cycling on everything I saw, the colors blended like a smooth gradient, the visuals like the tracers were SO intense that I felt like I could create my own reality as if my hand was a paintbrush. I remember perceiving the universe being built up from its most fundamental form up. It was as if LSD made me hyperfocused on my perceived reality but DXM was the key I needed to take my mind out enough to really let the LSD lead my mind. I remember talking to my friend about reality once I was able to get myself together to talk and I was in awe at the sheer infinite scale of reality and I just started laughing and said "IT JUST WORKS" A full near 8 hours stuck to my bed and my mind like pushed me off a cliff straight into nonduality at hyperspeed. It was this trip that meditation made perfect sense to me and I questioned why I was even confused by it. It was realization after realization. It shattered what I had thought before and I spent a long time after it just trying to fathom the knowledge I had received. This trip was also when I was shown Leo's video "The magnitude of reality" and was introduced to Actualized. This sole trip was what caused my entire paradigm shift unexpectedly when I kept doing LSD before to try and understand what all these guys on these psychedelic forums were talking about. Now it all made sense. So this has made me question. We see so much about psychedelics for nonduality purposes, but can dissociatives be a tool for such too? Has anyone had any profound experiences due to dissociatives? Maybe I just found the drug combination that worked for me? But still it blows my mind to see just adding a low dose of DXM what it can do for me that high doses of lsd was nowhere near close to doing. (I have no experience of 5-meo but DMT will be soon )

Wow, that has set a very high benchmark for a 1000th post. If that isn't art, I don't know what is. So if there are any imaginary nonduality-wars to be fought (Arjuna anybody?), lets do them relaxed, with compassion, cool, with style and smart. If our Bodhisattvas Manjrushi & Guanying are going to continue to do their thing, then in the 21st century they sometimes need the support of Bazooka Jesus & company: Long live the one and only AWAKE Bazooka Jesus! Water by the River PS: Um, who exactly is there awake?

good = this benefits my survival evil = this threatens my survival Absolute Good = God = Nonduality = no more dividing reality Why do we use Absolute Good as a pointer and not Absolute Evil, even though Infinity is basically death, the end of survival? - You'd have to ask God for that one.

Just watched this youtube video featuring 3 people that are very very, intelligent. They discuss nihilism, but of course from a dualistic perspective. Many, many times they border on the possibility that all of reality is groundless, but that's never really explored... Well ya can't blame them, the only way to explore it is by drowning in silence Just as a disclaimer, I'm not trying to discredit these guys at all. I just found it fascinating that you could intellectually reach the edges of duality but nevertheless end up trapped. I suggest you check out more of Cosmicskeptic's stuff, though he is fundamentally one of those "Atheist channels" that seem to run contradictory to most of the stuff we do here at Actualized.org, the guy really does try hard to push his boundaries and you can see him questioning a lot of things including himself.

i did not see this coming...

I have no idea.

Only 10mgs ( my first ever thc gummy). just lot’s of input. i’ve also been listening to a lot of nonduality talks, today for example these https://youtu.be/X6A5a_FZPak hope it’s no psychosis ?

OH GOD I AM FUll OF SHIT It is just obvious to me that I didn't complete even 1% of my spiritual journey, yet I sometimes tend to overrate myself until I am slapped in my face by myself to wake the fuck up from these daydreams. And at the sametime, I know I am special in a certain way. I have the seed in me that will sprout into a big fking ass tree one day. I feel a lot of people here have the same problem and that's why Leo, is always reminding us that we know nothing. Ironically, I also have the problem of self doubt and I tend to underestimate myself and doubt my abilities despite I know that these doubts are not true. Maybe this represents the nature of my bipolar brain. It is like having two opposite personalities in one person. One person is arrogant and foolishly self confident and the other one is weak and skeptical. My mission is to merge these two personalities into one and break that duality into nonduality, hehe

Anyone here who claims to be AWAKE, or to understand what AWAKE is, or what GOD is, or what CONSCIOUSNESS is -- is fooling themselves. The only one here who understands these things is ME. This does not mean, however, that I cannot sometimes be full of shit myself. I can. I am not perfect. But not on this issue. Enlightenment is not AWAKE. Buddhism is not AWAKE. Nonduality is not AWAKE. No amount of meditation is AWAKE. There will be a lot of bitching and moaning over this issue. But I simply told you the truth. You've been warned. This is way more tricky than you ever imagined. My function here is to guide people through every trick. But the problem is, they don't want to be guided because they already think they've figured it out. Don't be that guy.

Yes. I saw too much deep structure similiarties in all the spiritual traditions. That made sense to me. That was the only coherent explanation of the Kosmos for me. And the concept of Integral (Wilber) resonated deeply in me. So, a long time nothing happened where it could be said that meditation is more than just mindfulness training. Relaxing, interesting, a bit of bliss, but also in the beginning just one of the hardest and most annoying things one can try. Basic meditation training: Formal training on the pillow, mindfulness during daily life. Over quite some years. Stage 1 Mahamudra: Skill of Reckongition: And the thing with the increased thought-emerging-frequency was really the point where it took off. First, the ability to stay "on top" of the mindstream and cut it at will. Later, awakened states with nonduality followed. Stage 2/3: So then, a few years later, Nonduality followed. Before that point, it brought quite some bliss. But nothing where one could say: Yes, thats it. Don't need any external proof or convincing anymore. Nonduality changes that. It is evident. Stage 4: And then later, after some years letting these states develop and ripen, always here Ultimate Reality started dawning. 4 Mahamudra Main-stages: 0: Initial Concentrative Meditation as preaparation 1 stage: Skill of Reckognition: Cutting off the Thought Mindstream 2 stage: Yoga of Unelaboration: Always Here (never not here, timeless) Mind opens up 3: Yoga of One Taste: Nonduality 4: Yoga of Nonmeditation: Separate Self gets transcended. Pure Impersonal infinite Consciousness/Awareness without any separate-self flying around in it, itself being the world and all manifestation. That is the deep structure found in every meditation system. It is always in a deep structure similiar to that. And the tricky point, where most of the discussion happens here: Between 3 and 4. Psychedelics do bring one to a pretty empty nonduality. But not to that which stage 4 brings.... Not fully empty and impersonal. Not fully conforming to the enlightened mindstream. Water by the River

The deciding step for really getting the nondual awakened states flowing what is described below. Before that point in practice, no Nonduality, the visual field rock solid "material" and out there "external". No awakened state. To get there took quite some years. Could have been faster with good coaching, but didn't have that. Imagine it like this: Many years of meditation the mindful-way. Zero awakened state from that, not to even think about Nonduality at all. Didn't even know what that really is, despite reading about it. And then the bliss of these states, and nonduality opened up.... But that was also a process over several years. Cutting off the mindstream like this, or at least letting it fully transparent flow in oneself (that is not the usual mindfulness, its thought train appears like an object-flow in you), changes the energetic states of the whole system. It is an indirect path (but it can't be different): You influence the thought via ATTENTION (this is something you can guide/focus/control). You can't directly influence the Awakened State, how could you. You look into the thoughts, like described below. They dissolve then, their nature IS emptiness/consciousness. That done long enough brings the energetic shift to the awakened states. At least for me. And for thousands of others, see the Mahamudra-and Dzogchen practicelineages. Since more than one Millenia. And of course you can do that also! Every being can. The essence of each thought IS Consciousness/Emptiness. The separate-self IS these thoughts, and corresponding feelings. One can dissolve them all. And that clears the way. Reality it litereally desinged in such a way that: Separate Self = Clouding over= thought stream when that is not cut/Trekchö, the clouding mechanism starts: Reality is "out" there/external/duality, "solid/material, and limited (visual field bubble has an imagined border) not infinite. Switch off the separate self thought/feeling flow, the illusion-system ("out" there/external, "solid/material, and limited) gets switched off). That design of Reality makes complete sense: Samsara NEEDS this illusion (external/duality, solid, not infinite) The illusion can be dissolved by aligning to Reality (EMPTY IMPERSONAL JUST AWARENESS, NOT separate self-illusion).when that is practiced to make the mindstream conform to Reality, the illusion arisings (external/duality, solid, not infinite) fall away. Yoga of One Taste And in that nondual impersonal state of Infinite nondual mere appearance/lucid/not solid Infinite Consciousness, one can dissolve the final subtle illusion: Subtle Separateness of a Transparent witness, still coloured by Individuality and Separateness. Yoga of Nonmeditation. I can only highly recommend you to read the book, start the practice (similiar as described below) over a longer time period, and see what happens. Psychedelics only lift the veil mainly concerning this here (external/duality, solid, not infinite). But they don't dissolve the Illusion mechanism, the clouding over. Let's describe it in Engineering-language: The separate self is a positive feedback-loop: Uncut/Untranscended thought-stream including separate self I-thoughts/I-feelings triggers a system that cause these illusion arisings for the visual field: illusion arisings (external/duality, solid, not infinite). And also regular dissatisfaction/suffering, which make the ego work on its next salvation-project to bring experiences that bring bliss and relieve. The endless circle of suffering, N+1. and an enormously stable clouding-over illusion system of the separate self. Works in Billions of people, normally nobody wakes up just by chance. Some do, then its normally Karma or something the like. But extremely few. Cut that system, at some point the cutting/Treckchö becomes self sustaining: positive feedback loop. Because its lovely, brings bliss. And before that tilting point, it takes energy, because its unpleasant. A negative feedback-loop while meditating. Mayas Illusion-protection-mechanism. Must be there, else everybody would be meditating. Then, via keeping the mindstream cut/Trekchö/Transcended, another positive feedback loop sets in: The Endohuasca-system gets triggered. This then makes the visual field mere appearance/lucid/not solid/infinite, and especially duality/externality goes. Brown calles it Boundless Timeless Awake Awareness/Consciousness. And resting in that brings even way more bliss, which allows dissolving core elements/Traumas of the separate self, and staying lucid in daily life also with problems. In these states, the last remnants of the separation-illusion are dissolved... Try to think in "positive-feedback-loops", and tilting points/mountain-passes to reach, having climed in goes downhill or automatic/nice/blissful. and initial uphill-climbs to get to the first downhill-track after crossing the mountain pass height Willpower/Suffering while meditating until a certain point, then blissfull/downhill/automatic. Then, ego/Trauma/pain throws curve ball, and the current meditation/bliss fails. Further practice. Momentum building. Gradually dissolving of the separate self contraction and suffering, bliss gets stronger. Increasingly, more and more difficult life situation can be handled lucid. And the magic point is, after some years: Sitting somewhere on a park bench, the bliss flowing, and: realizing the freedom & fullness of not needing anything. Water by the River From this Link: For me, the crucial Point for really getting the meditation "really" off the pillow into daily life was getting to THAT here Skill of Recognition: (1. Yoga of Mahamudra system) Now it gets interesting. That was the decisivepoint for me once I understood that, and implemented it. Afterwards, it started to get nondual pretty soon... If you look HOW the thoughts emerge, (1) out of what they emerge, (2) what they are, (3) in what they move (4) into what they disappear ALL of that (1)(2)(3)(4) must be present. Thoughts DO appear. From "something". Stay in "something". Consisting of "something" All of that is Emptiness, or Consciousness, or Nothingness. Thoughts are made of "that","move in that", "dissolve into that". and you will never SEE that, or can say what it is. Nothing. But not a blank nothing. An aware Nothing. Actually the essence of all world-appearances, but that comes later, when it gets nondual, at the Yoga of One Taste. What happens if you investigate into emerging thoughts this way, is that they get FASTER. VERY FAST. Like 20-30 emergent thoughts/feeling arisings per second, most of them rudimentary. The mind does this to keep the illusion going. To make it too fast for you. But at some point, you learned to get that fast also... Basically, looking into a thought, one sees its Emptiness/Nothingness (one doesn't find the thought, it evaporates). It is cut off. Dzogchen calls this cutting off "Trekchö". Daniel Brown called this stage a "High Speed Search Task into the unfindability of the nature of thoughts". A High Speed Search task into their emptiness, into their nature as consciousness, as Nothingness. So the emerging gets fast, very fast. Daniel Ingram also mentions that. But at some point, with enough practice and familiarity, YOU get faster. You spot and cut off every very fast, subtle, fragmentary thought arising. None of them "grips" you anymore, since you have seen them all, and their structure. Just thoughts arising very fast. You don't control which thoughts arise. Depended origination, they are just emerging by themselves. You can focus on just their arising (of thoughts), just their staying, just their going away. At some point, they just emerge, looking into their nature is automatic, and they immediately dissolve. No duration. Just emergence, and poof gone. And when you are fast enough, you get a continuance of staying mindful. When that happens its pretty clear what happened. Your attention got so fast that you can stay mindful even through the high-speed thought emergence. At the end, they come very fast, they don't get "elaborated out". Thinking, or elaborating the thoughts out, is slower than their emergence. They emerge already fully complete with their content, and then slowly get "talked/elaborated" in your mind. Natural reaction: So WHO the f*** am I (pardon my french) when I don't control what thoughts emerge and if they appear fully with their content in a fraction of a second, and get elaborated later in a hypnotic show over several second? good question... to be answered later. Outcome is: You know the nature of every possible thought (Consciousness-Emptiness-Nothingness), of the whole mental-continuum of thoughts, all that there can be. Their nature. you can cut off or transcend/just watch your normal mindstream in most daily situations without getting caught up/hypnotized by it, which already here leads to a lot of bliss. Not sufficient bliss to get ones separate self completely handled, but already quite wonderful. That is the start of real freedom. You know how your mindstream hypnotizes you, and gets faster when you actually look into each thought arising and its nature. At some point you get fast enough to cut off every arising, or let it elaborate in a controlled aka mindful way. @UnbornTao Oh please hit me. Instead of watching some nice travel-documentation as planned on TV yours truly did again the overkill...

Really Inspiring. Bon voyage on your path, that will walk itself soon enough all by itself, just following the bliss of its own essence. The Path showing itself to itself, after having won the grace of your True Nature. Some day, there will no one walking this path anymore. The path will become the unfolding of Infinite Reality itself. A Reality so wonderful expressing itself in every moment that no interference will ever be necessary again, or even possible again.... The states that can be achieved by meditation and energetic techniques are real and very powerful with enough practice. Most people get quite serious when they see that: The awakened states of for example infinite Nonduality, or Real Impersonal No-Self - Impersonal Infinite Consciousness Suchness, do have their impacts on the brainwaves, and for sure for the body-own Endo-Huasca-System producing a cocktail of body-endogenous Psychedelics: https://dmtquest.org/endohuasca-magic/ How else to explain the powerful infinite nondual awakened states achieveable by Psychedelics can be had with meditation and energetic practices, and which are so similiar to the Psychedelic experiences? Yes. Because it is a stage that has been earned by transformation and transcendence. States that have become permanent as stages. Going from states, to plateaus, to very permanent stages. And the remaining self doing these practices gets more and more refined. Pure. Impersonal. Empty. Transcendal. Not the remains of a separate ego/self, switched on and off by psychedelics, but never fully gone. The remains hindering the Full Realization in daily life, and are also projected on Infinite Consciousness during the trip, disfiguring its pure empty impersonal nature. So some lense always remain that prevent the final deep shift of Full Enlightenment. Ken Wilber: "The downside comes with people that only use psychedelics or drugs. And I found that over the years they just become mean it's somehow I just kind of closes them down. Its like you keep doing it and you keep doing it you keep doing and it doesn't quite cause the transformation. It can cause a peak experience but generally not a transformative experience and some people like David Deida will say that in order for altered changes of state to contribute to transformationpermit transformation it has to be basically endogenous not exogenous. It has to be has your own source. The people that do use both [psychedelics and meditation] and use it as a sacrament I think an enormous bit out of it. " Anybody ever wondered why that is? That Spirit/Infinite Reality prevents the crossing over through the Gateless Gate to Full Enlightenment if the soul is not purified enough, the separate-self/ego-illusion emptied out and transcended completely, all deaths died, all illusions gone? Maybe it is not a bug, but a deep deep feature? If we admit Infinite Intelligence to Infinite Reality, maybe Infinite Reality demands and requires giving up and transcending certain last subtle lenses also, letting the Illusion of separation fully die? And a high degree of compassion and some kind of Boddhisattva-vow? Because Infinite Reality itself IS Love? A fundamental archetype of manifestation, of essence? Sounds familiar and resonates? This combination of Transcendence and love is a deep structure of all spiritual systems of all ages. Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj — 'Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing.' Between the two, my life flows.' Water by the River

@Water by the River You wrote this in that post answerin to axiom (btw, i think it was a mistake to ban him, true that he insisted a lot with nothing, nothing, but he had some good points) : "And if you have become so impersonal or universal consciousness (nondual) that you can have that state of huge nonduality/mere appearance of the visual field/infiniteness sobre, well then you have deconstructed your separate self enough. This is the Gate-Keeper of the Gateless Gate. This deconstruction is better said a high-speed-search-task-and-cutting-off of separate self illusion-arisings (I-feelings, I-thoughts, Trekchö-Style), and that is what boosts the nonduality and mere appearance aspect of the visual field, which is " I understand what you say with a non-dual and infinite visual field. i come to that with 1 puff of weed, sober close. the present moment completely loses all interpretation and reveals itself as meaningless, unified, without differentiation subject object, empty of content, and limitless. Over all, real. The naked reality. But it could be longer, it's just moments, some minutes I don't understand how you can get to that with the observation and control of thoughts, I would say that it is impossible for me. The way to get there is to erase from this moment any fear, any barrier. open yourself fully to the moment and give of yourself. dissolve in yourself. you can go on thinking, but thoughts don't lock you in, they are surges that happen like anything else. although I suppose that if they disappeared completely the opening would be greater, total. that is where i have to arrive, to the total, absolute emptiness of the thinking mind. surrender must be total, any thought is a hold, we have to let go, totally. The i have to dissapear. I'm walking in that direction. Every opening is a step

Ok, agree, but once you change to a state, let's say, deep, silent, non-dual... even here, you are still limited. You have broken the ice surface of the bottomless pond, but the magnetism that the surface exerts is too strong. You are floating in infinity but you cannot immerse yourself in it, half of your body is still floating, your vision is short. yes. That is why nondual-unity states are not necessarily yet fully impersonal. Normally it is a stage on the path where the separate self finally dies and is seen through/transcended. Bit by bit. The full death/transcendence of the separate self (towards becoming (as Deep Identity) the Totality of Infinite Impersonal Consciousness/Awareness, independend of whatever shows up) needs a long time of ripening in the nondual state, to transcend the last subtle remnants of any kind of individuality/separateness. To go from nondual-unity to impersonal/no individuality/full infinite real Nonduality. Or waking up. @Bazooka Jesus: Quod erat demonstrandum Selling Water by the River

Enlightenment It is not just a reinterpretation or recontextualization. It tends to stabilize awakened states in daily life. Change of brainwaves for example: Good luck doing that with reinterpretation or recontextulization. Or "thinking" ones way to Enlightenment, blowing up the Ego to cosmic proportions. I mean Leo clearly says Awakening is a state change, an awakening, and not just recontextualisation or reinterpretation. Nonduality is clearly an awakened state and not just mental reinterpretation or recontextualization. Water by the River

Yes, much better than Absolute Solipsism. How about Ken Wilbers description/perspective? Every "thing/being" actually is a perspective (of Infinite Consciousness), a Holon. A crystal node in Indras Net, reflecting and reacting on all other Nodes. Indras Net is a very common Psychedelic Experience, so its not just theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indra's_net And now the cruical point: Everything, from Human, Animal, Plant, Molecule, Atom can be considered as perspective/holon imagined and held in Gods/Absolute Reality/Infinite Consciousness/ seemlingly "spliced" up Infinite Mind divided into infinite sub-perspectives. And using perspective as fundamental building block of the Lila (imagined of course), one never has to leave the Mind-Only thinking/school (Yogachara school of Mind Only Doctrine of Buddhism for example). All is Infinite Mind/Infinite Impersonal Consciousness/Suchness/Nothingness. Then, its actually quite easy to explain what happens with actualized.org, or your Laptop, or anything else when "you" leave the room and don't perceive it anymore: It continues as perspectives/Holons (Molecules and so on) in Indras Great Net, the sum total of the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness. Not as matter, but as perspectives/Holons held in Indras Net. And Indras Net is nothing else then Infinite Consciousness spliced into infinite perspectives. Same holds of course for other beings like humans. No need to say "you don't exist when I don't perceive you", which is madness anyway. And every Holon contains other sub-holons, a human contains organs, cells, molecules, atoms. Each being perspectives/Holons/perspectives reflecting and reacting on other Holons/perspectives. That solves the remaining problems of Solipsism easily, although its then no longer Solipsism, but True Nonduality. Infinite Consciousness splitting itself up into the Infinite Perspectives of Indras Net of Holons/perspectives of consciousness. The sum total of these infinite perspectives of Consciousness of Indras Net forms then the totality of the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness. Or "form". And beyond, and yet also in it as its essence, in a truly nondual way, it the Absolute, or Infinite Reality. Infinite Impersonal totally Empty Boundless Timeless Consciousness. That way of perceiving Reality solves all problems of Solipsism, and leaves one with True Nonduality. And that way of perceiving is a pointer that (if practiced until achieving its referent/meaning, Enlightenment) actually points and leads not to a cosmic ego of infinitely bloated dimension, identifying in unity with the whole Kosmos, and only ending in the claws of the separate-self contraction and the suffering that the ego is at its core, but to an enlightened Mindstream of Impersonal Infinite Consciousness/Infinite Reality. And the freedom from suffering, bliss and love these awakened states carry as their essence. Selling Water by the River

That is actually are very cool usage for the term Renaissance Man. And the ladies please modify that with a different term of your choosing... So, where were we? Ah, the Renaissance-Man (male female diverse alien ... n+1 ) -Nondual-Realizer Actually I like that concept of yours so much that I hijack it in my ususal style borrow it and continue with way to looong musings without explicit permission. If you don't mind ?! Fully agree to clearly telling from the beginning that having ones life integrated and balanced is essential: Blue self-discipline Orange financial abundance or even financial independence (but in a smart way, normally takes 1-2 decades at least) Green relationships/friends/family/partner/clubs/society (and training directly in coming back to the Market Place with open hands, even though the Ox stage 10 is not reached. If one only comes back after Ox Nr. 9, its probably a bit, uuuuuh, late, weird and out of training...-.). Just trying to be cool in general. You know, at least genuinly trying, despite all this spaced out Enlightenment/Awakening/Alien-Heavens stuff... Then, if you do it with style and smart, being on the path to becoming the Renaissance-Man (male female diverse alien ... n+1 ) -Nondual-Realizer can be quite funny & cool trip... And if one plays the Nondual-Missionary.... better do it by example (the Renaissance guy anything!) than conceptually talking people to the latest religion of the day seventh heaven of Nonduality. Yellow: Enduring the madness of the world, its multiperspectival-cultural wars, so not despairing on its acutal state, but seeing its potential (Ken Wilber once said nobody can stop ideas which time has come (for example Ancient Greece and Rome, Renaissance, Age of Enlightenment, Industrialization, Information Age. Integral anybody !? hell yes.... and could anybody stop these movements. They tried with all they had... ). Being Integral acutally works just fine if done correctly. Anytime one is p***** off or really annoyed, one is not integral... Coral and further making a working relationship with Guanyin & Manjushri Add Bazooka-Jesus "Happy Mexican Traditional Music MEXICAN PARTY Mariachi, Guitar, Trumpet" -Archetype to the Duo of Guanyin & Manjushri. Like an update to the well experienced and mighty medieval couple of transcendetal Boddhisattva Anuttarayoga Deity Duo. Then you have a mighty Trio of Anuttarayoga Tantra Deities/Archetypes. And with that, one can probably even survive the madness of this Postmodern-Age and other stuff in a lovingly-smiling way. @Bazooka Jesus No roalties for the "Happy Mexican Traditional Music MEXICAN PARTY Mariachi, Guitar, Trumpet" - Deity, ok? Like, in a Co-Invention? Using an efficient Meditation System. Yours truly engaged in some serious propaganda for a certain system in the past.... Not doing the Adi-Da thing, despite pretty crazy Nondual-realized. Just because its a bit uncool. Everbody enlightened can do the Guru show, but getting your financials/emotional/sexual hangovers managed that way is o-so-lame. Like in, NOT COOL AT ALL Apply for the Empty-Mirror-Job-Description in the Signature of yours truly (below) and if having had a serious Slap or two from the One Hand, annoy the conceptual Absolute Solipsism anything Ideology gladiators of this lovely Lila show of ours in way that displeases at least Maya. And never take the gig for more than a gig. But also not for less... Guanyin & Manjushri and the Mexican Bazooka Trumpeter will lend a hand... And while one is at it: Don't get a Burnout or Heart Attack while trying to be all one can be, and more. That is a decades long marathon, which should be run strategically and wisely. Be good to yourself. Nothing in this world ever runs completely smooth. But over a long time, mountains can be moved.... What one needs for avoiding the Heart Attack: A good map, and good practices. There is so much good stuff out in the public now, it fries my brains, considering how it was 20 years ago when yours truly started. Links of stuff I love is my post archive... and preferably some initital peaks into higher states, so that one already has seen the promised land. So have fun, enjoy the journey, become all the Renaissance-Man (male female diverse) -Nondual-Realizer ya can be, and Bon Voyage! Selling Water by the River PS: And mucho importante: Laughing over onself Ken Wilber wrote: “TRANSCENDENCE RESTORES HUMOR. Spirit restores humor. Suddenly smiling returns. Too many representatives of too many movements – even many very good movements, such as feminism, environmentalism, meditation, spiritual studies – seem to lack humor altogether. In other words, they lack lightness, they lack a distance from themselves, a distance from the ego and its grim game of forcing others to conform to its contours... They should all trade two pounds of ego for one ounce of laughter”(Ken Wilber. 1999. One Taste: The Journals of Ken Wilber. December 7).

Hi Davecraw, in the humble experience of yours truly, you can not rule out with logic if something else besides experience exists until certain Awakened States are realized that show the infinite and limitless nature of the Visual Field, and any other possible field/dimension (like the dimensionless opening/dimension in which subtle objects like thoughts arise). But: One can (and should) use logic to get to an agnostic level: NOTHING prooves that there is a material, external, self-existing world beyond the bubble of the visual field, beyond experiences. You can neither proove nor disproove that with logic. That is a fine point, because arguing WITH logic that only experience exists is one bridge too far. Can't be done. One would need to twist logic to proove that. Although certain very active gentlemens are giving it very extended tries at the moment. Prooving that only experience exists (and no self-existing external material world) can only be done with Awakened States that show the following properties of an Awakened Field of Awareness (below, the goal/outcome of Yoga of one Taste, stage 3 Mahamudra. One Taste = Nondual Union with the Infinite Field) any felt separation between "you" and the "external world" appearing in the visual field is vividly felt first as arising object of subject-object separation, a felt sensation, that then gradually disappears. Including all localization in the body (tension head, body-feelings that cause localization, and so on). Yoga of Illusory Body for example, there are discrete energetic practices to dissolve these contractions/localizations. Or just wait long enough in empty states.... so, union,"nondual" with the field. any "boundary" to anything limiting that visual field (or any other field) can only be an arising, an appearance. Not the boundless limitless infinite Nothingness. time, past and future is seen as mere concepts/ideas/arisings in the timeless Always Here Mind of Infinite Awakened Awareness/Infinite Consciousness. everything in the visual field is just appearance, "hovering" as pretty lucid display in mere Nothingness. -> mere apperance these states bring a lot of bliss and love It happens approximately in that order progressively with good meditation practice. Or, if you are lucky, all by itself (Karma,state). But then good luck telling anybody of the structure of the path to get there that one didn't even notice the path while one passed it, because they flew over it. Or: Ramana and all the other Wunderkinder/prodigies probably won't be able to tell you much details about the turns, wrong exits and scenic views on the road to Awakening, because they took the 747 to the destination. and the Zen and Theravada path tend also tend to not give a very detailed map (at least in the opinion of yours truly), but just a compass and say: go/meditate west, to the west is California & the Ocean. Mahamudra gives you a quite detailed map: Death Valley is here, you wanna go there, don't take the wrong exit, don't camp here, here are the gentlemen with bows&arrows, and so on... So, to get these states: (good efficient) meditation, or psychedelics. Then, counting together the awakenings above in bold letters, it becomes what is called in Mahamudra "boundless limitless timeless nondual loving Awakened Awareness". And THEN you can talk about "there is only experience, anywhere, everywhere", without needing to fool yourself with logic in the nature of your experience. And btw., that is not theory or wishful thinking, but my actual experience with a meditation system of Mahamudra (Tibetan Buddhism, "companion"-system of Dzogchen) described best in Pointing Out the Great Way, Daniel Brown , developing over quite some years. All of the above is the of and up to Yoga of One Taste (3. Stage Mahamdura). Ken Wilbers Diary Book has the titel "One Taste". The same One Taste of that practice, refering to it. One Taste: Daily Reflections on Integral Spirituality, Wilber. The outcome of Yoga of One Taste (3. Stage Mahamdura) gives one a shot (or many many, since many many are neede) to dissolve the last separate self-arisings remnants (the Yoga of Nonmeditation stage 4 Mahamudra), which then brings Full/Complete Enlightenment, in Leos terms God-Realization (although i find that term a bit bombastic, although technically precise if God is Ultimate EMPTY IMPERSONAL Infinite Reality) . Yoga of Nonmeditation dissolves the last remnants of a separate self moving in oneself/Infinite Reality, like awareness of being, awareness of self, any self-reflective arising of being anything. (hint: of= subject object, not full nondual. Still self-reflective thinking/identity creation). What remains is: Reality. The Totality. And zero separation, real Nonduality. Empty. Impersonal. Pure Infinite Consciousness. Staying as "always eternally here" Infinite Impersonal Nothingness. With Awareness as its essence. Yoga of Nonmeditation does this in that any meditation is so fully automized that there are no more separate self arisings doing the meditation to generate and stabilize the Awakened States of Yoga of One Taste, 3. Stage Mahamudra. Not that actually an illusion separate-self claims "Oh I am doing this nondual meditation so great". Would be a funny contradiction of Nothingness would be really pure impersonal Infinite Consciousness if something like that arises, hm? And that takes also a lot of time. Don't fry your brains too much trying to these maybe 500h-1000h+ with 5 MeO (depending of course on ones Karma/brain and body), because yours truly has never read/heard about a credible case where that has been done. Although they could exist. Volunteers for the fried brains, anybody? Joke: How do you spot a pioneer? Got a few fried brain cells arrows in the back. Just kidding. We do need that tested out. And how Psychedelic Paths combined with meditation systems above... Pure Mahamudra is too slow to have larger impact. Allthough still the best system (in the opinion of yours truly) of all of them, and then, good morning after waking up, game over, welcome home! And be nice to "enlighened persons", What is mostly being done with meditation and especially psychedelics, is dabbling around up to and around stage 3, Nonduality (Yoga of One Taste), with are more or less empty subject, up to a very empty witness already in union with then Nondual Infinite Field. "Having" Awakenings. With any kind of content: This World, Aliens, the management & staff running this Universe, other Dimensions, whatever ones heart delights in. An Infinity (literally) of stuff to explore... What is not so often talked about is the "suicide" of stage 4, Nonmeditation Yoga, Full Enlightenment. Getting fully Impersonal with transcending/killing each and every separate-self arising having all these lovely nondual experiences/awakenings. No Aliens required, but still possibly quite a bit scary for sure. But looks only scary from before the Gateless Gate. Any separate self arising (the enlightened or awake "person" having these awakenings, n+1) raising its ugly head, are seen as just more separate-self-contractions buzzing in Ones True Self. Another annoying little headache-bug to laugh about. Another moskito buzzing around in the Infinite Reality that one then realizes onself to be and ever having been, to squatt/Trekchö. One more contraction to let go and transcend. and one lucky day, one just wakes up. But death is death, transcendence is death, even if its only the death of an Illusion. And Maya needs her tools, like the Wizard of Oz, else everbody would just say bye bye to the game. [Disclaimer: In nearly all cases, real suicide is about the most stupid thing one can do. Back to square 1, more Karma added on top. Or how to continue the dream, dodging out ones Karma of this life, with additional Karma on top from hitting the reset-button. But no soul gets lost, just do 3rd grade again, with a headache-hangover from the last try. Finally, every soul graduates college. But some like school so much that they don't listen to most teachers, and do some classes over and over again]. So, have fun on the trip, don't fry your brains, keep your humor (Wilber, Transcendence restors humor), squatt all separate self bugs, and Bon Voyage! Selling Water by the River Ken Wilber wrote: “TRANSCENDENCE RESTORES HUMOR. Spirit restores humor. Suddenly smiling returns. Too many representatives of too many movements – even many very good movements, such as feminism, environmentalism, meditation, spiritual studies – seem to lack humor altogether. In other words, they lack lightness, they lack a distance from themselves, a distance from the ego and its grim game of forcing others to conform to its contours... They should all trade two pounds of ego for one ounce of laughter”(Ken Wilber. 1999. One Taste: The Journals of Ken Wilber. December 7). PS: And for all other beings/perspectives of Indras Net, see: and if you don't already have an overkill, and better go for nice walk or so... Some more for the Aficionados of conceptual overkill: And now, really better go fishing or something... “frog pond plop”