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I had to pass around 1 year of agony and confusion to a depression like level, suicidal feelings, and unworthy existence. The same pain you can identify in the body, that is your guide, the numbness in a limb per example or a gnot in the plexus or a high pressure in the skull in the right side. Dwelve into that pain, into that confusion, into that agony, into that numbness, don't be afraid to be lost, there is only bliss behind.

@Nadosa Perhaps. Yet perhaps it is only as difficult as you make it out to be. Regardless the outcome is well worth it. Every human being has the god given right to live a life of bliss.

Then why complain about the depression and the sadness? After all, these fleeting states amount to the excitement and drama of life. Give it a try. What you call boring might end up being bliss instead.

For who do all those thoughts/emotions/feelings arise? Who is the subject? Saying that "I seem to be stuck..." amounts to saying that I am a thought, which in case "thinks" accepting reality seems unfair. Being stuck in the egotistic paradigm is what causes you to not realize your enlightenment. The word "I" and believing to be this "I" is what creates duality in the first place. Realize this and all worries disappear in a blink of an eye, and is replaced by bliss.

The Self's very nature is what I'm talking about. The Self's nature is to know itself nondually. That's what it is to be Self. No, I don't think it's a great analogy, but not for reasons I can explain. I get the sense you are trying hard to intellectualize the realization. Your mind is working overtime to try to conquer this problem, to digest it, to "know" it. Not gonna happen. Thinking and the mind must, in the end, be given up to see the Truth. Yes, it is bliss, yes, I am aware of it all at times -- but it is not the bliss that you think of when you think of mental bliss. It is not mental bliss. Mental bliss exists in contrast: "I wasn't blissful, then I did this (say, self-inquiry), then I was blissful." That's mental bliss, the bliss that comes and goes. That's not what I'm talking about. The bliss I'm talking about has never stopped. The mind is not aware of it at all times. I am, though, but not in a mental (that is, dualistic) way. When you realize that the very idea of forgetting the Self doesn't even make sense... that's Enlightenment. Look, we could say that the mind is still active, that the enlightened person also has vasanas that arise. In one sense that is true. In a deeper sense, however, it is not, since the enlightened person does not acknowledge the reality -- or even the appearance -- of the mind. Yes, this sounds correct. Good work. Keep going. Just to be clear, I wouldn't describe it as looking for your consciousness but as looking for the "I." It's a small difference, and they are very related, but I would emphasize the "I." "Here's what I'm doing," you write. Who is this "I" who knows what he's doing? You're already enlightened, so it doesn't matter. But that stream of me thoughts may seem to be quite unnecessarily unhappy. I don't know, sorry. As far as I am concerned these are not related to enlightenment.

When a human being enters the journey of self-discovery it is a very painful process, due to the re-routing of the physical an emotional processes that lead to genuine awakening. Remember! No Pain, No Gain. Those who deluded themselves of a pleasurable journey are stuck in their heads. Only in pain, one encounters the bliss.

Is this ''non-objective experience'' bliss itself? Are you aware of 'it' all your waking hours? This really resonates with me. Everytime I've had lightbulb moments through self-inquiry, it always felt blissful...for absolutely no reason at all. It wasn't an experience, there was really nothing special going on. The first thought that arises is, ''oh crap! this is soo obvious. How come I ever missed it? How can I ever loose this?'' But then again, this 'stateless state' would eventually be forgotten due latent mental tendencies/Vasanas/thoughts. When you never forget that Self no matter what, is that permanent Enlightenment?

@Serotoninluvif I find some psychedelics to be in my reach I will be happy to jump on board However just the one has led to some radical realizations @Jack Riverunderstand ?? you spoke of distinctions ending and this was in no self while you were out on the water? Was their sounds? You make it sound like a trance. The first memory I have of no self I was literally gliding around in total bliss ? complete oneness being awareness

I appreciate your thoughts but I disagree. I'm not particularly interested in getting into a debate about it, though. Thanks, but the truth it doesn't really matter all that much one way or the other in the end. There is a direct experience of the Truth that is more important than the theories. 1. Whether there is pain depends upon your context. There may appear that there is, but there is not, actually. This can only be understood when you know your true nature yourself. 2. No, enlightenment is a matter of piercing the illusion of personal identity. The best way is Ramana Maharshi's self-inquiry combined with other practices to quiet the mind. There's no real use trying to understand the enlightened state beforehand, except to know that it is pure truth and bliss. It is beyond words and concepts, actually, and best not to weigh yourself down with expectations. You cannot fully surrender on your own. You can only partially surrender -- that's the most you can do. What that means is that you accept whatever happens -- both in the outside world, and in terms of your thoughts and emotions. Let it go. Let it all go. Let decisions go. Let pain go. Let the need to change things go. Or if you feel that need, let that go. Whatever you do, think, or feel, let it go, let it go, let it go. Whatever pain you experience, let it go. Whatever desire you have, let it go. If you feel like you cannot let it go, let that feeling go too. That is the continuous effort of surrender. This will turn into full surrender but you cannot control when that happens. The other possibility is to practice Ramana Maharshi's self-inquiry at all waking moments, which will automatically turn into full surrender at a certain point.

Hi, guys. Heads up. This is a post about sinking into the meaninglessness of everything, and I will include my own experience as well as many of us. I had problems sleeping most of my life. Most of us have been lying awake in a deep hole, thinking about the world. The meaning. Death. Will I be in an endless black void after my death, until the universe collapse? Infinite darkness. For us who have have these "haunted" (blessed) thoughts know how anxiety, depression and stress works and feels, and how much "muddy" water we have in our cup. How insanely intelligent you are. It`s "rude" to even try project any vocabular on it. My/Our thoughts have been fixated on these issues, for most of my life. Always there. Whenever I was still, I got into this. Twisting the beliefs of atoms as fundemental blocks, only to hear about newer and newer discoveries. String. Void. Now here is where the frustration really went big. What the fuck is this made out of? Who or what "wrote" the laws?! It simply can not be this. Science is explaining all of it, by theory (lol), and no matter how much the paradigm invent, they still was relaxed about the idea of Big Bang. This was just kinda waved over to the side, agreed upon and back to sleep. Cracks me up. We know all about the mechanics, but the blueprint was left murky. Late 2017 we had come this far in science, but scientists had only 5 possible theories to what consciousness is. This brings my palm to my forhead. One year ago I gave up my life. I guess most of us experienced this beautiful moment. I quit geology, quit bodybuilding, quit surfing, and gave up my image. I could not see any meaning anymore. I did my first open eyes meditation in a pool, where after about 2 mins my mind exploded in an instant. "I came back" to myself, looking around at everything in great fear and confusion. I saw the fundemental ego, just like that. Boom, there it was. Of course I got sick, and had to go home, where I did not recognize my appartement. Two weeks of insanity came, where I fell over Alan Watts and Leo. I can not describe how thankful I am for these two sources. Thank you, of all my heart. The words are pathetic to my authentic feeling of love and appreciation. Now, I did live about 6-7 months in pure bliss. "Realising" I am infinite and can`t die. Which funny enough makes so god damn sense, it´s amazing. Some months ago I contemplated on "What is meaning?" for 9 days, 45 minutes each session, and got results. But only a vast intellectual understanding. The feeling of it came one month ago. Now, whatever I want to do I can feel the meaninglessness of it and I give up. Even before I start. I can feel the meaninglessness in objects, thoughts, actually also in family and friends. In life. Whatever meaning there is I have to consciously create it, out of nothing. I am now in a state of smoking weed, playing computer, and not doing anything to get anywhere. Just little me, isolated in my apartement, looking out of the window in awe of it all, but can`t find any meaning. It is a full on helplessness state. And a week ago I honestly felt the bottom of it. I was starved, high as fuck, in my goodie chair and staring at the wall. "This is it". "The bottom". The knowledge of thoughts and ego told me in this moment, that whatever i was saying it was bullshit, but the feeling was very real. I also know "if I am observing it, by definition it is not me", so I also can see that my feelings are also a false "bip" on the radar. But I believe that the subtleness of my mind led me to listen to it anyway. And solidify the thoughts and feelings as "cause and effect", to increase the illusion of time. I have been throught the "Arising and passing away" 3 times before I even tried to meditate, only to discover the feelings of sensations arising moment to moment in Vipassana 1 hour over one month. This became clear, that I am made up of flickers. Which again is content, so this rests kindly back there. Why? Why am I even asking this. I am here cause I asked for it. Whatever happens to me, whatever situation that unfolds, I know it´s due to my subconscious mind, and it wants this. Same with you. I know that I am the creater of my life, and whatever comes it comes. Cause consciousness. It is the most beautiful intersubjective unity, like cells i a vain or networks of streams to combine the similarity to a vain, to create continuity out of singular instant thoughts (I have had the experience of "seing" my thoughts "in my mind" at a distance from me, and it was like a machine gun spitting out singular pictures from what looked like a solid black rock, to create a movie, which blew my mind). How am I to project meaning, if the fundemental projecting is by definition meaninglessness? By fundementally sink into the fact that things just last for an instant, it is not me and I will never ever get satisfied; tells me that whatever is going on I am literally full of shit. Whatever I say or do, I am full of it. How can I create meaning, when there is no fundemental meaning in the first place? Everything is just quiet. And yet everything happens. Where do I go if I already have arrived? This is a post only to be read and answered if you are in the same boat, have experienced it already and came through or if you can identify subjectively with the ongoing "mitote". How do I get on the wave, if the wave is not there. How do i calm the pond from ripples, if there is no pond. How do I clear the sky, when there is fundamentally no sky. If you don`t answer, this will be looked upon positively. Best regards, Christer <3

I believe that every single living being is entitled to everything they need for everlasting bliss. When it comes to human beings, there exist models and theories which outline the needs that all human beings must get met in order to live the longest and happiest life possible. One of these models/theories is Maslow's hierarchy of needs pyramid.

I doubt the Ananda part. At least i can't feel it. That existence and consciousness are essentially the same thing, makes totally sense to me. I literally can see it. But the bliss part is absolutely missing for me.

Love is so powerful, you could experience eternity passing by so smoothly, so easily, in the blink of an eye, in the bliss of the moment Love is magical, feeling the hundreds of butterflies fluttering in your stomach, feeling the support from people far away from

"Ultimate Truth is Wordless. The Silence within the Silence" "Darkness within darkness the gateway to all understanding" "Silence is truth. Silence is bliss. Silence is peace. And hence silence is the self." There's so many beautiful quotes, for the direct path. I think the problem is most people just don't like the silence and dont want to melt into it, ego death is also very scary in the silence and can bring out existential fears.

I see that spiritual seekers negate physical processes and other perceptions linked together with intelligence. An advanced teaching includes it. In fact we know how awakening looks like in the brain and the reasons for bliss. What we don't know how the body and perceptions come to be in Atman (or how Atman comes to be in the body). If ever we do, if we judge consciousness to be primary and not matter, then the brain is a receiver. It's a glass half-full, half-empty thing.

If Ramana Maharshi was a kid in a western world in the 21st century, his path wouldn’t be as direct and wouldn’t have had the results he had. Ramana Maharshi was a raised in a very different environment and culture. Yeah he did absolutely nothing. He sat in a temple for days and weeks with little to no food where rats ate into his thighs and he sat there in bliss. Didn’t need to do anything. Can you do that? Probably not. You don’t appreciate the depth of the problem and the deeper of a hole people western countries are in spiritually in terms of how much harder and longer I t can be for them to get enlightened. This is a self deception from lack of seeing the greater context of Ramana Maharshi’s time and setting.

I am still a noob on the path to some degree, but after 7 years of pretty consistent practice, quite a bit of psy use, and the last few years of obsessive practice. I can't help but to think how I feel like the destruction of 'separate self' is a bit of a sham, dishonest. - Yes can have conscious complete dissolution in meditation, in sleep states, etc. And you can experience deep empty-ness/freedom when functioning in a body-mind as well. And I don't know how far that goes.. But afaik, as long as you are functioning through a body-mind, you will experience yourself as separate to some degree. You are only the full substratum in these glimpses. If you were it out of those glimpses, I don't see how you could function or even experience life. Nor what would the point of it be? Wouldn't it make more sense to be able to transcend it, rest, know, and then go into your life again? (I guess from a POV of disliking yourself/life, that that would seem desirable, but hating one's life, albeit popular on earth, isn't some standard or built-in state (it can really seem as if it's all negative, if that's your state of mind, it can distort the whole universe, I've had many times where when I was feeling good again, that I've been: 'oh wow, it's actually really possible to feel good', it totally seemed impossible at times, I know)). - So anyways, as long as you have relative functioning.. You can have relative joys and pains: when someone leaves, when someone comes, when someone likes what you do, when someone dislikes what you do. (And yeah, pain doesn't have to be as painful as we often think, can be beautiful even, and masters aren't beyond this, I've noticed myself, and that's only normal, and some speak about it openly, like David Spero.) And to know that Peace/Self-Opening can never leave you, that you are also inherently untouched, that is of course a world of difference, and sometimes you may be even so high it doesn't matter at all. Though I think to strive to be beyond emotions all together is a trap. Same with striving to be in a state of constant 'bliss', love can hurt as well, it's just part of it, good times, bad times, or good times, challenging times). So I would say, don't go around, thinking you are not enlightened if you get hurt (nor think you are enlightened..) or that you need more 'fixing'. Though we can also use our pain to know more of our nature of freedom and grow, certainly.

@Leo Gura Was Ramana Maharshi a developed human being from your understanding Leo? Even though he didn’t know about the stages of development, he is stage turquoise. And he lived his life in meditation, surrendered to the will of God in a state of complete bliss, from the age of 16. There is no improvement to be done there on top of utter perfection. There isn’t even such a thing as development when it is all subjective. There is no more developed or less developed. There is just the Self. I haven’t seen the Self so I’m really talking out of my breadth. In meditation there is bliss for a few minutes, and there I see that this is all I ever wanted. So I say no more until I am more mature and developed in this way. I could be wrong about all of this. It’s nice to share perspectives with you. @Rilles We can’t stop action because that’s the nature of the universe, it creates through us, with us, and all around in infinite directions and depths.

@Leo Gura How can you develop something that is absolutely perfect? The Self is this. How can the question of development arise when we experience this divine love or steady stream of bliss within ourselves in each moment? Paradoxically I’ve experienced dozens of times that development will happen when we live in this state of perfection faster than ever before because there is no more fear holding us back from change, and massive growth Also it is worth contemplating, who is the one developing? This implies that there is an “I”, a doer. This is why I say and the sages and Jesus, find the Self first, and all else will be shown, all questions will be answered. Most importantly we find Happiness. The mind then falls silent, because the only reason it wanted to develop itself (had a need to or desire) was to find happiness.

When I do SDS I get lots of pain and suffering and if I'm able to go long enough it turns into bliss and then cycles of pain and bliss. If you do a really long SDS you are pretty much guaranteed to feel bliss at some point

@How to be wise It’s the best possible scenario. Absolute bliss. It’s the unknown you’re fearing, not death.

I can resonate. When I first began practicing yoga it was quite the challenge of course because I had so much built up trauma stored in my body that it caused me to have deep emotional/physical reactions in which I had to overcome. Trembling, rapid breathing, slideshows of random uninvited memories. Such things like EMDR and inner child meditations, conquering the Shadow of my childhood also created similar experiences like this, but which ultimately felt like I was unraveling into cathartic bliss.

@StardewValley You are failing to see that you are NOT supposed to be in pain. Just because most of people experience pain, not fall into ''I am supposed to''. No, there is no supposed to look or feel anything during meditation. Just go with it. If you are experiencing bliss or balance (back pain + bliss elsewhere) I would suggest to keep the going, observing the pain - bliss sensation, and Keep going and going and going to start seeing the 'bottom' of it.

@Leo Gura Just seeing your elaborated response now. My very first trip was more enlightening and pleasant than any other. It was during a time where I meditated way more often than I do now and I did it with intent to elevate. I had a very profound experience from it. I forgot most of it because it was years ago but I remember feeling pure bliss and experiencing fractals, and what not. The other two where great also but this one was not only a mind fuck it scared the shit out of me. This really turns me off from it psychedelics. Who wants to be go through this? If its like my first trip where its all bliss I'm all for it but this was sheer terror. Having your mind blown is cool and all but i want it accompanied by the agape love I felt the first time and not this shit lol Thanks for the insight Leo. Really appreciate it.

I originally took LSD because the idea of seeing visuals other than what I usually see was amazing. The experience itself ended up being just as amazing if not more. Then I continued to take it for fun. I was in many psychedelic FB groups in which they spoke about things that sounded like wo woo stuff to me as I was a hard materialist logical atheist. I didn't understand and the only response I got was to take more psychedelics. On 1mg of LSD I had the realization all is one. It came into my head like a lightbulb clicking. It was so obvious. I was in a state of perfect bliss. But that was on my come down. The come up and peak I was in a state locked on the floor sweating and seeing shit I can't even comprehend. I didn't think much of it. Continued to do LSD for fun and then after experimenting with DXM I did LSD+DXM and had my first major enlightenment where everything clicked and thats when my past insight clicked as well. My friend showed me Leo's video on the magnitude of reality because at the time reality just working amazed the fuck out of me. This trip marked my path towards higher states of consciousness. Now I technically do psychedelics for both fun and insights, but I find the most insights occur when I am not pursuing insights and just fun.