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@Preetom Very true. And nihilism is one way you can fuck up your experience, as you say. Got to say that bliss is highly addictive. You don' want to go back from it.

@Neorez Huh. I'll look into it, thanks. Btw regarding nihilism. Nihilism is when you make detachment into a philosophy as far as I see it. It serves no purpose and depresses you needlessly. The actual experience of the Self is peace and then bliss. You can think of it this way: God has literally designed your body to be naturally be able to uphold a tremendous amount of endless happiness. Then why believe that the world is depressing? As someone who has experienced depression himself by believing in nihilism, i can only recommend you to do more self-inquiry and work that reveals your God nature. Once you get a taste of bliss, there is no way you could even begin to believe in nihilism.

Daddy Mckenna says it like it is. Whoever honestly looked at the right places, it wasn't peace, bliss, love and all that heart crap. This is how boring, flavorless, pointless and scary the Truth sounds when translated through the language of self-agenda. No wonder ego is constantly running after everything BUT the Truth.

@Schahin Yes. The process of natural evolution is still occurring. Evolution and constant change is a very palpable aspect of consciousness itself. People say that Consciousness, bindingness and bliss are the absolute experience of God. But I'd say that at many levels, change and evolution are in effect.

Always wondered (sorry if too ‘adult’ language) if people are subconsciously aware that their sensation of orgasm is bliss ‘ Godlike...and so they just dub it “coming” (as in going toward God). That word applied to that sensation otherwise just makes no sense. Nobody’s about to pop and yells to someone in the next room, like, hang on “I’m coming”. Gettin up and going somewhere is pretty much the last thing they’re about to do, you know? (Hence all the “oh my God” verbiage preceding)

1.75g is a light to moderate dose. Based on what you wrote, you seem to be interested in using psychedelics for personal development (to discover and work through subconscious fears. Especially for your initial time, I would not get close to ego death. It can be very insightful, yet also very destabilizing. And the sub ego death zone can induce anxiety and distraction. I wouldn’t go higher than 1.75g and would consider a bit lower so you still feel grounded during the trip and it is a positive experience. And a light dose is much easier to integrate into sober life. I had a similiar intention when I first used psychedelics - to discover subconscious fears. Ime I would suggest a couple things. First, I would reorient the mind so it is not so self seeking oriented. I’m hearing a self that mushrooms are a tool to get what the self wants - to remove subconscious fears. I could get away with that mindset at lower doses, yet not at moderate or high doses. Here, I would reframe the intention as a humble request that subconscious fears be revealed. I would not approach ego death with any type of agenda. If one goes into that zone with a mindset that they are in control and are using shrooms as a tool, it will likely be a rough ride. When the self dissolves, nonduality doesn’t care about the self. There is no separate self to care about. Yet at 1.75 you would likely be below this zone. Second, I would plan to trip three times on this intention. The first time on a low dose then higher if needed. Trips can be very different based on dose, mindset and setting. The deep insight might not come in the first trip. You may be in bliss the whole or throwing up or staring at something for an hour. If you do three trips, the odds of having one with deep insights is pretty good. As well, the theme of each trip will likely be different. You may be shown the nature of fear from three different perspectives which may give a more complete experience and understanding.

Stop thinking of it as a death. Do you want to kill your ego or experience bliss? Go towards the thing that feels better in meditation.

Got up at : 13:00 Days in a row with morning routine : 0 Number of women approached : 18 Total infield time : 12 hours Total meditation time : 13h40 Speeches given : 2 Books read : 0 Currently reading : Stealing Fire - Steven Kotler et. al. Days without smoking : 64 alcohol : 1 caffeine except tea : 1 TV : 0 grains : 12 sugar : 2 dairy : 18 Porn & Peak Orgasm : 0 This is going to be an unstructured rant. I'm feeling extremely sleepy, excited, horny and unfocused. Last night the girl who I was so enthusiastic about three weeks ago came over again, and we had an amazing time. She's so spontaneous and I like her a lot. I just want to fuck her all night and feed her strawberries. I was a little worried that I wouldn't be able to hold conversation well, because of quitting caffeine that day, but that worry disappeared quickly when I felt how much energy I'm getting from talking to her! The green tea may have helped too. I will quickly describe the state I'm in. My focus is completely shot. Has been all week. I compulsively check Tinder during everything I do. Even in the middle of thoughts. Or reading a book. Or working out. It's gotten really bad. I've been with 3 amazing women this week. It's brought me a lot of bliss and contentment, but also cost me quite some sleep and health (drinking). And I'm still craving more, more, more!! Automatically, compulsively swiping girls on Tinder, getting their numbers, trying to set dates. For last night I even had a backup girl. The only reason I have time to write this now is because my date for today cancelled. And I'm still so. Fucking. Horny. So one thing is clear: if my dick got its way, I would get nothing done at work, would get nothing done on my own projects, and would live in a constant daze of dating girl after girl. While my life falls apart. And I'm not even sure I would care. Okay of course I care, but there's something about getting laid that really takes away a lot of motivation for other things. Like your lizard brain is saying: "keep doing what you're doing, bro! Don't change a thing!" I need to become the master of my own dick. It occurred to me that dating women has simply replaced watching TV series as a pleasurable distraction that I can lose myself in endlessly to get away from my responsibilities and grown up plans and life purpose. I found a new addiction. Okay and I think it's a lot better than being a TV addict. But it's still addiction. I value the richness and color it brings to my life. But it doesn't bring me much else. On the contrary, It takes away motivation to change It costs me a lot of time It costs me a lot of focus (addicted to phone) It costs me a lot of sleep It makes me feel so good that I don't even care if I would smoke or drink. So, in conclusion, It feels like a good idea to spend a lot of time being a manwhore, but my feelings are wrong. More things are falling apart. I did go to the gym 3 times this weekend, but halfheartedly and I skipped a lot of exercises. I am trying out high intensity training as a timesaver, but I freakin' hate it. Probably won't keep that. Haven't done two days with morning routine in a row in a while. This is quite terrible. I would feel bad and guilty about it but my brain is being hijacked by evolution. I'll drag myself out of this hedonistic stupor guys. Gimme a sec.

Gonna journal this whilst it's fresh af in my experience. Currently sat in Costa in the Trafford centre walking around in what feels like a massive infinite boundless bubble.... Okay so just finished the coaoa and shamanic drumming workshop/ceremony. It was a beautiful journey from beginning to end. In the beginning we had to go round the circle and say your name and explain why you came to this event. My answer was. "I have no idea why I'm here but maybe I'll find out." After opening the space with drumming and chakra mantra meditation we all went up to receive our ceremonial grade cocoa deva. We lay down as comfortable as poss and people started their inner journey. I was lay there thinking... The fuck is going on? fuck all is happening, this is shit. I lay there observing my thoughts about other people's journeys and what was going on with them in that moment. Then it hit me. The reason I was here was to just be. Just be still. Be quite. This time it wasn't about an inward journey, this time it was about realising there is no fucking inward journey (fundamentally) and to just be! Game changing insight.... absolute game changer. Experience and experiencer ceased to exist. I lay there in complete bliss for god knows how long. After it finished we all sat up and it felt like I loved everyone. I was connected to everybody. Everyone was me and I was everybody. The more I go to these workshops the more truth prevails. Showing my deepest gratitude for such a beautiful day ❤️

@CreamCat You can have pathologies at each stage. That is why shadow work is important. Although you have a center of gravity at a stage and are centered at 50% of that stage 25% below and 25% above. This is also how you will respond to other humans. The whole spiral is always accessed. Even if you transcend into a higher realm of the psychic, subtle, casual or non-dual stages (Third tier). One has to move down in order to function as long as a body exists. You can have state stages! Which are different from structure stages. For instance, the Vietnamese monks who burned themselves achieve a state stage where they feel absolute bliss. These are called absorptions as far as I know Jhanas. And therefore "transcend" the human body, they still die. This whole thing is still a mystery to me. So, they can both be a living concrete... experience as well as a glimpse into the nature of a state, the so-called state stages. Structures according to Wilber can't be observed since they are like grammar, inherently visceral in one's flesh and bones. Yet, I am going to create a concept one lays out these language patterns or aspects... and then has the ability to observe them. Like using had involved past perfect and now we know that past perfect which is the "completed" past involves these words, rules, structure, grammar, "syntax". States are experiences one can dive into, yet structures are .. like a state of mind that is unconscious, till the second tier is accessed and the periphery of what one usually experiences is being expanded since the whole spiral is first visible at second tier which is yellow. There needs to be a drawn out map or structure in order to relate that there is a structure or to better understand it, that is my point. Looking at the quadrants could help you to understand the theory better. For instance, I could say that the tourquise level of the upper right quadrant which focuses on exterior development of the I, body parts, brain, stomach, guts etc. Is the hypothalamus. Wilber differentiated all of this to draw conclusions and to present a holarchy. A mixture of heterarchy and hierarchy. Spiral dynamics is still focused on values. Shadow work also never ends as long as biology exists according to Wilber. Some drives are inherently biological and sometimes people are unaware of that.

So yesterday I woke up next to one girl, had sex with her, and that night slept with the other girl. I am on peak orgasm again, so this is making me feel quite empty. I'm painfully aware now that sex is not as big a deal as I thought it was. And how my unsatisfied cravings have festered and made it seem so all-important and worth striving for. I'm reading my vision statement, and half of it is about striving for abundance in sexual options, becoming better at picking up girls, living in a sex-positive commune even. All good things, but written from the perspective that having sex is a good way to spend almost all my time. It's a classic case of the excessive fantasies that arise from a craving before it is satisfied. Hungry, at a buffet: I'm going to eat SO MUCH of EVERY kind of this food! A little later: nope, full. Horny, watching porn: This is so good, I'm going to fap 4 times to this! One fap later: nah, that's enough of that. Poor as a student: I want to strive all my life to be FILTHY RICH!! Me, until a few days ago: Sex is so awesome that I want to dedicate a huge chunk of time to meeting and fucking as many girls as I can! Two fucks later: hmm, cravings are gone, what else could I be doing? These are my expectations: After the initial excitement, I will feel exactly the same when there's 10 girls in my rotation instead of 2. After the initial excitement, I will feel exactly the same when theres a million in my bank account instead of a thousand. After the initial excitement, I will feel exactly the same when all my time is free time instead of only 70% of it. I'm a pretty happy guy these days, and there is no 'extra' permanent happiness to be gained from achievements. I don't want to become a pleasure rat, just putting his dick in and out warm holes because it's his only source of bliss. Money and sex seem to be worth striving for having enough that the lack of it doesn't distract you from your purpose, and once you have that, it becomes an empty pursuit and it's best not to chase it further. I'm thinking about bankers working themselves to death. About CEO's of huge enterprises that they built themselves, who continue to expand it even though they would be better served spending less time on it and more on being with their family, or spirituality / just being. At some point people apparently forget that their pursuit started to fulfill a need, and now that the original need is gone they confuse their pursuit with meaning. Get a bit of wealth? Great! Hmm, but now I feel the same. Get MORE wealth, that'll do it for me! Then I can feel like I am spending my time well, and basically only then can I have permission to feel good for eternity. Studies have shown that regular cocaine users get their dopamine rush right before they snort it. In other words, the pleasure is in the anticipation, it's not even because of the drug anymore. Just like lifelong gamblers are addicted to anticipation. It feels good the first couple times, and then you get addicted to the anticipation of how good you think you will feel. Which doesn't pan out. I expect you can addict yourself to making money like that. Oh and I also noticed that fucking a hot girl is nowhere near as good as the anticipation of it. There are blissful moments, sure, but if I'm honest, I can feel just as good masturbating and fantasizing. So how frequently do I want to have sex for it to be enough? No idea. Probably best to just get good at pickup, so I can go meet a woman whenever I feel that it's time. And then I don't have to worry about it anymore. The lack of pickup skills won't distract me anymore. That's valuable, I think. I feel a desire to spend more time on concentration exercises and meditation.

It is what is when you inquire look deeply into who you are. I could call it pure being, being-consciousness-bliss, that which is beyond all dualities. There are many words for it, but all of them are ultimately inaccurate. What exactly do you mean by that question? There are many things I could say in response: it's a koan, which, if you reflect on it, will lead you to enlightenment; it's meaningless, because all language is meaningless; it means there is knowledge here for those who seek it; that this mind no longer considers itself to be a separate entity; that I don't exist; that all of us are enlightened and therefore so am I. All of them and none of them are true.

You are on the good path. Maybe you feel those parts of the body that you have not used before. So lower back pain or general tightness, not knowing what to do, etc. Maybe is time to let go, relax, meditate until bliss arises. Doctors are not trained beyond reductionism. So in other words this is how the unknown feels, depression, desperation. Use good foods to heal faster. If you really brave to awaken, you have to conquer the nightmare, and the nightmare is very big, is interconnected with all humanity's subconscious. Those feelings usually, the majority are not yours. GG

Good deeds are the opposite of bad deeds. Love is the opposite of hate. Bliss is the opposite emotional pain. So why are these promoted in spiritual path? Why are called as aspects of enlightenment? How does being moral contribute to spiritual path?

Yes I plan to start off with a mini dose. The insanity zone isn’t all that bad especially if you’ve gotten rid of religious beliefs...because having those and losing touch with reality can be a very scary experience ?. Also it naturally happens as a defense mechanism when under severe stress for too long and when I say defense I mean the mind has pleasant beliefs that are irrational to the average person to stop the pain and instead experience bliss... I’m actually excited to witness another reality and think my beliefs are primed to experience ‘truth’. I’m also looking forward to coming back and reflecting. There’s very little if not nothing.. I can’t handle and overcome ?

@winterknight Yes, you are absolutely correct. Through experience of surrender and it fucking up my life the surrender couldn't continue. I have no desire to be in that space. It doesn't work for my family. How the hell can you get around that? If you can honestly tell me that there can be surrender with functionality that doesn't require a nanny and personal assistant, I'd happily go there. Can you? I'm a 40 yo single woman BTW. Two young kids. Falling apart needs space, IMO, that I don't have. It feels like I've gone as far as I can within the framework of my current life situation. I have changed that situation as much as I can. Any more would involve ditching the kids and moving interstate. Um, no. Please understand that I do know what living in that space feels like. Really. It is everything that you describe. Just beautiful still space where the sense of 'I' was. Where a different type of thinking happens. Life just happens. This has been part of my reality on and off for a while (not on drugs). It just pisses off my family. There is nothing wrong with living more in 3D. It just is. When I say 3D, my reality isn't anything like what it was. There is still a strong experience of the world being illusiory/non-dual, there is very minimal suffering, and 90% of the time there is bountiful joy and bliss. Sometimes there is desire to go deeper, so I do. This model is realistic in a western world. As far as I'm aware yours is not necessarily, but feel free to educate me. BTW, a few very good teachers of mine have agreed on escapism. Life is subjective. I can agree and disagree with everything you say, it's more a matter of is it helpful.

Yes I have followed the links but they don't really reveal much about you, which is what I'm interested in: learning more about you. That's if you don't mind. I have heard and learned a lot about enlightenment , but not much on it's effect on the average person. I've heard about the eternal state of bliss or the end of suffering, merging with the very fabric of reality, becoming infinite, awakening from our 'dream state' and on and... But then at this moment in time I don't feel like I want to stop any suffering or confusion or experiencing what people tend to refer to as ego death and all of that. I'm quite satisfied with the way things are right now. But I am interested in the effects, in terms of how you go about your daily life and see the world. Which brings me to this second question: What are your ingredients of identifying that you'd consider true? You say "Truth cannot be an object of awareness.", what 'tool/tools' did you use to draw this conclusion.

@cetus56 Yes, it's great news. And the right thing to do. For a lot of sages, sitting with the self, immersed in the bliss and silence is the way to go, no matter how much they might fight that outcome at first - this is something that Leo's mind does. We only know of the few sages who have large followings, but in truth there are numerous others who are hermits. I predict to see less and less of Leo as he reconciles his frantic mind with his enlightenment.

I don't understand what enlightenment is. How can I search for something if I don't know what it is that I am searching for? I have had peak experiences, or deep insights accompanied with a sense of relief through my insight, but I don't feel like I've come to know what enlightenment or an "enlightenment experience" is. I can label any experiences or insights I have as such, but how do I know that I am simply not befooling myself? Is enlightenment an experience or an attitude? Is it a feeling of whatever kind —peace, joy, bliss— or more an attitude TOWARDS what you are experiencing. In fact, how do draw the boundary line between a feeling and attitude? We can speak of a "peaceful attitude", but that translates in the end in an experience of peace of the feeling of peace. Peak experiences, and thus feelings, I can only intellectually understand as something tied to duality, so it can not be the real thing, I would assume. But this is merely an assumption so this could be wrong. If an attitude would translate into a feeling, as I can define no clear boundary lines, then what else could I be searching for in enlightenment but to feel good? I thought for some time that I was searching for an attitude, but I feel like that makes no sense now. I can not understand my search for enlightenment to be anything other than to feel good, in some way or another. Is this what I'm supposed to search for, and is this what I'm supposed to find? If it were to be some sort of feeling, is that which I would find as a feeling something that is beyond dualities? Something that does not return to its opposite? Then how would I have known if I have found it? And if it were not to be some sort of feeling, then what is it truly worth? Is enlightenment something that I can conceptualize even as the vaguest pointer in the almost complete dark? Or is it simply a mystery until it hits you? Are all my attempts to understand or conceptualize it with my mind to complete, utter lack of avail? In fact, does enlightenment even exist? Am I made to believe in a lie? Why should I even believe that it exists? Just because spiritual teachers tell me so? Just because spiritual seekers agree that it exists? I have no true evidence, so why should I believe? And even more fundamental than that: WHAT am I supposed to believe, or disbelief, or neither believe or disbelief? The only thing I can imagine myself doing is to search something for which would make me feel good. I will try. Not necessarily by conscious choice but I know I will anyway. Because if it were not a feeling I was looking for, then what the hell am I supposed to be searching for? Or what am I supposed to find? What will anything other than a good feeling be worth?

I want to be free - free from searching and wanting, free from the illusion of separation, free from feelings of loneliness and not being enough, free from the feeling of lacking something anything what happens when all of that falls of? utter, utter relaxation and relief, floating in space, dissolving into air and bliss just being, formless and light, free from the heavy burden of wanting and searching that's what I'm looking for. that itself is the obstacle. catch 22, what irony^^ at least I'm becoming aware of it

This is one of the pitfalls with many teachers as well as people who listen to them. Taking states of consciousness for Truth/the self. Just because they are abiding doesn't make them any less of a state. If you used to not be in it, it is a state. This goes for all types of bliss, as well as emptiness. The mere fact that different teachers and gurus are not in the same state. Some experience just emptiness. Some experience bliss and emptiness. Some experience God. And with different depth/clarity. They don't use different terms just because of their personality or emphasis, they use different terms because they don't experience the same thing. An experience or state being subtle or incomprehensible, impossible to put into words and explain to someone doesn't make it "beyond experience" or "truth". People see it that way for lack of reference. Whereas if you cycled again and again in and out of different seemingly absolute and "beyond experience" states, it'd become clear none of them can be IT.

@7Masterkeys The feeling of separateness when in public needs to be worked through. I feel the same way; bouts of extreme bliss in solitude, but awkward rigidity and anxiety when in social situations that could stir up my ego. How effectively can you maintain thoughtless awareness? What kind of judgements do you have? These are questions that i have been working through that are helping me with embodying more Being when doing day to day tasks, accomplishing goals, etc.

The bliss Jan talks with regard to the God consciousness stage is definitely an extreme experience, a sort of high. There's another Kundalini guy called Harri Aalto who was unable to function for several years (while his wife took care of him) due to bliss. I personally got some experiences of bliss a few days after I got shaktipat (one the in absentia and once a retreat), it felt quite similar to the kind of bliss I had on LSD. Dropped the practices soon so kundalini symptoms and bliss went away as well.

Interesting. People who have written about levels of consciousness in humans (e.g. David Hawkins) put paranormal abilities at a lower level than full enlightenment. So I understand how people might start experiencing 'crazy' phenomenon without grounding it in the Absolute and freak out as a result. True. As spiritual teachers advocate: Work towards enlightenment. If paranormal abilities present themselves, let them, but don't let that be a hindrance/distraction. Owing to the limit of interpersonal communication, we won't be able to conclude if this bliss that Jan experiences is fundamentally different from a state that lies in the domain of experience. The only way to verify is do the practices and see if you experience it yourself. And even after that, others might not believe you. #black_hole_effect

Heh. It is a little knotty. The seeker has to stop the mind to clear away the veiling of true identity. But once that has been seen, one definition of enlightenment might be the recognition that even thought is understood to be non-thought. And then a third twist: a quiet mind is in fact more "pleasurable." But that doesn’t matter to enlightenment, and anyhow there is no one there to make the 'decision' one way or the other about whether to pursue that or not. Well, the quiet, 'passionless' mind is actually not dull. It is the subtlest bliss. It may seem to do many things, or it may seem to do very little, but either way the deep inward stillness is the same. It doesn't do "in order" to escape dullness. What is its motive? Totally inscrutable.