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Do you mean I should keep thinking to wake up? When somebody says this I get defensive of not thinking, because my first problem arose because of long thinking when I was 13 (In 2000). I remember clearly, how I thought about life, existence, Allah (I was muslim), soul and etc several consequent days and jumped to a conlusion that there is no Allah, or any other extraordinary omnipotent power, there is no soul, nothing is sacred, we are just biologic creatures with mind. I was shocked. As if something very valuable disappeared inside me. I fell into emptiness. The fear took the whole me. I tried to kick those thoughts away, but could not. The following days I thought more and I could not understand why we are here, who am I, can I trust myself, what if everything is an illusion. Very freak thoughts came to my mind which I cant articulate well. When there is a period that I am very busy with something (material things), these thoughts dont come or come rarely. But since 2013 I feel terrible and on antidepressants. When I contemplate existential stuff, I get worse. Do you think, I should think no matter how I feel? I have been meditating since June and since December it seems I have decreased the amount of thinking and daydreaming. But have not seen any improvement in my mental state. Horrible. Constant pain. And I desperately want relief. When fear is overwhelming I panic, cry, beg. When fear is not that strong I embrace it. I embrace pain. Especially during meditation. My heart seems it will stop, but I go on. However neither pain nor fear disappear. Today I told myself I would not involve my mind until 1st March. So after that date I may start to think and seek answers. I was somehow successful in it. Although pain went up, I tried to stay in present moment and neglect mind, no matter how insecure I felt. But as soon as fear came, I tumbled down to my mind again in order to find immediate relief with the help of thinking. The worst is when I am outside, because even in such a situation I dont want to show my weakness to strangers (I care other people's opinion so much) and therefore fear doubles outside. I know why I need to answer my questions. I want to find absoluteness. So I wont get lost. I want to see the meaningfulness. I dont see meaning. But I guess I would not see meaning even if there was a God. I would still say why and feel discontent. I remember when I was 13 I imagined eternal life in heaven and got scared. I thought dying and not having a soul is better than eternal life. But actually when I feel terrible everything sounds scary to me. I am on treatment since 2013. I have seen two different psychotherapists. I want to neglect the pain and live my daily life outside of my mind, but it consumes my energy. Can anybody with a strong headache dance? Nor me with strong mental pain. What to do then? Meditation? Can I get better without enlightenment, or will I suffer until I get rid of ego (which I doubt will happen to me) ? Is it better to neglect mind completely until I am doing something related to my job? The more I neglect the mind, the worse I feel, sometimes a huge pain, which I think I wont handle. But it seems the only way to recover. Should I decrease mind day by day or stop it abruptly? I have quitted cigarette, cannabis, alcohol. Is quitting mind also like them? I have a huge emptiness inside me, which seems to produce fear. Yes I try to avoid pain and bad feelings. I try to focus on something else, because I am afraid I will not be able to handle those feelings. Are not all thoughts different and independent of each other? Should I believe in fairy tails, happy ends or live without expectations? Do you think existential thoughts are easily defined concepts? Actually sometimes I dont get those thoughts, but get those feelings that everything is alien, stranger. Everything is dark. I want to live so much. I think this is also a problem. I should face the possibility that I may suffer forever or may commit suicide. Eternal pain is sometimes inevitable.

Ok...I was watching Leos enlightening video...then he said...you dont control your arms and stuff and you dont have free will. And my mind which is still very fragile went into full delusion mode and I again felt like I am destined to commit suicide and that nothing will change that. I tried to explain it with my mind, I tried searching in my mind for who I am and that brought me in this state again. I know I shouldnt have done it, stick to my methods of finally getting on a healthy path, and Ive been I guess, but now I feel traumatized just by my stupid mind and my reaction to the thoughts. I instantly lost all of my connection to my loved ones again. Dont we have free will in a sense of reacting to events and thoughts? I am shaking so bad at the moment. I have an identity issue, I cant identify with a self anymore, for example, I cant imagine the observer oberserving the thoughts anymore, it just doesnt work anymore, and I dont know who I am, why am I a body if I am not it and just awareness observing it? I feel very suicidal at the moment...wait I cant die anyway, can I? All I feel is the person I think I am wants to die. Maybe I went a bit too far this time. I feel like even if I recovered I would never be functioning delusional-free after this experience. Ok I really really need to know how to have a healthily working ego again, it is mentally destroying me.

I'm very sorry to hear what you are going through. Just a few suggestions: 1) If you are meditating (but also while not meditating) Be mindful of when those compulsive thoughts arise, and when they do, ask yourself, "what is the feeling that these thoughts are interpreting." I think a lot of times, certain thoughts arise as a mechanism to dissociate from an underlying feeling that is misunderstood. It can be fear, sadness, or any other feeling that the mind has deemed too intense to actively feel. If there is a feeling lying outside of the thoughts, it needs to confronted. This may or may not make it go away, but just allowing the feeling to enter into awareness might show you that it isn't unbearable. It seems that right now you are focused only on the thoughts, and are trying to derive an answer as a means to prevent the apparently bad feeling to go away. What the mind will do is deaden feelings of intense experience to try and avoid them. Then we relate and identify with these feelings, which breathes life into the thought processes. After a while, we feel that we are deadened or incomplete, because we unconsciously avoid a portion of the natural expression of life that we are. Think of the feelings as aliveness. 2) I would really read Already Free by Bruce Tift. It's not going to provide any definitive answers, but it might resonate with your experience. 3) Don't be ashamed to seek out help. It can be from a therapist, or a Buddhist monk, or anyone that you choose. Suicide isn't the solution, because there isn't a problem. You are aliveness. You are existence. Without you there is nothing. I'm sending love your way. I hope you find some peace.

In Obsessive Compulsive Disorder there is a branch called "existential thoughts" and also "existential anxiety". But some people assume you should think deep and find an answer. I have existential thoughts since I am 13. They all without an exclusion give me fear, discomfort, depression, demotivation and etc. I have been meditating since June. My state deteriorates day by day, I feel like being on the edge or close to it. Want to cry. Because am so fed up of it. It has been 17 years pain. Do you think I should involve in them and seek an answer or stop thinking (at least trying)? I doubt I will ever find an answer by thinking, I even doubt there is an answer. I watched Leo's video about unconditional happiness. I would say I have unconditional unhappiness and my successes and gains dont give me happiness. I feel trapped. But I also dont want to commit suicide. (That is the reason I have endured it for 17 years). But I am afraid I have limits and beyond that limit I will commit suicide if I dont get relief. I have endless questions in my mind. Should I stop seeking answers and just live and observe the life? What can I do besides meditation for raising awareness?

I just thought that enlightenment is also the realisation that there is no intellectual answer for this question but only existential one manifested in form of good feeling, in particular feeling certain or feeling that you know. Seeking starts from lack of good feeling in right brain, question formed in left, and answered in right brain again when 'good feeling' is reached and established. Meaning of life is to feel good, and thus reason for creation is simply because its good ('god created world for his pleasure’ = existence is there coz it 'feels good'). For realised human being this understanding is manifested in feeling absolutely good or happy and thus seeking has ended. Its ended because of this emotional relief (in a sense). Coz imagine realising absolute oneness and still feel suffering? You will start seeking answers again. Enlightenment assumes feeling good. And you wouldn't pursue truth if in the end it makes you suffer until the end of your life, right? Irrational feeling is what pushes us to wake up, while intellect is there just to know how to wake up. So if we think about first cause, the answer to why is because its 'good'. The answer to how its created is that you can think of different kind of theories. There are many ways to tie your shoes, but what pushes you to do so? Coz you wanna feel good. Every action is about feeling good. And there's nothing else that push us to do anything. Even suicide is about getting rid of negative feeling, and negative is simply lack of positive. So as anger, fear or sadness are all tools for now to feel good later (you are afraid of something so you can survive and feel good later). Even self-destruction is about doing something that you think can make you feel good, even if you think that you are mistaken in the end. Haha even masochists harm themselves and sadists harm others because it feels good for them. So I thought since enlightened ppl finally feel good then they no longer think about reason for existence because good is the answer. Its also kind of universal answer: not all living organisms are asking why verbally, but all trying to feel good in one way or another. I think this very simple answer is often overlooked among enlightened people of West who are regardless of their enlightenment try to explain answers for 'why there is creation' in rationalising and come up with some ambiguous thing like 'there is no why, there is no question' or 'god wants to know himself' or 'its a huge laboratory and we are experiments'. For every question there is an answer, but its not always found in thinking. It can be just as easy as 'because its good', but its so often not enough for intellectual west. @cetus56 to say nothing exist is to say that everything exist

Dude these are so relatable to myself, I had same situation over 2017, and still having it although its less intense now because I see hope in spirituality. I'm idealist, so whenever I have some picture of reality in my mind I assume my life should be similar to this picture. Whenever my life loses its romantic hope I just want to end everything, I became depressed and suicidal. Last year my life lost its romantic flavour like never before, so I broke badly, was few centimetres away from ending it all. So your situation is relatable to me, especially about parents, and about getting old, and about not having matching spouse, and about making mistakes of the past that I only recognized now. Especially these past mistakes that affect my hopelessness now bother me a lot. I also think that if I only was more conscious before and think about my future 10 years ago or at least 1 year ago, I would be in different situation now and that because of these mistakes I cannot have same passionate and romantic flavour in life anymore and cannot have my desirable career anymore because I got older although I'm 23. So these are true for me too, and probably the biggest concern for me as well. Well for my self-image. By now, I'm trying to get rid of identification with self-image through spiritual work. I'm trying to die existentially instead of physically. Thats what everyone here is trying to do. I'm afraid that physical suicide will only add suffering to you in after-life if we assume that it exists (since reality is a causal stream). Suicide is desirable because we are lacking wholeness, complete order, our true state of being. How old are you? What type of career do you want to have? And what mistakes of past bother you most of all?

Why do we feel suicidal? Why we just want to die sometimes even when life seems good?

@Max_V pretty intense. very emotional, touching. it made me think of suicide as well.

@Max_V It was pretty interesting, I liked how they had the all seeing eye looking over everything. I had to kind of shift perspective a little to enjoy this type of music, but once it kind of settled into a character and life of it's own I appreciated it more. How did the kid die? Sounds like suicide.

I can't stop thinking about just dying man. It seems like the only rational and easy solution to end my pain and suffering. I've been thinking of it for so long now of various intensities over the years, but the last few weeks have been real intense for me. The thought of it, if I'm being honest, makes me a little happy. The benefit of me dying now is that I would no longer feel any more pain. I would no longer suffer. I'd no longer have to put up with the hopelessness that I've caused. It wasn't always like this; when my life was going well, I never had thoughts of committing suicide ever. Once I realised that, actually, I've made some huge errors and because of these huge errors my life will never be the same, and that I'll never reach my potential because of these errors I did, and that literally everybody I know is zooming past me and doing well with their lives and making huge progress while I'm here getting lower and lower on the spectrum, this realisation is when I've started to have these suicidal thoughts. And the more lower I get, the more intense the suicidal thoughts and the more sense it makes that death is the answer. It's also compounded by hopelessness of the future. The future seems bleak due to a series of mistakes I've made. If I didn't make those mistakes, my future would be different and, in my opinion, much better for me. But because I made those errors, I've put myself in a situation that is hard to climb out of. Because of those errors, I know that I am working at a level that is much lower than my actual capacity. Add to this the fact that I'm an adult now and getting older. I feel old too. By my current age I thought I would have certain things that are important to me: I thought I would have a career in the big city, which I don't and am nowhere near of getting. In fact, I am unemployed with no college degree and am in debt. I also don't care how my death would affect others; they'll get over it in a few weeks probably. All I'm doing is leaching off my parents and causing them suffering because they have to go around knowing their son is a failure. Perhaps it makes sense to say that me dying would be a sort of breath of fresh air for them, in the long term? Even my younger brother doesn't look at me in the same way; he used to respect me but now I know for sure he just resents me now for failing so much and so often with nothing tangible to show. Many departments of my life are not the way I'd like them to be: my career (or lack of career), no intimate relationship (never had one anyway), various persisting medical problems that I know are going to cause me further struggle, money issues, no purpose, no real close friends I am in pain and suffering much, much more than I am ever in enjoyment and pleasure. My life is not fun. It doesn't seem like it'll ever be fun. Therefore, suicide makes complete sense, right?

I think that the true beauty of life is all that is. Accepting everything that is. Making a change in your life if you really want to. But there is no right or wrong. This includes me not saying "Suicide is wrong". Because when someone out there makes the decision, who am I to judge? He or she was so selfish commiting suicide? There are a lot of selfish people out there, I guess here in this forum as well. I think I am selfish too. But who am I to control someone elses decision to commit suicide or not? Obviously it is not an easy thing to talk about when someone has a lot of compassion and tries to help someone with suicidal thoughts. Unfortunately my compassion is not the best. I am not here to help others. I try to bring certain change into my own life. And when people in real life see me as a role model, why not. But I will never force my help on others even when its about more serious topics. Statistics say that every 30 seconds or so someone commits suicide. Thats a freakin lot. I had some thoughts as a teenager but I was too patient and now too mature to consider such nonsense. We will die anyway, why speed up this process. The value of life is now. My goal is not that when I am old I will be thinking that I have lived a good life. Because when I will be old the value of life will be that moment somewhere in the future.

You see, this thought where you think like " yea, its time. I cannot take this anymore" type of suicidal thought. This "this" what you cannot take anymore. Suicide is not going to make a difference. "this" remains even after your suicide.

@Thanatos13 "the beauty of life" is something you gain. Yes, what is miserable exists, what is "ugly" exists. Consequences exists. You're miserable right now, you're giving yourself answers, explanations, you are delusional, you want to kill yourself, but you want answers from people, you're unsure. There is no purpose indeed. The unconsciousness hides it. Unconscious people are "lucky". But as you grow your consciousness, as you start to see these things, you'll also start to "know" things intuitively. It starts not to be a matter of what is true or not, what has purpose or not, if I should kill myself or not. Explanations, superficial answers becomes things of past. The new kind of knowledge starts to make itself known. You start to know a new kind of knowledge, to acquire a new kind of knowledge. The knowledge that you feel, that is simply "true". Suicide, death, you start to see them for what they are, and also start to feel that your existence has a purpose after all, but another kind of purpose than known by "ordinary" people. Yes the life is suffering when you are not conscious of what you are. It is all about suffering and deception until you start to see. That's why you meditate, try to be aware every moment, because something is neglected. "Something" that you intuitively know you have to discover.

I'm not gonna joke here, I had several attempts when I felt stuck in life but only two things have stopped me: biological fear and fear of being punished after-life (karma) fear is what will stop us from doing it. and just think about it, what if karma and reincarnation exist and we actually will be unsettled ghosts or in hell or in bad abusive life-situation in next reincarnation if we actually commit suicide! really contemplate that. that's no woowoo staff to prevent people from harming themselves, that can be real deal of how reality works. reality is causal in the end of the day. so think about future. don't try to run from suffering now to have full bowl of suffering afterwards. instead work to change situation now. think about why ancient spiritual traditions considered suicide as the greatest sin? is it just made-up? or is there some knowledge and understanding of the world behind that? truth is you can't claim its bullshit, and you can't claim its not. because we don't know. while if its actually true you will end up in worse place if you do it. you want to suicide because you want to get rid of wounds of your self-image/ego. so instead of suicide, just 'get rid' of ego. there won't be desire for suicide any longer.

@Thanatos13 I'm going to provide my perspective...like food for thought....but I'm not interested in a debate, sorry....I write this simply as a gift of compassion...ok....so, if we can't assume there is something greater...then we could safely call death "the unknown"....with that, we could agree that in sudden death we MAY not have all of the *choices* we have access to in life...............it's as if you hold in your hand (the hand that votes for living) a "choose your own adventure" book with almost infinite possibilities, opportunities, and potential.... and in the other (suicide hand) you hold a novel with only a single journey.... yes, we don't know which adventure is "best" or "most beautiful"... but we do know, that if you choose to live, you can actually have *both books*! From every rational lens I look through... experiencing the infinite adventures of life first is the best course of action...and likely why we usually LIVE and experience all we can while we can! I hope to talk to you about this again in a decade or so... If you can get to happiness, you likely would no longer question the validity of life.... you wouldn't want to miss a single amazing present moment of it! Sending love and wishes for your ultimate happiness!

Because contrary to any logic I have for it, suicide is very difficult to perform. The brains and body have survival mechanisms that prevent us from offing ourselves. If i see it that way it’s because I haven’t discovered sufficient evidence to believe otherwise. Or I haven’t heard an argument to counter mine. Science teaches that pure certainty is a myth, so no I’m not certain. But I am fairly confident in the likelihood of it. I just wanted to address the holes in the videos.

Again, none of this addresses my statement. Life isnt “about anything”, it simply is. Anything assigned to it is human bias or “ego” in your speak. How can I trust insights into life in a certain state? What makes that state more valid than others? How do I know such a state isn’t deception? For people who criticize everything else you know you seem to leave certain things untouched. I dont even think the suicide is about depression anymore, it’s more like logic. I’m not bound by any contract to live, it’s optional. I won’t remember anything I did, so why bother doing it? Whatever I decide in life I will forget when I die. Doesn’t seem to be much reason to live to be honest. Seems easier to die, not having to deal with existing anymore.

You are here for a reason, for a greater purpose. You may not know what it is yet but that's the whole mystery of life. Suicide will most probably leave you in the same loop lifetimes over lifetimes until you learn your lesson and free yourself from the loop.

Letting go of the ego feels really good and like anything it takes practice. You have the option to kill yourself for sure and there isn't really any meaning to anything. If you have the time, could you try something for me, I would like to see if it might help with your depression. Ok, here goes: Put aside all thoughts of depression and suicide for this exercise. Also, put aside thoughts of the past and future. Now be completely in the moment. Breath deeply and feel the air enter and exit your nostrils. Focus on the feeling in your spine, it will kind of have a tickling sensation to it. Now as you are doing this, go deeper and deeper into that feeling. Now at this point, breath in deeply and move the feeling of calm and ease into your chest/heart area. Feel the spine, your breathing, your chest. It should feel pretty good. Now listen to this song, focus on the instruments, the richness of the sound. Then, still in this state, go to the fridge and get something fresh and light. Chew it slowly and really taste the flavours, feel the texture. Don't worry about 'why am I doing this' or anything like that. All this is just a test run. This is what life is about, God lives through your experience. If you practice this with other things throughout the day, life will become more enjoyable and depression will loosen it's hold. Insights about life are clearer in this state as well.

because you are a taking the easy way out like a selfish little pussy if you commit suicide while the ego is still intact, the ego wins, deception wins, you win why not kill yourself by becoming enlightened? then you can enjoy the rest of life and help others you should go on living to help others

Sorry but that isn’t a correct evaluation. The body and the mind (which is all there is) do so, especially in the face of the logic where one doesn’t HAVE to do anything really. We don’t need a purpose, we don’t need to live, the more you ponder it the more death seems logical. Awareness of that reality is hard to ignore. But I doubt others grapple with such concepts. Everyone seems to believe that life is “worth it”. I believe Thomas Ligotti already address the “no self” objection to suicide, stating that it only reinforces the case for it.

I have been asking that question of "Why not just commit suicide?" a lot the last few weeks. The logic here is this: I am suffering a lot and it seems to be getting more worse as my life goes on, and there isn't sufficient amounts of evidence around me that the contrary to suffering is possible. Therefore, if I commit suicide, then that suffering ceases to exist. Seems like a good idea and an idea that makes a lot of sense, but I'm not brave enough to do it. Why do people bother? Fear of whatever happens when you die is perhaps the biggest reason? I don't actually think that, if a person is thinking of committing suicide, then thoughts of their family or whatever even enter their thinking. Perhaps it mainly is just the fear of dying and not knowing what happens after, coupled with perhaps the faint hope of maybe it'll be a little better someday.

One thing that I never understood was why bother doing literally any of it when suicide is a more expedient alternative. Its like an insight I had one day when I realized I don’t have to or need to live. It’s optional

When you are accepting your death, what you are really accepting is some belief of what death is. I have seen a person die and I still have no idea what it is because I have no conscious information about it so there's nothing to accept or reject about it. If you are trying to reject it there's a problem of resistance, if you are trying to accept it there's a problem with beliefs. Thus neither reject it, nor accept it. As for suicide - it's really born out of belief. In India people don't like to commit suicide because they believe in reincarnation and feel that it will solve nothing. In the western world we believe that suicide will solve it all so we like to commit suicide when things get really tough. What if suicide makes it even worse? Get stuck is some hell dimension? LOL! I have considered suicide many times in the past so I can relate. Sometimes life can feel so dark and desperate or maybe you might have a tough mental or physical illness that turns you into a fucking vegetable and you just want to end it. As you realize that you will never reach all of your dreams and hopes the ego starts to suffer immensely, but don't run away from this feeling. Jed McKenna said "Your moments of blackest despair are really your most honest moments, your most lucid moments...". Why do you think that is? Because then you realize that your dreams and hopes are actually irrelevant. In fact they were always irrelevant - stuff born out of your beliefs. Tilopa said: "Investment in samsara is futile; it is the cause of every anxiety. Since worldly involvement is pointless, seek the heart of reality!" The real suicide is waking up, not killing your physical body. The price of waking up is everything. Let it all go - life, death, certainty, uncertainty, beliefs, knowledge, religion, hopes, dreams, fears, doubts, opinions, memories, esteem, aspirations, motivations, expectations, goals, enlightenment, non-enlightenment, meaning, meaninglessness, luck, fate, faith, destiny, identity, normalcy, craziness, fairness, unfairness, confusion, clarity, frustration, strategy, time, space, tactic, plot, cause, effect etc. (fill in the rest with whatever you identify with). See... All of the dream is nothing, it's empty. It doesn't mean anything. Let your beliefs go and with your beliefs you will go as well. Completely surrender. Even the process of surrendering you should surrender. It's not to go somewhere or to become a god. It's to disappear. If you can disappear then why not try it? That's probably the most interesting thing to try period. "Without the past, there would be nothing to think about, let alone someone to think it." - From the TV show Sens8 Tilopa said: "A tree spreads its branches and puts forth leaves, But when its root is cut its foliage withers; So too, when the root of the mind is severed, The branches of the tree of samsara die"

I have never attempted to commit a suicide, but I am in a constant torture, which I am getting fed up of. It has been almost 12 years. I work, study online courses, exercise sometimes. Outside nobody knows what I endure, if I am not in crisis when the pain manifests itself outside as well (me crying or dry heaving and etc).