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@Lorcan No, you don't understand. YOU ARE JUST AN IDEA! YOU DO NOT EXIST! So there is nothing you can personally gain from spirituality. Therein lies the ultimate Goodness. Goodness is NOT you getting stuff. Goodness is the end of you. Then, once you're dead, nothing can bother you any more and all becomes perfection. The reason you cannot understand this is because you keep assuming you exist and there is stuff you can get. Spirituality it deep counter-intuitive. Happiness only comes after you surrender your entire life to the Truth. You do not surrender to the Truth to get happiness. No! You surrender to the Truth believing that you've killed yourself and everything is fucked and destroyed. THEN, and ONLY then, do you discover something beyond. Almost every fiber of your being hates the Truth. Right now, you only care about the "truth" because you think it will get you something positive. But this is not Truth, this is falsehood. You have to realize that YOU are the problem. And the solution will the elimination of yourself. Spirituality is a form of suicide. Which is why hardly anyone does it. Imagine surrendering your entire life such that you didn't care any more what happened to you. That's what we're shooting for. For example, you don't care any more if you die or if you go to prison or get raped. You have completely surrendered your life to the universe's whims. By surrendering EVERYTHING, you will gain the universe. And then you will be happy. Because you will be dead inside. Truth = Death You have to appreciate how serious this is. We are not talking in metaphors or playing word games. We are talking about your ACTUAL death. And you have to be wise enough to realize that death the best strategy. It is the only way to escape the maze. You have to be wise enough to say, "Okay, fine. Death it is then. Let's do this." You do not want this. It is impossible for an ego to want this. Eckhart Tolle died the day he became enlightened. What you see now is a meat bag walking and talking which you call "Eckhart Tolle". It walks and talks, but it is just a zombie. You are also just zombie, but you are in denial about it. All enlightenment is, is realizing you were always a zombie.

So I just had a very odd dream where I took 5meo-DMT. It's hard to remember in full but I'll do my best to explain it. So the setting was odd, it sort of reminded me of the videogame known as Resistance, all I remember is it seemed almost war torn and a bit post-apocalyptic/alien. Martin Ball was in it and he was the one administering the drugs, I remember there where many buckets of icecream there as well, like it was comfort food for a bad trip or something, I remember being a little thrown off by that and thinking it was kinda stupid. When it was my turn to take the drugs I was laying down and Martin was kneeling at my feet, I don't know how I took them. Did he inject my feet with 5meo? Did he put it up my ass? Some questions may never be answered, but I just remember being disappointed by the effects. I remember a surge of tingling sensation/energy going from my mid section outwards, so from around my heart and gut chakra to my arms and then my hands, my legs and then my feet, also to my balls which felt very weird and uncomfortable, the whole thing felt slightly uncomfortable, like my body was ready for a death trip but couldn't quite get there, I remember flying up into the air and seeing the landscape stretch like a piece of rubber, buildings being separated further from one and other. I can't remember much else from my "trip" I just remember being disappointed. Another Unrelated Dream I Had In The Same Night: So my best friend recently committed suicide and last night he was in a very odd dream of mine. I think I was in his home town of Winnemucca but I'm not sure, I was with my dad, we were riding a dirt bike, all 3 of us were somehow riding the same dirt bike, it was just me and my dad but then we picked up my friend, we saw a drop off on the side of the intersection, my dad just fucking drove off it, but it's okay because there was a ramp at the bottom so we landed perfectly. I don't remember much else from the dream, later I was left with the dirt bike to myself and I was driving around in the dirt, a voice in my head was making commentary on the indestructibility of dirt tires, I then went to ride the bike on the road but remembered that I don't have a licences and this vehicle isn't street legal so I pulled off to the side and started walking the bike, I saw a very odd looking police car that wasn't really a police car, I think it was an animal patrol van with police sirens and lights on top, it pulled me over, a guy got out and said something like "I'm not here to give you a ticket today, I'm here to give you your package that came in the mail." I woke up before I had time to see what it was, I think I already know what it was.

He is not dumb @Rilles, he try to provoke and cause drama. He has issues, obviously it's stupid to commit suicide, I hope that all people who read this thread understand that. Don't harm yourself, work on your consciousness and become a transforming loving force in the world. Peace.

Yeah, that is personally why I don't think about committing suicide seriously. You may kill yourself but then there is a possibility that you will simply just start over again with all the bullshit that comes with it. At least in this life we already figured something out and now we have the tools to do something. Who knows if you'll be able to find these tools in your next life.

If you are thinking of suicide I would suggest you tell someone close to you and try to get help from a professional. Spiritual enlightenment isn’t a cure for severe mental problems.

Suicide is the fastest method known to mankind so far, next to taking high doses of 5-MeO-DMT. Or do a slow 21 day dark room retreat/while fasting and you will come out of that room enlightened.

You need both Atman and Maya to have a functioning reality, suicide would remove Maya and you’d be dead so there would be no experience at all, that is not enlightenment.

Is this a faster way to reach turquoise/have no identity? Why spend so much time to destroy it? Would this even work? Would i be happy?

@Devil What do you mean by DEATH? You advocate suicide on order to gain truth aka ALL?

It is objective in the sense that it’s wires into the biology of living creatures, hence outside their control. In that sense it’s an objective value in that you don’t have a say in it. As a suicide victim how hard it is to overcome the survival drive. Ultimately though we are subjective creatures that live by subjective values. There isn’t a way around that.

@MarkusSweden enlightenment is realizing and living the true nature of Reality, which is conscious, breathing and typing right now. it's not like Truth became, becomes or will become falsity someday. Truth is eternal whether it's realized or not. there's no fundamental change required such as "physical death". suicide is denial, opposed to living gracefully a.k.a. full acceptance.

Maybe it's because of this post (literally a suicide note to the forum, it doesn't matter if it's real or not) that I don't like to use the phrase "kill yourself". The guy literally expressed his belief that self-harm and suicide is the way to liberation. But what do we know?

When I read threads here I see a few members that are truly great, they seem to know everything and have an aura of enlightenment about them. However, it still feels like they are refusing to make the very last step to finally become fully enlightened, like they hold something back. Like they are 99% enlightened and not aim any higher that that. At very rare occasions though, I see members who are all in so to speak, 100% , I often notice when facing those posts already after reading the first sentence. I can't nail what's special about them, they just are. They just feel so incredible transparent, honest and full of integrity. I feel their words digs in to my body and deliver silence and truth. What I notice about these posters is that they are not interesting in socialising or sharing ideas back and forth, they often just post one single post and that's it, then they are gone for good. In a way, all of those "One post wonder"- members had a dark picture of life. But it didn't felt dark at all reading them, rather it felt liberating to read them. A few of them decided to commit suicide, others have chosen to stay but they know there is nothing to gain in doing so. They just let the lucid dream continue, but for no reason really. The reason why I don't feel sad reading those dark posts is because I recognise how they desire REAL enlightenment in a way. And if you want REAL enlightenment, you can't really desire any aspect of worldly life, not even "enlightenment" within a body mind, and that explain the dark nature of their posts(which paradoxically aren't dark at all). They were not satisfied to reach a point were they saw through duality. They wanted more(same as less), they were not satisfied with a lucid dream within an agent lost in maya, they wanted FULL awakening. And think about it, first you don't recognise reality as a dream, you believe it is real, then you recognise it's nothing but a dream(maya). You're having a lucid dream by now, but that's not really to be fully awake. If you have a dream at night, and start realising you're in the middle of a dream, you might find it fascinating to be in a lucid dream for a while, but after that initial bliss and freedom of realising you're in a lucid dream, don't you want to quit the game all together, folding up to ten and become fully awake? I can't see how you can stay within a body mind and be fully enlightened, even if you don't identify at all with the body mind that carries you around. Can you? Also, at my most blissful in moments in life, when I really enjoy life the most, thoughts like "Nothing could be better then to be physical dead" have come to my mind. Those thoughts only come when I really experience great happiness in life, I think that is because the supreme creator know that I can handle the truth at that time. Those kind of thoughts never come me, when life isn't that good, then I think of a new car, a new carrier, a new girlfriend or anything other superficial. Elaborate.

@Omario Commit ego suicide. Look in a mirror (optional) and say to yourself "Everything I've held true about myself since the day I was born has been a lie". Can tell you from experiance that will give you an ego death. Tried it a few times and nothing happened at first so almost gave up. Gave it one more honest try. Caution: It's a real foundation shaker to the physiological self.

If one seeks the end of seeking the seeker seeks it's own end....so, it's seeker suicide so to speak.

Live a life of sheer joy and ecstasy , that is the only way to live. Every other way is only to commit a slow suicide. There is a life to live which is of adventure and not of social conformity. There is a life of meditation. Now start living a life of relaxation, calm and quiet. And you will be surprised, you have been missing life, not because life is worthless. You have been missing life because you have been taught to live a worthless kind of life.

Saying that is rude. This person, at least to me, isn't whining at all. Just stating their claim pretty calmly. @TheSomeBody Even though you stated that you are not depressed your posts to me seem like you are depressed. I believe if someone is thinking of suicide then that person probably has depression. Agree. Have you thought about counselling? Do you have insurance that would cover it? I have a theory on counselling. I believe 1/3 counselors can improve your life in at least a decent way. I believe counselling has a bad rep because those people have gotten unlucky with the 1/3 odds. Even though it is 1/3 you can still go 0/8, for example. I believe almost all counselors try to help and want to help, but I think that counselling is one of the hardest jobs possible to be good at. I hear you. I've been putting in the work and yet where are my results! I am currently reading Arnold Schwarzenegger's autobiography and it has been very inspiration to me. Like you, I struggle with finding meaning in doing anything. This book has been helping me fight that. This sounds really great on paper. You are not the first person I have read type this. The thing is I have yet to read someone explain why this is and be able to relate that to the person who feels the opposite.

One of my posts was deleted without an explanation. I messaged two moderators. One of them said he deleted my post because the title of my post was likely to trigger suicidal people to commit suicide with guns.

if you are referring to suicide, this is the opposite of which you seek, it would mean to forfeit the journey you have already made so much progress on. it is an act of senseless violence that causes nothing but despair. not only that, it would set humanity back and add to the tragedy and misery that impede the growth of many. this i have seen firsthand on far too many accounts. the preparations have already been made if it is a practice or task you are looking for... it is coming to terms with or realizing these preparations via expansion of awareness and being the appropriate approach to take is completely up to you and what fits your situation, there are many directions at that, most of which involve the cultivation of mindfulness. you are in the right place. just know you are already on the path ṅ̠̦͓͖̝͓͇̙͇̓ͨ͌͐ͭa̰͈̲̖̱͖͗͗̓͂̑̋̃̅̋͑͛̈́̔͐͋͑̑̚̚m̜͙̹̲͉̜͉̹͎͔̼̬̯̪̣̑̆ͮͯ̽͐̍͊ͮ͊͒ͅͅa̦͖͚̖̺̲̯̲͋ͭ̿̚ṣ̮͙͇̹̖̲̳̞͉͎͕͖̅̐̃́̄̀̓ͩͧ̎͒͋ͬ͐̿́̓͛͗t̺̦͇͉͇͚̖͆́ͩ̆ͨ̿̄͆ͫͣe̤̥̘̲̺̳̫̲͔̫̻̺̱̺̯ͯ̇̀̊̔ͬͤͧ͊̔ͦͪ - yawning gap

Hi, @Strikr! Thank you for your answer. I hope you get better of your ADHD. Maybe meditation can help you. Recently, I lost my best friend (he attempted suicide) and I cried a lot. When my dog died around 1 year ago, I also cried. Maybe I'm too sensitive. I think drugs are good when used the right way. Nowadays, psychiatrists put people on high amount of drugs with no reason. I'm tapering off antipsychotics because I think I don't need them anymore, but, if I have a psychotic crisis again, I will take it (but probably with a low dose). The idea that no one can understand me makes sense. As Leo says, we're alone.

Hi, @stevegan928! I feel your pain and I'm sorry for it. My best friend also attempted suicide around two weeks ago. It made me really sad and I still cry because of him. I didn't believe it in the beginning. Maybe you're thinking: "why he didn't tell me nothing?" or "why he didn't try to reach me out?". I think we'll never understand it and we can't predict what people will do. Stay connected with your feelings and be with trusted people. I hope the best for you.

Well, don't get crazy thoughts like suicide. This is going to pass, friend.

Yes there is, at least from my perspective. My theory is that everything is energy (because all matter is energy according to E=mc^2, but not all energy is matter [such as sounds and weaves]). Therefore there is no "I", we are just energy; there is no difference between the outside and the inside. There is no duality, all is one. This coincides with the animist idea that there is a soul in everything, not just in humans; and with the Christian idea that God is everywhere (omnipresence), that we are God (which is why they forbide suicide, because killing ourselves would mean killing God). Enlightenment is where spirituality and philosophy overlap; Enlightenment is an experience which can't be explained with language, because it shows to the fullest extent that all is one, and instead language is used to categorize, create duality, define something as different from something else, and such. Can you see how I went from a purely philosophical/metaphisical idea (e.g. "we are all matter"), to a completely spiritual one (e.g. "all is one, it can't be expressed with words")?

hey there, I'll be very short. ( ) excuse my french minded english. ( with my lack of skill, as a learned it only by copying pattern, never listen at school ) This topic will be egoic ( thanks for reading ) Fan of music since child, I find my life purpose while listening on weed music at a friend home. ( my all 3 best friends are currently into electronic music making ) only wanted to be a electronic musician since 3 years ( soon 4 ) ( I worked like a slave those last years, on me and my multi projects ) I was a bit in PTSD ( from using LSD and contemplating that reality was not a thing ( this is what I ve seen in the void of my mind ) that nothing matter .. I didn't find any real god, I was deluded that I will understand something, but only met my intuition overpowered even more than usual ( could see imagery pop in my mind while drawing ) " adhd " ( for real, I do not even want to believe I m this kind of shit, cause I hate 98% of internet who pretend to be this shit ) they are sad to me to read. They all sound sorry to tell that, but kind of stupid. ( not their wrong, they have been very mindfucked to believe they are "sick" ) old kid addicted to video games since my 6 years ( pokemon ) to 20/21 years ( droped it when I did weed ) ( league of legend ) ( was used to be "introvert" and akwardly very social ) making real weirdo jokes ( kind of rick & morty before it exist ) I could makes jokes about china eating africans to save the entire world. I love shatter reality and perspective since a child ( wasn't aware of doing a thing like that ) was just funny and natural to me to be a leo. I m INTP ( but mixed ENTP ) ( I did the test 4 times on my life and had 3 times INTP / 1 time ENTP ) ( those are models, not real fact, but they sound very accurate to me, against all others ( that I read ) I do not believe in IQ as something related at pure intelligence, it is a bit of something maybe.. I have between 135 & 150 ( not in term of intelligence, in term of IQ of course ) I never used any drug until 20 ( only video games addiction, not because I was ugly or hated at school ( I hated school because it was borring to death ) I was mostly seen as a beautiful guy/nice, so no one bothered me because I had a nice face ( was on the border to be hated like a nerd though, but was mostly talking to everyone and trying to be openminded to every idea, besides the day or I shoot out that football was for fucking chimp ( exactly haha ) before leo was in my reality ) I was a bit weirdo, crazy, and in my "mind" , because everything ultimately..borring to death. ( and I was good at lonely sport one of the best for my heretic body ) I m a hard alone worker ( learn, music, art, etc.. ) very curious; watch various "scientific/biologic/psychologic" content. ( but only since 4 years, since my life goal is being a god tier at music ) ( I do music, video making, recording, music engineering, basic web language understanding ) my hands are a bit everywhere except on girls. used alcohol a lot the first 2 years I discovered ( but never did alone my entire life ) ( at 20 ) because it was fun and "legal". then at my end 20y, some of my friend who likes music and movies makes me try weed. I buy a package the week after I try it ( it was not in a "night" context, only an afternoon, by listening music while high, it was like WOAAAAAAAAAAAAA ) Never stop using it more than 3 days for the last 3/4 years. ( probably put all my back monney in it, because it made me work for the first time of my life ) first thing : like music in 4k when you are used to 480 and you already loved it... ho man I fell in love, music and weed, it's infinity at hand, it's bliss. everyday it's bliss. I know this is stupid to be addicted to something like this, but who isn't addicted to something in life ? most people are addicted to having sex or masturbate. ( I do not have those addiction at all, even porn isn't a problem at all, for instance, it has been 4 days without any kind of thing, it doesn't even miss me ) but WEED MAN I started making electronic music like 6 month after i started ( and very religiously ). ( I learned english full while being high, I was mostly the worst piece of shit of my school for my entire school grades ) I even tell that I dedicate my life to the god of music in a very serious manner haha, so I worked so hard, my mind and ear was bleeding, it was even stupid of my part. I m still very healthy though, only crippling anxiety as a life style. weed remove all anxiety from me, absolutely all. I try the drug ritalin, but it was mostly shit fake meth in pack, makes me work and idiots completely crazy robot, makes me learn something about mind. ( it was my intent, I never really believed this shit would help me, it was to cope with the price of weed ( I wanted to have something equivalent and not pay for it ) what a shame.. ( cause in my country drug, are 100% free when prescribed ) I wanted to know what society was about to give me to makes me a good worker. holy shit, should have remain ignorant, but still, makes me grow a lot in the end ( if not makes me loose a cell of brain of both ) but brain doesn't exist but like leo said, all my induction was fucked to death. ( idea that pop by link of emotional pattern resolution, something like ) you're so tweaked, that your mind stop have insight, it just "do". without thinking really about the "how". ( it's the extreme of who I m ) ok now : I m almost 25, never worked in a real job ( only with dad for 3 month ) will never do it again. ( my dad can be real harsh and seriously close minded, I helped a bit with this but still ) ( only worked on my project since I started.. weed . ), ( but my country gives you 500€/month at 25 years. if you do not have a work ( yes for doing nothing ) it's social security ) why I start to want to rule the world when I take a puff ? ( I mean this is how I feel ) most people are not resonating the same on weed as me. I worked with my dad in physical job, wanted to kill me almost every day, put violence on me ( I do not live with him, only with my mother ) ( I m less heavy than a average girl 54kg and my 171 cm ) can't do physical shit, cause I had suicidal contemplation while doing this, turn me into a fucking nihilist, telling people that their life will end being a fucking slavery jokes ( this kind of thinking ) this is when I m out of weed, I always be a cynical, and a sceptical blabla. When I started weed, all my bad, all my shit was turning ON ! ok end of story, could write on my context for long, but I think you grasb the problem. I m fucking addicted to death, I can now do weed/learning/music for all day while being high ( in fact I can't work without being high, it's completely chaos ) I do not have motivation, I m easily distracted by anything ( in my mind , not reality ) I mean if reality is borring my mind start to create story on things or self reflect endlessly ( my natural states ). I see pattern in everything, relate to every idea, I can't "work" properly, it's when I smoke, I m "happy" stop being a piece of shit talker ( stop being cynical : try to help everyone make it in everything ) I learned electronic music ( more than 8000 hours of work ( only on music ) and others 3000 of hours : studying, reading, personnal work, reading book about business, art, etc.. ) I m still not at the lvl of selling anything. but when I don't have weed, I m lazy, procrastinating, playing EVEN video games, that I put out of my life when I started weed. ( completely stop my old addiction ) started to work and read a lot on weed. I think I would never learn patience without weed. and still it's annoying. when my mind creates all this thought only to entertain me/nerves me. I mean I wasn't aware as a kid of trolling people, only to excite me, I was doing this without even hate on people, conventional talk wasn't exciting enough. All my new real friends are Raves/Dj/drug addict ( mostly weed ). now I have 3 month to live without weed, because of monney, only this.. my mind start to creates pattern to get weed, it's very serious, I don't know how to control me, I could just contemplate suicide or tired, my lazyness, darkside thinking, anxiety, apathy. ok then when this is not happening, I m just wanting to procrastinate and never work on my project or on anything. Ok I can still love music, but man, I can't do music. it's crippling after 15 min of making music, I'll start feeling bad for a random though poping in. I never had real motivation before weed, I m still virgin at almost 25 ( not really making me feel great or bad, but maybe it's a thing, I don't know ) , even if I did LSD ( alone with self contemplation ), mushroom, mdma ( but fuck that shit, in the end, it's a happy void ), and a lot of others shits. Weed is my fuel and I m a car, for real, I m just living on the parking when I m out of weed :'( Now I m out of monney, should find a work/create a business to pay more weed ( like I did ) or should I really stop, and how to STOP and still makes music and hang a bit with my friend when I start to be crazy because of living the introvertness ? I would kill for a real solution, and not a joking solution, my life is so shitty without weed, and only monney stop me from buying. Should I create a side business on the internet ? now my account is 8€ currently, I still have 10€ of weed, and I m reflecting if I should suck dick or keep my dignity ( I m kind of joking ) no economy, no drive licence ( cost 2000€ to not get it ), but full of knowledge ! .. Please guys, don't tell me to accept Jesus I already accepted him in me, he talks to me in my sleep, tell me to call my weed dealer immediatly and trap him to stole his weed

@Robert use systems thinking to solve the problem of homelessness even make that your life purpose The over-arching life purpose of much of my thinking would be under the umbrella of "reducing human suffering, inside and out" which I have observed is a very common realization many of us share. I can come up with the most brilliant practical solutions to many of the world's problems, some of I am sure taking small action, or sharing the ideas with certain people can have profound butterfly effects. But with the urban street homeless issue, it's all just theoretical musings. I can clearly see how things like immigration enforcement, safety nets of basic living provisions, forced detox programs, prefabricated mini-houses, Gulags, assisted suicide, public nuisance ordinances, funding mental health services, privatizing public spaces, and many other changes could prevent the issue on one end and solve it on the other. Lot of these are obvious, and most others are brought up in political discussion. But politics itself is the limiting factor here, the pigeonholing of social issues into left and right leaning agendas, and the arbitrary lines between countries, states, counties and cities. I don't want to obsess over this issue, I accept it exists and there is no escaping it. It's actually beneficial to myself and to the world if I don't focus on the negative manifestations of things, better to think positive thoughts and live in a world of shiny happy people than live in fear and disgust towards homeless migration. Why not think bigger instead, addressing the root issue: Fostering awareness of how attitudes like pathological altruism and feel-good-ism, which are responsible for so many band-aid solutions which appear on the surface to be acting from a place of compassion, only lead to more human suffering. Or more broadly, helping the world at large advance into the next stages of consciousness, leading by example.