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@Rilles It's also survival because as Leo has explained, suicide is dying so that, in a twisted way, one's ego and beliefs can stay intact and "survive".

Ironically, suicide is usually an act motivated by survival. It is motivated by suffering. And suffering is survival.

Suffering is a teacher. Suicide is an option.. I can only speak for myself. Suicide comes from a place of fear and it's about running away. Living comes from a place of the heart/love and it is our true nature to be.

Great topic. For the people saying you'll end up right back here or your suffering will not end, this is a belief you are sharing is it not? This is something you have come to believe about death, or something you want to believe? It is something others believe and you have agreed with others? I don't know what to believe about death so I do not have a position to defend on what does or does not happen after death. If what you post is not a belief I'd love to be corrected/guided on what it is, if it's not a belief. It's one thing comparing theory and ideas, but perhaps have a think how you would approach the topic of suicide with someone who is in the advanced stages of Motor Neurone Disease, perhaps a friend or family member, who has been told by the legal system he and loved ones have no right to facilitate euthanasia in their own country, but if they have enough money they can go to another country and it's okay. Would you say to that person in the wheelchair who might be going to suffocate to death at some point soon ... "no point in topping yourself mate, you'll be right back here". Or telling him "You are God. You are the Universe". Actually I'll keep open mind hat on here..... of course there could be a situation where to think along these lines spiritually would actually comfort someone, but I wouldn't absolutely count on it! I'm not emotional writing this or angry. It's a really powerful debate all the time about suicide, whether you are coming from an actualised.org perspective or another perspective. I have personal experience, more than I would have wanted to have.

@WHO IS you can become directly conscious of Infinity/God/isness/Being/Conscioisness. That is a mystical experience in which you as form collapse into formlessness or Absolute infinity. This will be Actual and the ego/form will indeed dissolve. You will become conscious that you are this (God) and there is no where else to go. You can't escape yourself. Form and formlessness are Absolutely Identical. So after suicide of the form you will collapse into formlesness for eternity. But since eternity is itself and is infinite it will limit itself and you will explore yourself as limited form. It will just keep cycling like this forever and ever. But both are identical and One. So there is no cycle and there is simultaneously.

You May look at yourself as Infinite number of different point of awareness which are identical to source. You are one of this single points. So with suicide you can't escape existance. You will always be here and now as awareness. So much better option if you ask me is to accept everything uncoditionally and exist forever. You can't escape anywhere.

@WHO IS I have though about suicide before... i think you don't really want to suicide if you can handle your emotions. There is a difference between being sad and being deeply depressed. The last is a paralyzing state in which you see life through a completely different lens. If depression is cured, suicide don't even come to mind. There are other ways to deal with life suffering and difficulties.

Many yogis and enlightened masters talk about reincarnation. If it is true, then suicide is definitely not the end to any suffering because you will be right back here to 'suffer' more. Having said that anything will not seem true for you until you have a direct experience of it, so you wouldn't know for sure if reincarnation is real. But is it worth taking that chance? Killing the body doesn't mean the end to the real you. Killing body will limit you from experiencing the physicality of existence but that doesn't mean you cease to exist. There is nowhere to go. If anyone is in a state of suicide, it is most probably because the mental structure has become a mess. There are ways to undo it. Real Yoga and meditation are few of the tools you can use

Shiva, But do We really know that it is so? Do we really know that one gets right back to being human(in another body) if one commits suicide?

Humans all around the world say that life is mostly suffering. That being human is suffering. Then, why is suicide not considered as the option to get rid of this human condition, and thus the suffering that comes with being human inside one of these bodies? Even after one gets enlightened as people call this phenomenon, The Person is still slave to the laws of this reality. Humans need to put things into their mouths and then defecate these things after they eaten it, through a hole; and it stinks it looks disgusting yet it is coming out of your own body. In addition, a human being needs to lay unconscious almost half of its time. Most of a human being`s time is used upon the mundane and repetitive tasks, over and over again, and yet the human being has no choice in the matter, because living in chaos is not an option either; cleaning the place of living, throwing the trash, cooking the food, showering, cutting of the nails and hair, and many other mundane tasks. As time progresses the human condition does not look brighter but only darker. Humans don't get healthier/younger with age. Human beings can lose integrity/health of their body in an instant which after one lives'/suffers the consequence of being ill/handicapped for the rest of their lives. There are SO many ways for a humans life to go wrong and thus give handicap/suffering that it is not even a question that human-condition is more of a curse than a blessing. There was never a human with a happy ending and never will be, and again it is due to the nature of the human itself. Its fragility and mortality. (Billion Dollar) Question is: Why Suicide is not considered as a way to break free from this unfortunate-condition? Isn't it silly how the "spiritual" people are so much after their another hit of breathing, hmm... sounds like a survival mechanism? (SARCASM) If You thinking that You are God Please try(dont) to stop breathing, show the middle finger to this universe and show that You won't play along by its rules and see how it will punish You.

These are the ones i came up so far, feel free to add ones you found, and discuss these: Facing your Fear-> goes against all of our body's mechanisms for safety and survival, literally the opposite of survival Suicide-> self explanatory the ACT of meditation, not the habit-> during the act itself of meditating, basically were overriding our survival instincts by letting go of thoughts we were meant to cling onto, letting go of emotions, in the case of strong determination sits you resist the urges to adjust your posture, move your limbs slightly, etc. This is just referring to pure meditation, because sometimes we do get caught up in monkey mind, sometimes we to unconsciously adjust our back, etc, but were not meditating during that instant. The habit of mediation can be seen as survival since we see it as a self improvement method or as a way to enlightenment, which is to seek the moment when suffering stops. Unconditional Love-> I intellectually know that this isnt survival since to have unconditional love you stop caring what will happen but i dont fully understand it since i havent experienced it yet

1) This is horribly, horribly wrong. Music done right is one of the LARGEST influences on the human psyche. You are laughably underestimating the power of music. You don't know how many people were on the verge of suicide, but realized there was a spark of hope when listening to their favorite artist. You don't know how many people have cried to songs that mean something to them in times of need (post breakup, after a loved one dies, etc.) The feeling of connection that music brings about is unreal. It can give you hope in the darkest time, comfort in the loneliest times, and it can even get you to self reflect in ways you would never have done otherwise had you not shut up and listened. It's meditative, in a sense; when you listen to a tune it replaces your monkey mind for a few minutes and higher insights can arrive to you in that moment. I remember in high school having a devastating fight with my mom, and thinking to my self "god, she's such a bitch I hate her." Then, out of inspiration I put on my "sad music" playlist and began weeping as I realized what a devil I had been, demonizing my mom when really all she wanted was the best for me. But I was so busy thinking "ME ME ME" that I couldn't see her perspective. Sure, planting a tree might have a more obvious effect than someone playing music, but trust me. Music can move mountains in its own subtle way. Few things are as PERSONAL as music. 2) Refer to my comment above. It's a wonderful personal example of music "raising consciousness." It's on the same level as doctors, if not higher. If you can not open your mind to this, you do not understand the human psyche as well as you think you do. Now, obviously, you could still be a trashy musician and there's a chance that your music will reach nobody. In that case, obviously, planting trees for a living would be far more effective if you are going for impact. But that's not a valid reason to dismiss music. For any aspiring musician @kamill my advice is this: Ask yourself EXACTLY what impact your music has. Every day, for the rest of your life. If your music is not moving mountains, keep refining it until it does! This is not an overnight process. Nobody said it will be easy. Do your research, perfect your craft, and put yourself out there.

I think I have heard Leo say that. You have to want to know the Truth badly enough that you are willing to die/suicide? I mean, I like the idea of knowing the Truth, as long as it doesn't inconvenience me or my lifes existence.

@SageModeAustin I have read through this drama of a thread over a couple of days. First of all. Chill dude. It's just a girl. I know I know. This is like saying "just do it" and expecting someone to know what that means. However girls come and go, they literally do like leaves in the wind. Nothing you can do in retrospect other than to be a bit more conscious about what parts of yourself you show to girls in the first few months. Your experience with Brooke reminds me of my last girl. She had some issues, anti depressants and hard overreactions "like faking her suicide because her parents said something". She was unable to acknowledge the pain she was inflicting on the people around her. I started to write poems around that time to deal with all the pain this "relationship" was causing me. Here are a few lines I wrote around that time. Excerpts from a freeform-poem titled "A beautiful mind" A deep sense of love and compassion Pain too, so much pain and suffering But I will not close my heart I will not close down to the pain I will continue to try I will choose heaven every day I will leave the world a better place I will help the people that want my help I will leave the people that don't want to be helped I cannot help them I will continue to love them Even though I cannot help them I will focus on the people that I can help Someone else will do the job for the others I am not supposed to help In a way I extend my hand to everyone, friend or girlfriend. If they take it and let me pull them up, it is their choice. I think you should not actively try to change or help someone, or press too hard into the hurt parts of other people. I see it as a gift if they open up to me. But they are independent people and responsible for their own actions. We merge temporarily and of course I can infuse the girl with energy to strive for the better. But if she doesn't use it, I have done all I could. So have you. Relationships are a playground for rapid learning. It is not necessarily the most pleasant learning and it is often painful. Just hang in there. As long as you are aware of your emotions, acknowledge them and allow yourself to feel them you will move forwards. Relationships are not about thinking, they are not fabrications of the mind so there is not much point in trying to figure out what went wrong. Please don't blame yourself for a lost relationship. I lost my last one and was sad at first too. My current 3 months fwb relationship which might turn into a gf/bf thing is much deeper than my last one. So in a way you might be thankful in retrospect like I am now.

I think these are very unhealthy beliefs. Depressed people think things like that. And that's why they don't shower, either don't eat or eat junk food, and this complete lack of meaning and negative nihilism motivates them to commit suicide. You are misunderstanding what meaninglessness, and the "emptiness" that the Buddha talked about are... it seems as though you're giving it a negative connotation. But it is neutral. ??????? I highly recommend you try to find a good psychologist and a good psychiatrist so that you can check with a professional how both your psychology and how your mental health are. Many people graduate in psychology or psychiatry because they are not humble enough to go to one themselves. It takes a lot of humility to admit to yourself that you need professional help. The ego things it can solve everything by itself. for example, I myself got into psychology at college because subconsciously I didn't want to go to therapy. I wanted to heal myself by myself. FYI: do not fall into the trap of demonizing your ego. A sense of self (aka ego) is necessary for our survival. If it wasn't for the ego, you would jump off of a cliff, for instance. Just keep in mind that we are all inter-dependent. Like it or not, we need others. If you're interested in reading more about my healing journey, check out my personal journal here on the forum. It is called "Keeping track of my depression". Best of luck! ?

@Devansh Saharan Why I am going to school college ? Why should I study ? What if I die before completing my studies ????? ------------------------------ Spiritually gifted - Grace of the divine. Ramana Maharishi - had intense fear if death for no reasons and his sense of self vanished when he attempted to enquire what is death. Eckhart Tolle was deeply suffering from depression wanted to commit suicide and the sense of self vanished. Ramana Maharishi or Tolle never strived for liberation by grace it happened to them. Nisargadatta Maharaj's Guru said you are not this finite human.Attend the sense if self or IAM.He didnt ask any questions ? Why should I pursue spirituality ? What I will gain ? What if I die ? Is that waste of time ? Thats divine grace of acceptance of Gurus words.He trusted his gurus words sincerely practiced and realized truth. The purpose of life is realizing the hide and seek game of god playing on himself.Its called leela in Hinduism. Its worth the effort.Even if you die the karma wont go waste.If not in this life next life you will realize truth. -------------------------------- Atleast yoga meditation will give you good mental and physical health. --------------------------------

So if someone commits suicide in an attempt to escape suffering, does that mean they are in for some serious shit?

Yeah I was thinking that you could argue suicide is an ego-survival strategy for the reason you just explained @Inliytened1

@outlandish yah discovering you are God after pursuit of Truth..which is ego death. Suicide itself can actually be a survival strategy because the depressed person is trying to relieve the pain of life so in a sense that's a form of survival.

Suicide. Or complete, full ego death.

Hello everyone, with the words of this post I would love to share with you my unique perspective on reality - commenting and criticism is very welcome. So, let's begin. I have just watched year 2017 video from Leo on paranormal and psychic stuff. And I have come to realise that perhaps a certain perspective fragment is missing in Leo's research, since he is a healthy individual with no mental illness as far as I know. Maybe I am deluded in the upcoming sentences, you as the reader can decide that for yourself. So far I have experienced one psychotic episode - in the year 2017. I am currently still taking antipsychotic medication (Quetiapin) in "minimal" doses. My current situation is stabilised. Enough details, let's get to the suicide invoking horror stuff you guys might want to read about - the psychotic episode: Now as I reflect on it, I had experienced total loss of control - my thought process was totally f*cked since the serotine and I believe even dopamine levels in my brain went through the roof. As far as my feelings tell me I was following this deluded train of thought and behaved in very random ways. Doing pseudorandomly seeming stuff that was based on my subconscious desires and unmet needs (and more) - buying weird stuff, writing and drawing word salad and even saying some paranoid nonsense of being followed and spied on. My memory of this episode is highly fragmented. Words I was using WERE NO PROOF THAT WHAT I TOLD AND WRITTEN THAT I PERCEIVED WAS HAPPENING WAS REALLY HAPPENING... Rather than that, I was sorta this monkey that writes random stuff on computer and in infinite amount of time writes this way everything true (and also false) there is to be written. This random typing machine monkey doesn't actually write about the monkey's true perceptions of reality. Just because a monkey writes that it is spied on doesn't mean that the monkey sees physical spies as real. Some schizophreniacs may definitely experience some hallucinated stuff as real but this is not always the case. It wasn't mine. I just believed and written some nonsensical stuff - AND I have no memory of actually hallucinating this belief as "REAL OBJECT" like a person taking drugs might. No houses changing shape or dragons, zero of this. With this hopefully not too confusing metaphor I attempt to decrease the value of statements about reality from large number of schizophreniacs. (or other generally speaking deluded people) A little bit about me: I have been holding to the materialistic paradigm until I lost my mind, and embraced nondualism as valid (even if just partially, still not fully- because I see a lot of pitfall delusions in nondualism) this very month (5.2019). With the following I also attempt to explain certain delusion phenomena happening inside people's brains in a materialistic fashion. My opinion: A person can be in such state of mind that this person believes that some insight and perception is entirely true and believes in great amount of evidence that seemingly supports it and is still deluded. The vast majority of people are so deluded, that what they are saying has no value whatsoever. Even people without mental illnesses. Thus I suggest that as much as radical open-mindedness is healthier than stubborn close mindedness, there are still certain fallacies in the perception of reality of an open approach - these fallacies are based on not appreciating the statistical and random nature of reality enough. => THE KERNEL OF TRUTH IS SMALLER THAN YOU THINK. I posted today on YouTube about what I believe about healing abilities: Quote:"I personally see healing as psychological phenomena, working thanks to great understanding of emotions and intuition that grand the healer the power to change how the person that is being healed feels. Since a lot of suffering is happening in the minds of people. Backache might suddenly disappear, light depression and stuff like that. In this I see the kernel of truth. And it would be shame to underestimate the value of such healing in real life. On the other hand, the idea that certain "physical disease" suddenly goes away with a hand gesture and few words sounds very silly to me. As much as the reality is a hallucination, it still follows certain mostly unknown weird partially statistical "physical laws" ... These are my two cents here. May the Force be with you all :)" Adding: Schizophrenia as such is not something that goes away with a hand gesture for example. It never goes away. Schizophreniacs that say are healed are purely in the remission state and are deluded. This time not because of high neurotransmitter levels, but because they lie to themselves and others as a survival coping mechanism. A schizophreniac that has a job, a family, good relationships, all after years of rehabilitation, is still a schizophreniac. The so called positive symptoms of the illness are likely gone, thanks to medication and time having passed but the negative symptoms linger. And it is these negative symptoms like broken motivational system that may over time decrease a bit, but never truly go away. The life sucks every day.... But if you feel horror every day for years, you don't even remember how you felt before the first psychotic episode. It becomes the norm. Living hell. This hell is very very real - I experience this every day. Right now I am looking forward a bit to the day I stop taking antipsychotic medication and "deblock" my mind. Allow my neurotransmitters freedom again. Many schizophreniacs never ever get to experience this in a long term way, because they would get another psychotic episode as a result. I know schizophreniacs that got psychotic episodes even though they took more antipsychotics than I currently do. Their brains are even more fucked up than mine. So, as much as schizophrenia is extremely hard to measure on scientific devices - it is very real - I have a very distorted perception of reality since I have this feeling pretty much all the time that is extremely weird and hellish, I can't describe it to anyone. I may have been a walking zombie living in the world of concepts before my first psychotic episode (2017) but at least I was sorta healthy. I hope this feeling goes away once I don't have any meds but I don't believe it is like that. Even though the side effects of antipsychotics are harsh, I don't believe they are responsible for this weird feeling, just for the blocked mind feeling I have all the time and tension in the legs. I am speculating here a bit of course, since I have not stopped taking the meds yet... I guess time will tell. Looking forward to your responses. Feel free to ask me questions and criticise. May the Force be with you :-) :-)

Las thurday i had a har anxiety-attack at work. It was a very stressful week with lot of challenges, I took a coffe after dinner and all the afternoon I was dizzy, with hedache, nausea, my heart was racing and a lot of heat. When I arrived home vomited and had to take ibuprofen and go to bed. I work as a CNC mill, its creating complex metal pieces with computer and the execute it. I just studied a course of analogic milling and my friend said to me, come to where I work, dont worry about CNC I will show you. The first monthes he teached me, but now a year ago when I ask for help to him for some difficult things he asks me rude and say you should know it, and always with bad manners. I have a really bad time at work, nothing works fine, the machine break down and ask for help, and instead of helping me my friend give me a notepad with some instructions which obviously look like chinese to me. While current people go to work, I dont go to work, I go to fight against problems that exceed my level and this is draining me and making me sad. I dont contemplate suicide because Im actualized enough to be grateful and value life, but I actually hate my life. I win lot of money but its costing my health and happiness. last day I was gonna give up. sometimes I think Id be better in a shitty job like mdonadls or cleaning earning half the salary but with zero problems and responsabilities. Some advice will be appreciated. I dont give the job because I dont have anything.

I for one hope you don't leave the forum. There seems to be a few threads at the moment with the theme of "see ya later". I know we have to look after our own wellbeing and this forum, like probably all the others, can probably seem vicious at times, and wonderfully compassionate and openminded at other times. I'm new here, and am slowly trying to change the way I develop and make myself a better version of me. In my ideal world this forum would help facilitate people of all faith's and beliefs to flourish. I'm not aware I had to agree to any one belief when I registered? I don't know who the fuck God is right now. I know I believe in something. I know there is more to life than just what we can sense. When I first lurked around this forum I thought Leo was possibly on the brink of suicide. I thought he seemed massively mentally ill with a drug addiction. I felt sorry for him. I thought who the fuck does a 3 hour vlog, and then who the fuck would do loads of 3hr vlogs like it was normal. I thought this place was full of nerds who type a good story but probably live in complete hell and misery. I think different now and finally signed up. I still think Leo is an acquired taste somewhat, but I know there is huge wisdom in him and others that I want to try and tap into. I am still battling what could be my ignorance around psychedelics. People claiming to have wonderful experiences when off their face on drugs. Well that's what drugs are for I thought? To get shit faced. To feel good. To fill a gap of emptiness. Why are these people thinking they are somehow different to other people who misuse substances. Anyway, basically I am becoming more openminded and less judgemental and this forum is teaching me that. I've seen people posting about being really hurt by the content and discussion on here. Some people stating up front they are hurt and others kind of lashing out and making a statement about disappearing or leaving, either temporarily or permanently. Perhaps the people quitting the forum have as much to offer as the ones who ride everything out and stick around. It says something for the human condition and perhaps it has to be this way, that even on a forum like this, discussion can quickly turn into a "my belief is better than your belief, let me hammer that home until you accept it". This forum is like the world at large.... some people claim to have "The Truth". Who is crazy and deluded? Well that depends on who you ask..... you ask on this forum you will probably get a different answer than if you ask a health professional. Who is right? I don't fucking know actually! I'm trying to keep an open mind.... Man on the street claims to be God.... get's hospitalised.... man running a self-development forum claims to be God (I know it's not as simple as my comparison here!), get's respect and adulation. Man on the street takes mind altering drugs to feel a certain way gets told he is wrong and maybe a junkie, man on the forum doing the same thing ,doing it for self-development, and it seems like doing drugs is as normal as making yourself two slices of toast for breakfast. I'm on this forum to try and take myself up a level (or 10). It's obvious the human condition still hunts us down and takes control a lot of the time. We are all infected with this thing called the human condition and probably the best we can do is control the symptoms (perhaps, I hope there is more to it than that). I'm new here remember, I will make lots of mistakes I am sure. I've clocked a few members who post all the time. One post of theirs is compassionate and complaining others are too harsh. Their next post is toward someone they disagree with and they seem almost like a complete different person. One post is compassion, the next is harsh judgment and what almost seems like oppression. I'm not going to mention names because that would be pointless as we all probably do it to one level or another. I know I do in life all the time. I hate doing it, but it's still happening. I believe character traits nearly always depend on circumstances. If I can minimise this and have consistently favorable character traits in as many different circumstances as possible, then I'll be happy. How many of us are this example below? Favorable circumstances, people seem to do what I want and agree with me... I'm all powerful, all forgiving, all compassionate, all understanding Trying circumstances, people not doing what they are told, people offending me.... I'll be a cu**, fuck them, they will pay. How dare they. Once I have dished out the required punishment, and justice has been done, i'll slip right back to Mr Nice Guy. I'll be Buddha again. I am at peace! As Russell Brand would say "Be nice and don't fuck anyone over".

Ok.... wait I think suffering can help, as a way to scape to the idea that we are suffering, If we had some religious or spiritual background. If there's not that background in your family or in yourself. (Or you weren't interested in spirituality) then you can stay in a loop, that can make you think the only scape is suicide... or can give you a chronic depression, or other symptoms, who knows? Is it better now?

I think suffering can help as a way to scape to that idea that we are suffering if we have had some religious or spiritual background before. If there's not that background in your family or in yourself (you weren't interested in spirituality) then you can stay in a loop that the only scape can be suicide or chronic depression, or other symptoms, who knows?