Michael569

too complicated, too many steps. No need to fry and no need to sit. Just blitz it all with some tahini, herbs and oat milk and bake seriously tho, homemade plant burgers are the easiest thing and they are way more delicious than any meat I have ever tasted. Once you master your own, anything out there doesn't come close to it and you can even avoid the #toxicseedoilzconspiracy

Could you get some from local farms, local stores etc? Fresh is usually better as dried can often be treated with sulphates and often has a glazing of added sugar as mentioned above. Alternatively, are there any deliveries you could do? Like have bulk fruits and veg delivered, the types that last for a while? Dried fruit is fine but I think if you can get fresh at least some days, it might be better

Unit 731 - one of the biggest (and lesser known) examples of what humans are capable of to eachother the moment you strip away the threat of capital punishment. Not that long ago

@Leo Gura ok what about this one. Where do you draw the line with your personal ethics in business? What I mean is as a business owner, you'll encounter a lot of offers and ethical conundrums some of them very corruptive some of them a bit less and few which are somewhere at the edge of personal integrity. Do you avoid everything that doesn't align with your ethical compass? Or do you sometimes take the path of lesser evil if it could mean being able to do your work better in the future? I'm struggling to come up with particular examples. I think this is more of an epistemological question. "How strong do you adhere to your ethics in business"- basically that's the question.

you're probably fine - I wouldn't necessarily blast your gut with herbs forever There will always be small colonies of parasitic species among other microbes as a part of your microbiome but a healthy immune system should prevent them from going crazy. Personally, I think any form of overgrowth, chronic bacterial, viral, or fungal issues are nearly always linked to a weak immune system and/or gut dysbiosis. . These microbes are living in your body, they are an inseparable part of your gut ecosystem and there is nothing you can do about that other than nuking the entire microbiome which wouldn't be wise, but there are many systems in place, including other colonies of beneficial bacteria that kind help monitor the situation - this is why you need to eat foods that grow beneficial colonies and slow down the growth of harmful one (e.g. plants and fibre rich foods) IMO the biggest disadvantage of following something like a carnivore diet or basically any form of low-fibre diet is the gradual devastation of the good microbiome colonies and overgrowth of all sorts of devilish ones. In addition ther eis the risk of losing the thickness of the intestinal mucosal lining which may be causing gradual approximation between the microbiota and your gut immune system (they should not be close to each other and the mucous is preventing that - what destroys mucous? -> low fibre diets -> what happens after mucous is so thin that your immune system starts attacking your microbiota species? -> autoimmunity? cancer? candida?- who knows. The evidence is uncertain on this and the research is basically garbage right now but it is slowly growing and starting to point a certain direction. This is why I'll always be advocating plant-heavy diets, even for people who seem to be having hard time digesting fibre - you just gotta be patient enough for the gut to adapt and not give up on it and do something insane like going for a life-long carnivore diet. if it takes 2 years to go from not being able to eat fibre to being ok eating it, it is worth it. Anyways, sorry longer response than you asked but I thought it was worth mentioning the bigger picture for anyone else reading this because we seem to be too eager to jump on these extreme bandwagons Interesting article; thanks for sharing. I still think that the majority of those fresh produce contaminants are coming form fertilisers containing cow faeces and being treated by contaminated water happening mostly in developing countries. The article did not separate to what degree these things are relevant in the West; they just pooled it all together. Those 2500 cases in Europe per year are small threat (in my opinion) to stop eating fresh produce, just wash it properly. I mean, you can eat mango that was washed in tap water in Thailand or Kenya and spend your holiday with diarrhoea - unlikely that would happen in Europe where we sterilised our water and all produce is washed and treated.

EDIT: previous comment got split weird on my phone - continued here. . . I mean, think about it. What are pregnant women discouraged from eating? Raw meat. Why? Because it carries major parasitic risk potentially lethal to the fetus. They are also advised to eat more fruit and vegetables. If those were so contaminated, there would have been a warning...and there isn't because claims such as the girl above is making are just nonsense. I mean sure, if you're unlucky you'll get something from unwashed salad bathed in manure but the amount of hygiene supermarket foods goes through, the chances are almost non existent in developed countries Yet charlatans like these recommending antiparasitic preventive protocols without previous tests, making 1000s of dollars on fear and nativity and suffering of others, couldn't care less. In fact they take proactive measures to ignore the evidence. It saddens me because she is a nutritionist and people like her contaminate the industry with quackery and destroy the credibility with their selfish fuckery.......but what can we do.

@PurpleTree any article that drops a bomb such as "buy these two overpriced antiparasitic tinctures for $80"gets an instant red flag. No references at all, no evidence for anything she says. You would assume that considering public food safety is top priority of agencies like FDA na European Food Safety Agency, these would have been well documented. Sure, in developing countries where water is contaminated with feces that's probably common but i doubt it happens a lot on the West And then she drops this one:

You guys are actually having worms crawling around in your excrement? Jesus f-ing Christ!!! I would imagine anything like that gets under a nuclear warfare by your microbiome, immune system, Payer's patches and pretty much everything in your body designed to protect you The fact that they survived probably says something about the state of your immune system and intestinal flora. Time to go hardcore on microbiome support & immune system - more than anything else. And maybe not touching stuff like pork or sushi...especially if your immune system is compromised. I would even consider becoming vegetarian (permanently) for anyone with recurring parasitic problems. Don't mock around with herbs if your shit is moving in the toilet - go to the doctor and nuke it all. Do damage control later. Herbs are weak once there is a significant parasitic overgrowth, sometimes you need to go heavy.

I'm not gonna elaborate further on this point otherwise I may give away details of my billion-dollar vegan burger enterprise I'm building at the background of this forum and slowly looking to start selling you guys samples. As for the rest of the response, it would take us hours and hours to discuss each of them individually even on a debate so let's just agree to disagree. Thanks for the arguments tho, I'll watch the video you recommended.

Hope you know what you're doing - pharmacologically induced stability is not the same as natural mental stability. MeO is not a pharma drug but it does have pharmacodynamic properties that can interact with all sort of stuff Take care

< moved to Dating & Relationships section >

That's a nice assumption based on zero background information. But since we sank to the level of punching below the waistline, I'll entertain the argument. Are you suggesting that people need to be vegan to enjoy vegan products like mock meats? Also, are you saying that these foods are nothing but trash and that nobody can benefit from them? Would you say eating beef burgers instead is better? So far you have not presented any argument for how this stuff is unhealthy. It seems to me that you might be a science denier since you labelled evidence as corrupted and best-to-ignore, which is what evidence deniers usually do. If I am wrong then the burden of your claim is to provide evidence that shows vegan burgers (or seed oils as a matter of fact) are unhealthy. That or not making claims as you did in your initial post. You have to prepare to be challenged and your response cannot be "because I said so" Previously seed oils were the bad stuff but now @Twega even shared to you two videos that are actually deeply researched by a guy who clearly has no agenda and who does incredible amount of due diligence for his content. Did that help to persuade you on the topic of seed oils? Would you like us to share more content like this? From people who actually bother to investigate and don't just trash talk for the shits and giggles? You keep bringing up the word "chemicals" - when was the last time you checked the ingredients list on Beyond Burger? - I see no chemicals; there are just a bunch of starches, plant proteins, spices and some plant fats. How are any of those chemicals? I mean sure, we could use mushrooms, onions and tahini and make it even better but does that mean what currently is, should be considered trash? It is obviously you've never tried to make a plant patty at home to see how ridiculously easy that is (without chemicals!!). What they do ain't that different, they just use more concentrates like purees, spices and plant oils for obvious economic reasons. How is that any bad? What do you even mean by chemicals? Plant burgers are not loaded with freaking toluene and benzene if that's what you mean by chemicals. # But granted, some of them can be of shitty quality, it is a burden of the buyer to pick the right ones. Some manufacturers got lazy, we should not support those./ So back to the baseline - what is the argument for saying vegan burgers are bad and unhealthy (all things being equal)? Again, no personal attacks on your intelligence, on your background or on your education Bobby, just challenging your views and trying to open your mind to a perspective that vegan meats can, conditionally, be healthy, for some people, in some situations where total calories are accounted for and that they are not unhealthy for others. Before we wrap up, let me give you my position on plant burgers (the higher quality ones like Beyond Meat) and tell me to what degree you disagree Vegan burgers are conditionally healthy for people coming from a diet that includes beef burgers , many of which might be prediabetic, overweight and have increased risk of heart disease Vegan Burgers are helpful for those who consume typical western diet and are not able to switch ton healthier foods nor lifestyles easily due to poor education, peer pressure or background Vegan Burgers have seed oils but that makes them healthier than beef burgers loaded with saturated fats (and real chemicals used for preservation such as nitrites) they are not necessary for a person who eats a healthy wholefood diet (omnivore or plant-based) and there is probably no additional benefit if this person eats vegan burgers they can help poorly nutritionally educated ethical vegans get their protein & their calories & iron levels up and prevent problems like anaemia, protein deficiency and basic malnourishment they may help reduce the consumption of beef which has a massive global footprint they are not loaded with chemicals, although a few manufacturers could do a better job by using for example beans or flax seeds rather than starches for thickening Eating vegan burgers opens up people to make other changes such as going for sugar-free drinks, sweet potato fries and low-sugar ketchup. Once you make one change, the next change comes with less resistance. Encouraging consumption of vegan burgers as a part of public health guidelines could, for a small amount of the population help drive down the risk of colorectal cancer and heart disease because it would lead to eating more fibre, less processed meat, less red meat and more salt. Thoughts?

Ofcourse - demand & supply , basic rule of economics. But more people are now buying fruits and vegetables than 30 years ago and more people buy gym memberships so it incentivises more gyms being built, doesn't mean that exercise is bad does it? If powerful corporations who have the budget to deliver this food, market it to masses and use their supply chain are not going to do it, who will? I don't think there is anything inherently bad about Mcdonalds serving plant burgers as long as people are willing to buy it. If it keeps people away from buying processed beef then that's good. How do you otherwise incentivise the low consciousness populus to even try to be healthier if all they here is "toxic toxic toxic"!!! everytime they even google something like Beyond Burger. These people need to be handheld across baby steps. They're not gonna go and start making lentil falafels with salads - that's just unattainable for them. And I think people with such an influence and such as following and trust as you have should speak less in extremes and be more open to the occasional gray area Dunno, maybe I'm talking shit. Open to being wrong about this but all I'm hearing is a lot of trashing from you guys that's not based on anything else than out of hand dismissal. Like you said longn time ago," sometimes there are diamonds to be found in the pile of shit. "

Let's not forget that these products are not being developed and aimed for the average member of this forum who is a self-optimisation freak It's the artificial sweetener argument once again A healthy, fit person who eats a wholefood diet does not need this stuff nor do they benefit from it - duuh To a person with major blood lipid issues (high ApoB, high LDL, low HDL, high triglycerides) who has no control over their diet, is overweight, pre-diabetic who eats beef burgers 3 times a week (e.g. a significant % of British & American boomer & Gen X populus), if you can give him a plant burger that tastes the same but now it comes alongside zero coke, vegan mayo with reduced saturated fats and sweet potato chips with reduced salt you bet your life they're gonna get better lipid readings, betetr blood sugar and lower risk of bowel cancer (as long as they don't go over the calories). This is absolutely undisputable. And this reduces medical expenses, premature mortality and disability This is why these products are being developed ↑ - to reduce global burden of disease. Just because, you me or anyone else on this forum is not a target group for mock meats and vegan burgers, doesn't justify us saying that this is all crap. It is a health promoting food for a large part of the population but since the other part is actively talking trash about it, even those who could benefit from it are going to ignore it and so the problems remain

Interesting, thanks for sharing. I'm not super clear on how to exactly interpret results of experimental trials like these Their methodology description does not seem the same as you would use it in real life. Is having a 90 degrees liquid in there for 15 minutes the same as putting 4% acetic acid for 24 hours? "Leaching tests were done following ASTM C738-94 (2006) using 4% acetic acid as the test simulant. Accurately measured 250 mL of 4% acetic acid solution was poured into each of the ceramic foodwares and covered with aluminum foil. Samples were left undisturbed for 24 h at room temperature" Obviously if you pour acids on stuff, things well start getting corroded . Good to know this is being looked into but curious is this is a like for like comparable situation with real life. That being said, if glass is safer then I see no issue in that transition.