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Its funny there are a few videos questioning him but there are way more saying hes innocent especially o reels and im guessing tiktok (im not on there) There are some wild theories, one is the Jews set him up because he spoke up for palestine. People also saying he protected children from abuse by Epstein, thats like a lion saving you from a bear 😂 But its mad the mental gymnastics, occoms razor definitely applies here

This is my main point overall, the grace people give him is actually insane. A lot of people in the uk talk about how could Jimmy Saville get away with what he did, this is how, people enabling it and not wanting to see what could be true. Another thing that struck me is MJ does definitely lie about things, he maybe deluded and not consciously do it I dont know. Hes claimed hes only ever had 1 nose job to help him breathe, I mean we dont have to do much research to refute that. He also claims hos kids are biologically his, despite the fact they are basically white and when you look at nieces and nephews who had a white parent, they are undeniably mixed with brown skin. Yet his fans comments about his kids are things like 'hes got Michael's smile' or 'she looks like her grandma'. Its like a massive psychosis. But what it tells you is even on these things MJ would lie and his fans would go along with it, the delusion extending to the potential abuse isn't that much of a stretch.

@Hojo (still cant get rid) New 60 mins Aus doc on MJ allegedly abusing a whole family

Also btw the money angle goes both ways, his estate has millions on MJ not being guilty, there is a whole industry behind it, many jobs etc. From the films, theatre shows, streams, record sales etc. There is money to made discrediting him as well but i think it pales in comparison

Sheriff who raided neverland. Notice the comments automatically dismissing her

This is definitely true although i think in the case of MJ its not just the music, there is a parasocial love for him as a person, they almost see him as pure innocence and a model for how everyone should be. Any questioning of that is a questioning of innocence and goodness itself, which is ironic considering that if he has done committed these crimes, he wouldve actually destroyed the innocence of these kids. But also this isnt really unique to MJ, its basically what happens when you elevate someone to an almost god like level, which MJ definitely played into with how he was presented. All these people can do no wrong to their followers Trump, Manson etc. Even now people are excusing Russell Brand for sleeping with a 16 year old when he was 30. Its funny because one of the 10 commandments specifically says dont make false idols of me, you can see the wisdom in that and the damage that can be done with false idols. Man is to flawed to have that much reverence and power.

@Hojo (cant get this tag off) @Monster Energy i think its quite telling in that video how he puts the blame on the kid, hes like 'the kids want to stay with me, what could i do?'. Any normal adult would know that there has to be boundaries, imagine on a school trip, a 10 year old kid said to their teacher 'i want to sleep in the bed with you' and the school teacher was like 'what could I do, they wanted to do it'. That would not fly anywhere. Separately I found this video really interesting from his ex-publicist who doesnt seem to have anything to gain financially from telling his story -

@Hojo looking into it briefly gandhis behaviour was very problematic even at the time, apparently a lot of staff quit in protest and people thought that he'd gone crazy. People probably felt similar to how they felt with mj. Specifically it cant be 0% or 100% from our perspective because theres no silver bullet, theres a lot of smoke. If there was a video or some indisputable proof then you could be 100%. Its harder to be 0% because something else could always come out and theres enough things that are murky. Its not really black or white pun intended.

Interesting, theres definitely a narrative where he could be innocent. The issue is the parents of the initial accusers are not credible at all, he has very weird and eccentric behaviours. Were they taking advantage of a rich eccentric guy, was he taking advantage of them? This is why so many rape cases are hard to prove, it does come down to one narrative vs the other

Well i mean he wasnt completely crazy, he obviously knew how it would be seen and that its illegal. It would be more along the lines of him telling the boys that people wont understand our love and that they shouldnt tell anyone, which is what pedophiles would say. Its kinda if you were gay and your family was homophobic and they would disown you if they found out, you're not going to come and say youre gay. Testimony from his case. The flight stuff is in this news report - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jackos-wine-only-in-soda-cans/ Found the passenger profile - https://www.reddit.com/r/interesting/comments/1hbcgan/a_passenger_profile_on_michael_jackson_the_king/

Yeah all the accusers say that he gave them porn and wine, plus some of his staff has have corroborated it. He called it Jesus Juice apparently and used to give to them in soda cans. Theres also records from a chartered flight that he took where there was a request for wine served in diet coke cans. Gavin, one of the accusers knew exactly where his porn stash was in a suitcase in mjs room, which was raided and matched what he said

This is the thing, pedophiles feel romantic love for children, they dont think theyre harming them. There are some people that abuse children because of domination or cruelty but thats a different mentality. A true pedophile would feel romantic and sexual love the same way you might for someone you love of the opposite or same sex. MJ if we take the perspective that he was a pedophile, would admit it because he sees nothing wrong with it and doesnt want to lie about his love for whichever kid he was talking about. Also if you look at the patterns, he would have a 'favourite kid' for a certain amount of time, then that kid would get replaced when they got a bit older for a younger one. This seems very distinct from just playing around with kids that might visit the neverland ranch. The treatment for pedophiles is to make them realise that they cant have a 2 way relationship with a young person and that that young person can not consent or love them in the way they think they can. So if you happen to have been one of the most famous people in the world and a pedophile and can have access to young kids it would be extremely likely they you may abuse them because you can. As @Leo Gura says and I've pointed out in the op he didnt seem to have any meaningful relationships with adult women or men, his brothers and sisters definitely did despite them all being jehovahs witnesses. So the options are either asexual or pedophile, its not impossible that hes asexual i guess but i think with all the other information its unlikely

I dont agree with vilifying pedophiles, but obviously they need either to be isolated from kids if theres a risk of abuse and/or need psychological help. A lot of them have been subject to abuse themselves, which creates a cycle. We can say yeah in a perfect society no one would want to abuse or attack someone else but we have to deal with the reality of what life is now. Protecting children by having safeguards with adults that arent related to them is not vilifying pedophiles. The fact is they do exist, its like saying we should have no security at banks because we don't want to demonise thieves. Its very possible to try and improve the level of consciousness of a society whilst also protecting the most vulnerable.

I think its about risk management and safety not about our 'minds' and society itself is aware of this danger which is why it protects against it. Objectively, in society, we acknowledge that we cant have random adults around young people this is why even to work with kids there has to be a dbs check and safeguarding procedures in place to protect the kids. It doesnt mean that if a random adult is around a kid they'll definitely abuse or manipulate them but it heightens the risk as there is opportunity. This is also why so much abuse comes from the home because the adults in the family, in theory dont have to undergo any checks, whereas in professional environments there are more guard rails. So in the case of MJ, having kids stay in an adult males room without parents and behind a locked door is something that is incredibly risky from a child protection point of view. It doesnt mean something definitely happened but its not something that should really be allowed to happen because of the risks involved.