Stage Yellow vs Stage Green Triggers

[soos_mite_ah]

I was rewatching both of the spiral dynamics videos and I'm trying to pinpoint the difference between being triggered at yellow vs being triggered at green. If you need a refresher of what the triggers are, I found a couple of good posts that highlights it so that you don't have to shift through the original videos: 

Here is a short list of some Stage Green triggers: 

• Injustice and inequality
• Oppression of minorities
• The status quo and hierarchies of power
• When religion is used to justify oppression
• Human rights abuses
• Racism
• Bigotry
• Fascism
• Neo-Nazis
• The K K K
• Unchecked capitalism
• Consumerism
• Corporate Greed

Here is a short list of Stage Yellow triggers: 

• The blindness and infighting of tier 1
• Yellow will feel frustrated of the lack of progress and backwardness that exists all around the world! As a Yellow person you will rarely find likeminded individuals, you won't be represented in the media, on the internet, in politics, you have to be prepared for a world which isn't ready to accommodate you!
• Black and white thinking, because Yellow is exactly the opposite which is means Yellow is a nuanced thinker
• Non-Systemic thinking, people who think too short term
• Excessive rationalism, reductionism, scientism
• People who turn science into a religion or dogma
• Frustrated will all kinds of dogmatic and ideological people
• Conformity and groupthink
• Polarization
• Demonization
• Radicals and radicalization
• People who don't understand spiral dynamics
• Consumerism and profiteering
• Religion can trigger Yellow

I guess my thing is that if a stage yellow person is triggered by demonization and the infighting of tier 1, wouldn't that also yield them to be triggered at the face of racism, human rights abuses, and the KKK since those are forms of demonization and by products of the infighting of tier 1? I'm sure there is some overlap (consumerism shows up in both for instance) between what triggers green vs what triggers yellow since we're in a very stage orange and blue heavy world. But I'm just trying to draw the distinctions between the two stages.

Is it the degree of emotionality they exhibit when they are "triggered." How are we defining being "triggered?" Is it the way that they conduct themselves and utilize things like conflict resolution and conflict management skills? 

[aurum]

3 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I guess my thing is that if a stage yellow person is triggered by demonization and the infighting of tier 1, wouldn't that also yield them to be triggered at the face of racism, human rights abuses, and the KKK since those are forms of demonization and by products of the infighting of tier 1?

It's different because the Yellow perspective is more meta and integrated.

At Green, you're triggered by the KKK because they go against your values (multiculturalism, tolerance, etc).

At Yellow, you're more so triggered by the entire game of politics being played. So you might be triggered by the KKK and multiculturalists fighting, not just the individual sides.

Yellow begins to step away from taking sides as much. You're less in the culture war and more of an observer, integrating all the various sides and perspectives.

[Leo Gura]

I'm definitely more triggered by watching Tier 1 stupidity playing out across media than I triggered by the KKK or racism.

Because KKK and racism is too obvious and also quite rare. Meanwhile Tier 1 stupidity is everywhere. How much racism do I run into on Youtube? Very little.

Edited Saturday at 02:16 AM by Leo Gura

[soos_mite_ah]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm definitely more triggered by watching Tier 1 stupidity playing out across media than I triggered by the KKK or racism.

But isn't racism for example one of the many forms of Tier 1 stupidity? Or are you saying that a general, common sense of stupidity is more triggering than edge cases that you don't tend to find out in the wild that often?

[Leo Gura]

What's triggering is watching 95% of the population speak about worldviews and ideologies without any awareness of the perspectival nature of reality and that all they are doing is blindly defending a perspective without any awareness that it's mostly just group-think.

Watching some leftist behave as if leftism is something intelligent or original and not just another form of group-think. And then not even being able explain to them the error they are making because they are so lost in their little epistemic bubble that they cannot even listen.

Outrage goes towards the things which are closest to you. How often to I see the KKK? Never. Maybe if I lived in Alabama I would care more.

Edited Saturday at 02:27 AM by Leo Gura

[soos_mite_ah]

12 minutes ago, aurum said:

At Yellow, you're more so triggered by the entire game of politics being played. So you might be triggered by the KKK and multiculturalists fighting, not just the individual sides.

That makes sense. It's more about the dynamics and the conflict itself rather than the individuals at play from what I'm understanding. 

This is definitely a personal thing but I think I'm at a place where I can see a racist and not demonize them in the sense that I know that they are human beings who deserve basic rights and that there is a host of systemic reasons that yield a person to be like this. But if I was in a conversation with a KKK member and they start saying something crazy or they start yelling at me, I think I would freeze up and not know how to engage with that situation.

Also, just in general, when I find myself in situations like this where I can sense that someone is deeply entrenched in a toxic mindset or worldview, my instinct is to disengage and distance myself rather than trying to convince/ lecture them. Maybe that's me being triggered, or maybe that's the most effective way to deal with some people, idk. 

[Deziree]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What's triggering is watching 95% of the population speak about worldviews and ideologies without any awareness of the perspectival nature of reality and that all they are doing is blindly defending a perspective without any awareness that it's mostly just group-think.

This ^... Yellow is most triggered by group-think than anything else. Just knowing that most biases actually stem directly from group-think. So yellow is more triggered by the root rather than the outcome. 

[soos_mite_ah]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What's triggering is watching 95% of the population speak about worldviews and ideologies without any awareness of the perspectival nature of reality and that all they are doing is blindly defending a perspective without any awareness that it's mostly just group-think.

Watching some leftist behave as if leftism is something intelligent or original and not just another form of group-think. And then not even being able explain to them the error they are making because they are so lost in their little epistemic bubble that they cannot even listen.

Outrage goes towards the things which are closest to you. How often to I see the KKK? Never. Maybe if I lived in Alabama I would care more.

So it's more about the steps in which one took to latch on to a certain ideology (or the act of latching on to ideology itself) and not being able to epistemically back it up in a coherent, well thought out way, rather than the perspective itself? Because I've met leftists who are more well educated / integrated versus leftists who just picked up by their environment for example and it feels like a night and day difference in terms of interactions.

I guess it would also be the difference of proximity and actual liklihoood of harm. Like I'm afraid of serial killers and I don't want to encounter one but I'm not exactly panicing about it all the time where I have 50 locks in my house, I'm scared of going out at night,  or whatever the people who tend to binge on True Crime podcasts do lol.

Edited Saturday at 02:38 AM by soos_mite_ah

[aurum]

13 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

That makes sense. It's more about the dynamics and the conflict itself rather than the individuals at play from what I'm understanding. 

Right, because Yellow should have integrated both sides already.

Yellow would understand what the KKK gets right, why it exists and integrate that into its perspective.. 

13 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

This is definitely a personal thing but I think I'm at a place where I can see a racist and not demonize them in the sense that I know that they are human beings who deserve basic rights and that there is a host of systemic reasons that yield a person to be like this

Yellow would be deeper than that.

What you're describing is more tolerance / acceptance. That's not the same as integrating their perspective.

13 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

But if I was in a conversation with a KKK member and they start saying something crazy or they start yelling at me, I think I would freeze up and not know how to engage with that situation.

Also, just in general, when I find myself in situations like this where I can sense that someone is deeply entrenched in a toxic mindset or worldview, my instinct is to disengage and distance myself rather than trying to convince/ lecture them. Maybe that's me being triggered, or maybe that's the most effective way to deal with some people, idk. 

I'd say that's a safety / personal boundary situation.

You don't need to tolerate toxicity in your life. You can disengage from such people if you need to.

 

[RendHeaven]

31 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

This is definitely a personal thing but I think I'm at a place where I can see a racist and not demonize them in the sense that I know that they are human beings who deserve basic rights and that there is a host of systemic reasons that yield a person to be like this.

Try steelmanning them and recognizing that they are literally you in another skin. i.e. if we took you and placed you in their birth conditions with the same life trajectory, you would've turned out as a KKK member wholeheartedly.

32 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

my instinct is to disengage and distance myself rather than trying to convince/ lecture them.

Same. not worth it

[soos_mite_ah]

10 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

Try steelmanning them and recognizing that they are literally you in another skin. i.e. if we took you and placed you in their birth conditions with the same life trajectory, you would've turned out as a KKK member wholeheartedly.

I can see that. Funny enough, that's the same exercise I use whenever I'm dealing with someone difficult, KKK member or not. I'm not some how special because of the conclusions I have come to and the life path I have taken because if I was in a different situation with a different background and personality, I could've easily ended up like that. Hell, I'm sure I'll understand that in another life since I am the universe experiencing itself lol. 

19 minutes ago, aurum said:

What you're describing is more tolerance / acceptance. That's not the same as integrating their perspective.

How would you differentiate these two? 

19 minutes ago, aurum said:

I'd say that's a safety / personal boundary situation.

I agree. I guess sometimes I wonder if's just a personal boundary or if I'm conflict avoident in certain situation. I watched some of Dr. K's content from HealthyGamerGG where he talks to incels for example and it's interesting to watch him navigate that without resorting to disengaging with the person, getting triggered, or triggering the other person. I like to use his interactions and his aproach to various issues as more of a lay person example of what yellow can look like.

Granted he is a trained psychologist so his approach to engaging with people is a testament of that and I shouldn't compare myself and my reactions to similar situations to him, but it's still insightful. 

Edited Saturday at 03:16 AM by soos_mite_ah

[aurum]

2 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

How would you differentiate these two? 

Tolerance: your beliefs are wrong, but I still accept you. Here's a hug 

Integration: I understand where your beliefs are right and wrong 

[RendHeaven]

10 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I can see that. Funny enough, that's the same exercise I use whenever I'm dealing with someone difficult, KKK member or not. I'm not some how special because of the conclusions I have come to and the life path I have taken because if I was in a different situation with a different background and personality, I could've easily ended up like that. Hell, I'm sure I'll understand that in another life since I am the universe experiencing itself lol. 

@soos_mite_ah At this point it's not just that you've stopped demonizing them, but even further, you actually gain a wistful sympathy where you almost feel like you're on their side. You literally become incapable of faulting a racist. Of course they're racist! They're literally an instantiation of you trapped in a racist-ego timeline where their ideological calcification was inevitable. Every time you see a racist, you're basically watching yourself flailing and squealing in a mouse trap. I find myself crying for the victimizer just as much as, if not more than, the victimized.

You, as you are now, basically dodged racism by being lucky (born in 21st century progressive America as a woman with empathy and decent role models). It gets really dark when you extend this realization to more serious criminals like murders and rapists. It was a shocking day when I realized that I'm basically a domesticated murderer-rapist who lucked out by being plopped into a harmonious and nurturing social system.

This is not to say that you're actually going to go and become a racist KKK member (lol) or a felon as you're extending your understanding to these people. Of course, you get to keep your moral compass and conscious preferences.

The difference is that you'll have finally fully reconciled the logical necessity of racism (and other human rights violations) existing, and therefore you erase the burning contradiction in your vision. You go from "how can people be so wrong? I can't believe them!" to "ah, right. of course." with a gentle sigh (before promptly ignoring these people because, as we discussed earlier, it's not like you can save them through Socratic method lol)

[soos_mite_ah]

4 minutes ago, aurum said:

Integration: I understand where your beliefs are right and wrong 

I guess if we're going with the KKK member example, granted I'm not an expert on KKK members, but I can understand what factors in their life might have lead them to think that way (socioeconomic issues, indoctrination, the types of people they're around, all the ways that their environment normalizes and encourages racism, some other kind of trauma etc.) and how as a result, the views themselves reflects some kind of truth (i.e. sociological insight, how a lot of white Americans since they aren't in touch with their heritage, the resort to embracing the system the upholds the hiearchy as some identity of whiteness etc.) I believe that observing extreme ideologies like this can be insightful in the way that they expose finer nuances in society and human behavior by taking those nuances and blowing them up by 1000x so that you can take a closer look.

Nevertheless, of course white supremacy is wrong and harms a lot of people and it goes without saying that I can understand where that ideology goes wrong. 

[RendHeaven]

1 minute ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I guess if we're going with the KKK member example, granted I'm not an expert on KKK members, but I can understand what factors in their life might have lead them to think that way (socioeconomic issues, indoctrination, the types of people they're around, all the ways that their environment normalizes and encourages racism, some other kind of trauma etc.) and how as a result, the views themselves reflects some kind of truth (i.e. sociological insight, how a lot of white Americans since they aren't in touch with their heritage, the resort to embracing the system the upholds the hiearchy as some identity of whiteness etc.) I believe that observing extreme ideologies like this can be insightful in the way that they expose finer nuances in society and human behavior by taking those nuances and blowing them up by 1000x so that you can take a closer look.

Nevertheless, of course white supremacy is wrong and harms a lot of people and it goes without saying that I can understand where that ideology goes wrong. 

This is strong. You're pretty dang yellow IMO lol.

I would add that ethnocentrism, or "othering" people that look different from you, has been a cornerstone of human civilization for pretty much our entire recorded history. Ofc, not just by race, but by almost any imaginable distinction.

There is a genuine seed of survival virtue in the notion that caution and wariness towards outsiders is good for the longevity of the in-group. If you care about the in-group (more than global harmony or truth, lol) then it's actually true that the out-group is a constant threat.

The problem is that this mentality breaks down in the post-WW2 cosmopolitan global trade era + high speed internet era. There's also extreme cultural sensitivity around white people being prejudiced against dark skinned folks, because of America's history with slavery and jim crow and such.

So what could've been appropriate (wariness and "othering" of different people) for centuries is now outdated, uneducated, counterproductive, and extremely culturally insensitive.

[aurum]

15 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I guess if we're going with the KKK member example, granted I'm not an expert on KKK members, but I can understand what factors in their life might have lead them to think that way (socioeconomic issues, indoctrination, the types of people they're around, all the ways that their environment normalizes and encourages racism, some other kind of trauma etc.) and how as a result, the views themselves reflects some kind of truth (i.e. sociological insight, how a lot of white Americans since they aren't in touch with their heritage, the resort to embracing the system the upholds the hiearchy as some identity of whiteness etc.) I believe that observing extreme ideologies like this can be insightful in the way that they expose finer nuances in society and human behavior by taking those nuances and blowing them up by 1000x so that you can take a closer look.

Nevertheless, of course white supremacy is wrong and harms a lot of people and it goes without saying that I can understand where that ideology goes wrong. 

Do you understand why ethnocentrism / nationalism is important?

That's the real test of your integration.

[soos_mite_ah]

3 minutes ago, aurum said:

Do you understand why ethnocentrism / nationalism is important?

This is definitely the spark notes version since it's been about 6 years since I remember discussing this in college but ethnocentrism is a natural by product of a group defining their collective identity by separating an in group and our group. Having a collective identity can aid in organizing people and societies by giving people a sense of belonging and a sense that they're contributing to a greater whole. Eventually, this can turn into nationalism which is crucial for state building and the creation of different countries. Countries are created through nationalism because it groups people together in a more cohesive unit where they pay taxes for their society and militaristically defend the in group from the out group. 

Of course, this can become an excess once a society has reached a place where the state is clearly defined and is actually a cohesive country. I can see the necessity of nationalism and ethnocentrism in Iraq for example as it is a failed state of sorts, and you kind of need a strong man to round everyone together into a cohesive unit. However, in a country like the U.S. ethnocentrism and nationalism can easily become unhealthy and excessive since we are well past the state that Iraq is in. 

[aurum]

3 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

This is definitely the spark notes version since it's been about 6 years since I remember discussing this in college but ethnocentrism is a natural by product of a group defining their collective identity by separating an in group and our group. Having a collective identity can aid in organizing people and societies by giving people a sense of belonging and a sense that they're contributing to a greater whole. Eventually, this can turn into nationalism which is crucial for state building and the creation of different countries. Countries are created through nationalism because it groups people together in a more cohesive unit where they pay taxes for their society and militaristically defend the in group from the out group. 

Of course, this can become an excess once a society has reached a place where the state is clearly defined and is actually a cohesive country. I can see the necessity of nationalism and ethnocentrism in Iraq for example as it is a failed state of sorts, and you kind of need a strong man to round everyone together into a cohesive unit. However, in a country like the U.S. ethnocentrism and nationalism can easily become unhealthy and excessive since we are well past the state that Iraq is in. 

That's a good answer.

You're doing some serious sense-making.

[Consept]

I think it's a cool topic to highlight and your view on it seems very nuanced. Speaking personally what triggers me is people think how they think, just because. So dogmatic thinking essentially, but when they believe it so strongly and you know they don't understand what they're talking about and are self-deluded, which is the majority of people, this can be very triggering. 

I especially got triggered during the pandemic, when it seemed like everyone believed all the misinformation being pumped out and couldn't really parse out or critically think about why I doesn't make sense. That was like a lid being lifted on how the mass population make sense of the world and I found it quite scary. Since that I've tried to accept and let things be and hopefully just be a positive example in the world because changing people's opinions or trying to get them to think different is basically an impossible task.