Leo, how much do looks influence a man's attractiveness

[Alexop]

31 minutes ago, k-ahmadzadeh said:

I would like to remind you that dating is extremely difficult (near to impossible) for a low-tier-average-looking man like me, who comes from a lower-middle-class family. 

When it comes to looks, by assessing my appearance, I come to the conclusion that it is near to impossible for me to go slightly above average in looks, even though I would do everything to improve it. I couldn't get any luck with online dating or cold approaches. You good-looking guys don't have tiny idea about being completely invisible to, even, average-looking girls. 

Additionally, coming from a lower-income family made every aspect of my life difficult, and finally, I got depression that doesn't go away. There are lots of factors, like not having good looks, coming from a poor social and economical background, dealing with lots of psychological problems, and lack of luck. There are so many problems in many aspects of my life that I don't know which one to solve. And it will take years to fix each of these things, and when I'm done with them, I'll see that I'm over 30 years old, and the physical appearance I have will only get worse. 

I see here how commentators underestimate the complexity and difficult nature of life when they give advice like 'just be in high vibration!'. How can the one who has bad cards in life be a social butterfly?! 

Leo is such a wise man! He is in full awareness of the nature of life itself! 

See!?? How easy it is to completely distort a man's image on attraction with some silly ideas? Just because Leo or some other influencer tells you looks matter, don't believe it! Test it and experience it personally, my god.

[Consept]

@k-ahmadzadeh

This is where black pill or believing looks are everything messes you up. Judging by your profile picture, if that is you, you are decent looking, you're by no means ugly, like I would never look at you and think 'wow what an ugly looking dude'.

I think when you base everything on looks it gives an excuse not to work on other stuff that will actually get you results. A big one that people don't mention is sorting yourself out mentally, going to therapy etc. As well as the physical, getting into shape. By believing the looks thing it confines you to this doomed mindset where you can't get out, but it's nonsense. 

Now I'm not saying looks aren't a factor but the people that complain about it are over emphasising it and when you look into it, they are doing nothing to be more attractive. 

Heres an analogy, there are football (soccer) players who are very talented naturally, from when they were 6 years old they everyone believed they would make it, then there are players who weren't as talented but worked ridiculously hard to make it. If the talented players don't work hard a lot of the times they get no where. Because everything is handed to them they don't develop the habits of a hard worker and its very common for the hard worker to do better than the talented player. 

Of course you need a little bit of talent (looks) to work with but in many fields, success comes down to how much you work at it. 

[Anon212]

4 hours ago, AlterEgo said:

Lol Leo gives such bad advice and blames everything on 'genetics'.  It's a victim's mentality.  You guys don't have to move to a city of 1m+ people just to find love.  You don't need to talk to 1000 ladies just to get laid once.  He extrapolates his experiences and applies it to everyone.

 

Being more authentic is much more important than learning 'game' and how to react to every women's 'show'.

@AlterEgo I logged in just to say that I have never agreed with something so much in my life.

You need to speak to 1000s of women, move to big cities, blah blah, it is not true, not at this level. 1000s of women is absurd haha. You must have serious developmental issues if you need to speak to 1000s of women to get laid.

The guys around me that get laid frequently NEVER studied game, they are decent looking guys but more importantly they are authentic. I guess they grew up in healthy families, little to no shame and guilt, no limiting beliefs around sex and women and certainly no issues with rejection.

The problem with most guys is that they are deeply wounded, full of shame, guilt, limiting beliefs, sexual dysfunction. This is healed through therapy, spiritual work, etc... the techniques that you learn from learning game can be learned in a three months, not five fucking years or talking to 10 trillion women.

The hard work is fixing how society, your parents, schools, religions all fucked you up. If you do that, the rest of it is easy. Yes it is easy, talking to women gets easy once you are totally secure within yourself. YES, EASY!

DAVID TIAN is the best for this, he explains this amazingly.

If you are deeply hurt, full of shame and so on, you can still go and learn game but good luck with the kind of women you attract (because you are just  a broken little boy so good luck with all the broken little girls), and if you really think getting a nice feeling in your dick is going to solve these serious issues, well again good luck with that.

Focus on healing your wounds, ridding yourself of toxic shame, toxic guilt, fear of rejection etc..., this cannot be done to perfection but if you do it seriously the whole women business will become a lot easier.

You can see how pervasive this shit is in the red pill community, those guys are completely twisted. There are healthier ways to live life.

BTW this looks, status, fame stuff is still important for sure, but don't make a big deal out of it, too much times is wasted thinking about this, just get to work I guess

[r0ckyreed]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Owen is bullshitting you about that in the Blueprint. Because he is selling guys on the idea of game. You have to be aware of his biases and agenda. His agenda is NOT truth.

But Owen’s looks aren’t that great and he gets many girls? Isn’t it all subjective?

Edited February 26 by r0ckyreed

[Alexop]

6 minutes ago, Anon212 said:

@AlterEgo I logged in just to say that I have never agreed with something so much in my life.

You need to speak to 1000s of women, move to big cities, blah blah, it is not true, not at this level. 1000s of women is absurd haha. You must have serious developmental issues if you need to speak to 1000s of women to get laid.

The guys around me that get laid frequently NEVER studied game, they are decent looking guys but more importantly they are authentic. I guess they grew up in healthy families, little to no shame and guilt, no limiting beliefs around sex and women and certainly no issues with rejection.

The problem with most guys is that they are deeply wounded, full of shame, guilt, limiting beliefs, sexual dysfunction. This is healed through therapy, spiritual work, etc... the techniques that you learn from learning game can be learned in a three months, not five fucking years or talking to 10 trillion women.

The hard work is fixing how society, your parents, schools, religions all fucked you up. If you do that, the rest of it is easy. Yes it is easy, talking to women gets easy once you are totally secure within yourself. YES, EASY!

DAVID TIAN is the best for this, he explains this amazingly.

If you are deeply hurt, full of shame and so on, you can still go and learn game but good luck with the kind of women you attract (because you are just  a broken little boy so good luck with all the broken little girls), and if you really think getting a nice feeling in your dick is going to solve these serious issues, well again good luck with that.

Focus on healing your wounds, ridding yourself of toxic shame, toxic guilt, fear of rejection etc..., this cannot be done to perfection but if you do it seriously the whole women business will become a lot easier.

You can see how pervasive this shit is in the red pill community, those guys are completely twisted. There are healthier ways to live life.

BTW this looks, status, fame stuff is still important for sure, but don't make a big deal out of it, too much times is wasted thinking about this, just get to work I guess

Something to add: If the girl is wounded, she will fall for a wounded man. And as @puporing said, good looks matter less as the woman matures.

[TheEnigma]

Looks are very important, even more so in men than in women. At least I can speak for North American women since i lived most of my life here (trust me we talk ), I don't know about the rest of the world. Success with women is not so much about what you do, but who you are. It's human nature. When a woman sees a man she likes, she will break rules for him. But then she would be more likely to mean to a short ugly fat balding man that is working a low level job that has nothing to offer her. She may even use him for friendship and dump him without caring. Just as when a man finds a beautiful feminine submissive woman, he is much more likely to do her favors than if he saw an ugly masculine woman. It goes both ways. When we see value in someone, we tend to treat them nicer and you'd be surprised at how much we let them get away with.

I had to train my mind like crazy to do the counter intuitive thing, and practice being mindful about this for years! As Leo once taught (and so does Christianity), love the things that are difficult to love. It's so easy to love things that benefit you because they're serving your interests. 

Edited February 26 by TheEnigma

[Yimpa]

28 minutes ago, Alexop said:

Something to add: If the girl is wounded, she will fall for a wounded man. And as @puporing said, good looks matter less as the woman matures.

I’ve dated plenty of people in a wounded state. They’d all inevitably end up in heartbreak. What’s gotten me off that abusive cycle is acceptance. Now I am in a beautiful relationship that’s built upon the foundation of acceptance 

[Yimpa]

1 minute ago, TheEnigma said:

When we see value in someone, we tend to treat them nicer. I had to train my mind like crazy to do the counter intuitive thing, and practice being mindful about this for years!

Another counterintuitive move is to seriously contemplate what your values are.

It’s a tough pill to swallow — honestly coming to realize how selfish your values actually are. The good news is that, coming to terms with this, you’ll no longer be lead down the garden path. Now you’ll be lead up the path towards healing and developing more holistic values.

[TheEnigma]

10 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Another counterintuitive move is to seriously contemplate what your values are.

It’s a tough pill to swallow — honestly coming to realize how selfish your values actually are. The good news is that, coming to terms with this, you’ll no longer be lead down the garden path. Now you’ll be lead up the path towards healing and developing more holistic values.

"Another counterintuitive move is to seriously contemplate what your values are."

Ooo. Yes thank you. That's why I'm a seeker of truth  Also I hope I'm able to help this guy who posted how important looks are.

Edited February 26 by TheEnigma

[Yimpa]

1 minute ago, TheEnigma said:

Ooo. Yes that's why I'm a seeker of truth  Also I hope I'm able to help this guy who posted how important looks are.

Heh, that’s why I went to a dermatologist recently. Healing my eczema is a beautiful process!

[Consept]

1 hour ago, Anon212 said:

The hard work is fixing how society, your parents, schools, religions all fucked you up. If you do that, the rest of it is easy. Yes it is easy, talking to women gets easy once you are totally secure within yourself. YES, EASY!

DAVID TIAN is the best for this, he explains this amazingly.

I agree with this a lot and I love David Tians work on this. A lot of people are fucked up, usually by parents, society etc they dont feel they are enough and so are trying their best to fulfil their idea of success. So, having a partner or being attractive seems, logically like something that would make you feel better about yourself and will solve all your problems. But the the reality is if you have these issues, you just take them into a relationship or pass them down to your kids or whatever, they dont go anywhere. 

I was definitely better looking when i was younger, I got a lot of interest from women, but I had no sense of self, I was anxious, i didnt feel good or secure within myself. Now i actually feel like im more attractive, maybe not looks wise but just overall. Before I had potential but now its the real deal. 

[Karmadhi]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You proved my point.

I dont think most guys would say that looks do not matter. It is quite obvious they do matter and they do help. You have also admitted this in the past, so I do not see you changing your opinion much on this matter.

Now, how MUCH they matter is up for debate. But saying they are irrelevant and only game matters is just silly.

However I do strongly believe that taking care of yourself helps a lot with it. Also I noticed that for most girls, looks can be quite subjective. I am always baffled by how subjective they are. 

Also game is more important than looks from what I have observed. The biggest thing with game is that you need to be quite active about it and most guys are lazy and they want girls to do all the work for them.

Edited February 26 by Karmadhi

[k-ahmadzadeh]

Do you really think that building high social status (which is compensatory for not being lucky enough in terms of looks) is doable for most of us? If you think so, I would argue that you are wrong. Think a bit about today's highly competitive capitalism and the decreasing value of human labour. AIs increasingly continue to replace human labour and creative activities previously done by people. In today's world, being an engineer, a programmer, a graphic designer, an artist, an academician, or a doctor increasingly doesn't help you to have high social status. Everything is increasingly becoming "ordinary," and nothing is surprising. Only youth and external beauty retain their value in modern hedonistic society because this feature cannot be reproduced by technology and is rare. Therefore, it is not at all surprising today that a young girl sells her bath water and underwear to lonely men.  

So tell me how can I keep my optimism in the face of these structural hardships happening in the world  @Alexop @Consept 

Brother I don't say I am ugly; real ugly people are rare. Most of us have decent looks - which is different from being attractive enough. The criteria that women set for a relationship blows my mind and gives me the sense that I should be just a superman in order to get a tiny attention from them. 

[Karmadhi]

5 hours ago, Alexop said:

How would you guys describe "good" genetics?

Logically it would be anything related to physical capability. So being tall, wide shoulders etc. Also things related to high testosterone.

I think strong jawline is linked with it which is why girls like it. Also it shows you have low body fat which also is related with physical capability. Hard to run and stuff if you are fat. 

 

 

[Yimpa]

1 minute ago, k-ahmadzadeh said:

So tell me how can I keep my optimism in the face of these structural hardships happening in the world

Your sense of worth must penetrate deeper than physical / material wealth.

[Yimpa]

3 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Also it shows you have low body fat which also is related with physical capability. Hard to run and stuff if you are fat. 

 

Not necessarily

 

[Consept]

5 minutes ago, k-ahmadzadeh said:

So tell me how can I keep my optimism in the face of these structural hardships happening in the world

The fuck are you talking about? All of that is completely out of your control and furthermore do you not think the world was much harder for previous generations? Im not saying we dont have our issues but if you look at the average persons resources today they could rival a kings from a few hundred years ago. Also you most likely wont have to go to war and die so thats a big plus. 

Point being there are always going to be external hardships, no world youre born into is going to be perfect for you and you shouldnt even want that as it wouldnt give you opportunity to grow. 

Trust me, just from your negative attitude, if you didnt have that i guarantee you more women will find you attractive. Im not saying fake being positive, im saying sort out your internal issues and feel like you actually have real value to give to the world and people around you. 

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

But Owen’s looks aren’t that great and he gets many girls? Isn’t it all subjective?

Owen is a worldclass bullshitter. Owen does not get many girls. He struggles to get them. Because of his looks.

You have to understand that pickup coaches are very biased and untruthful people. They either straight out lie to their students or they themselves are deluded by years of pickup brainwashing.

Also, if you notice, most of the successful pickup coaches are good looking extroverts. It's not merely their game that's doing the work. Similar to how successful bodybuilders are also coasting off great genetics and fooling you into thinking that it's all their hard work at the gym. No matter how much a regular guy hits the gym he will never be Arnold Schwarzeneggar. Because Arnold had peak genetics that enabled everything else. But fools think that it was all just hard work. You can't hard work you way into peak genetics. Which is why actors, musicians, athletes, and models get paid so much money. It's not just because they work hard. It's because they have peak genetics which 99% can't have. This makes them incredibly valuable comodities.

Spiritually successful people also coast off their peak genetics, in case you haven't noticed. And so do the best intellectuals. All these things are grounded in having the right genetics. And then these people fool you into thinking otherwise. Many times they themselves are unaware of their innate advatages because they are too close to them.

You can deny this all you want but in the end it's the truth.

Be ware, if you turn this truth into a victim mentality, that's on you. I am not saying to do that. My only concern here is how reality actually works, not how you feel about it and how you need it to be for your sake.

Edited February 26 by Leo Gura

[Consept]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Owen does not get many girls. He struggles to get them. Because of his looks.

You have to understand that pickup coaches are very biased and untruthful people. They either straight out lie to their students or they themselves are deluded by years of pickup brainwashing.

Also, if you notice, most of the successful pickup coaches are good looking extroverts. It's not merely their game that's doing the work. Similar to how successful bodybuilds are also coasting off great genetics and fooling you into thinking that it's all their hard work at the gym. No matter how much a regular guy hits the gym he will never be Arnold Schwarzeneggar. Because Arnold had peak genetics that enabled everything else. But fools think that it was all just hard work. You can't hard work you way into peak genetics. Which is why actors, musicians, athletes, and models get paid so much money. It's not just because they work hard. It's because they have peak genetics which 99% can't have. This makes them incredibly valuable.

I dont know man, genetics obviously play their part but I think most guys are not maximising their potential, by definition most guys looks are average but also most guys dont actively put in work in terms of fitness, social and internal so logically you would be ahead of most guys if you put in some work. Even just being good looking, chances are girls are not gonna approach you so you still need to do work and you definitely need work to sustain a relationship. 

To be the best you need genetics + hard work, but you can still do really well with average genetics + hard work, most likely youll do better than genetics - hard work. 

Personal anecdote, for research purposes I got rated by a well known black pill youtuber, he put me at a 4, which although was a slight hit to my ego, doesnt really match with my reality and the girls that I attract both irl and on dating apps. Not saying its a non-stop line of women but its certainly better than they would lead a 'below average' man to believe he could attract. 

[Karmadhi]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Owen is a worldclass bullshitter. Owen does not get many girls. He struggles to get them. Because of his looks.

I dont think he looks as bad as people make him. Especially on his early days. He looks super normal to me. Neither good nor bad.

You have PUAs like Tom Torrero for example which look worse. 

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can deny this all you want but in the end it's the truth.

I dont think people deny good genetics matter. However, also most peope do not want to be this sex god that can fuck 10/10 in large quantities. Most people want a decent looking kind loyal girl. And you can get someone like that with average or even bit below average looks. If you are obese and smell like shit, well that is on you. I doubt most males in this forum are looking to have 250 laycount full of models or a harem with 8 girls.

Issue we have with men these days is that they struggle to get girls in general, not struggle to get models in huge quantities.

"I cannot get a decent girl because I do not look like a Chad"  or "I cannot get a girl more physically attractive than myself" is a far more common belief these days which game can help to fix. 

Edited February 26 by Leo Gura