Alexop

Yes that is a risk. But many echochambered people don't even want to hear about finding good things in their "enemies".

Got you

We have to define who "they" are. There are some immature and some mature feminists. In the same way you have mature conservatives who come with good points, and you have neo-nazis who are retarded all the way.

We should steelman as much as possible before we criticise. You don't like something? Force yourself to find at least 3 arguments for why that thing can actually be likable.

I will present some popular claims of the manospshere/redpill/incels and I will try to counter it in the most unbiased way possible Claim: Women are very shallow and incapable of deep thought Me: It is true that women, in general, are less nerdy and less prone to mapping the world with theories and models. But they often read lots of books, they document themselves quite well and even if they did not sit and contemplate those ideas from scratch, they are able to deeply understand them. I meet women who understand politics much better and are less biased than most men I met. They don't contemplate as much as men but I notice how good they are at observing things. They observe stuff that men sometimes don't, and observation can be a great tool for understanding! Where I can agree that they can be somewhat shallow is attraction. Especially now when they have so many options, they might choose the wrong guy for them because they had a feeling he is okay. Yea, some more logic and less feelings when choosing a life partner can help here. Claim: women become less attractive if they are too mature and “nerdy”, because they basically become men. Me: I did not notice that. I met very mature women that were able to sustain deep philosophical talks, but I did not feel less attracted to them, in fact I became more attracted. Even if they were in that way, they kept their cute, soft, flexible feminine vibe. And they did not try to invert the polarity, I felt like a man and they felt like women the whole time. If they trust your lead, they will stay feminine and fluid like water. Maturity is not equal to masculinity. You can be very mature in many ways. Claim: women just won't accept that they are wrong. Me: well… that can hold some water. In general, women trust their feelings more that men. Especially if they are less mature. If you hurt their feelings with hard critique, they can become avoidant and defensive. But we have to be careful that we compare apples to apples not peaches to apples. If you compare an Instagram girl with some philospher, well yea. There are more and more very mature women who challenge these stereotypes. Who can accept good critique. Depends how you deliver it. Be more gentle and they will be open to change their minds. The same shit I can say about men. I met lots of men (and I do it too sometimes) that have a rock hard ego, who will never ever want to accept that they are wrong. Claim: feminism had destroyed society Me: It is true that the last wave of woke feminism has become a charade of immature shit, but per total, feminism has raised women up. Feminism is wrong in regards to biology, men and women are not the same and should not be the same. But the hard stereotyes of the past had to change. Humanity goes to the other extreme in many of such cases before it stabilizes in the middle. Thanks to feminism, we have very educated women who are able of deep thought, self-sufficiency, maturity, equal systemic rights (bank accounts, voting rights, abortion rights etc.) . In fact feminism has done such a good work for women that men are lacking behind. And that is the thing that has to happen right now. We need some sort of men's movement that will raise men up.

ignorance is bliss. And I don´t think they are so happy. The just cope with life by getting together and keeping themsleves busy with nonsense. That is like me saying how well I smell because I put perfume on all my clothes and deodorant under ampits instead of having a shower.

I am not a swede, but I notice they eat all sorts of crap. Pasta, pizza, fish, pastry, tacos etc. Not very healthy in general. Food industry in Sweden is gate keeped by 3 large corporations. They own the whole poduction chain and if you want to sell your food in the swedish market, you have to accept their terms.

10% unemployment may tells you something. Oligarchy in food industry also. Sweden is so left that we have Trumpists in power now.

yea that is fked up mate... I hope you will change that some day

We can make a minority government or ally with one block or the other. But no chance to make the wokies collaborate with the bourgeoisie. Especially after they worked close with the far right. It is not 1960s anymore. We have a very divided society. You can clearly see how people gather around their distinct values. Spiral Dynamics Blue, Orange and Green.

greens focus more on the environmental issues and immigration, V are describing themsleves as "the anti-racist, feminist party". It is mostly the focus that makes them different. V can come with good stuff sometimes, like taxing the rich more, building state housing etc. But they attract all sorts of weirdos and extremists in their party. They can exaggerate with their identity politics of course. All the children who finish gender studies, diversity studies or some shit like that, go into their Young Left, which is their young under 30 division. Their young division is openly marxist and very confrontational. they even shouted police hate speech at a pride event. They are the type of people who can become more and more extreme if they gain too much power, that is my biggest concern about them. Because that is their niche. Attracting passionate, vehement voters who want change now, in 2 minutes.

we basically have two options: collaborate with the woke left parties or collaborate with the Orange Moderates. The second option might make for too little progress, especially in regards to the economy. The first option might enrage the conservative voters and our popularity might suffer. The thing is that people vote on vibe. if we present a loosy-goosy hippie vibe, then the serious people will feel reluctant on voting for us again. If we compromise too much with the neo-liberals, we might not fix the economy, which is shit right now. We have enough of the Orange shit, we have the highest number of billionaires per capita in Europe. Housing is a nightmare. Private schools taking unlimited profits from the public budget. The welfare system is going down etc.

https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/sweden/ S is us, the normal left. V is the woke left. MP are the greens. M are the Orange neo-liberals that are in power rn forming a coalition with SD. SD is the far right anti-immigration party. They exploded in popularity after the refugee crisis when Sweden took waay to many of them, creating segregation and gang violence all-over. Just think about it. In the hippie Sweden, a far-right Trumpist party reaching 20%. And in this political nightmarish situation, these green fucks are sayign that shit...

One month until parliamentary elections in Sweden. I am a member of the social-democrats (center-left) and we are the most popular party by far in the polls. A few days ago the fucking Greens had the amazing idea to come with the coming statement: "we can take many more refugees". I am pretty sure this is going to cost us a few points, because we are planning to collaborate, of course, with the 2 smaller left parties (the greens and the left party). After all of what happened in Sweden, with all the immigration chaos and people panic voting massively for the far right, just because this topic alone. Now comes these fuckers with this stupid statement. I cannot stand this virtue signaling anymore. These idiots do not meet the refugees, they live in in gentrificated areas and only meet white leftist people but complain about us not taking care of the refugees. Bitch, why aren't you living in the same neighborhood with them? why aren't you befriending that poor guy who came from Syria here? Oh, you have different values… These unnuanced statements are clearly leftist populous bullshit. A nuanced statement about immigration would be something like: “we will see what comes in the future. if 2 million refugees come to europe, we won't be able to take too many of them, because we already have big political and logistical problems based on not properly integrating the people who we already took in. We will have a generous work based immigration, to keep the economy going. We need that because the Swedes are not having enough children. But refugees are a complicated issue that we have to approach with caution right now.” But of course they don´t say it like this, their voters base are the Greta Thunberg “I block the roads if you don´t do what I want” type of people. Who do not want to accept reality. The far left small parties are surviving based on being radical and challenging the norms much more the the status quo. because the nuanced position is taken by the social-democrats. And they are not those sold-out , watered down soc-dems, they are pure leftist blood.

Definitively. And interpreting any bad behaviour as a problem of your past.