Soonhei (Member of this community) killed himself to experience Conscious Death. :-(

[VeganAwake]

17 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

I would be glad to do that.

I already help people a lot here especially with their emotional issues given my own experience with it.

 

That's very generous of you ❤

[Preety_India]

@Leo Gura  will the journal section be kept in the future on this website because the journaling helps a lot.

Or are you planning to axe it as well along with forum comments?

 

 

[IAmReallyImportant]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Well, to understand this you would have to become conscious of what "other" is.

You might be shocked to discover that "other" is your own imagination.

The problem here is that the truth may not be comfortable or useful to your survival, especially if the only thing keeping you alive is your belief in others.

You have to be careful with your illusions. If you believe that Christ is the most real thing, and then you discover that Christ is just a fiction of your mind, and all you want to live for is Christ, then you very well might get the idea to kill yourself. This would be silly, but people do silly things all the time.

If you want to be safe, just commit to not harming your body. Don't take anything as a prescription for bodily harm. It's really not so complicated. I have stated this rule before: don't harm the body.

What happens if someone commits suicide? Why is this a bad thing? 

From my perspective, life offers too much beautiful things not yet discovered. But from an enlightened perspective? 

[kai0]

@Leo Gura I'm not sure where's the misunderstanding is. It is clear and evident that certain communications were the trigger behind this suicide. You're trying to avoid the responsibility by throwing everything at the recipient but it doesn't work that way. You maybe advanced and capable of being cautious and rational but most people aren't that way. You're carving a dangerous territory but then refusing to lead others carefully. It's time you should face reality and stop hiding behind the camera. Your words have consequences like it or not, and that's not exclusive to you. Death is a serious topic and spirituality deals with it so preventing unwanted deaths is part of it. You have built something beautiful please don't destroy it with your carelessness. The problem occurs way before the forum or the private chats you have with suicidal people. I don't expect you to become a full-time therapist suicide hotline. That would be putting the cart before the horse. Rather look at the root of the problem in your videos.

Statements like:

there are no others - you are imagining everything - everything is a dream literally and not figuratively - death doesn't exist or occur - and other statements

Therein lies the real problem. These words aren't neutral or innocent as you might think. They trigger certain chains of thoughts that more often than not lead to negative impacts from depression and nihilism all the way to suicide and genocide. The disclaimers do very little when you emphasize too much on the literal aspect of truthfulness regarding those statements. It is your responsibility to speak things correctly, and if you can't then probably you shouldn't or else just take responsibility for what happens next. What you say in the videos is your responsibility just as much as what you say here or anywhere else. There are many ways to frame the same thing but you choose one way and this way is clearly problematic evidenced by the many confusions that people post here asking about. These confused people are confused for a reason. You go to extreme lengths trying to make things clear and I respect you for that but I just think that you need to rethink your vocabulary and improve it especially regarding sensitive topics. I believe that's not too much to ask. Preventing the problems before it comes to life is wise and you talk about wisdom so lead by example. Hopefully you will at least consider what I said here.

Edited May 20, 2021 by kai0

[Etherial Cat]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because there is no way to filter out those people and because at least those people might get some help from fellow forum member.

Again, your guys' exceptions for this forum are way off.

This forum is purely pro-bono work. I offer no guarantees to any member or user of this forum that I will reply or help in any way. I could leave and not post on this forum for 2 months. This is not a clinic, this not therapy, this is not even life coaching. There is zero client relationship here. It's simply a big chat room. No guarantees of help are given. And in fact, no serious help is possible in this format.

Vulnerable people will inevitably come. Suicidal people will inevitably come. Drug addicts will come. Mentally ill people will come. Poor people will come. Criminal people will come. And it is not my job to help any of them any more than it is your job to save every mentally ill poor person you see the sidewalk. There are thousands of people in the world you need serious help. Unfortunately there is not enough time or energy to help them all.

I help those who I can when I feel capable and have some free time. Otherwise it is not my business. I am not here to save the world. And I am not in the business of building out a mental health organization. It is a full-time job just to keep Actualized.org running, even not counting what nonsense goes on on the forum.

Please understand this. No Youtuber or CEO or guru is running around personally saving people. Sadhguru or Eckhart Tolle is not gonna answer your email and talk to you. The amount of time and energy which I have devoted to answering your guys' questions and problems via forum and comments is so outrageously high that you can not even being to calculate it. Nobody in the self-help or spiritual industry or on YT has answered as many questions, in such depth, for free, as I have. Find me one person to has done more.

I spent an hour on the phone last week talking down Connor the madman. Just to get trolled.

You are seriously taking for granted how hard I work for you for free. And if this kind of attitude continues, I will stop commenting and answering questions full stop. It will all be shut down. I have zero desire to play these social games. And I will have zero guilt about it, because I owe you nothing. I could be enjoying a drink on the beach right now, counting my money and enjoying some DMT.

Fair enough, I get that. 

Though, the forum is also a great source of inspiration for your work. Kinda gives a great sight on society's biggest issues which is great philosophy material.  

Edited May 20, 2021 by Etherial Cat

[Godhead]

7 hours ago, Preety_India said:

@Leo Gura I have deep respect for who you are as a person.

So please don't think of me as attacking you. Not my goal 

I only wanted to offer a fair critique of your dismissive attitude towards mental and emotional health in the light of what you represent at Actualized Org 

Also this whole big organization that you built called Actualized Org is not solely your property after you made people a part of it..

Actualized Org is not meant only for Leo Gura and his aspirations. It is also meant for people who became a part of this journey with you.

Are you going to simply cut them off ?

We shared this journey with you. We became a part of you along with you doing this work.

Yes we are physically and mentally separate from you 

But what you are doing at Actualized Org is not simply your own work but also group work. We are also a part of who we made you. Your videos are about helping us. So this is a two way street.

You cannot be trying to help us and also separate us at the same time.

So hopefully you'll pay us due consideration to our input in all your future decisions.

Are you going to blame a cook for not wanting to be a plumber? 

Leo is doing what he's interested in and good at. If I'm looking for fitness advice, I don't ask Leo to make his whole channel revolve around Fitness, I simply look for other teachers.

I mean he even has a whole subforum where people can talk about mental health issues and he has several videos about emotions and mental health, it's not like he's completely ignorant towards those issues. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Godhead

[Consept]

When someone passes i always feel sorry for their family more than them as they are the ones left to suffer and seeing it first hand it, can be devastating and leave a lasting impact. Its a shame Soonhei went that way, i didnt know him too well but he seemed to provide a lot of value to those around him and im not sure he fully understood what was being lost. It was weird because im currently reading a book called 'Death' by Sashuguru, after i saw this thread i opened it up and i was on the page titled 'Suicide, ill leave a couple of pics at the end of the 2 pages in which he mentions when someone on the spiritual path commits suicide. 

Regarding the forum taking more responsibility for this, i dont really see it as Leo or the forums fault, for one it didnt seem as if he had mental health problems, therefore you can only really say he needed spiritual guidance but again the forum and Leo cant be expected to do that. There are tons of forums, social media etc etc that actively encourage suicide, it wouldnt be fair to say this forum encourages it. Also he wasnt new to the spiritual path, he did what he did somewhat consciously, if anything it seemed as if he was looking for confirmation for his eventual actions which he didnt get here. Surely this forum has saved many lives, ive seen numerous threads where people have talked about being depressed and suicidal and they have received so much support, if we change the make up of the site you are essentially risking these peoples lives, its the whole thing of people only notice when something goes wrong. 

 

 

 

[Jonty]

@Leo Gura It's only a small portion that don't seem to recognise the amount of effort that you go to. 

On a personal level, this website has changed my life and I'm sure it has done the same for thousands of others. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Jonty

[Leo Gura]

37 minutes ago, kai0 said:

there are no others - you are imagining everything - everything is a dream literally and not figuratively - death doesn't exist or occur - and other statements

All of these are standard nondual truths.

If you cannot handle them, then stop doing spirituality and nonduality. I am not going to babysit you.

The entire point of all spiritual work is to realize that death is imaginary!

"The secret to life is to die before you die -- and find that there is no death." -- Eckhart Tolle

"Nothing that was real ever died, only names, forms, and illusions. The end of illusion – that's all death is." -- Eckhart Tolle

"When you have died this death, you realize that there is no death, and that there is nothing to fear. Only the ego dies." -- Eckhart Tolle

"There is no doubt whatsoever that the universe is the merest illusion." -- Ramana Maharshi

"Death is nothing else but going home to God, the bond of love will be unbroken for all eternity." -- Mother Teresa

"Death is not extinguishing the light; it is only putting out the lamp because the dawn has come." -- Rabindranath Tagore

"Death is a taboo in most societies in the world. But what if we’ve got it completely wrong? What if death was not the catastrophe that it is made out to be but an essential aspect of life, rife with spiritual possibilities for transcendence?" -- Sadhguru

"The only reason why people have such a fear of death is they know nothing beyond the body." -- Sadhguru

"Death is a cosmic joke. If you get the joke, falling on the other side will be wonderful." -- Sadhguru

"Death is a fiction of the unaware. There is only life, life, and life alone, moving from one dimension to another." -- Sadhguru

- - - - - -

So please, spare me your crocodile tears about my teachings. My teaching are perfectly consistent with 2000 years of mystical and nondual tradition.

[Surfingthewave]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Because there is no way to filter out those people 

@Leo Gura

So therein lies the problem, which is a wider problem of You Tube. 

My point is that actually no one is really an expert on here or claims to be. I'm not advocating for a mental health organisation at all. Just better signposting for vulnerable people. 

I get that these types of forums are social forums and yes a lot of people get a lot out of them. What you've created has evolved into something else. 

Perhaps think about meeting your members in person like a Satsang or Q and A. 

 

[_Archangel_]

@Preety_India I see already planty of poeple here that are simpathetic and give tips(Leo included), but that's it. You cannot expect Leo to solve everyone's problem, nor should he.
If someone with deep emotional problems come here the best thing that Leo and the Admins can do is suggest therapy with a professionist. That's an act of care, not indifference. This is humility.  Always remember the scope of this forum, because it's a problem to think that that a digital place can be a replacement for 1 to 1 treatment.

[dharm4]

Leo's intellectual approach will inevitably lead to confusion, because people will make his insights into believes and ideologies.

It's like reading a book about computer science and thinking you are a software developer.

Don't believe anything anyone says. Not Eckhart Tolle, Sadguru, Leo.... Find out for yourself.

This should be the only disclaimer to give.

Everyone is responsible for their own actions. Don't be second hand people.

Edited May 20, 2021 by dharm4

[IAmReallyImportant]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

All of these are standard nondual truths.

If you cannot handle them, then stop doing spirituality and nonduality. I am not going to babysit you.

The entire point of all spiritual work is to realize that death is imaginary!

"The secret to life is to die before you die." -- Eckhart Tolle

"There is no doubt whatsoever that the universe is the merest illusion." -- Ramana Maharshi

"Death is nothing else but going home to God, the bond of love will be unbroken for all eternity." -- Mother Teresa

"Death is not extinguishing the light; it is only putting out the lamp because the dawn has come." -- Rabindranath Tagore

"Death is a taboo in most societies in the world. But what if we’ve got it completely wrong? What if death was not the catastrophe that it is made out to be but an essential aspect of life, rife with spiritual possibilities for transcendence?" -- Sadhguru

"The only reason why people have such a fear of death is they know nothing beyond the body." -- Sadhguru

"Death is a cosmic joke. If you get the joke, falling on the other side will be wonderful." -- Sadhguru

"Death is a fiction of the unaware. There is only life, life, and life alone, moving from one dimension to another." -- Sadhguru

You always say death is wonderful, but harming the body not. But you don't explain why, only that one would regret it. 

So why would someone regreting harming a body which would then no longer exist? 

[charlie cho]

@dharm4 yeah definitely. Leo approaches Truth through mind, not heart. It's his way of doing things. Krishnamurti was the same too. 

Don't put the responsibility or the authority to anybody. We are solely responsible. Unless, you have someone physically trying to harm you for not doing what they tell you to, you have no excuses. Nada. None. Done

Edited May 20, 2021 by charlie cho

[The0Self]

1 hour ago, Dodo said:

29 minutes ago, @tuckerwphotography said:

You cannot say "No, there is not". You have no way of knowing, as we cannot access what is beyond here and now. 

• Some assume there is something (matter) because it appears like that.
• Others assume there is nothing, because there is no direct experiential evidence of anything outside of Here-Now-Awareness.

but the correct response to such a question should not be to label the unknown/unknowable mystery as something or nothing, but to be true to what we actually know and label it with question mark or Mu. 

It is a mystery and will remain a mystery. We like to know things, but I had a major breakthrough when I changed this little assumption of knowing what is beyond us (or lack of such a thing) when if we are honest, as conscious awareness, we do not. 

You misunderstood. Yes, this is a mystery. My point was this is ALL there is. Show me something else. There's nothing other than what is. That there is something else is the whole dream...

[dharm4]

6 minutes ago, charlie cho said:

@dharm4 yeah definitely. Leo approaches Truth through mind, not heart. It's his way of doing things. Krishnamurti was the same too. 

Don't put the responsibility or the authority to anybody. We are solely responsible. Unless, you have someone physically trying to harm you for not doing what they tell you to, you have no excuses. Nada. None. Done

@charlie cho Funny you mention Krishnamurti, I think he even coined the term "Second hand people". Being an independent thinker is hard. So many people want some Spiritual Authority to tell them what is True. It's a challenge to stand for yourself and take responsibility.

[Breakingthewall]

I find it incredible to carry the least responsibility in leo for this event. This is an open forum and Leo participates as one more user. apart it has a video section, but it is something separate, it could well be two different pages that would give the same thing. the guy who committed suicide was intelligent, he thought for himself. It is incredible to read people asking for paternalism, pathetic . everyone is free to do what they want. Leo (and others) should only adhere to one standard: total integrity. This forum is an oasis of integrity, never seen in internet. 

[The0Self]

59 minutes ago, kai0 said:

Statements like:

there are no others - you are imagining everything - everything is a dream literally and not figuratively - death doesn't exist or occur - and other statements

Therein lies the real problem. These words aren't neutral or innocent as you might think. They trigger certain chains of thoughts that more often than not lead to negative impacts from depression and nihilism all the way to suicide and genocide. The disclaimers do very little when you emphasize too much on the literal aspect of truthfulness regarding those statements.

This is basically the central point of spirituality... Not exclusive to Leo or actualized.org. There is no alternative... Well, apart from just not having the info disseminated at all... Freedom is dangerous; you have to take the good with the bad.

You really do seem to take for granted just how careful and effective Leo has been thus far.

Edited May 20, 2021 by The0Self

[Dreamcatcher]

So, now I've actually registered to post something here. First of all, my heart goes to the ones who are now faced with the loss of him as a friend, a parent, a lover, and finally as a person.

By what his last words here on the forum where, it seems to me that the desire to experience death in this collective reality was triggered by a conceptual misunderstanding. He tried to make conceptual sense of life and death by constructing a framework of "endless dreams". But whatever is constructed within the mind is just symbols and metaphors. He must have thought to move on to another "realm" of reality after knocking out his physicality. Like dreaming up different storylines and then waking up. But he might have mistaken what moves on for what stays in this "realm". These are just my thoughts on this.

Of course, the mind is tricky and language can be very subjective, especially when it comes to the attached symbols and metaphors behind the sheer words. That is why Leo's teaching CAN be misleading if you're not mentally stable and arrive at conclusions too fast about how reality is structered and shaped. He might have thought to have it figured out, that's why he took such radical action.

[The0Self]

1 minute ago, Dreamcatcher said:

So, now I've actually registered to post something here. First of all, my heart goes to the ones who are now faced with the loss of him as a friend, a parent, a lover, and finally as a person.

By what his last words here on the forum where, it seems to me that the desire to experience death in this collective reality was triggered by a conceptual misunderstanding. He tried to make conceptual sense of life and death by constructing a framework of "endless dreams". But whatever is constructed within the mind is just symbols and metaphors. He must have thought to move on to another "realm" of reality after knocking out his physicality. Like dreaming up different storylines and then waking up. But he might have mistaken what moves on for what stays in this "realm". These are just my thoughts on this.

Of course, the mind is tricky and language can be very subjective, especially when it comes to the attached symbols and metaphors behind the sheer words. That is why Leo's teaching CAN be misleading if you're not mentally stable and arrive at conclusions too fast about how reality is structered and shaped. He might have thought to have it figured out, that's why he took such radical action.

Or, he could have been depressed underneath the outwardly and inwardly projected loving exterior, and essentially turned depression into a shadow... Then perhaps he was looking for whatever excuse to end his pain -- if he could concoct a comfortable story, he'd more easily be able to go through with it.

Now, that is of course 100% conjecture, but something similar is totally plausible.