Soonhei (Member of this community) killed himself to experience Conscious Death. :-(

[Preety_India]

@Leo Gura just a heads up. you need to issue stricter disclaimers on both forum and videos that this work needs serious commitment and should never involve any form of self harm or overdose or  suicide ideation. Especially given the Connor incident and now this, such incidents can be on the rise.

 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Preety_India

[IAmReallyImportant]

11 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

@Nahm  NAHM, Sunny was an adult and is responsible for the action he took. I am just presenting what happened and sharing screenshots of his discussion as I found them. I have been on this forum on and off since he died trying to understand WHY he did this to his family. He literally had your name on his dreamboard as well. He trusted your guidance. 

If someone had no mental illness and was happy the obvious question arises if it was suicide. Even if the case was closed you can not know it 100%. However, the case of someone falling down a bridge is hard to close even with witnesses. Because, if they would be too close they would help and would not go to police if it wasn't successful or if they didn't tried it because of fear being arrested. If they would be more far away they probably haven't seen important details like what he said e.g.. I ever saw cameras installed on bridges.

He could also be forced to do this etc. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by IAmReallyImportant

[Javfly33]

4 minutes ago, Ghost said:

 

That explains a lot. This is just misunderstanding of spirituality. The mind played him, lost in concepts.

 

Sorry for your loss.

Or he just got tired of material reality ?

Don't understand why people are so dogmatic with suicide. He maybe was happy and have achieved enough emotional freedom and non-attachment. We will never know .

Pd: of course I'm not doing apology of suicide. I'm just we don't was happening through his mind 

[Scholar]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

@Leo Gura just a heads up. you need to issue stricter disclaimers on both forum and videos that this work needs serious commitment and should never involve any form of self harm or suicide ideation. Especially given the Connor incident and now this, such incidents can be on the rise.

 

This won't work. You can't just tell someone "Suicide and self harm is wrong! But also, morality is illusiory, everything including rape and torture is Love and Perfection. And by the way you can't die because you are God!".

 

You give this knowledge to a child, he will cut himself with it. This is inevitable. This is serious stuff here, you can't just market it to the masses and expect everything to go well. The disclaimers are nothing but PR games.

 

There is a reason why spiritual traditions that were successful did not spout "radical truth" to everyone on the street, telling them "You are God, I am God, it's all a dream!". If Buddhism did this it wouldn't exist today. Secondly, these traditions all firmly establish and importance in morality. There is a reason for this, it's not just "stage blue absolutism".

 

None of the stuff Leo is teaching has been tested for more than a decade, nor do we even truly know the results. We have a confirmation bias of people just praising him. You have no idea how many people already killed themselves because of this. But better pretend like it's not your responsibility. I'm sure with an attitude like that, these teachings will stand the test of time.

[Preety_India]

@Harikrishnan my intuition says this is real.

 

[Shin]

3 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Or he just got tired of material reality ?

Don't understand why people are so dogmatic with suicide. He maybe was happy and have achieved enough emotional freedom and non-attachment. We will never know .

Pd: of course I'm not doing apology of suicide. I'm just we don't was happening through his mind 

 

If you're tired of physical reality you can just awaken, you don't need to kill the ego/body.

That way, if there is other sentient beings still unconscious, like we are now, they aren't fucked up by your action.

1 hour ago, Hello from Russia said:

 

[Preety_India]

@Scholar  there will always be a percentage of people who take teachings in the wrong way. Not everyone is doing it. 

People take drugs in moderation to experience states of consciousness. Some people overdose it. 

There is no fault in teaching or teacher.

 

[Javfly33]

1 minute ago, Shin said:

That way, if there is other sentient beings still unconscious, like we are now, they aren't fucked up by your action.

And that is still attachment to other people not suffering ?

 

[Scholar]

3 minutes ago, Shin said:

That way, if there is other sentient beings still unconscious, like we are now, they aren't fucked up by your action.

Right, but you also say that other sentient beings don't exist and are only a figment of your imagination. So what is it? Are there sentient beings that are unconscious and get fucked up by his actions or are there not? I thought it was all a dream that you are imagining?

See how you will squirm and wiggle so that you can uphold your moral beliefs? You claim that morality is delusional, and then you go about preaching like a catholic priest how things are fucked up. But how can things be fucked up if everything is Goodness? Maybe it's you who has to see the Goodness here, and you are just projecting. None of this makes sense, this is why these things happen.

 

2 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@Scholar  there will always be a percentage of people who take teachings in the wrong way. Not everyone is doing it. 

People take drugs in moderation to experience states of consciousness. Some people overdose it. 

There is no fault in teaching or teacher.

Yes, and this is precisely why this will all be forgotten.

[Shin]

2 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

And that is still attachment to other people not suffering ?

 

Not necessarily, it can be compassion.

[RMQualtrough]

3 minutes ago, Scholar said:

This won't work. You can't just tell someone "Suicide and self harm is wrong! But also, morality is illusiory, everything including rape and torture is Love and Perfection. And by the way you can't die because you are God!".

 

You give this knowledge to a child, he will cut himself with it. This is inevitable. This is serious stuff here, you can't just market it to the masses and expect everything to go well. The disclaimers are nothing but PR games.

 

There is a reason why spiritual traditions that were successful did not spout "radical truth" to everyone on the street, telling them "You are God, I am God, it's all a dream!". If Buddhism did this it wouldn't exist today. Secondly, these traditions all firmly establish and importance in morality. There is a reason for this, it's not just "stage blue absolutism".

 

None of the stuff Leo is teaching has been tested for more than a decade, nor do we even truly know the results. We have a confirmation bias of people just praising him. You have no idea how many people already killed themselves because of this. But better pretend like it's not your responsibility. I'm sure with an attitude like that, these teachings will stand the test of time.

Then what would be the point of it if you have to just lie or skirt around the truth?

The first truth is that the philosophy does mean that nothing objectively matters if it's true.

The other truth is that this is JUST A THEORY. It is insane to just leap to your death on the back of a theory. It makes no sense at all to be 100% certain.

Lack of objective meaning or morals is a view a lot of people have, even completely irrespective of any spiritual belief, but people generally are not killing people or themselves because of it, largely. Not being able to die is the only novel one.

[allislove]

1 hour ago, Ghost said:

That explains a lot. This is just misunderstanding of spirituality. The mind played him, lost in concepts.

Sorry for your loss.

Yep.

Rest in peace bro ?

[Shin]

3 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Right, but you also say that other sentient beings don't exist and are only a figment of your imagination. So what is it? Are there sentient beings that are unconscious and get fucked up by his actions or are there not? I thought it was all a dream that you are imagining?

See how you will squirm and wiggle so that you can uphold your moral beliefs? You claim that morality is delusional, and then you go about preaching like a catholic priest how things are fucked up. But how can things be fucked up if everything is Goodness? Maybe it's you who has to see the Goodness here, and you are just projecting. None of this makes sense, this is why these things happen.

 

Yes, and this is precisely why this will all be forgotten.

Tbh that was just me venting an existential crisis, and yes it was projection.

[Scholar]

Just now, RMQualtrough said:

Then what would be the point of it if you have to just lie or skirt around the truth?

The first truth is that the philosophy does mean that nothing objectively matters if it's true.

The other truth is that this is JUST A THEORY. It is insane to just leap to your death on the back of a theory. It makes no sense at all to be 100% certain.

Lack of objective meaning or morals is a view a lot of people have, even completely irrespective of any spiritual belief, but people generally are not killing people or themselves because of it, largely. Not being able to die is the only novel one.

You don't have to lie about anything. The point is that you can't market this to the masses and be edgily truthful because you think bruteforcing ideology into the brains of clueless people will help them.

It's not at all insane to leap to your death if you are truly convinced of what Leo is saying. It makes 100% sense to be certain when Leo claims you can only trust your experience. I mean what do you think this leads to if you tell this to a person?

 

Yes, people don't necessarily belief in objective morals. But they do believe in their own mortality, and that other beings exist, and that reality contains suffering, and most importantly they lack conviction that all of reality is Perfection. But sure, just ignore this.

 

If you cannot be wise, reality will make you wise through suffering.

[Scholar]

See, Leo can deal with his ideology because he is an exceptionally cautious person. Someone like Connor will react completely different to the same ideas and experiences. He won't be as cautious. A solid teaching would take this into account. You can't just assume that everyone will deal with all of this like you do because you think you are being reasonable.

That's not how any of this works. This is why talking to a camera is so dangerous. You don't get the feedback, you don't see how people react to what you say. You don't see the consequences.

 

You are doing an experiment and are completely blind to what is even going on. You assume that you are being wise, but you are unwilling to even test yourself. That is the opposite of wisdom.

[SQAAD]

@Leo Gura

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

 

What's important to underscore is that spirituality and enlightenment has nothing to do with physically harming the body. I've said that in the past and I will stress it more in the future. A few weeks ago I started to add larger disclaimers to my videos stressing the point that enlightenment has nothing to do with harming of the body. You can find the new, larger, clearer disclaimers under my recent videos on YT.

Life is a dream and a game, but if you jump off a bridge, this dream will end and you will probably regret it.

Not only should you not harm your physical body, you should take good care of it, being extra responsible with your health. A spiritual person must treat their health with more care than the average person.

In your video ('Dangers of Spiritual Work') you have talked about that if someone will go All the way with spirituality then at the end he will have to surrender his entire life. This sounds like suicide.

Also i don't think someone who commits suicide , regrets it.

[SpiritualAwakening]

1 hour ago, SoonHei said:

@Leo Gura Hi Leo! This is SoonHei's sister using his account trying to find out why he took the step that he did. I can confirm that he did in fact die on May 3rd by jumping off of a bridge.

His message to his wife was: "Oh I was never ending it. I was just continuing it. I just wanted to jump. Love you all. See you soon."

Similar message to what he sent to the person who started this thread (first post).

Now most important, Sunny asked NAHM very directly before committing this act. I really wish NAHM had guided him better. Sunny could not have been clearer. I will attach screenshots of their conversation in my next post.

If someone can tell us what he was trying to do, please do.

We cannot explain to you the shock of his death. We cannot wrap our heads around why he would do this. Sunny was someone who has literally saved others from depression and suicide. We keep hearing stories from people that he helped in their darkest hour. I can tell you for a fact that he did not suffer from any mental illness or depression. Sunny was SO SO full of life.

He has left behind a 3 month old and a 20 month old. It is hard to even look at his 27-yr-old wife who was barely out of the post-partum phase with her baby. I see our whole family going into depression... Sunny was a very central part of our family. The most kind-hearted soul. An amazing son, a wonderful husband, the most supportive brother, and above all, a one-in-a-million father.

I feel like our whole family will go into depression...

My condolences to you and your family sister..

Also this might not be something you like to hear or accept, but there was nothing @Nahm could have done or said to have prevented @SoonHei's decision to act upon his desire for 'conscious death'. In the end @SoonHei is as much Self-Realized as @Nahm is, both not giving authority to anyone and just communicating for means of insight.

Nevertheless I understand the pain and grief you're going through right now and how much you would have loved for any of us to try and save him.. <3

Edited May 19, 2021 by SpiritualAwakening

[Joel3102]

13 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Right, but you also say that other sentient beings don't exist and are only a figment of your imagination. So what is it? Are there sentient beings that are unconscious and get fucked up by his actions or are there not? I thought it was all a dream that you are imagining?

 

You’re right. You can’t say that everything is imaginary and other beings don’t exist they’re all imagined, then tell us not to go out and torture people for a living. You can’t have it both ways. By this logic, there’s no less reason to massacre people for the sake of it than there is to massacre people in a GTA5 video game. They’re both unreal

[SoonHei]

@Sleyker I messaged NAHM about this just a couple of days after his death and made him aware and asked him what the heck sunny was trying to do. Last night, the originator of this particular thread got in touch with someone from our family on FB and that is when we checked what discussions SoonHei was having with him and came back on this forum again. Today I noticed a notification that a thread has mentioned SoonHei.

Edited May 20, 2021 by SoonHei

[Roy]

That's so sad. I hope his family can get some closure. They deserve it.

This is why you ultimately can't trust anybody for these big picture life questions and understandings. Yes you listen to different teachers, read books, and explore different concepts. But whatever conclusions you come to have to be completely authentic and independent, and they usually take a lifetime to develop. Time breeds humility and understanding.

If you think you've somehow got the answers to life (and death) by listening to a 30 something year old talking head on YouTube, you've completely lost the plot................