Brandon Nankivell

If you become fully enlightened, what prevents you from falling back into Samsara?

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Assuming the theory of the Wheel of Life / Samsara is true, why is it that figures like Osho and Buddha say that you escape the cycle of suffering forever? Why couldn't you fall back in? Apparently the wheel of life is begininngless, if it's begininngless though, wouldn't it be endless also?

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I think you can be above the suffering of samsara but not beyond it when you get enlightened.

You only get beyond it when you enter Nirvana. I think entering a realm as nirvana is a permanent thing and you can't get back to samsara to help other beings ever again in this kalpa.

Probably spiritual evolution is endless. But it doesn't continue endlessly in the physical or samsaric plane of existence. There is probably a non-physical plane of evolution after the physical and so fort.

Edited by SolarWarden
Oh sorry, I didn't even try to answer your question, lol.

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Because they realize that Nirvana and Samsara are the same, all is one.

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Become fully enlightened = become fully deluded :D 


What a dream, what a joke, love it   :x

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suffering is of the ego. If you transcend the ego, you transcend suffering. you stop being trapped in the trap that you are, and you free yourself. It is not that you dont fall into the ego trap again, it is that it was never real, an appearance kept you trapped, and the suffering was a distortion between what is and what you projected as "it should be". Regarding different lives, all lives are the same, there is no you that comes out of the wheel since individuality is appearance, it is not real.

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Because there never was Samsara. It's already Nirvana, but what appears can be illusory, in that duality is believed and experienced, rather than simply appearing.

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The Tibetan/Dzogchen answer to this is that awareness once existed without self-knowledge, i.e. animals and insects without self-consciousness. Then awareness progresses to self-recognition but is deluded by seeing its manifestations as separate - i.e. self and other. Full enlightenment constitutes the awareness recognizing its own appearance and not being further deluded by it. You might think of it as awareness being permanently "vaccinated" against making the same error as before :)

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On 4/28/2021 at 0:04 PM, Brandon Nankivell said:

Assuming the theory of the Wheel of Life / Samsara is true, why is it that figures like Osho and Buddha say that you escape the cycle of suffering forever? Why couldn't you fall back in? Apparently the wheel of life is begininngless, if it's begininngless though, wouldn't it be endless also?

The purpose of incarnations on the Physical Plane is to recognize and materialize the own spiritual essence. When we achieve this, we end the cycle of birth and death, after which as immortal spiritual consciousness (which we are now, but immaterialized) we continue our development on spiritual planes, to the level of creator of a completely new Universe, the Universe created in accordance with our ideas and concepts.

Edited by SpiritualDandelion

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On 28/04/2021 at 9:29 PM, Nahm said:

Because there is not two. 

There's the illusion of two though, right? Pretty much every one of us humans. So what stops an enlightened human from falling back into the illusion?

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Needing people to be different than what they are in order for you to respect them,

Would definitely be a big hindrance.

9_9


God is love

Whoever lives in love lives in God

And God in them

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The cessation of self(so-called enlightenment) transcends the concept of enlightenment and samsara simultaneously because its clearly seen there was never anyone to be illusioned or disillusioned in the first place. It literally makes it not applicable.

It's the Transcendence of Concepts such as Heaven or Hell good or bad right or wrong.

Freedom is the best word.

But for no one!! O.o

 


“Everything is honoured, but nothing matters.” — Eckhart Tolle.

"I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the inside." -- Rumi

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On 28/04/2021 at 0:27 PM, erik8lrl said:

Suffering is bliss.

said like a true masochist 


               🌟

🌟  The  🌟 Logos 🌟

               🌟

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@Brandon Nankivell the more conscious you become, the less suffering.  suffering, at its core, is imaginary.  So the more conscious one becomes the less suffering can rear its ugly head....its not really about awakening, although it is...because in a deep awakening your state of consciousness expands so entirely that when you come back to human levels of consciousness your baseline is much higher after awakening.    There is suffering of the ego mind and then things like physical pain (suffering in the form of physical pain).  (Though they are connected)

 In my experience transcending  suffering of the mind is easier to transcend then suffering in the form of physical pain of the body, that's why its still so important to take care of your body.  Even physical pain can be transcended, though, through higher consciousness as well, but it is much more difficult, i would say.


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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On 2021-04-28 at 0:04 PM, Brandon Nankivell said:

Assuming the theory of the Wheel of Life / Samsara is true, why is it that figures like Osho and Buddha say that you escape the cycle of suffering forever? Why couldn't you fall back in? Apparently the wheel of life is begininngless, if it's begininngless though, wouldn't it be endless also?

If you fell back into samsara it wouldnt be fully enlightenment. It's the final liberation where there no longer is any identification left with that which can fall back. Yet it's going back into Samsara without believing that it's true. "To be of in the world but not of it."

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On 4/28/2021 at 10:04 AM, Brandon Nankivell said:

Assuming the theory of the Wheel of Life / Samsara is true, why is it that figures like Osho and Buddha say that you escape the cycle of suffering forever? Why couldn't you fall back in? Apparently the wheel of life is begininngless, if it's begininngless though, wouldn't it be endless also?

Because it's impossible to forget about the self, or in a sense "unsee it", once it is realized. It is absolute in its permanence.

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On 4/28/2021 at 6:04 AM, Brandon Nankivell said:

Assuming the theory of the Wheel of Life / Samsara is true, why is it that figures like Osho and Buddha say that you escape the cycle of suffering forever? Why couldn't you fall back in? Apparently the wheel of life is begininngless, if it's begininngless though, wouldn't it be endless also?

If someone believes a thing is a snake and then realizes it is actually a rope, has the person escaped the delusion of snakeness forever? What would need to happen to fall back into the delusion of snakeness? One would need to forget that it's actually a rope to fall back into believing it is a snake. Alternatively, one could trick themself back into believing it's a snake. 

I would also draw a distinction between the "you" that realizes and the realization itself. The realization that it's actually a rope is eternal. However, human awareness of that realization is not necessarily eternal. 

Imagine someone playing a character in a movie, yet the movie goes on 24/7 without any breaks. At first, the characters would fully realize this is just a movie they are acting in. Yet over time it could get more and more real. There are real risks in the movie and people actually die. The characters have children and try to explain "this is just a movie we are acting in", yet this wouldn't make sense to the children since the "movie" is the only reality they know. 

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