I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

[CreamCat]

On 2/23/2019 at 10:55 AM, winterknight said:

You cannot ask someone who is enlightened -- well, you can, but it is not enough -- because it cannot be put in words.

You cannot explain orgasm in words to someone who hasn't experienced orgasm.

[CreamCat]

Is enlightenment like realizing the nature of the movie projected onto the screen? When my sleeping dream became lucid, it felt like enlightenment because the screen enlightened.

[winterknight]

49 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

Is enlightenment like realizing the nature of the movie projected onto the screen? When my sleeping dream became lucid, it felt like enlightenment because the screen enlightened.

It's like that but it's also not like that. Best not to get too attached to any metaphor.

[Shin]

26 minutes ago, winterknight said:

It's like that but it's also not like that. Best not to get too attached to any metaphor.

 

How so ?

[winterknight]

3 hours ago, Shin said:

How so ?

Well, in the sense that biting into a crisp apple is like seeing a waterfall, but also isn't like that. 

Actually, in that sense, but also not 

[Shin]

16 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Well, in the sense that biting into a crisp apple is like seeing a waterfall, but also isn't like that. 

Actually, in that sense, but also not 

Ok.

Is that make sense to expect a paradigm shift out of my control rather than trying to understand ?

[winterknight]

26 minutes ago, Shin said:

Ok.

Is that make sense to expect a paradigm shift out of my control rather than trying to understand ?

Well, actually, understanding can be good. You want an intellectual framework -- particularly if you're the kind of person who feels the deep need for that.

How much of an understanding do you need? Enough that you feel motivated to look within. Enough that you are able to cope with life while you are looking within.

So yes, do try to understand and ask questions. Read the scriptures, reflect on them, and try to comprehend. 

But -- then realize that it is indeed a paradigm shift out of your control. Realize that everything said in words is wrong, and that only your own inner concentration can give you real answers.

So you have to be able to hold those two truths in mind:

a) it is worth trying to understand to some extent

b) a verbal understanding will never be accurate

[CreamCat]

Is enlightenment like being always on LSD?

This is Leo Gura on LSD.

Does enlightenment provide different experiences from the ones provided by 5-MeO-DMT and LSD?

Weirdly, after having a lucid dream and learning some theories, Leo's enlightenment experience sounds logical.

Edited March 11, 2019 by CreamCat

[Victor Mgazi]

@winterknight @winterknight

Are you aware of a Truth? Maybe one that is foremost and you hold high. 

[Jordan94]

Hey @winterknight , thanks again for all the help

 

I'm being really interested and liking the way of Davis Hawkins in his book "The pathway of surender", are you familliar with his work ?

If yes what would be you're advices to optimize the progress on this path ? any traps to be careful of ?

[SoonHei]

@win@winterknight 

From the fully realized "POV" which I consider to be yours/mooji/spira/tolle's ever-present experience which doesn't shift back and forth... From that POV, would the "awakened one" care or have preference over if IT were to shift between having the POV of a character who is awakened and rich vs a character who is awakened and poor, homeless and say partially blind.

 

 

In other words, when that "which I am" is seen as already and eternally to be self realized would it care about what then unfolds out in my life? Like if there is hardship initially and then whatever or even hardship and a.continued downward spiral... As long as one is buddah, there is no more to be done? 

It is, as it is?

Even with the character sitting down and doing nothing, and having the realization he is buddah, this is ok?

(I am sure Bad for the character but ok for the self) 

 

Another question

The realization that all is unfolding as it should really for.me personally brings me to just being ok with the situation, no matter how shitty things are... But the trick here is that this may allow things to get worse because you aren't doing anything about it.

It's almost as if it's like the character really has to be okay with the present circumstances if it's the reflection of the understanding, however should also look back and see the repetitive negative behaviours leading the line of destruction of your life and what you should learn your responsibility as the ME and create and work for the work which will bring your life back to track.

[winterknight]

15 hours ago, CreamCat said:

Is enlightenment like being always on LSD?

No.

12 hours ago, Victor Mgazi said:

@winterknight @winterknight

Are you aware of a Truth? Maybe one that is foremost and you hold high. 

Yes. The Truth is that Truth cannot be an object of awareness. 

4 hours ago, Jordan94 said:

Hey @winterknight , thanks again for all the help

 

I'm being really interested and liking the way of Davis Hawkins in his book "The pathway of surender", are you familliar with his work ?

If yes what would be you're advices to optimize the progress on this path ? any traps to be careful of ?

I don't know anything about Hawkins. My general advice is here.

44 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

@win@winterknight From the fully realized "POV" which I consider to be yours/mooji/spira/tolle's ever-present experience which doesn't shift back and forth... From that POV, would the "awakened one" care or have preference over if IT were to shift between having the POV of a character who is awakened and rich vs a character who is awakened and poor, homeless and say partially blind.

There may be the appearance of caring or having a preference, but that appearance is not identified with. That appearance is not a person. It is not a person caring or preferring.

But the important thing is to find out yourself. These kinds of questions cannot be answered in words. The truth is so simple and will answer these kinds of questions in a way that my answers will never be able to.

Quote

Even with the character sitting down and doing nothing, and having the realization he is buddah, this is ok?

The realization is that there is no character, so who is to call it ok or not?

Quote

The realization that all is unfolding as it should really for.me personally brings me to just being ok with the situation, no matter how shitty things are... But the trick here is that this may allow things to get worse because you aren't doing anything about it.

It's almost as if it's like the character really has to be okay with the present circumstances if it's the reflection of the understanding, however should also look back and see the repetitive negative behaviours leading the line of destruction of your life and what you should learn your responsibility as the ME and create and work for the work which will bring your life back to track.

Who is the one calling the situation better or worse? Are you that person? 

If you investigate the I feeling deeply, you will see that you are not either choosing to do or not to do, and then these questions will not bother you.

These questions show that more investigation is required.

 

Edited March 11, 2019 by winterknight

[SoonHei]

@winterknight thank you. A pleasure as always. 

[Preetom]

@winterknight

I wanna thank you a lot for emphasizing the science of desire and emotions so much in your teachings.

Recently, it's been my experience that self-inquiry itself is the easiest and most joyous thing there is. My very being is Self-inquiry/Self-attention.

But stomaching the 'Truth', that is the one and only hard thing. No wonder all desires, beliefs and emotions will have to align themselves to finally accept the Truth as it is.

 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Preetom

[AlwaysBeNice]

On 3/10/2019 at 0:35 PM, EmptinessDncing said:

@winterknight  Did you know that it is common for enlightened people to get depressed?

Slander and then making such a claim, right, who told you that?

I am not saying it's impossible, but the wise can surrender themselves beyond it, or may even appreciate it if it can help serve others in an empathic connection.

Edited March 11, 2019 by AlwaysBeNice

[Victor Mgazi]

@winterknight @winterknight

2 hours ago, winterknight said:

The Truth is that Truth cannot be an object of awareness. 

Can you elaborate on this statement. 

Are you referring to truth in general or a specific truth when you say "Truth cannot be an object of awareness."?  

[winterknight]

6 hours ago, Preetom said:

@winterknight

I wanna thank you a lot for emphasizing the science of desire and emotions so much in your teachings.

Recently, it's been my experience that self-inquiry itself is the easiest and most joyous thing there is. My very being is Self-inquiry/Self-attention.

But stomaching the 'Truth', that is the one and only hard thing. No wonder all desires, beliefs and emotions will have to align themselves to finally accept the Truth as it is.

Yes indeed

3 hours ago, Victor Mgazi said:

@winterknight @winterknight

Can you elaborate on this statement. 

Are you referring to truth in general or a specific truth when you say "Truth cannot be an object of awareness."?  

I'm talking about enlightenment, the truth of who you really are -- follow these links if you want to learn more.

[Skanzi]

I don't understand what enlightenment is. How can I search for something if I don't know what it is that I am searching for? I have had peak experiences, or deep insights accompanied with a sense of relief through my insight, but I don't feel like I've come to know what enlightenment or an "enlightenment experience" is. I can label any experiences or insights I have as such, but how do I know that I am simply not befooling myself?

Is enlightenment an experience or an attitude? Is it a feeling of whatever kind —peace, joy, bliss— or more an attitude TOWARDS what you are experiencing. In fact, how do draw the boundary line between a feeling and attitude? We can speak of a "peaceful attitude", but that translates in the end in an experience of peace of the feeling of peace. Peak experiences, and thus feelings, I can only intellectually understand as something tied to duality, so it can not be the real thing, I would assume. But this is merely an assumption so this could be wrong.

If an attitude would translate into a feeling, as I can define no clear boundary lines, then what else could I be searching for in enlightenment but to feel good? I thought for some time that I was searching for an attitude, but I feel like that makes no sense now.

I can not understand my search for enlightenment to be anything other than to feel good, in some way or another. Is this what I'm supposed to search for, and is this what I'm supposed to find? If it were to be some sort of feeling, is that which I would find as a feeling something that is beyond dualities? Something that does not return to its opposite? Then how would I have known if I have found it? And if it were not to be some sort of feeling, then what is it truly worth?

Is enlightenment something that I can conceptualize even as the vaguest pointer in the almost complete dark? Or is it simply a mystery until it hits you? Are all my attempts to understand or conceptualize it with my mind to complete, utter lack of avail?

In fact, does enlightenment even exist? Am I made to believe in a lie? Why should I even believe that it exists? Just because spiritual teachers tell me so? Just because spiritual seekers agree that it exists? I have no true evidence, so why should I believe? And even more fundamental than that: WHAT am I supposed to believe, or disbelief, or neither believe or disbelief?

The only thing I can imagine myself doing is to search something for which would make me feel good. I will try. Not necessarily by conscious choice but I know I will anyway.

Because if it were not a feeling I was looking for, then what the hell am I supposed to be searching for? Or what am I supposed to find? What will anything other than a good feeling be worth?

 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Skanzi

[EmptinessDncing]

On 3/11/2019 at 1:29 AM, winterknight said:

These statements are all true so far as they go, but they are all holding on to the diving board. What would happen if you let yourself fall into the water?

THE QUESTION SHOULD BE WHY NOT SINK DEEPER ONTO THE OCEAN?  WHY HANG AROUND NEAR THE SURFACE?  LIFE IS DYSFUNCTIONAL.  5D IS VERY AWKWARD WHEN RUNNING A FAMILY AND CAREER.  AT THIS CURRENT TIME WHERE I'M HANGING OUT IS GREAT.  LIFE FLOWS.  5D CREATES PROBLEMS.  SEVERE MEMORY ISSUES, APATHY, UNORGANISATION, INCONSIDERATENESS.  HERE IS DIVINE, AND FUNCTIONAL IN MY CURRENT REALITY, PERFECT.  BEYOND MIND COULD BE CONSIDERED ESCAPISM COULD IT NOT?

There is a mode of life which is subtler and which totally evades the mind. YES, THE CONVENTIONAL MIND IS RELATIVELY PATHETIC COMPARED TO A STATE OF INSTANT KNOWING.  IF ONLY THE INSTANT KNOWING GOT MY KIDS TO BIRTHDAY PARTIES AND STUDY AND MARKETING DONE. ONE TEACHER TOLD ME THE TRANSITION JUST HAPPENS NATURALLY OVER TIME AFTER AWAKENING, TOO.

Their minds may appear to be depressed, but the "enlightened person" does not identify with that appearance.

I DON'T KNOW TO BE HONEST, I'VE NEVER BEEN DEPRESSED.  PRESUMABLY THERE IS SIMPLY A CHEMICAL REASON AND IT IS SEEN JUST IN THE BODY LIKE EVERY OTHER EMOTION. SO DEPRESSION, BUT NOT SUFFERING.

If there is an ego, which there really isn't, then it is kept 'in check' by the automatic operation of knowledge, which fixes the mind irretrievably on its source. Then it's like a ball dropped and vibrating less and less over time, less and less and less. And in truth it cannot be said to be vibrating at all. 

HMM, SLIPPERY SLOPE IMO.  ENLIGHTENED PERSON STARTS CULT.  NOT COOL FROM A DUALISTIC PERSPECTIVE, FROM NON-DUAL THERE IS NOTHING.  NO RULES, NOTHING MATTERS, NO REASON TO CARE WHO ANYONE FUCKS.  THERE ARE NO PEOPLE.  ARE YOU ANY DIFFERENT?  WHAT'S TO STOP YOU DOING IT?  AND DON'T GO ON ABOUT THE NON-DUAL OBVIOUS.  HOW DO YOU KNOW YOU CAN MANAGE ON YOUR OWN?  YOU CAN'T HONESTLY SAY YOU DO KNOW.  PERSONALLY I'D TRUST SOMEONE MORE THAT WASN'T ENLIGHTENED BECAUSE AT LEAST THEY STILL THINK MORALS ARE REAL.  WHY DO I CARE?  I'M JUST PASSIONATE ABOUT WAKING PEOPLE UP, NOT FUCKING THEM UP.

Look, I don't mean to be too harsh on your teachings, you seem fairly clear.  I've obviously got a thing going on and this is what it is...   I'm not content with the regular way of teaching, nor checks and balances on spiritual teachers.  There must be a better way. that's what I'm digging for.

[Victor Mgazi]

6 hours ago, winterknight said:

Yes indeed

I'm talking about enlightenment, the truth of who you really are -- follow these links if you want to learn more.

Yes I have followed the links but they don't really reveal much about you, which is what I'm interested in: learning more about you. That's if you don't mind. 

I have heard and learned a lot about enlightenment , but not much on it's effect on the average person. I've heard about the eternal state of bliss or the end of suffering, merging with the very fabric of reality, becoming infinite, awakening from our 'dream state' and on and... 

But then at this moment in time I don't feel like I want to stop any suffering or confusion or experiencing what people tend to refer to as ego death and all of that. I'm quite satisfied with the way things are right now. But I am interested in the effects, in terms of how you go about your daily life and see the world.

Which brings me to this second question:

What are your ingredients of identifying that you'd consider true? You say "Truth cannot be an object of awareness.", what 'tool/tools' did you use to draw this conclusion.