winterknight

I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

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What's the difference between using "Who/where/what am I?" to dissolve the questioner/I-thought, and focusing on the feeling of "I Am"? When would you use one over the other in the pre-enlightened state? Can they be combined? And is it correct these are the two practices you recommend outside of the psychoanalysis/follow desire/emotions stuff?

Sorry if you've already answered this. & Thanks in advance.

Edited by Outer

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2 hours ago, Outer said:

What's the difference between using "Who/where/what am I?" to dissolve the questioner/I-thought, and focusing on the feeling of "I Am"?

They're the same thing, really. What are you grasping when you grasp the feeling of "I am"? Is it in fact a feeling? Just to try to grasp that so-called feeling is the same as this "who am I?" type question. In fact, the I am cannot be focused on or grasped. You are it. But trying to grasp it is what leads you to that realization.

Quote

 

When would you use one over the other in the pre-enlightened state? Can they be combined? And is it correct these are the two practices you recommend outside of the psychoanalysis/follow desire/emotions stuff?

 

Well these are both just articulations of self-inquiry, which is one practice; the other is surrender -- which is letting go of all desire.


Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self

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@winterknight

Just curious, ever had or heard from anyone directly - having an infinity, or ‘nothingness’, ‘glimpse’ from self inquiry, or other practices? Or just primarily the feeling / realization?

Thanks!

Love this thread btw, much appreciated ♥️


  Nonduality & Meditations          Have You Worked On Your Alone?

Empty your head, fulfill your heart       

 

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3 hours ago, winterknight said:

They're the same thing, really. What are you grasping when you grasp the feeling of "I am"? Is it in fact a feeling? Just to try to grasp that so-called feeling is the same as this "who am I?" type question. In fact, the I am cannot be focused on or grasped. You are it. But trying to grasp it is what leads you to that realization.

It's not a feeling, it's just "I Am". Sight, hearing, touch, feeling, thought (except the circular I-thought which is a kind of  trance state), is I Am to me. I don't know what this I Am is though, that's weird. I think it's just consciousness. What can be. Not what can be in it. What is. The difference in searching for I Am and negating the questioner to me is that the search affirms the I Am with thinking. I know I Am. Of course in an intuitive way. But with dissolving the questioner I never pay attention to I Am. I think the only way you could've started this thread is because you search for the I Am and affirm it. Else you could've just been anybody else, except without a questioner. To know that you (winterknight) is enlightened you must've non-self-referentially thought it, I think, right now. But that is just a hypothesis.

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5 hours ago, winterknight said:

They're the same thing, really. What are you grasping when you grasp the feeling of "I am"? Is it in fact a feeling? Just to try to grasp that so-called feeling is the same as this "who am I?" type question. In fact, the I am cannot be focused on or grasped. You are it. But trying to grasp it is what leads you to that realization.

 

I feeling or sense of me is an object with in the field of conciousness. It is this i feeling which is identity giving the idea that i am the body mind and a limited human being. 

The question who i am or to whom the thought is appearing gives no answer or silence as answer. 

So focusing on i feeling which is a seperate object in the field of conciousness is different from trying to hold on to silence  isn't it???, 🤔

 

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7 hours ago, SriBhagwanYogi said:

Surrendering something like this 

Yup

7 hours ago, Nahm said:

@winterknight

Just curious, ever had or heard from anyone directly - having an infinity, or ‘nothingness’, ‘glimpse’ from self inquiry, or other practices? Or just primarily the feeling / realization?

Thanks!

Love this thread btw, much appreciated ♥️

When self-inquiry shows the temporary dissolution of ego, that is precisely what's known as a 'glimpse.' It cannot be accurately described, so some people call it infinity, and some call it nothingness, and some call it spaciousness. The I feeling is followed to get to the glimpse, which is simply a recognition of one's nature.

It's called a glimpse because it seems to come and go, but actually it never comes or goes.

7 hours ago, Outer said:

It's not a feeling, it's just "I Am". Sight, hearing, touch, feeling, thought (except the circular I-thought which is a kind of  trance state), is I Am to me. I don't know what this I Am is though, that's weird. I think it's just consciousness. What can be. Not what can be in it. What is. The difference in searching for I Am and negating the questioner to me is that the search affirms the I Am with thinking. I know I Am. Of course in an intuitive way. But with dissolving the questioner I never pay attention to I Am. I think the only way you could've started this thread is because you search for the I Am and affirm it. Else you could've just been anybody else, except without a questioner. To know that you (winterknight) is enlightened you must've non-self-referentially thought it, I think, right now. But that is just a hypothesis.

This is making it too complicated.

It's quite simple: if you're dissatisfied, if you're searching, if you want something (including enlightenment) and don't know how to get it, there is the illusory I, whether you think so or not. So you have to inquire into to whom this dissatisfaction appears. 

if there's effortless peace while being able to function in the world, then that is the true "I."

4 hours ago, Jkris said:

I feeling or sense of me is an object with in the field of conciousness. It is this i feeling which is identity giving the idea that i am the body mind and a limited human being. 

The question who i am or to whom the thought is appearing gives no answer or silence as answer. 

So focusing on i feeling which is a seperate object in the field of conciousness is different from trying to hold on to silence  isn't it???, 🤔

It's not a question you ask like a factual question expecting some answer. It's focusing on the feeling... you do know that you are. You are aware of this "object within the field of consciousness."

That feeling -- hold that feeling. And then ask what it is you think you are holding. You will find that if you think you are holding something, it is not the I. Because you are aware of that something, and you cannot be something of which you are aware. So then again try to hold that feeling... and again and again and again until you understand just how it is that you know that you are.


Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self

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@winterknight

Hey mate,

When I do self-inquiry (just starting but have been meditating cpl years), I get quite a lot of energy sensations throughout my body and it starts to feel blissful like other meditation but then I am curious how the process of enlightenment actually happens.  I have had a 5meo nondual experience before which was really intense and I feel the longer I meditate/self-inquire it starts to subtly bring it back.  I am confused because some people say Self-realization is actually a pretty simple thing and it is not a mystical state, appearances don't change and without blissful emotions etc so I guess I am just wondering what the literal process is when it happens.  Does a person initially realizing enlightenment feel that they have became this infinite conciousness I have experienced (maybe just less intense than tripping), permanently? is that what I am "looking" for?  So in that sense is it somewhat mystical in comparison to this ordinary state of conciousness I have now?  Or is it still pretty ordinary literally just without identifying with the self (which still makes it significant)?

Also does it feel like death when it happens?  Does it happen over a few seconds or minutes or...?  Is there resistance while it happens?

Sorry for the longer question and thanks heaps for any insight!

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5 hours ago, winterknight said:

This is making it too complicated.

It's quite simple: if you're dissatisfied, if you're searching, if you want something (including enlightenment) and don't know how to get it, there is the illusory I, whether you think so or not. So you have to inquire into to whom this dissatisfaction appears. 

if there's effortless peace while being able to function in the world, then that is the true "I."

That helps. Thanks.

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Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, AMS said:

@winterknight

Hey mate,

When I do self-inquiry (just starting but have been meditating cpl years), I get quite a lot of energy sensations throughout my body and it starts to feel blissful like other meditation but then I am curious how the process of enlightenment actually happens.  I have had a 5meo nondual experience before which was really intense and I feel the longer I meditate/self-inquire it starts to subtly bring it back.  I am confused because some people say Self-realization is actually a pretty simple thing and it is not a mystical state, appearances don't change and without blissful emotions etc so I guess I am just wondering what the literal process is when it happens.  Does a person initially realizing enlightenment feel that they have became this infinite conciousness I have experienced (maybe just less intense than tripping), permanently? is that what I am "looking" for?  So in that sense is it somewhat mystical in comparison to this ordinary state of conciousness I have now?  Or is it still pretty ordinary literally just without identifying with the self (which still makes it significant)?

Also does it feel like death when it happens?  Does it happen over a few seconds or minutes or...?  Is there resistance while it happens?

Sorry for the longer question and thanks heaps for any insight!

It's one of those things that can't really be described, but you'll know it when you find it. Having an image of what you're looking for will be an obstacle.

It's not like some 5meo mystical experience. It is simply the recognition of what is already the case. At the same time, it is not ordinary.

It does not necessarily "feel like death" when it happens, and in fact ultimately if you feel like it's "happening" that's not enlightenment; that's merely the outer covering.

The glimpses of enlightenment will be like an inversion of the I -- the I that you thought you were will actually be within the real I. They will feel like clarity & peace & expansion of awareness.

But if enlightenment is stable it is not exactly like that. It is not like anything.

Again, you're not to be looking for anything. Any images you have of what it is or "how it's going to happen" are going to be problems. What I'd suggest is to educate yourself deeply and follow the path.

Edited by winterknight

Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self

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Hi winterknight, I have another question. I've read a lot about that when enlightenment happens a byproduct of it would be having no thoughts anymore (random subconscious thoughts) is that a consequence of the realization ?
I feel Like I am done, because of the undisturbing peace that the realization brings, but still some random thoughts appear, for example I heard a song on the radio and the song kept playing as thoughts afterwards, but way less thoughts than before are appearing, so I think maybe I'm not done yet, but I feel like I am.

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1 hour ago, Dumb Enlightened said:

Hi winterknight, I have another question. I've read a lot about that when enlightenment happens a byproduct of it would be having no thoughts anymore (random subconscious thoughts) is that a consequence of the realization ?
I feel Like I am done, because of the undisturbing peace that the realization brings, but still some random thoughts appear, for example I heard a song on the radio and the song kept playing as thoughts afterwards, but way less thoughts than before are appearing, so I think maybe I'm not done yet, but I feel like I am.

When you are "done," you will not have this doubt. This very question arises from not having understood what you are. When you are "done," even thoughts will be non-thoughts.


Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self

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41 minutes ago, winterknight said:

When you are "done," you will not have this doubt. This very question arises from not having understood what you are. When you are "done," even thoughts will be non-thoughts.

Thanks !!! I'll go further

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@winterknight

 I think I understand what happened to me, when I first started self inquiry the 'I" that I am seemed to be a focused point in the head, I felt the I was there, like a perceiver who obeserved everything. Now it's like this point expanded and it's everywhere and nowhere at the same time, it's like a void, I feel peace and serenity, but I know it isn't the end yet

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Posted (edited)

6 minutes ago, Dumb Enlightened said:

@winterknight

 I think I understand what happened to me, when I first started self inquiry the 'I" that I am seemed to be a focused point in the head, I felt the I was there, like a perceiver who obeserved everything. Now it's like this point expanded and it's everywhere and nowhere at the same time, it's like a void, I feel peace and serenity, but I know it isn't the end yet

If you are peace and serenity and you are everywhere and nowhere, then who is it that is worried about whether it's "the end" or not?

Edited by winterknight

Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self

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Posted (edited)

When the end comes there will be no one there to know it.
There was never anyone there in the first place.
xD

Edited by who chit

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@winterknight

Thanks !! It's something really, really trick because when we think 'that's it' is just another type of false identification, the ' I ' was always the problem, because it cannot be found, in the end there's no I, there's just being, and it's something that cannot be described using language, there's nothing to say about it, it feels like a joke xD , thanks for all the help

 

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