Husseinisdoingfine

Conservative activist, Charlie Kirk, has been shot and killed at University

567 posts in this topic

To me Charlie was the biggest cult recruiter of young people, he was a preacher of the ideologies. Some of you keep trying to make this to be about trying to silence free speech but I can't fathom that at all. Charlie Kirk was a Charles Manson of MAGA, he promoted violence. He didn't tell specific people to kill other specific people, but with a massive audience his stochastic terrorism is lethal.

Edited by Elliott

Make America Great Again, Trump 2028

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2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

He will definitely be caught now.

I don't think we can know that. He looks extra skinny for American, picture this, he regularly has long hair and beard and 25 extra pounds, he altered his image for this and now will hide out in Utah wilderness during peak camping season, and regrow his hair and body fat.....

Edited by Elliott

Make America Great Again, Trump 2028

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7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Be careful.

Yes, cruelty exists on the left. But you should consider the cruelty that exists on the right. There is no comparision.

The right today is acting like the left are monsters, totally blind to how the right reacts when left-wingers are attacked or killed. The same people outraged the most over this would be laughing if a leftist was murdered.

The notion that the right has moral high ground here, or is more empathetic overall, is objectively false, as Kirk himself denounced the value of empathy.

Right-wingers only have emapthy for their own, when their own are hurt.

MAGA has ruined democracy for years. And now it will continue to worsen. Prominant MAGA today are calling for the end of the entire Democrat party, which had nothing to do with this attack. So don't pretend they care about democracy. MAGA has always been anti-democracy and Charlie Kirk lead that movement.

A lone murderous psychopath does not represent the left. But that is exactly what MAGA will push as the narrative, further eroding democracy.

We live in highly polarized, radicalized times. There a plenty of psychopaths and lunatics on both sides. Do not overlook that. 98% of both parties are non-violent and the extremeist 1% no one controls.

One couldn't be more accurate if they even wanted to.

I do not use Youtube app or website.I browse it via Tor and other frontends with no ads/shorts. So I never log in on Yt.

The amount of right winged commentary promoted even if one searches for literally anything aside from news, an indie video game  or a cooking recipe, is BONKERS
The comments under those posts, even more radical ones. Only 'Sky News Australia' is recommended on EU and Asian Yt without login. Which is so so right winged aligned, they have a segment named "Lefties losing it" where they nit pick the most deranged Neo Liberals tiktoks

Under all of these outlets, He is being portrayed as a Maytr and ideal "who was silenced". 


I recently watched the "Systems Thinking" video again, nothing could better describe the upcoming shifts in the society, specifically against minorities and POC groups, including in EU. 

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Edited by Elliott

Make America Great Again, Trump 2028

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12 hours ago, zazen said:

Can’t have a marketplace of ideas if having those ideas gets you killed. The rights of speech and arms ultimately cancel each other out in a broken society lacking social cohesion and civic sense to exercise those rights wisely.

They were intended to check the tyranny of the state - but what happens when the “other” is viewed as the tyranny? These were tools of liberation and democracy designed for a cohesive society that all agreed on some basic fundamentals - including what they considered a threat.

The misuse of the first right (free speech) creates the conditions for the misuse of the second right (to bear arms). The fear of the “other” to use arms, has a chilling effect on the “other” to exercise their right to speak freely.

The macro blindspot in all this is in enlightenment values and liberalism itself: that assumes wisdom and responsibility scales to the masses by default. Liberalism conflates equality of dignity with equality of discernment and responsibility.

Don’t mistake the tools of civilization (rights, democracy, liberty) for civilization itself. Don’t believe that simply possessing free speech, guns, and a ballot makes a society “civilized”. The tools don’t automatically confer the maturity to use them. Civilization is having the civic sense to use them.

 

Connected to this is that Liberalism is ultimately noble but naive. The same way those two rights (speech and arms) cancel each other out without a culturally-socially cohesive foundation - liberalism and democracy cancel each other without a similar foundation. You may be able to have liberalism and democracy separately but not together without a strong foundation - and that foundation can't simply be papered over with more constitutional ''rights, laws and freedoms''.

Liberalism multiplies the differences that democracy can only manage if differences are limited. The more plural the society, the less coherent the demos. The less coherent the demos, the less functional the democracy. As liberalism creates more diversity and democracy gives political voice to that diversity, each group starts using democratic power to impose their vision on the others. Which creates more conflict. Which liberalism responds to by celebrating even more diversity. Which democracy expresses through even more polarization.

Democracy only works under very narrow conditions: relative equality, cultural cohesion, and some shared belief in progress or prosperity. For a while the UK and US could maintain those conditions because empire guaranteed both wealth and the expectation of more wealth to come ie the social contract. That economic cushion bought them the stability to pretend that democracy was universal and self-sustaining. But once empire and unipolar supremacy fade as they are doing so today - those conditions vanish.

If liberalism is built on the sovereign individual and the sanctity of self-expression, then logically it must extend to groups of individuals - cultures, religions, lifestyles - all treated as equally valid within the same political framework. That’s how liberalism naturally evolves into multiculturalism - even without migrating multiple cultures into the ''demos''. Liberalism generates internal multiculturalism because once you elevate individual freedom and choice as the highest good - people splinter into subcultures, countercultures, ideologies, and identities. It inevitably fragments the cultural fabric.

Belonging is a longing and a need that can't be un-needed - people must identity with something. Liberalism dismembers limited identities of belonging for a larger identity of universal belonging (the noble part) - it tries to transcend nationalist tribal belonging into a internationalist globalist one. But its very hard to scale tribal identity (the naive part) - and in doing so you uproot many people who then backlash at being uprooted.

Now with multiple cultures under one roof, diverging worldviews mean you don’t have one demos but many, all trying to operate under a single democratic shell. It's no longer one people or demos, but multiple peoples attempting to share one political frame work and territory - essentially multiple countries in one. You can have a multi-ethnic society with a mono-culture, but a multi-cultural society that's even mono-ethnic, becomes in-coherent. If America was 100% ethnically homogeneous, you'd still have the same breakdown because the fundamental problem isn't simply racial diversity but cultural fragmentation. These are religious differences dressed up as political ones. Its fundamentally a socio-religious problem trying to be solved at a political level.

Democracy contains the seeds of its own undoing in that if the people or demos ''will'' an authoritarian, and use the vote to elevate them, democracy has faithfully functioned - but only to end itself. That’s why populism is such a dirty word among the liberal elite establishment: it exposes the contradiction and breaks down the worldview underpinned by enlightenment and liberalism. Democracy demands fidelity to the people’s will (the most popular voted in), but the people’s will is not guaranteed to be enlightened, moderate, or liberal. Sometimes it’s angry, fearful, or authoritarian. Sometimes it chooses Caesar. Populism is simultaneously democracy’s purest expression and its greatest danger.

I found this interesting:

''Modern liberalism is what happens when you take classical liberal insights and turn them into a totalizing ideology divorced from any limiting context. Classical liberals wanted freedom FROM oppression. Modern liberals want freedom FROM reality itself - from biology, from scarcity, from human nature, from the basic constraints that make civilization possible.

Classical liberalism was a scalpel designed to remove specific tumors from an otherwise healthy social body. Modern liberalism is chemotherapy that's been running so long it's killing the patient along with the disease.

The original vision? It was actually achievable under certain conditions - homogeneous societies with strong social trust, shared cultural values, and clear external threats that maintained internal solidarity. America in the 18th and 19th centuries actually pulled it off for a while, at least for white Protestant males who owned property.''

Edited by zazen

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4 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

If you want to take someone out, you can do it without this level of publicity. 

It is actually VERY easy to access and arrange this, if you even have a modicum of search skill.

This, to me, was done as a statement.

The whole thing is theatrical (in a horrible way). 

Zero impact (comparatively) if he was taken out at home etc.

 

My gut tells me it was a neo-Nazi / rabid QAnon groyper who wanted to make a statement against being the “wrong” kind of right-winger. 

I could be wrong but when he gets captured we’ll get more to the story.

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I feel really bad for Charlie now, actually. Nowhere close to being a saint but he was still a human with a family, a life ahead of him, etc. Perhaps one day he wouldve matured and held a more healthy worldview. 

I hope the killer is found and brought to justice. 

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5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

A hunter can easily make that shot.

He was probably aiming for the head, not the neck.

You can go practice that shot out in the woods for a week and you will perfect it.

The dude who did it was not so pro. He allowed his face on the cameras. He will definitely be caught now.

A pro would have used a much better disguise so his face was fully covered.

This guy didn't even wear a covid face mask. Such an oversight. He could have worn a bigger hat and covid mask and wig. Then he would never be found.

Dude what lib fires a gun like that? 

I wouldn’t be surprised if the guy who got him wasn’t even a lib but one of those anti Jew alt rights or something with some twisted narrative how Kirk is helping Israel. 

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20 hours ago, hundreth said:

Not surprised to see a thread about Charlie Kirk being shot in Chicago, become 50% about Israel / Jews. 

All conspiracies lead to Jerusalem.

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Saying "I don't condone violence, but..." is like saying "I'm not racist, but..."

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Y'know, I've seen some opinion pieces about how Americans shouldn't have watched the video. That we've become too desensitized to violence and have lost our sense of humanity and soul.

I'm of two minds about that. One is, yes, we shouldn't have ever gotten used to this kind of thing. But also, I don't think it's wise to turn a blind eye to the reality that we live in. This is a violent and unhinged country. Look at it, process it, accept it for what it is. Survival dictates getting acclimated to your environment.

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Imagine being 17 years old and tweeting this after the assassination of a head of state

He was poisoned. It wasn't his fault he became a demon. Someone else put this colonizing supremacy inside of him when he was far too young and it set him up for failure and misery 

Image 298.jpeg

Edited by Twentyfirst

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https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/charlie-kirk-shot-utah-death-09-12-25
 

Seems the killer has been caught. Now we just have to wait and see if he was some radical leftist or not, but that seems increasingly unlikely.

All the right-wingers calling for the government to crackdown on leftists are going to look awfully embarrassed if it turns out he killed Charlie for NOT being sexist / racist / antisemtic enough.

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Update: The suspect has been identified as 22 year old Tyler Robinson.

 


أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأشهد أن ليو رسول الله

Translation: I bear witness that there is no God but Allah, and Leo [Gura] is the messenger of Allah.

 

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9 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Update: The suspect has been identified as 22 year old Tyler Robinson.

 

Didn’t preety India have an account named Tyler Robinson😭 thought you joked for a second 

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That's the most generic name ever.

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If he is a alt right groyper that movement is probably done, both the mainstream right and left, as well as the far left have been itching for an excuse to crush them for years. 

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Apparently his father was a cop and he turned him in. Guy sounds like a dumbass, it seems he didn’t even leave the state. Definitely not a trained assassin or something.

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10 minutes ago, Raze said:

Apparently his father was a cop and he turned him in. Guy sounds like a dumbass, it seems he didn’t even leave the state. Definitely not a trained assassin or something.

I know nothing of weapons but the shot seemed so good and accurate to me I wonder how he managed

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