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Dude, you are seriously missing things lol. This will be my last reply to you. This "absolute nothing" that you speak of has to exist for you to get on a forum and talk about it. Anything that comes out of your mouth is some aspect of existence that you are aware of .. whether it is deemed "real" or some fantasy concept in your mind .. in this case "absolute nothingness". Direct experience IS existence, and it includes nothingness and something-ness. There is no distinction.

@Terell Kirby Yes, there is absolutely nothing outside existence, meaning existence or infinity is within nothingness. You’re trying to say nothing is something when it’s not, or confusing it with emptiness.

For non-existence to be spoken of .. it has to first exist. There is absolutely nothing outside of existence .. that includes non-existence AND nothingness. Your awareness knows this through direct experience, that is how you are able to speak of such things in the first place.

@Terell Kirby Nothingness is non existence. And like you said, existence is infinite. So, nothingness isn’t infinite. It can’t be an aspect of something it isn’t. Empty space and existence are within nothingness, but empty space isn’t nothingness. You think I’m talking about empty space, probably because I used the word emptiness at first.

Existence is infinite, and the nothingness you speak of is only one aspect of existence. You wouldn't even be talking about it if this weren't the case.

@Terell Kirby Nothingness isn’t infinite, only a thing can go on and on forever, even if that thing is empty space. You’re confusing infinite space with nothingness.

@Terell Kirby The definition of god isn’t nothingness, the definition of god is ultimate reality. Reality is within nothingness, meaning god is within nothingness, making it deeper.

Not attacking you at all I've seen this over and over and over again in this forum, and I'm seeing the same thing now. Absolute claims being made that get aggressively defended and all that is brought your way is interpreted as an attack. I said it in the beginning, I said it now: these discussions could be open, exploring perspectives together, making points on behalf of the beauty(!!!) of what reality/God/nothingness/whatever is. But people even, and especially, in this corner of the internet always have to make their own claims to be the only true one. That's not mature or integrated enlightenment at all. People were taking 5-MeO and having these insights for years here now. Me included. And all I'm trying is to soften us up a bit, with love and some humor, so we can stop being so adamant about it all and have a loving, non-defensive discussion. I love this forum and I'm willing to infuse it with all the love I can bring up so the overly dramatic seriousness is taken out and we can truly be helpful to each other. Defending is not helpful. Don't take it personally, you don't exist anyway This is not about you, it's about the whole attitude and energy of the forum. It's just not very integrated. I wanna help with that because I see great potential here.

@Breakingthewall Yes, nothingness doesn’t exist. It’s non existence. Like you just explained it’s not a thing. The problem is the beginning you said nothingness cannot exist without existence. It doesn’t exist anyway. You’re trying to make nothingness out to be a thing when it’s not. There’s empty space, and then there’s existence, and that’s al within nothingness.

nothingness without existence does not exist. Imagine that they give you anesthesia and they wake you up half an hour later, or a million years later, and for you not a second has passed. that interval was nonexistence. a nonexistent interval. The nothing you speak of has no space or time, but it exists, otherwise you would not be able to perceive it. go to nothing more times (although it is scary, at least for me), until you see that it is everything, infinity, that is the mystery (some who say they understand, I suppose it is possible)

@peanutspathtotruth And again, its not us saying the same thing but disagreeing. They’re saying 2+2=5 and I’m saying 2+2=4. They’re saying god is nothingness and I’m saying its not, by definition or experience. God is ultimate reality, so it’s a thing. Meaning within nothingness and not the same thing. If nothingness was creating it wouldn’t be nothingness.

@Breakingthewall Like I just explained, if you’re perceiving it then it’s just space. I didn’t say empty existence is nothingness, I just explained empty space isn’t true nothingness. You say total existence, so if you’re talking about something that exists, it’s not nothingness. It’s called the stateless state for a reason. Like I wrote an essay explaining space isn’t nothingness and you just tried to say I said space is nothingness lol

@peanutspathtotruth No, I have to defend my point when someone is misconstruing what I’m saying. My point won’t get across if I don’t. You can’t let someone punch you in the face and not defend yourself. They’re not saying the same thing I am, they’re saying god is nothingness and I’m explaining why by definition that’s not true. I can’t just let someone shut down my point and push their own and just agree.

@WelcometoReality People argue if nothingness created everything or if everything created itself. But there’s no argument that nothingness is creating anything, because that would make it a thing, even if it’s empty space.

Yes but in that realization of nothingness, in which you are not even there, you (not you, the void) still are. It is without any attributes, totally empty. It is a sensation that has made me vomit. If not, it would be as if they gave you propofol, a timeskip. the point is that what I am seeing now, my phone on which I write, my room, are nothingness appearing to be something, but they are just a form in nothingness, that is, nothing creates all this. in fact, it creates all that is infinitely possible by the fact that it is. then it is not nothing, since it is something, you might say. Well, that's what I think, nothing does not exist since it always is, existence. you can perceive an empty existence, which you call nothing, or a total existence, which you call god, but both are the same

@WelcometoReality And empty space isn’t nothingness, so even if empty space was creating everything it still exists and has to be within nothingness. I was wrong to say emptiness instead of nothingness.

@WelcometoReality Well people saying god is nothingness are wrong because that’s simply not the definition. There’s no argument. Nothingness isn’t creating anything because then that would make it a thing. God is god nothingness is nothingness.

@Breakingthewall People tend to think of say, a black hole and say that there’s nothing within it, when really it’s just empty space. Same with cessation. When I say emptiness or nothingness, I mean TRUE nothingness. Maybe I shouldn’t have used the word emptiness, but true nothingness has to be the deepest realization, otherwise it’s something and that’s not it. It’s not even an experience when you truly realize nothingness.

@Breakingthewall Nothingness isn’t infinite or a creator. Nothingness is nonexistent, meaning it’s not even space. Infinite means going on and on forever, nothingness isn’t that, otherwise it would be a thing. Space can go on and on forever, but space isn’t the same thing as nothingness.

@Breakingthewall Again, emptiness is emptiness. God and infinity by definition are a thing. God is what’s creating everything and infinity is the existence that goes on and on that god is creating, by definition. So they’re both a thing, if they exist, meaning they have to be within nothingness. And nothingness is nothingness, it’s not creating anything because then that would make it a thing. Saying nothing is god is changing the definition of nothing. God is EVERYTHING, and anything that exists is within nothingness, meaning god is within nothingness. Even if reality goes on and on forever, it has to be within nothingness.

@BenG It happened during manic episodes. People usually get that with psychedelics or meditation but I guess God wanted something different in my case. ? Yes, it was a big emotional turmoil because I was raised in religious family but always prefered science for the explanation of everything. So I made a full circle but I didn't expect that God would be me. ? I will still need one more episode to directly realise nothingness, for now I only understand it conceptualy. ?

I’ll have to try this OP! I had a similar realization by looking into my own eyes in a mirror, like an inch away from the mirror, on shrooms. All of a sudden, I realized that the person in the mirror was just looking at nothingness—which was me. It was actually incredible shocking to realize I was the ‘void’ that allowed a mirrored image to think I was looking into a mirror ? Like it made me panic for a quick second when the “shift” happened and I wasn’t there. That was the damn truth.

Spiritual factions emphasize either God or nothingness and then they go to war with each other over which aspect is the right one. I'm glad we can keep traditions alive here. ?

I'm willing but maybe not able ha ha. All this talk of arising and passing away, coming from and going to, puts me into the frame of time, space, processes unfolding etc. Duality and thought, in fact. But from the perspective of the timeless and spaceless (which isn't a perspective but I'm calling it that for convenience), there's just a singularity of infinite nothingness. I don't think (but could be wrong), there's a movement from the timeless into time, from nothing into appearance. Can't these be the same already, but it depends on my state of mind how I'm seeing it. It's the mind which moves, not the flag in the wind (to misquote the Zen story lol). Not sure if I've missed your points, this is all hard to articulate and communicate

@Adamq8 Thank you. You said yourself “there is NOTHING outside of god” meaning emptiness haha. But it’s all good now. My point is enlightenment is that nothingness.