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Few quotes from Rudolf Steiner on the topic: "Among the various feelings a man can have as part of his ordinary life is the sheer joy of being alive, of living in a physical body. Hence he feels the lack of physical body as one of his worst deprivations. We can thus understand the terrible destiny and the horrible torments which have to be endured by the unfortunates who end their lives through suicide. When death comes naturally, the three bodies separate relatively easily. Even in apoplexy or any other sudden but natural form of death, the separation of these higher members has in fact been prepared for well in advance, and so they separate easily and the sense of loss of the physical body is only slight. But when the separation is as sudden and violent as it is with the suicide, whose whole organism is still healthy and firmly bound together, then immediately after death he feels the loss of the physical body very keenly and this causes terrible pains. This is a ghastly fate: the suicide feels as though he had been plucked out of himself, and he begins a fearful search for the physical body of which he was so suddenly deprived. Nothing else bears comparison with this." https://rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA095/English/RSPAP1986/19060824p01.html "No man would do this if he could see the significance of his deed; and when once Spiritual Science has really been taken into people's feelings and thoughts, there will be no more suicides. " https://rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA175/English/GC1989/19170220p01.html

The question of suicide is very complicated. In some traditions, there is no taboo around suicide; it is even recommended rather than living without dignity, as with the Japanese who practice seppuku. They opened their stomachs because they believed that this was where the soul was located, in order to leave a way out for the soul. So even in their beliefs, they still wanted to put conditions in place for the afterlife. Today, if we lived like the Japanese of that time, given the way we live without much sense of honor and almost constantly lying we would have to commit seppuku three times a day. I don’t know which of the two philosophies is better: « If life is no longer worth living, then it doesn’t matter. This life is only an illusion anyway. You can take it away at any moment, and you’re not going to live in an undignified way when you can die right away. It’s pointless. » Or the other philosophy: « as long as you breathe, fight. As long as there is a spark of life, fight. » A second question arises from the initial issue of whether suicide leads to hell, and whether the universe truly makes a distinction between dying by suicide and dying by other means. Does the universe even recognize such a difference? For example, imagine someone walking down the street and a murderer comes up behind them and shoots them in the head. Would their consciousness then be sent directly to some kind of paradise? But if the exact same thing happens except that the person is the one holding the gun and pulling the trigger would their consciousness instead be sent to a place of horror? In other words, does the universe really make such a moral distinction based solely on who pulled the trigger? Or even if the difference is not as extreme as heaven versus hell, might there still be some subtler distinction in how these two kinds of deaths are treated? I really don’t know Another concept that seems interesting when thinking about this question is karma. And yes, I realize that I am only working with concepts and beliefs that may seem elegant or plausible but that is really all we have to work with when discussing this topic. No one has ever died and come back to tell us what actually happens, or at least no one that we can truly verify. One elegant concept is karma. I don’t know about you, but at least in my own life or in life in general the idea of karma often seems to work surprisingly well. So why not extend that idea beyond life itself? For example, imagine a case where suicide might appear justified: someone whose body is completely broken. They are not dead, but their body has lost any real vitality, and they live in constant pain. Let’s say this person still has ten years left to live in this broken temple that is their body. Perhaps they are meant to go through those ten years. Perhaps if they endure those ten years and then die naturally, their next reincarnation will be completely “clean,” with good genetics and a healthy body. But if they end their life before those ten years are lived, perhaps their next reincarnation will be in a body with something like diabetes because they still have something they needed to experience that they did not live through in the previous life. Of course, these are only hypothetical ideas meant to illustrate a possibility. But even then, would it truly make such a difference? Living ten years in a broken, suffering body or having diabetes in a future life. Is it really worse to have diabetes in a future life? Is it truly worse to spend ten years in a body filled with suffering? In the end, does any of it really make that much of a difference?

Follow the techniques but dont let them indoctrinate you. Before I even tried kriya I learned what Suffering is. Most people have no fucking idea what Suffering is, and if they had my karma they would commit suicide. im not suggesting you make yourself miserable , im just saying that when I talk about how fast and deeply kriya affected me you should know a bit of my background

Jesus Christ doesn't say a single word about suicide. It was established that suicide is a mortal sin after Saint Augustine; it was then that Christianity became an ideology of absolute terror, since it established eternal hell and original sin. This happens when Christianity ceases to be a marginal religion and becomes an instrument of power. Instruments of power want to have power over their puppets; these puppets cannot decide about their own life and death because their lives do not belong to them, they belong to the power structure.

I was suicidal in a serious way in the past and the only thing that stopped me is precisely the "weighing of options". You are not gonna decide the last moment..you gonna rush into it unconsciously. If you gonna stand there at the edge of a cliff and logic with yourself about potential scenarios of afterlife and the fact that this life at least is known and understood to some degree whereas after death is completely and utterly unknown..then you literally can't do it . Unless it's nonstop chronic pain like a serious injury then if the intensity of the suffering is not more powerful than the fear of the unknown then you won't do it . People think they can suicide because of philosophical reasons and reading people like Emil Cioran or Albert Camus..that's a childish fantasy. I think everyone has the right to die peacefully with assistant suicide which is painless. It's their own right. Then again what we do want is to live in peace ..not die in peace. But sometimes death seems more peaceful than life and sometimes the opposite.

Some time after ego submission when Im laughing off physical death...I dont know how to properly explain it...but basically its like "are ya ready to go?" Like I know I can die right there and move into a world of my own creation without a hitch. Towards the end of every big shroom trip I take there are points where my breathing is drastically slowed to a point where I have not taken a breath for a solid two minutes and Ill get some kind of signal that if I want to...erm..leave, just dont take another breath. No pain, no fear, no angst. If I want to stay, just breathe. In every scenario Im called back because it actually feels more exciting to me to finish off and become the hero of this human story. Like the pay off for staying will be just rewarding as anything else I could dream of and this is always accompanied by a sense of everything being perfect and I am already precisely where I want to be, doing exactly what I want and need to do. Then god pats me on the head and salutes my perseverance, courage and strength. I feel its worth noting that in studies of suicide survivors, bridge jumpers in particular, their immediate first thought after leaping is more or less "I made the wrong decision here". They instantly regret trying to kill themselves while in the act. Here's what I would say - if its just going to be a pity party and add to the misery (which there is already enough of) then find a way to keep going because in some way you would be forsaking the gift and you definitely don't to step into the abyss of eternity with a bitch heart and subservient bitch mentality.

Suicide means you are suffering..nothing could be more obvious. We don't actually want to die..that's not the default of humans .but the equation is :unbearable suffering +zero hope or alternative soultion in sight = Suicide. Yes ..most Eastern religions say if you die by killing yourself you will reincarnate in a lesser life form like an animal or insect.. .and Abrahamic religions say if you kill yourself you will go to hell. I feel like there is some truth to it . If not..then why does it not feel right?

why would reality moralise suicide, thats just societies making people feel guilty

This was a reason Shakespeare's hamlet didn't jump to his death to commit suicide - Wether it is better to endure the pains and injustices of the human condition or risk the unknown of what happens after

Isn’t life and death a duality that collapses? I’m not sure suicide solves anything.

I'm not afraid what happens after since my personal research and spiritual insights point to heavenly realms and unconditional love as the ground of being on the other side - What prevents me from committing suicide is the brain damage and survival worse off if it fails and once you attempt to end the body you can't control the outcome - Also there is the problem of spirit guides or Christ conciosuenss avatars in the astral realms that could possibly dictate what happens to you next and force you back into another life or body or to come back in the broken body you tried to exit but honestly I want to bitch slap the spirit guides and get answers what the fuck is going on

I want out - Like if I'm infinite god intelligence then where is the exit button or do I have to commit suicide - spiritual teachers love to say oh you are awareness of the dream character, you are not the identity being played, but you are the conciosuness making this happen, and they say I am god and yet they do not explain how to wake up from this dream - I want out - Government assisted suicide should be legalzied for all time periods and cultures of human history and civilizations - I hate life.

Depends on how you do it. Most people who suicide do it out of anger or fear or sadness. Well if you have those and take the headset off those emotions compound x 1000000. Then when you put the headset back on there you are in the same state and the world will reflect that. People think that suicide will help them somehow releive their emotional and mental problems. Your emotions are before all your theories linguistical problems. Take the linguistics away and the emotions are still there. Only now you cant stop yourself and think them through. You cant actually kill yourself. People that try are trying to run from something they cant get away from even in death. The headset is there as a vehicle to change your states as God. Once in God mode you cant change your state you are the state.

I’ve noticed that a lot of religions seem to say that if someone dies by suicide something worse happens than if they just die normally. Like in Christianity people talk about going to hell, in Buddhism some people say it can lead to a worse rebirth, etc. or just rebirth Do you think there’s actually some truth behind that? Or do you think religions mainly added those ideas to scare people away from doing it? @Leo Gura just curious about what you and everyone here think about that

See? Here is your poof. But I still recommend getting a life than playing such games in your adulthood. In teenage it is understandable. For me, it helped me go over the hardest period of my life. I suffered from very severe social anxiety due to trauma from bullying. I am happy that I chose WoW over heroin or gambling, or suicide. I basically never met a person who did so much positive change in their life. A person like me should be dead by now or severely crippled mentally. But here I am, stable and strong, thanks to some crutches that helped for some time. 🙂

Fair points. Though I would imagine misandry does have a non-nominal impact on male suicide. But I don't know.

@Ulax Yes, I agree that not every man has more power than every woman. If a NEET man is dehumanized by a rich white woman simply because of his status, then this is class-based hatred. This is why poor people hating rich people is not the same as rich people hating on poor people. There are certainly toxic women, or women with various personality disorders, who can traumatize their male child or partner severely, but they usually treat women the same way. It is hard to tell whether they are harmful because of misandry or simply because they are antisocial, narcissistic, psychopathic, or have other mental health issues. I don't deny that some men may end up committing suicide due to misandry, but how common is it? Maybe they feel romantically rejected, which is not misandry.

@Ulax Men not being allies to women in the fight against systemic misogyny is a relevant point. If they have more power in society and are selfish, then why would feminists, who have less power in society, fight for a minor issue that a more powerful group suffers from that does not even have a significant negative effect on them? If misogyny is like a common disease with a major negative impact on people's lives, then misandry is not a common disease and has little impact. This is why misogyny is a systemic issue while misandry isn't. Just because something exists doesn't mean that it is a systemic issue. Many bad things exist, but not every bad thing is systemic. There are Black people who hate White people, but this is not a systemic issue. White people's lives are not systematically affected by this, they still have their human rights, privileges, and protection by the system. However, while feminists don't directly address misandry, feminists do question the narrow gender roles imposed by patriarchy on both men and women. Masculinity according to patriarchy, is defined not by what it is, but by what it is not: femininity. Men are expected by patriarchy to repress their femininity, emotions, and vulnerability and to adhere to narrow standards of masculinity, which is not sustainable for healthy human beings. Especially when it comes to building healthy relationships, even a healthy relationship with oneself. Men commit suicide not because of a random encounter with a misandrist woman, but because they don't have permission to be whole human beings who express feelings, seek help, and so on. Their shame comes from actually having feelings and a feminine side that doesn't fit patriarchal expectations of men. This is what I believe to be the case. Women are not only angry about the men who directly abused them, but also about the men who silently protect those men, ignore their misbehaviour, don't call them out, justify them, or do nothing. And it doesn't mean that they are angry at every individual male for existing. They are angry at men as a group with shared patterns. Of course there are exceptions, but most men are compliant with the system, either actively or silently, overtly or covertly, even normal and “nice” men. There is the case of Gisèle Pelicot, a French woman who was married to a seemingly normal man for many years. They were close partners. However, he drugged her for years and raped her when she was unconscious. Not only that, he invited men he contacted through the internet to rape her and filmed it. She wasn't aware of it and discovered it through the police investigation. The men who participated in her rape were all sorts of men, often married and with respected jobs, “good men.” She decided to make the trial public to raise awareness. What caused those “good” men to rape an unconscious woman? Systemic dehumanization and objectification of women, and also seeing masculinity as a form of dominance over the feminine, “feeling like a man” as they were socialized to view masculinity. Even the men who were just contacted by her husband and didn't end up going and raping her, did nothing about it. Didn't call to the police or something.

But I thought solipsism. If solipsism then no. Where attention goes, energy flows. These things I focus on in my consciousness are the truths that I create. Yes if you can watch this and detach your identity from it, but can you? Most people can't do that. Suicide and mental health issues are through the roof with law enforcement. The lesson? Don't go into law enforcement.

@Basman I'm not saying to get rid of Neurotypical people. Also I'm not saying their existence is less justified just because it's more simple. In some way, the Zen existence is the most simple yet it is ridiculous to use this as reason to get rid of them or something. In that way, I am not making the same mistake as Ayn Rand who believes that the genius of the world can somehow just survive without the normies. If you truly understand my argument, you will realize that I'm saying that the geniuses might be able to create the finest gourmet meals, which suck at keeping you alive like simple, warmed up meals do. This is what Marxism is. It is precisely the notion that the state should mainly care about its working class since all of existence and economics is rooted in it and not in the lofty ideas of the few geniuses. This is why in in Leninism, it is required for a small group of the elite to commit "class suicide" and dedicate themselves to the needs of the simple people. This is why Marxism is literally the opposite of fascism. Fascist are very open about that fact. There is no fascism without communism. It is a direct response to communism.

Dude suicide and death isn't easy, you could botch it and survive disabled. You're trapped. Many sucide attempts fail. Besides, I don't want to reincarnate. Someone here said you can fully embody god and what dematerialzie? I've found no information how to awaken from this dream of life, if god is truely free and infinite then where is the wake up trigger switch?

Unfortunately are the normal human history. Same than conquer lands. Arabs conquered many lands that are Muslims until now, Turks conquered Anatolia and now it's turkey, Chinese a lot of countries that now are china, and Jews conquered Israel, or re conquerered their ancient land according to them. The only that matters is if you succeed or not. Legitimate happens later, gaining your right to be there, as Israel is doing now. A world where all humans dance and hugs would be better? Sure, but for now it isn't. Maybe when the IA rules and robots work, then we all will commit suicide 😅

Suicide. But, physical suicidal is easy, quick, running away. Surrendering is burning alive. Completely opposite of physical suicide. Not running, jumping into fire, burning till not even ashes left.

Jiang desires so hardly the fall of US that he really believes the worst scenario possible, but that would be absolute political suicide for Iran, handing Israel the key to legitimacy in the Gulf. The fanaticism of Muslim regimes is always overestimated, when they are usually corrupt regimes that only seek to perpetuate themselves in power, like any other dictatorship. Power is power, it's equal for everyone. Have they filled the Strait of Hormuz with mines in revenge for the assassination of the Ayatollah? Why haven't they destroyed any desalination plants yet? What are they waiting for? I think that anyone in Iran who ask himself: what is the better option in all senses now? Would answer: change. Because the other options are catastrophic

And that's precisely the point. The house is burning, Death is next moment. The fool thinks Death is far away, but is always next moment. If this doesnt compel one to seek and notice the urgency of it, then I dont know what will. People at large doesnt comtemplate Death, they are too casual about it, and thats why most are not wise people. Believe it or not, I dont, otherwise I wouldnt have found actualized.org. But language is limited, I have to express the larger point somehow. And I did consider suicide, its foolish for a variety of reasons. No problem, its was enjoyable indeed.