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Just my opinion, these are all concepts to me as I'm not enlightened and have no authority to present this as truth. Disclaimer over! According to buddhism, once you attain nirvana there is no more reincarnation or karma. So you are actually correct, that is a contradiction, because reincarnation is the form we take, once you realize you aren't the form, it isn't that there is no reason to incarnate, you just aren't that, you aren't the form, the form appears to you, but is not you. Once you realize who you are, if "you" (ego) goes away, and there the true you stays, you know who you are, eternal, limitless, timeless. The cycle of birth and death is over, karma is over, if you realize you are what everything arises too, it's over. I believe form is the conduit for realizing you aren't that. How could nothingness know itself without form? Formlessness needs the form to realize itself, and form needs formlessness to exist. No thing can exist, can stand on it's own, without the space for it to exist in. Tolle has called it space consciousness, or just being more aware of space (formlessness) instead of just form. This is why buddhism uses the phrase "emptiness" a lot and they say the true nature of reality is indeed emptiness. When I started on a path a while back this was morbidly depressing, but I was totally missing the point. You can t have one without the other.

Reincarnation and no self is contradictory if we look from a non dual perspective. On the apparent level it's obvious that reincarnation excist. Animals die and gives food to other animals and life continues

@MarkusSweden There’s like 10,000 sects of Buddhism as well as Christianity. We could find some material to support just about anything we think of with either source. From my experience, there is just one being, so I supposed you could say it reincarnates, but I don’t see it that way, because the environment in which to reincarnate to is illusionary, and no being actually comes and goes / lives and dies. The being, be’s being’s, and everything the beings are experiencing, is actually the Being, appearing as other-than-the Being. If the being’s all realized they were all the one Being, I don’t think the concept of reincarnation would be around, as it usually implies individual souls and a false inherent purpose grounded in a hierarchy of spirit, but “each” is God already. And yet, at the same time, anything is possible, and there are mindfucks, so, who knows.

Because, what is reincarnated when there is no such thing as a self(ego)? Yet these two concepts of "no self" and "reincarnation" are compatible in many spiritual traditions and religions it seems. Buddhism for example. Probably a newbie question that's already discussed a number of times. Sorry for that, but I'm curios.

Future is now. The future stays the same or gets only worse unless fundamental change of pattern takes place in consciousness or our “individual” everyday lives. If we are not aware of thought as a process then these problems of detachment, division, conflict in relationship, being local, national, political, religious, cultural and so on, then things will never get better and will inevitably get worse. Science, religion, political ideas, or any other form of outward imposition will not solve this problem of relationship. Any attempt to bring about order in society through self centered “the me and my security” thinking will only make things worse. It absurd that one would actually think that taking a drug could bring about such order. Such an idea has already disproved itself just amongst the general crowd in this forum. It’s an obvious prepetual mechanical movement of becoming which is a thought induced “self centered” activity that leads only to self deception. And it’s also self evident that taking psychodelics don’t bring about a fundamental transformation in conflict and relationship. People on this forum take them on what seems to be, by reading various posts, a regular basis and this seems to be nothing other than a habitual crutch to experience something different and out of the ordinary daily routine. It’s apperent and so easily observable that the division in ourselves and in our everyday life is projected actually through the communication within this forum. People people constantly arguing to fuel there own self image and claiming absurdities to bring about a sense of respectability and righteousness in opposition to another. So it’s obvious that these drugs are not the answer. As long as this doesn’t change well everything will stay as it is or will only worsen. If we care about our own ambitions, projected attainments, and needs to become psychologically secure, there will be nothing but division, confusion, contradiction, and conflict. So the only way to bring about a change is obviously for us to change our own patterns of thought. Which means understand that very process as the self. There is no other way. Know one else can change you. If we all change oursleves then the society changes. Reincarnation?? When we die others are born. And when they are born others die. In knowing there is no you and I, but that that only takes place in thought we see that you are as much as me as I am you. So this is an obvious fact that when I die I will come back in another life form or another, because life is life. So there are consequences for everything thing that we do now. So this goes along with the idea on reincarnation. What I do or don’t do now determines the outcome in “my” next life. If we continue in this petty, superficial, immature manner of self sentered action or non action, it’s only obvious that are next life as a me, I, or it, will suffer those consequences. So reincarnation in that sense seems totally obvious and not even debatable. So if we see that unless we bring about a revolution in our oursleves then life for any future being will ultimately be a experience of suffering. Question is do we want to do what’s necessary to create a better environment for oursleves/others? Thought is the very reason for this disorder and disfunction in the world. Can we become aware of its process which means can we become aware of the processes of the self?

How reincarnation reconciles with having no one to be reincarnated? Did you have any insights on that during trips?

I am into instrumental psych rock. I like when there is absence of lyrics and no messages, just music and feelings. I like Naxatras they have many eastern music elements in their music. Other similar bands are Samsara Blues experiment, Toundra, Earthless (The guitarist is the reincarnation of Hendrin in his solos...), Oh Hiroshima, God is an Astronaut etc

@alyra Hah, It may be......So if death is an addiction, would reincarnation be the 12 step recovery? Hehe

I'm not gonna joke here, I had several attempts when I felt stuck in life but only two things have stopped me: biological fear and fear of being punished after-life (karma) fear is what will stop us from doing it. and just think about it, what if karma and reincarnation exist and we actually will be unsettled ghosts or in hell or in bad abusive life-situation in next reincarnation if we actually commit suicide! really contemplate that. that's no woowoo staff to prevent people from harming themselves, that can be real deal of how reality works. reality is causal in the end of the day. so think about future. don't try to run from suffering now to have full bowl of suffering afterwards. instead work to change situation now. think about why ancient spiritual traditions considered suicide as the greatest sin? is it just made-up? or is there some knowledge and understanding of the world behind that? truth is you can't claim its bullshit, and you can't claim its not. because we don't know. while if its actually true you will end up in worse place if you do it. you want to suicide because you want to get rid of wounds of your self-image/ego. so instead of suicide, just 'get rid' of ego. there won't be desire for suicide any longer.

Alright, so basically my question is - what is the point of attaining it? And this is a naive question I'm very aware, but let me elaborate a bit before I get the holier than thou flood. As I'm not opposing Enlightenment, rather inquiring about the end-game. And I don't mean this as 'I am now enlightened, therefore the work is done' I simply mean the ultimate end-game. Sure, I can get behind the idea of extensive free will, the understanding of truth/mysticism/reality with clarity, and then some(Sure I'm giving shallow examples to relay my point). However, is it then simply the goal to spread Enlightenment as far as possible after that point? To help others come closer with the truth as well? and I fully understand I'm essentially asking to explain this to me in a 'materialist' paradigm, but bear with me here. Sure, let's say 200+ years down the line we don't eradicate ourselves, the planet doesn't meet a catastrophic end and we even advance quite a bit in our technological advances by then. But suddenly - everyone has attained Enlightenment! What then? - And granted this may be very naive to assume that will happen within that time, or even at all - or more so to even ask this next: But then what? Where do our goals shift at that point? It almost appears as if we need that division, just as non-duality needs duality in a twisted sense. And don't take this the wrong way either, when I look around and see nature - it certainly is magical, and seeing such systems even as minuscule as ant-hills, schools of fish and other large-systems work in unison to the point of all reality working in unison- it's absolutely astounding and inspiring and even leaves me in awe wondering where we would be with that type of unification. But.. Do we simply disappear into the nothingness from whence we came? Do we set then our sights even higher with less destructive standards? Do we just simply exist at that point? I feel that maybe Enlightenment may not be the goal here, and sure I've got money on this being the ego really twisting my perception around on this one. But won't we reach the absolute truth after we're dead anyways - therefore to put everything else aside for the absolute truth seems redundant, no? Or is reality SO cyclic that the only path is a form of 'reincarnation' - meaning that we are simply attempting to hand down these methods of teachings to the next 'us' to reach some form of higher evolutionary state of consciousness and potentially transcend this 'dimension' altogether? I really don't expect a correct answer, nor do I think 99% if not 100% of respondents will even get close - as this is simply just inquiry on the topic, I'm curious as to some of you might perceive it as.

When you are accepting your death, what you are really accepting is some belief of what death is. I have seen a person die and I still have no idea what it is because I have no conscious information about it so there's nothing to accept or reject about it. If you are trying to reject it there's a problem of resistance, if you are trying to accept it there's a problem with beliefs. Thus neither reject it, nor accept it. As for suicide - it's really born out of belief. In India people don't like to commit suicide because they believe in reincarnation and feel that it will solve nothing. In the western world we believe that suicide will solve it all so we like to commit suicide when things get really tough. What if suicide makes it even worse? Get stuck is some hell dimension? LOL! I have considered suicide many times in the past so I can relate. Sometimes life can feel so dark and desperate or maybe you might have a tough mental or physical illness that turns you into a fucking vegetable and you just want to end it. As you realize that you will never reach all of your dreams and hopes the ego starts to suffer immensely, but don't run away from this feeling. Jed McKenna said "Your moments of blackest despair are really your most honest moments, your most lucid moments...". Why do you think that is? Because then you realize that your dreams and hopes are actually irrelevant. In fact they were always irrelevant - stuff born out of your beliefs. Tilopa said: "Investment in samsara is futile; it is the cause of every anxiety. Since worldly involvement is pointless, seek the heart of reality!" The real suicide is waking up, not killing your physical body. The price of waking up is everything. Let it all go - life, death, certainty, uncertainty, beliefs, knowledge, religion, hopes, dreams, fears, doubts, opinions, memories, esteem, aspirations, motivations, expectations, goals, enlightenment, non-enlightenment, meaning, meaninglessness, luck, fate, faith, destiny, identity, normalcy, craziness, fairness, unfairness, confusion, clarity, frustration, strategy, time, space, tactic, plot, cause, effect etc. (fill in the rest with whatever you identify with). See... All of the dream is nothing, it's empty. It doesn't mean anything. Let your beliefs go and with your beliefs you will go as well. Completely surrender. Even the process of surrendering you should surrender. It's not to go somewhere or to become a god. It's to disappear. If you can disappear then why not try it? That's probably the most interesting thing to try period. "Without the past, there would be nothing to think about, let alone someone to think it." - From the TV show Sens8 Tilopa said: "A tree spreads its branches and puts forth leaves, But when its root is cut its foliage withers; So too, when the root of the mind is severed, The branches of the tree of samsara die"

(its first out of 18 parts video on youtube) there are many more on his channel what do you think about Tom Campbell and his theory of everything? its mind-blowing, this dude is hardcore he's a physicist who studied out of body experiences for 30 years or so and visited many alternative realities. he tried to explain reality, esp. quantum mechanics and consciousness using both objective experiments and subjective out-of-body experiences basically these are just some notes from his theory from video: (anyone read his book?what can u add from there?) We live in VR, its just how universe works, as a VR VR is consciousness and its one Everything is non-physical All is one reality but consists from many layers of parallel realities Reality has its objective rules to operate at all, but there is no objective world in traditional terms, any experience is subjective, therefore world is subject to constant change due to differences of individual perception It explains what consciousness has to do with theories of quantum mechanics and relativity (watch video) All is coded information (binary 10101010) Everything you perceive is information that translates to you in forms Information is consciousness Consciousness is one and its everything Its evolving Consciousness is finite and learns itself There are many parallel realities outside our world and he visited many of them through out of body He also visited past and future Past is written in consciousness as a data and it exist as calculated probability Future is calculated probabilities Consciousness operates by free will, making random choices but chooses the better one for less entropy Every single living organism has its own limited free will, coz consciousness is sort of outsourced throughout system but its one Evolution happens by reducing entropy Entropy never will go to zero, but evolution is going towards less entropy Spiritual growth, higher consciousness, love reduce entropy Fear, ego increases it Its never-ending process without clear end. Why? it is just how this VR works The goal of evolution is to always change and reduce chaos or disorder (entropy) Life is about learning and growing, your soul stores data too Everything stored as a data Everything evolves, not only biological organisms but also souls and everything in the parallel realities Good v evil is about reducing entropy vs increasing entropy Reincarnation exists, you will get into new body sometime after death to learn more and enhance evolution further Animals reincarnate too I guess karma or choices of your past life will affect where you gonna reincarnate next (its my speculation from his points) He saw dead people (souls) in parallel realities There are both nice and evil entities flying in the parallel realities (heaven and hell?) There are many alternative realities with physical rules that are similar and not similar to our, in general parallel realities are less restricted in rules You can get into trouble with evil entity in parallel reality during out of body, but it is unlikely, it is usually safe His theory explains everything as he claims, science and religion, evolution, quantum mechanics and relativity theory and consciousness and both 'objective' and 'subjective' staff

Here’s good way for open mind every single perspective on any issue especially on philosophical debates is right in its own way - this is very often the case combine all perspectives together and you will form something closer to universal model of reality of this issue for instance, after-life: heaven hell reincarnation being ghost another dimension of beings void or eternal nothingness combine them all together and u will get something close to how things are but Truth is simply about being in your natural non dual state of being (like all animals) when life is absolute meaning for itself, it’s not about opinions or models

There are enlightened ppl who talk about love, happiness, peace Those who talk about meaning of all these Those who talk about meaninglessness Some talk about being creator in life, embrace your passion, create your own reality Some about just not doing anything and being content, and accepting what is Some care about future of humanity and evolution Some doesn't give a damn and says that nothing ever happened, nothing can be changed Some embraces free will, some determinism. Some says we in control as we more conscious coz we r god, but some says we r manipulated by god 100%. Some embrace reality and existence, and some embrace dream and non existence Some talks about after-life and personal reincarnation, and some rejects that. Some talks about god and that he loves us, some doesn't, or that he just having fun Some says enlightenment is must for all, some says it doesn't matter. Some are like Spira and Shinzen talking love and humanity and that it matters and we choose, and some like Parsons and Mckenna talking it doesn't matter and we are not in control of anything Lets combine ALL views into holistic model of enlightenment and looking at reality post-enlightenment. Because clearly every single point is valid, and there are many ways of looking at this.

I believe when it comes to the point the higher self will take over the ego-self (So to speak) All fear will cease to exist as a more universally connected self takes over Think of it like a powerful dream, when you wake up in the morning, even though the dream felt real and as you were there for a lifetime it will be shortly forgotten in a few hours because you are now in this reality so it wont bother you because you feel more home and alive here and now. In my understanding for reincarnation into a human form is based on the development of the soul/spirit. The more evolved/matured the soul, the less chance you will need a physical body/existence in the next life unless you choose to for greater purposes.

A lot of beliefs about reincarnation. Do you think it will be as another human or something else? My ego - me - doesn't want to forget who I am as a human.

Hi all and happy new year! This is the first time I post on this forum I'd like to highlight an old question that for me - being a hardcore scientist and a beginner meditator - is extremely interesting. Furthermore, I am struck at a point in which I can "smell" something powerful in the Self-Enquiry method, but for the moment I cannot really go into it because of the next-discussed problem in the interpretation of the true nature of external reality. Probably I am not interpreting correctly the self-enquiry method, and hope to find some help here. So, let's talk about the "external reality". I assume that all humang beings have a same nature and can develope certain insights and traits through the same practices. Hence, I'll try to avoid elements that depend on specific cultural and religious beliefs (e.g. reincarnation, afterlife, existence of a Creator versus self-sustaining Universe, etc). According to the belief/opinion and (probably in many cases) experience of teachers belonging to different traditions, the approach to the "absolute truth" (whatever it might be) leads to the deep understanding that "external reality" and the subjective awareness have the same nature. Therefore (and here is the point, as I see no reason to do this conceptual jump) "objective reality is an illusion", as it is the subjective experience of the "I-though" (the mind that produces toughts). As a "corollary", if you want to achieve awakening (meaning here mainly the "complete understanding", and not necessarily the "liberation", which is too much cultural-related), *you should put in question the idea of existence of the outside world and eventually find out that you can release it completely*, in the same manner in which you will release the thoughts. This point sound suspicious to me. But I started going on it more and more while watching some of the Leo's episodes on self-enquiry in which he states that during the practice you should use the thoughts only "to question everything you hold certain about the reality", and stay open-minded. Well, in principle this is exactly what a scientist does. But the difference is that a scientist believes that his senses and subjective experiences are not the only thing that exist and he relies also on logic, mathematical proofs and overall coherence of what he considers "probable" or "very likely". As a scientist I do not think I am closed-minded, I see no conceptual problem in accepting the truthness of concepts that may appear incompatible with the scientific reasoning (e.g. the voidness, the no-self) and I know that the universe of human beings is a subjective one, i.e. we cannot have an ultimate proof that the external universe exists. However, I have seen that Leo has gone from this position to the (classical) one of 'the veil of Maya', i.e. that reality is an illusion (see "brains do not exist"). I am wondering if this is part of the self-Enquiry method. If yes, now I see why I cannot do it. In fact, the autenticity that is often teached in Vipassana leads me to the position that the external universe actually exists, and will exist whatever we think about it and whatever trick we try to play with our mind. I see no point why we should assume such a dogmatic position, despite tons of clues highlighted not only by the individual subjects agreeing upon their experiences, but also by instruments, measurements, mathematic proofs, coherence checking and so on. Instead, I naturally see so clearly how a non-dual picture can be interpreted the other way around: i.e. a) the Objective Universe exists; b) it is the manifestation of Laws that generate and control the phenomena; c) These phenomena are infinite, and there is an infinite hierarchy of processes & phenomena, on top of which (in terms of complexity, and as far as we know up to now) there is the consciousness, i.e. the process of "being an I". In this sense, I am still affirming that "I" and Existence are one, because "I am" and "I" are emerging phenomena arising from the processes (biological and biochemical and molecular, in the specific case of a Homo Sapiens animal) which are among the infinite manifestations of the One (or of the Reality, or of the Source, or whatever you want to call it). Thus, I am not "in essence" different from another animal, or from a rock, or from an atom, or even from the space and time itself (according to the quantum loop theory, space and time are also manifestations of processes and not an ultimate element of reality). I - as consciousness - will cease to exist because it is in the nature of the processes to reorganize: the specific information pattern from which the "I" arise will be shuffled, the electrons and protons (which are eternal) of my body will arrange in another pattern and the eternal existence will continue, as has continued for billions of years even in absence of any information pattern that could create self-awareness. This position seems to be pretty compatible with a nondualism, and - most important for actual practice - I really do not understand why a meditator who got an insight of "being one with the Everything" should put into question the existence of reality, universe, brains and so on, instead of interpreting it by saying that the external universe IS the reality, that phenomena exists, including the "I" process/phenomenon which has the universe-existence-quality. So the Universe is not the illusion, while "I" am the illusion, if I think that "I" is different from any other phenomenon. Anyone wishes to express his point? It would me help me a lot. And, in pratcie, do you think there a fundamental incompatibility between a scientific mind and self-enquiry practice / non-dual advaita paths? For those who arrived here: sorry for my english. This thing has become longer than I thought...

@Shanmugam interesting book, although he discusses reincarnation a lot there, he seems to merely disbelieve it instead of dispassionate analysis of buddhism. I wonder what's your stance on reincarnation

Whenever you gonna make video on evolution, you might look up a theory based on actual research suggesting that reincarnation might be a tool created for evolutionary purposes. he basically says that reincarnation of soul or karma was evolved as a tool for quicker learning. soul accumulates experience so it can utilize it in next life.

Well, I wouldn't say it's a matter of "believe" in it or not. If a person experiences it, then it's not a belief. I heard from someone on this forum saying that if you kill an enlightened person, it's a billion years in hell (phenomenon). That's the karma of that person. Because the person prevented the enlightened person from doing his job on earth (phenomenon). Then, when the person becomes reborn onto earth (phenomenon), it will feel like heaven (phenomenon) to him. So, he feels blessed and wants to contribute to the world. You have to wonder why books like Dante's Inferno is written. Is it written for no reason? Probably not. Also, different religions point to things in common. Karma, reincarnation, heaven, hell, etc., are both in Christianity and Buddhism. *** For me, the answer is yes. Because why would different religions even mention it if it doesn’t exist? Ppl do experience it and write about it. (I'm talking about different phenomena, including our earth. I'm not talking about God = no-self = no 'you' = nothingness / everythingness)

Me too, for now I can't imagine nor know if reincarnation is true,. But try to think of it.. our DNA will be passed in our children.. our body will be passed in our children... all aspects because of our DNA or genes... so we are the consciousness, the formless and life.. so maybe that's reincarnation goes?? I don't know? If you think if it what are we? We are not the body.. we are he true self... so true self is one in all of us, we are one.. so the form becomes different., maybe memories will be gone and we will become someone because of passing genes and since we are not the body and mind same consciousness but different form and characteristics

See, that sounds too speculative to me. Why can’t we admit we don’t know what happens fully? The Mind is addicted to knowing, and that’s why we neurotically cling to all these silly beliefs. All we can do is be. Whatever the Mind thinks is true is most probably false. Thinking everything is cyclical is just a belief. Don’t cling too hard to that. That’s a trap. Reincarnation is a piece of culture, an article of clothing, laid-up on top of awareness. It’s like putting tennis shoes on and then thinking the shoes are part of the feet. No — tennis shoes are a part of culture. Beliefs like reincarnation are like that too. Ideas are in the air, they have a history.

I don’t believe in reincarnation as of now. Not in the sense that it is commonly believed. When I had my Ego-death experience, I was taken out of here and then came back, but that wasn’t really a reincarnation. When I was in hyperspace I was just Being. Whatever carnation there was dissipating like a breaking television set flickering in and out, although it didn’t happen fully. It happened like 90% — enough for me to see the being behind the purported carnation. But to believe in some cyclical kind of reincarnation is probably just the Mind trying to impress itself or to calm itself down. We don’t know! All we know is what we have experienced. You gotta watch out for the insecure Mind which has a powerful need to know. You gotta release that. Awareness in the Now is all you have. What doesn’t change is being. All the content is in flux. That’s what that experience taught me. Believing in reincarnation is clinging too hard to the experience. Being/awareness never ceases! Reincarnation sounds like a trap to me. Nothing ever dies! It’s only when you cling to experience that the Mind conceives of death. Death is being too beholden to the content of awareness rather than awareness itself. Awareness itself never dies, although the content is always changing. The Mind pretends that the content is what is real. No, awareness/Being is what is real. That’s a sneaky trap that the Mind plays on us. But it seems so real! Yeah? — that’s where psychedelics can really help you see this trap fully.

@Joseph Maynor when you think about all the stuff he talks about the reincarnation comes as the ramifications of it but not directly he's never mentioned it.

It’s the first time it’s had the reincarnation flavor that I can recall.