Search the Community

When you do enough research on it, reincarnation becomes almost undeniable

is reincarnation real?

Sadhguru said that karma is our attachments to memories, even cellular memories, he said. That fits with my idea of all the past existing in the now and even if that doesn't allow actual reincarnation the ego in my view is a huge attachment to memories produced through the global ego, not just in our lifetime, but epigenetically, genetically, socially through our whole ancestor lineage and back even further. The Dalai Lama said that there is reincarnation, but that it's not personal. That matches my view of a single now. And getting rid of karma is the same I think as what Jesus said that we must lose our life in order to find our life in Christ. ALL spiritual traditions talk about getting rid of the ego it seems. Here is Vernon Howard talking about the same thing:

The global ego still dominates the world. Just look at the internet, both in news and in social media. Even spiritual teachers it seems to me are still in the grip of the ego when they give the impression of how very precious they think their own personal past is and at the same time they have a firm belief in inevitable aging and death. It must drive them mad inside! To cling to one's personal past as something immensely valuable and at the same time believing that they will die and many of them talk about reincarnation, which means a wiping out of their personal past from their experience! A total inner conflict and inconsistent psychological state. As I see it the past is real, including our personal past, yet it's only timeless information coming into existence now, not in some actual past. So the ego puts way too much emphasis on memories, especially personal memories and identification with its own isolated past. At the same time the ego is scared shitless of its own death. So the thing the ego clings to with frantic fervor is the same thing the ego believes it inevitably will lose. Can one get anymore insane than that? The mad ego situation causes tensions in the body and mind that slowly strangle the body to death through aging. So my take on it is that the ego tensions need to dissolve, such as through mindfulness practice and inner body awareness.

@Shaun Quite recently, I've started to get a deeper glimpse at deep rooted demons/patterns in my psyche. I'll be meditating, and my mind will keep doing this repetitive behaviour over and over again and it feels like it can't be stopped. And it only ever can stop if you're fine with it not stopping. Which is hard. But the emotions you feel, your level of suffering, I feel it really is something that "you" are doing and generating in the sense that its your mind. You just cant get your own mind to stop. Honestly, I don't think purification of the self could be summed up better than in this quote When you're hot, touch the furnace. When you're cold, submerge yourself in ice. Become one with it. Only by diving into the heat can you escape the heat. [I'm speaking metaphorically here, don't literally touch a furnace. And if its not obvious cold and heat are metaphors which generalise to all forms of pain and suffering] And if you decide to continue engaging with sources of information regarding spirituality and non-duality be careful. In my view, Leo himself and people on this forum say too much about non-duality and conceptualise it too much. Reincarnation, God this, God that; forget the word God. Forget and unlearn everything. Beyond instructions and tips on how to open yourself, all other theories are garbage in their essence.

Rilles, The following scripture from the Holy Bible may help you to make up your own mind with regard to whether reincarnation is true or not: Hebrews, chapter 9, verses 27 & 28 New King James Version And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. It's also worth noting that there isn't any convincing hard evidence for reincarnation, only the claims of certain individuals that haven't been backed up by reliable eye-witness accounts. At the very least, an attitude of healthy skepticism is a good position to take on the subject. Happy searching.... Andrea

Thanks, I'm honestly just trying to rationalize reincarnation, spirit guides, angels, gods, and whatnot. I know i can never know for sure, but a hierarchy of (embodied) consciousness easily explains it. There is so much emphasis in this work on what is totality, and I think we are missing all the juicy bits available to us

Let me ask you this: how is it possible to not experience anything? Do you picture a black screen without sounds, smell, taste, etc? Realize that this picture is imagination and it is still an experience. Real death is like going to sleep, waking up and not remembering your dream. When you sleep, do you lie down 8 hours in blackness? Are you telling yourself that you 'had' a dream and you 'forgot' it? No, there is no discontinuity between night and day. The dream you had and ruminate is happening in the morning. You are constantly dying to your thoughts, to your experience, every nanosecond. You don't remember what you thought 5 minutes ago. You don't know what your next thought will be. Reincarnation is not a bodily life-death thing because 'your' body is not separate from the world. Reincarnation is the present moment.

There is no such thing as a Non-dual perspective. All perspectives are relative. And that's what this one here, the relative point of view (illusion) was pointing to in that on the absolute level reincarnation is not real for no thing is real. The real, aka God has no relatives. He's an only child metaphysically speaking. Which ever way this point is being pointed to is different that's all, ultimately it's all the same difference. Nothing I say / speak of is Absolute. There is a feeling and a knowing. An inescapable falling away of untruth. If you think you know it then you don't. When you know it, you do. And when you do know it, no one can take it away from you.

Nothing I say (know) is absolute. Everything I say (know) is relative. But from the absolute boundless inextinguishable Source level there is no liberation or reincarnation.

@Umar_uk indeed that is from the non-dual perspective. From a dualistic perspective you as God will explore yourself as every possibility. That is what is meant here by Reincarnation. It's not about what particular form that possiblity manifests itself as. You/God are the awareness behind the illusion of all eyes. "Reincarnation" is the word pointing to infinite possibilities within consciousness.

There is no reincarnation, how could there be? Who is there to reincarnate? There are no persons, there is no birth or death, there is ultimately nothing except Manifestation/Awareness.No 'thing' can leave or come into Awareness because Awareness is all there is, and it is not a thing. ''Things'' are experiences of Awareness aware of experiences. The only existence is Awareness. A person is itself Awareness. There is not a person aware of itself as a person nor is there disembodied invisible consciousness aware of person as person, there is only the experience ''person''

@Nahm Is that what you meant by your note that you wrote for yourself? "There's no reincarnation"

The understanding of reincarnation, or even of carnation, is in actuality itself you. The understanding is no more a product of an understander, than consciousness a product of a brain. There is not that which understands, and that which is understood. There is not one which incarnates, and reincarnates - there is nonduality, actuality, and it is only you. The inescapable fact, is the catalyst of the very thought “reincarnation”. It is Self evident. The conceptualized self survives via self reference , past reference, and future reference. The gospel Is, and there are none of these. Concept survives only in the mind of man, while man is, in actuality, only Mind. Who can it be said to “I reincarnate”? Who says this? Often the first step away is “soul”, the second “reincarnation”, an odd blasphemy of Understanding. A reservation for the understander, a table for one, at which no one is ever sitting. A thought about self, is itself, the self - not, in actuality, some thing, about some self. ALL is Well, so too are you, the misunderstanding, so too are you, every thought.

The question of reincarnation becomes meaningless once you realize that there is no time. Everything is, will be, and always has been you.

Maybe reincarcation is an intermidiatery hoax, are you open to that? The import of liberation or enlightenment is to realize the absolute. And from absolute, anything other than absolute is a myth or non existent. Do you ever wonder, how come the excellent sages of the past in all tradition perfectly expressed and mapped out the knowledge of the Absolute. THE ABSOLUTE. About this absolute, almost all of them say the same thing. But when it comes to cosmology, reincarnations, karma and all the intermidiatery stories; every tradition has it's own pet theory. Why is there such inconsistency? They've perfectly mapped out the absolute but totally impotent when it comes to relative cosmology according to each other. Why is it the case? Could it be that this whole relative cosmology is a hoax? Could it be that they are only for mere intellectual consumption, or maybe at best a working hypothesis for unenlightened folks to inquire further about Reality? Another interesting thing is all these creation theories, states of universe, soul, reincarnation etc. Its not the liberated who is bothered or doubtful about them. Only unenlightened are so bothered and caught up with them. So the bottomline is, dont try to prove Maya. It is the principle of impossibility. You'll never succeed proving and establishing the unreal. Rather, investigate Maya and discover it to be non-existent in the first place. You can the never prove the snake in the rope. Rather, investigate the delusion properly and discover that the snake was never there. In other words, first find out the soul(self inquiry). If you succeed, you wont have to be bothered by neither soul nor reincarnation. Note: its a general comment. Pls dont take the 'you's personally and come back to bite my ass ?

Reincarnation / rebirth is a hot topic for me. It's interesting because I've had a number of awakenings but none of them seemed to settle an answer to reincarnation. In researching about it, I haven't yet come across any evidence that was totally convincing. Next I'm looking into people who claim they have memories of past lives and people who have had NDEs.

I think the question you really want to ask is not if Reincarnation is real, because everyone will say that you are God and all that jazz and so you will manifest forever as god. But I see how much everyone in this forum is explaining this subject in a way that is most of times too simplistic and almost Naïve. Just open yourself a serious book about Occultism (the science, not the hocus pocus) and analize for yourself how complex it is. Just because the true nature is formless, doesn't mean that the rest It's fake and that your conceptual self is worthless... Your conceptual Self contributes for next life conditions.

@How to be wise yes some of the deepest realizations will reveal to you that it can't be denied. For example the realization of Oneness. Full consciousness of non-duality. All forms are God or consciousness - or you - exploring yourself from different perspectives. Also that you are the formless. You are Being or pure potential. You as pure potential will play out as every possibility that could ever possibly be. You are yourself through yourself as there is no where else to go. I know this has been said multiple times here already but when you become conscious of all of this then reincarnation can no longer be denied.

@How to be wise You should not verify that reincarnation is real. Instead, you should verify if reincarnation is real. Beware of subtle words that may introduce bias in your inquiry process. There's only one way. Become aware of what you are. What dies? What is born? How come does Reality come to be? This may take decades, depending on your thirst.

Is there some way I can directly verify this? Is there an enlightenment experience where you become conscious of reincarnation? Otherwise, surely this is just another belief.

Alright, Day 2: As I said I will write weekly ideally daily, yet that won't happen. Since this is not something I strive for. This will be another outlet. Yet, once a week is a good number to go for. I noticed since I used an App to block sites such as Actualized.Org, Facebook and other social media sites. I use my phone a lot. Also, I pretty much only visit Actualized.org sometimes I ask myself if I've become to centric around personal development. Especially, the theory part and being distracted by theory. Actions I took today: I studied approx for 4h only, which surprises me without classes. I did 3 study session each 45min for a project in Java and two study session for another project. I had only one class today. Yet, I slept really long since I am having setbacks when going back and forth between going home on weekends occasionally waking up in the morning. The guys above me are lunatics in the dorm 10-6 people in a single appartment and the guy lives with his girlfriend apparently. Last time I called the cops and informed myself about my rights since I am not dealing with their horseshit/bullshit/shit. I also, saw this as an opportunity to exercise assertiveness. Since according to the law I have to first talk with the person about it or talk with the landlord which I did both. I am so happy that this hysterical asshole who comes by is gone because I called the cops at 3 am, I'll do it again gladly. It is not okay to deprive others of sleep, because of noises. This already shows me that I am still materialistic I want to live in a house again, an apartment is quite annoying, there is just more silence. Sure this is relative, yet living so close with "strangers" is odd, maybe that is the reason many Germans live in houses regardless where they are at. The class today was okay, we learned more stuff about PHP and Web-based programming. I dislike the topic a lot though, yet I am also interested since it would provide myself a platform where I could offer something. Yet, there are so many tools and programming ? languages ? which create templates such as typo 3 and such IIRC. I am also quite hyped to meet my favorite prof ideally next week and getting a key to his "research" laboratory which is just a room full with android based stuff and health and fitness related technologies. For instance, Nvidia shield and programming that stuff, I mean he is self-thought and has a degree in arts and marketing, still he speaks 5 languages, he was in the hospital last week. Anything else that was insightful or that I wanted to post today? I wanted to post my survival list and I am thankful that Leo framed it that way, I always thought of it as living not survival. I also wanted to read the post about samskaras, yet I am missing my bedtime. So here I go with the list. Currently, I feel only the competent survive the rest is thrown away Why have/do certain things persits and not others ? (Survival Video Leo) To maintain for instance, skills, relationships, family, systems of surving (look at self-help) Balance ressources Stopping overconsumption Insights Breaking barries, poltical, cultural ( if nothing would persist there would be nothing to break) Decision making, choosing the correct path Trusting intuition, heart self, gut feelings Abillty to persits through life circumstances Meeting emotional needs in hard times Able to follow through with plans and goals, visions. Not giving up, or making the right call and quit Asking for competent advice Dismissing trolls,negativity,hater, toxic stuff Strong bonds (Manipulation) (Scheming) (Lying) (Playing victim) (Playing innocent) (Acting naive) (Domination) Being Assertive Proactive Differntiating from what is important and urgent and what is not important and not urgent Knowing what one wants Accepting responsiblity Dealing with ones lower self Abillity to compete Abillity to produce results Abillity to study for long times Abillity manage projects/situations/people Taking breaks Maintaing and working on relationships Making neccessary phone calls Planning neccessary dates, events, family activities, down-time Knowing the how to's and why's and hows. Questioning asking Just do it Cutting off the right people Mentors Teachers Guides Books Abillity to deal with self-deception Controlling impuslive behaviours Understanding emotions Being emotionally unreactive The opposite of survival is? Decadence Overly self-critical Not seeing survival as a game Not seeing survival as a necessity Not improving ones chance to survive Not investing in oneself Sticking with addictions Not breaking bad habits Not cultivating positive habits Being unaware Eating shitty food Complacency Projection Hatred ( breeds desire to kill ? ) Having and keeping enemies Wasting time Not investing time in the things one wants Negative self-talk Heavy Drugs Overconsumption of entertainment Ideology ( in the name of and in the name against survival) Dogma Illness Accidents Feeding fears Creating negative self-fulfilling prophecies Shitty food Shitty habits Shitty water Shitty sleep Shitty thinking Not building skills Constant overstimulation tv, sex, masturbation, video games, movies, food, soda Staying in contact with complacent people, hateful, spiteful, aggressive, ignorant etc. Not building financial independence Building a life where one needs to struggle to survive Not taking opportunity and chances Always avoiding risks Being unpolite Bein overly polite Sucking on drama/latching onto Feeding of your parents without trying to make/create smth. Carrer, vision, etc. Not becoming independent Overcoming dependencies Becoming interdependent Myopia Sticking to one's rigid identity Not realizing god Not realizing true self, no self Not accessing transcending needs (if they exist) Being passive-aggresive Limiting beliefs Neglecting performance Meditation Yoga Accessing state-stages Accessing subtle,causal,non-dual realams Cleaning chakras (Cultivating a mind-body relationship) Not informing oneself about post survival stuff Accepting reincarnation theories (nirvana/samsara) Accepting the content of dreams Considering sidhis Pursuing enlightenment Neglecting enlightenment Jhanas or states of high concentration/forms of absorptions IIRC Psychedelics Rituals self-destruction self-sabotaging What would be characteristics of modern day survival? Who survive somethings and not others? Industriouness Cutting of distractions Autodidact Emotional Mastery Mindful Skillful Entrepreneurial (knows how to earn money) Skill-based Networking / Relationships Getting rid of toxic humans and relationships Planning Vision Cooking Book Smarts Psychology, Programming, Cooking, Spirituality, Biology/Nutrition, Management, Finance, Trading, Raising a family/child Social Skills Charisma knowing how to sell him or her self. Destroying negative habits Forming positive habits Meditation Reducing Stress Exercise Clothes (as superficial as this is) Speech Family (unfortunately true) Positive thinking Generating positivity Generosity Competence Language skills (at least English) Nurturing friendships Financial Independence (Cryptocurrencies) Offering a product or service (coaching, consulting, a book, an app, a website, offering skills) Abiding to principles Discipline Strategic intent Hobbies which fulfill Maslow pyramid getting recognition and self-esteem, potential partners, relationships, sex, emotional security, creative outlet, Awareness Uniqueness(Gifts, talents, predispositions) Basic survival needs Food (right kinds of foods) Water (right kind of water) Shelter (right kind of environment) Political Awareness Education Country (State) Religion Hormones (?) Breathing (considering pollution) Quality air Sunlight exposure Visiting doctors, dentists other rapists. Inner Game Positive self-talk Energy management Managing subtle addictions coffee, sugar, ravenousness, Attitude How to approaches Asking questions Finding competent people Dealing with toxic people Life experience ( travel, age, country, religion, family, state, language, culture, projects, talents, hobbies, gifts) Company Department Housing, Apartment, flat Predispositions, illnesses, trauma, mental illness, Friendships (Travelling for modern day survival) Sleep 7-8h Constant learning Virtues Group/friends/company with similar virtues (Enlightenment for trans-post-integral-post-survival or meta survival) Persistence Endurance Ability to deal with hardships Knowing how to deal with depression Things I did not finish from the notes I have taken. Survival can be fun! There is nothing just or fair about it is just survival Model is wrong: Survival at the micro level -> planning of planning -> adding of adding -> sleeping of sleeping -> routine before bed -> planning the whole week and checking in or planning each day -> keeping options open -> throwing in my two cents -> using the actualized.org forum Check how it adds your survival: Also, check that it is important to your survival. What is unique to your self-image What is that ghost Drama is survival in action If I want to relieve from that become a master of understanding survival Survival is suffering To stall out the clock Unique demands of your ghost: Who does it want? What threatens it Who does it want to be? Observe your self-surviving Macro survival strategies -> weekly planning Intellectual worldviews and ideas I am attached to What is survival of survival ? -> The process of survival ? What is my life is not survival? I can't really address every point otherwise I'd be spending an hour thinking about this minimum. Yet, I saw a guy yesterday in the cafeteria wearing a shirt with the nike logo upside down saying I can't do this. And it looked like a sarcastic smile or some sort of mustache that is sarcastic and it reminded me that humor definitely is fun! I truly miss extroverted people who can help me get out of my shell otherwise I am stuck with a constant conception of the concept of planning. I also looked into master programs today, and I was surprised that I still have a lot of options open. Also, I did not find much about the thing I want to dive deeper into. I am not sure if I want to dive into robotics without testing any of it. I took an A.I class on my voluntarily, the math behind how he explained it was not that difficult, yet it took some time to get back into it. Tomorrow I will go there again, even if I said that I would not go last journal entry and I even wrote a mail to him because I asked him for an exercise sheet I did not receive. There was more, yet I would need the necessary time or good questions to come up with it again. Here my resume for today. What I learned today and what I wanted to improve + changes. Do another 30-day challenge with the whiteboard and stick with that Currently, I want to do more deep work and thought conceptually about it and did some stuff, this is so important as programmer engineer etc. That I want different approaches, I definitely utilize the journalist approach mentioned in the book. Workout tomorrow, this habit is so solid, I am surprised going to the gym or jogging 5 times a week. Vitamin C and Iron are live savers in the morning I still suck with being more extroverted. Now I am gone! The 30 day challenge will be either cold showers, visualizations, or cbt. Since, I can't stick with these currently. There is more. So, another time another entry.

@lmfao it is most likely good to read about state-stages. Spiral dynamics is about value structutes less moral codes, but value codes. Which drive differences which is very similar, but less judgment based and more behaviour based imo. I can't personally distinguish the two very well. For e.g Imagine a shaman being fully enlightend (I did not read the Carlos Castaneda books but he was an antrhopologist being initiated into the modalities of being a shaman) He would still be attached to magical thinking the sun is the holy spirit of the reincarnation of god Z. Live in a tribe that is polyamorous and where multiple women take care of multiple infants, so one women in the tribe cares about 2-3, for e.g, infants till they are adults and can go hunting. Still it is one big family in a tribe sense. Reading about jhanas could help to have an idea of enlightenment experiences or technically, states of absorption independent of "structure" development in the moral or values line. Also, people have a gravity where they are centered according to wilber for instance your gravity can be turqouise and 50% of your responses will come from that stage 33% from a stage higher and one stage lower. Also a person/human/creature/ etc. has one "subset" gravity. Excuse my wording. So, you gravity circles around on stage, yet you draw back heavly from another which is your "go to" substage or the bread and butter substage lol. This is what I read and can recall. Correct me in case there is an error, im open for feedback in general.

@ajasatya right. Awareness is reality. And it's what you are. And awareness is made of nothing. Its formless. So whether formlessness creates the illusion of form thru limitation or remains in a state of formlessness doesn't matter. "Reincarnation" in itself is an illusion. All is One.

Reincarnation is like running on a treadmill, "Yeah You are running... but You getting nowhere"