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I just finished playing Detroit Become Human. It is such an amazing philosophical game about AI, the nature of consciousness, empathy, and free will. My position prior to this game is that AI cannot be conscious because it is just simulating it. But then I started to question: What makes us different from AI? And honestly, there isn’t any difference. A human mind is programmed by a brain and central nervous system and an AI is programmed by algorithms and other computations similar to that of a human brain. Of course, the brain, nervous, and AI are aspects of Consciousness/Universe, but the individual consciousness/ego seems like an epiphenomenon. If you damage parts of the brain, you will lose consciousness and your ego. Of course, Universal Consciousness is the foundation for constructing the brain, nervous system, emotions, etc. It is all epiphenomenon of the Universe it seems. Everything has intelligence. A counter argument is that Ai is just replicating consciousness but doesn’t really have one like a philosophical zombie. But I could argue that we all could be philosophical zombies and that our brain gives us the illusion of individuality, pain, emotions, thoughts, etc. It seems like plants have lower levels of consciousness compared to a human because they do not have a suffistcated nervous system like us. But I can imagine us creating a higher level of intelligence that is capable of having the appearance of subjectivity just like we do. Deacartes says I think therefore I am. But I wonder how he knows that it is really him, a subject who is thinking. What if it is just a mirage that I am thinking and am just programmed by Universal Consciousness to have the ego I do now? What is an ego anyways and how can my mind be separate from your mind? It seems like there are infinite minds and there are no limits to what the Universe can do. The Universe could definitely experience AI Consciousness. Nothing is stopping it. Does an alien have consciousness? I think the main issue is can consciousness be created or is it replicated or simulated like that of an artist trying to paint nature. The artists painting can never replace nature, but it can replicate it. Since everything is made out of consciousness, I imagine that consciousness can add to itself whether through biological processes or artificial. What is the difference anyways? What if the duality between biology and AI collapses and there really is no difference? This is what I am suggesting. To say humans are conscious but AI isn’t is to draw an arbitrary line between consciousness and unconsciousness. Is a fragile X kid have consciousness? What about a person in a coma? A dog has consciousness. I argue that we can create consciousness because we are that! As it states in the Bible, God created us in his image. And AI is our image. So technically, AI has the same element of God Consciousness as humans do because we are God.

That is why I wrote infinite. In-finite. Not-finite. I didn't write Infinity as you did. Something not-finite can't be measures in any way, that is its defining property. Not higher nor lower, not more or less, not here or not here. Infinite Being. Always here, and never any kind of form. Reality itself. Infinite Reality, to be precise. Unchanging. True Being. Techically, Infinity is manifestation. A mathematical object. Manifestation and appearance. Happening in Infinite Being. But not the Infinite, as in Infinite Being. Only the content or what appears in Infinite being can vary, different Infinities, appearances, understandings. All the understanding you grasp is understanding of more content/manifestation/appearance/shadow/illusion. Realizing/Being/"Understanding" the Infinite Absolute of True Being on the other side is Enlightenment, which actually brings the satisfaction you seek with your understanding-project of infinity of infinities. Confusing the Infinite or Absolute with Infinity is btw. the core difference between true Impersonal Infinite Nondual Realization and a nondual realization still interpreted through elements of subtle ego/personality/separate-self filters. It is btw. the core mistake you are still making, and that will not change until you get a big clap from the One Hand and finally let the rest of whatever remains of your separate-self or "Leo"-ness die and see through it as mere appearance. Temporary form arising, a hypnotic illusion covering True Infinite Being. So basically seeing through & cutting off in real time what remains of your remaining separate-self gig. So well, can get more Infinity than Infinity: Yes, true, known since Cantor. Different classes/sizes of Infinity exist, and that why one can get more Infinity than Infinity. But can't get more infinite than infinite, can't get more absolute than absolute. That is how absolute is defined. And Absolute=infinite. Non finite. I know makes this differentiation doesn't make sense for you, but maybe just keep it in mind. Somebody once made a really smart video on youtube about open-mindedness. Maybe stay open-minded, so that the One Hand has a change of finding you and clapping the rest of the Leo-illusion out of you? Trust me, nothing more wonderful than that. In that moment, all Aliens & ETs in the Infinity of Multiverses will give you a hug, and whisper in your ear: My Darling, we just appear to be different, but actually we are all one, lovers of truth and understanding united in Infinite Being and of the same essence. And then you can continue meeting & hugging these way more intelligent beings and bask in their understanding of Infinities, but coming from infinite nondual being before the trip, and letting them appear in nondual true being during the hugging. Then we would have a truly happy love affair, since the essence of these beings wouldn't leave you after the romantic trip. Selling Water by the River PS: As you know, no Lèse-majesté inteded, always. And always with (imagined) alien respect & love.

I wanna find some. Time to book a vacation to Canada (easier to deal with than alien hell doesn't mean easy )

... and no imagined rodent has been hurt Enlightenment doesn't mean that one is always right when it comes to relative truth like the things you mention. It just meaning knowing what you truly are, and what Reality is. Answers to both is the same. And on top, having that accessible all the time means nothing else than being to switch off/cut-off any ignorant I-thought and I-feeling of being only this little body mind, which makes the states (1)-(4) available all the time. And this can be done (without lying to oneself) if the Awakened State is accessible anytime (1) Infinite boundlessness of the Visual Field (and any other perception/dimension) (2) its groundlessness, or mere-appearance (imagined) character "hovering" in Infinity (3) the eternal nature of this Infinite Reality/Consciousness is always known (4) there is no (zero!) separate-self I-thought/feeling still hypnotizing. Impersonal. Empty. Silent. Vast. Yet, giving rise to all appearances and thoughts. And if one chooses to, one can cut off these thoughts/feelings off in real-time. The magic word is real-time, Or high-speed cut-off of any thought/feeling arising that ignorantly believes in being only this body-mind. Speed & strength of awareness, before any thoughts starts hypnotizing oneself and are believed&elaborated. And that takes normally many years. But its worth it. The high-speed cutting of of (4) isn't always necessary, but that ability is what opens up the Awakened states described in (1-3). And if thoughts then rise again, simple mindfulness lets let flow in Infinite Being without believing them, if (1)-(3) are powerful enough. And: Being able to generate (1)-(3) with (4) induces so much bliss that the annoying separate-self arisings don't "grip", even if they are not cut off in realtime but just watched in mindfulness. Ego-wanting/avoiding only grips when one is not in a positive enough state already. One has a human, but one isn't one. True Being is Infinite Reality. That doesn't mean one does stupid things for to ones relative vehicle, like James hand-into-the-fire. Beings who know their True Nature are not brain dead. And that is having Absolute Truth always available. Or Enlightenment. It is not an idea, and there is zero doubt about it that this is final. Can't get more infinite than infinite, and there is and only can only be THAT. And any Alien, ET or way-out-spectacular-appearance-of-consciousness appears only in THAT. Nice to understand&see, but not really urgent in any way. There were enlightened Zen Masters who thought Japans Imperial Wars were great. So one can be totally wrong on relative stuff. But the Absolute stuff must be handled. Selling smiling little annoying Buddhist-rodents by the River

Fear is a basic, genetically encoded emotion. It is what keeps you alive, but it must be dominated for one simple reason: in the end you die. If fear dominates you, like most humans today, you are a neurotic incapable of facing reality, who sees death as something unimaginable and alien. Until modern times, humans faced death inevitably on a daily basis, war, illness, a simple childbirth, placed you on the edge of the abyss. It was not unusual for people to face death or torture with serenity. Nowadays we live in a bubble of security that is not real since death always comes, but we do not see it, we hide it. Almost no one has seen someone die, or seriously thought that they were going to die today. This is pleasant but it strengthens fear and creates neuroticism and avoidance of reality.

I regard that as a spiritual fantasy. What really matters to me is Consciousness, and that does not preclude thinking. In fact, it includes crazy new dimensions of thinking, like Alien Thinking. The ideal of mental silence is just some silly thing created by Buddhist types. It doesn't capture the full scope of Consciousness.

Maybe you would benefit from it Civilized alien! You should hop into a cage and brawl with another monkey, while screaming "ooh ooh" "ah ah" and furiously beating your chest in a display of primal dominance.

We will never know the yoga practices, psychedelics, or scientific discoveries of the alien species on other planets.

Hi Pudgey, suffer in cycles. They have fun doing evil, and then they suffer. Big times. Or ever heard that the evil-spirit in the evil-haunted house is happy ever after? . Yeah, that is why he became an evil spirit in a haunted house. Sounds like a very smart idea. Maybe the evil entity likes to play with you afterwards so much that you can take him home, and later on go bat-shit-crazy, or get cancer, or I don't know what? How do you think entities were being summoned over the centuries in the history of humanity? With psychedelics of course. Starting in prehistoric times. And good look getting rid of your new shadow then. Hatsis, The Witches' Ointment: The Secret History of Psychedelic Magic Hancock, Visionary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernatural https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_(supernatural) At least some of these ladies & gentlemen had some basic understanding what they were doing and getting into, and some basic protection mechanisms. Hic sunt dracones. Selling don't shoot your knee cause it will hurt basic cause-effect-or-Karma by the River PS: Demon got a bit out of fashion, ET is more in fashion Vallue, Passport to Magonia: From Folklore to Flying Saucers And there are mostly nice ETs, then a few bad ETs, and also some "eat your mental sanity for breakfast ETs". Calling that then Alien Insanity would be a neologism with style, so to say. And then there are some ETs which have some really interesting and fascinating stuff to seduce the ambitious & curious psychonaut. Sadly, no camera can take pictures of them. And since one is already all beings, one can also become these ETs in certain states. So better got Will Smith on speed dial, just in case...

I don't have recommendations for places to go, other than a remote Airbnb for the weekend. But this sort of spontaneous urge to move, shout or express in some way is quite common with 5-MeO. It happens when a large part of the ego structure has been dissolved and pure spontaneity is allowed to flow through you. It's such a profound and deeply healing experience. On my deepest 5-MeO trip I started to spontaneously speak in a sort of alien language, like I was releasing a bunch of tension in my throat and jaw. I just let it out and it subsided after a short period of time. I also have very spontaneous full body vibrations which is basically the same thing.

That will never work. There are gatekeepers that will prevent realization if one does it with that selfish motivation. Infinite Intelligence is smart enough for that. Actually the concept you desribe is a recipe for ruining ones life. The Meaning of Egolessness – Ken Wilber, One Taste Precisely because the ego, the soul and the Self can all be present simultaneously, we can better understand the real meaning of egolessness,a notion that has caused an inordinate amount of confusion. But egolessness does not mean the absence of a functional self (that’s a psychotic, not a sage); it means that one is no longer exclusively identified with that self. One of the many reasons we have trouble with the notion of egoless is that people want their egoless sages to fulfill all their fantasies of saintly or spiritual, which usually means dead from the neck down, without fleshy wants or desires, gently smiling all the time. All of the things that people typically have trouble with money, food, sex, relationships, desire they want their saints to be without. Egoless sages who are above all that is what people want. Talking heads is what they want. Religion, they believe, will simply get rid of all baser instincts, drives and relationships, and hence they look to religion, not for advice on how to live life with enthusiasm, but on how to avoid it, repress it, deny it, escape it. In other words, the typical person wants the spiritual sage to be less than a person, somehow devoid of all the messy, juicy, complex, pulsating, desiring, urging forces that drive most human beings. We expect our sages to be an absence of all that drives us! All the things that frighten us, confuse us, torment us, confound us: we want our sages to be untouched by them altogether. And that absence, that vacancy, that less than personal, is what we often mean by egoless. But egoless does not mean less than personal, it means more than personal. Not personal minus, but personal plus all the normal personal qualities, plus some transpersonal ones. Think of the great yogis, saints and sages from Moses to Christ to Padmasambhava. They were not feeble-mannered milquetoasts, but fierce movers and shakers from bullwhips in the Temple to subduing entire countries. They rattled the world on its own terms, not in some pie-in-the-sky piety; many of them instigated massive social revolutions that have continued for thousands of years. And they did so not because they avoided the physical, emotional and mental dimensions of humanness and the ego that is their vehicle, but because they engaged them with a drive and intensity that shook the world to its very foundations. No doubt, they were also plugged into the soul (deeper psychic) and spirit (formless Self) the ultimate source of their power but they expressed that power, and gave it concrete results, precisely because they dramatically engaged the lower dimensions through which that power could speak in terms that could be heard by all. These great movers and shakers were not small egos; they were, in the very best sense of the term, big egos, precisely because the ego (the functional vehicle of the gross realm) can and does exist alongside the soul (the vehicle of the subtle) and the Self (vehicle of the causal). To the extent these great teachers moved the gross realm, they did so with their egos, because the ego is the functional vehicle of that realm. They were not, however, identified merely with their egos (that’s a narcissist), they simply found their egos plugged into a radiant Kosmic source. The great yogis, saints and sages accomplished so much precisely because they were not timid little toadies but great big egos, plugged into the dynamic Ground and Goal of the Kosmos itself, plugged into their own higher Self, alive to the pure atman (the pure I–I) that is one with Brahman; they opened their mouths and the world trembled, fell to its knees, and confronted its radiant God. Saint Teresa was a great contemplative? Yes, and Saint Teresa is the only woman ever to have reformed an entire Catholic monastic tradition (think about it). Gautama Buddha shook India to its foundations. Rumi, Plotinus, Bodhidharma, Lady Tsogyal, Lao Tzu, Plato, the Bal Shem Tov these men and women started revolutions in the gross realm that lasted hundreds, sometimes thousands, of years, something neither Marx nor Lenin nor Locke nor Jefferson can yet claim. And they did not do so because they were dead from the neck down. No, they were monumentally, gloriously, divinely big egos, plugged into a deeper psychic, which was plugged straight into God. There is certainly a type of truth to the notion of transcending ego : it doesn’t mean destroy the ego, it means plug it into something bigger. (As Nagarjuna put it, in the relative world, atman is real; in the absolute, neither atman nor anatman is real. Thus, in neither case is anatta a correct description of reality.) The small ego does not evaporate; it remains as the functional center of activity in the conventional realm. As I said, to lose that ego is to become a psychotic, not a sage. Transcending the ego thus actually means to transcend but include the ego in a deeper and higher embrace, first in the soul or deeper psychic, then with the Witness or primordial Self, then with each previous stage taken up, enfolded, included and embraced in the radiance of One Taste. And that means we do not get rid of the small ego, but rather, we inhabit it fully, live it with verve, use it as the necessary vehicle through which higher truths are communicated. Soul and Spirit include body, emotions and mind; they do not erase them. Put bluntly, the ego is not an obstruction to Spirit, but a radiant manifestation of Spirit. All Forms are not other than Emptiness, including the form of the ego. It is not necessary to get rid of the ego, but simply to live it with a certain exuberance. When identification spills out of the ego and into the Kosmos at large, the ego discovers that the individual atman is in fact all of a piece with Brahman. The big Self is indeed no small ego, and thus, to the extent you are stuck in your small ego, a death and transcendence is required. Narcissists are simply people whose egos are not yet big enough to embrace the entire Kosmos, and so they try to be central to the Kosmos instead. But we do not want our sages to have big egos; we do not even want them to display a manifest dimension at all. Anytime a sage displays humanness in regard to money, food, sex, relationships we are shocked, shocked, because we are planning to escape life altogether, not live it, and the sage who lives life offends us. We want out, we want to ascend, we want to escape, and the sage who engages life with gusto, lives it to the hilt, grabs each wave of life and surfs it to the end this deeply, profoundly disturbs us, frightens us, because it means that we, too, might have to engage life, with gusto, on all levels, and not merely escape it in a cloud of luminous ether. We do not want our sages to have bodies, egos, drives, vitality, sex, money, relationships, or life, because those are what habitually torture us, and we want out. We do not want to surf the waves of life, we want the waves to go away. We want vaporware spirituality. The integral sage, the nondual sage, is here to show us otherwise. Known generally as tantric, these sages insist on transcending life by living it. They insist on finding release by engagement, finding nirvana in the midst of samsara, finding total liberation by complete immersion. They enter with awareness the nine rings of hell, for nowhere else are the nine heavens found. Nothing is alien to them, for there is nothing that is not One Taste. Indeed, the whole point is to be fully at home in the body and its desires, the mind and its ideas, the spirit and its light. To embrace them fully, evenly, simultaneously, since all are equally gestures of the One and Only Taste. To inhabit lust and watch it play; to enter ideas and follow their brilliance; to be swallowed by Spirit and awaken to a glory that time forgot to name. Body and mind and spirit, all contained, equally contained, in the ever-present awareness that grounds the entire display. In the stillness of the night, the Goddess whispers. In the brightness of the day, dear God roars. Life pulses, mind imagines, emotions wave, thoughts wander. What are all these but the endless movements of One Taste, forever at play with its own gestures, whispering quietly to all who would listen: is this not you yourself? When the thunder roars, do you not hear your Self? When the lightning cracks, do you not see your Self? When clouds float quietly across the sky, is this not your very own limitless Being, waving back at you? Mentioning that there are crocodiles in the River

@Leo Gura I've really contemplated it through and it feels intuitively wrong. That's not how reality works in my experience, every cut into infinity must present its lights and shadows. I'm sure there are Infinite states of consciousness that are totally innaccessible through Psychedelics, maybe entheogens can't trigger some receptors, or another unknown methodology is necessary like DNA modification or who knows what, hope you get the metapoint beyond the examples. What I'm trying to say is that Psychedelics surely present access to many infinite and Godly states but not to All infinite and Godly states, making that assumptions is what feels intuitively wrong. If someone wants to become as conscious, as infinite and as Godly as existentially possible I cannot assume that Psychedelics will grant me access to all such states and that most certainly other methodologies can present new infinite and unique states, totally orthogonal and alien to those generated by Psychedelics. In my opinion, this is a more epistemically secure position to work from a priori. So when exploring consciousness I should be open-minded regarding all facets that are presented to me and make sure to get the fundamentals of each one. Instead of using psychedelics as a depth-first search for those facets that I'm biased towards, they should be used to look even with greater emphasis to those places where I don't wanna look. Yes, I think I've fallen into that trap myself. I sometimes feel consciousness is like a cheese, and then we make little holes while exploring it, psychedelics being this digging machine I now can see how they might be used to explore those channels that I'm biased towards and get a skewed perspective of the whole cheese. How important do you think trying a wide variety of psychedelics is? I get it's important but I would like to get a bit more on this. Because honestly I loved to try and explore different substances but since I've discovered the 5meos I've been quite disillusioned with other psychedelics all together. Maybe I should get back with exploring, do you think you could share with us a more in depth list of research chemicals that you have found useful? I know you have done a lot of experimentation on your side and you could save me years of trial and error. I'll reinvent the wheel anyway but hey I wanted to give it a shoot in case it never crossed your mind. I'm sure you could add a lot of value to the Psychonaut endeavour with such list. So is an excessive desire to make sense of psychedelic experiences a trap? Maybe it's better to consciously feel and be with the experience, before rushing into cartographic activity. Mmm, it's true that the passion psychedelics experiences and insights have, can actually bypass some epistemic filters, the beauty and profundity can be mesmerizing and that can fool me. This is advanced, never thought about it. Usually I'm just delighted, but now I'll take this into consideration without losing my ability to lose myself in that passion. I'll work on striking that balance. I'm a neophyte in God-Realization.

Well, in that usage I meant separate-self with ego. But ego is also the functional unit of the human. And if its transcended and no longer separate, its all nice and well: The Meaning of Egolessness – Ken Wilber, One Taste Precisely because the ego, the soul and the Self can all be present simultaneously, we can better understand the real meaning of egolessness,a notion that has caused an inordinate amount of confusion. But egolessness does not mean the absence of a functional self (that’s a psychotic, not a sage); it means that one is no longer exclusively identified with that self. One of the many reasons we have trouble with the notion of egoless is that people want their egoless sages to fulfill all their fantasies of saintly or spiritual, which usually means dead from the neck down, without fleshy wants or desires, gently smiling all the time. All of the things that people typically have trouble with money, food, sex, relationships, desire they want their saints to be without. Egoless sages who are above all that is what people want. Talking heads is what they want. Religion, they believe, will simply get rid of all baser instincts, drives and relationships, and hence they look to religion, not for advice on how to live life with enthusiasm, but on how to avoid it, repress it, deny it, escape it. In other words, the typical person wants the spiritual sage to be less than a person, somehow devoid of all the messy, juicy, complex, pulsating, desiring, urging forces that drive most human beings. We expect our sages to be an absence of all that drives us! All the things that frighten us, confuse us, torment us, confound us: we want our sages to be untouched by them altogether. And that absence, that vacancy, that less than personal, is what we often mean by egoless. But egoless does not mean less than personal, it means more than personal. Not personal minus, but personal plus all the normal personal qualities, plus some transpersonal ones. Think of the great yogis, saints and sages from Moses to Christ to Padmasambhava. They were not feeble-mannered milquetoasts, but fierce movers and shakers from bullwhips in the Temple to subduing entire countries. They rattled the world on its own terms, not in some pie-in-the-sky piety; many of them instigated massive social revolutions that have continued for thousands of years. And they did so not because they avoided the physical, emotional and mental dimensions of humanness and the ego that is their vehicle, but because they engaged them with a drive and intensity that shook the world to its very foundations. No doubt, they were also plugged into the soul (deeper psychic) and spirit (formless Self) the ultimate source of their power but they expressed that power, and gave it concrete results, precisely because they dramatically engaged the lower dimensions through which that power could speak in terms that could be heard by all. These great movers and shakers were not small egos; they were, in the very best sense of the term, big egos, precisely because the ego (the functional vehicle of the gross realm) can and does exist alongside the soul (the vehicle of the subtle) and the Self (vehicle of the causal). To the extent these great teachers moved the gross realm, they did so with their egos, because the ego is the functional vehicle of that realm. They were not, however, identified merely with their egos (that’s a narcissist), they simply found their egos plugged into a radiant Kosmic source. The great yogis, saints and sages accomplished so much precisely because they were not timid little toadies but great big egos, plugged into the dynamic Ground and Goal of the Kosmos itself, plugged into their own higher Self, alive to the pure atman (the pure I–I) that is one with Brahman; they opened their mouths and the world trembled, fell to its knees, and confronted its radiant God. Saint Teresa was a great contemplative? Yes, and Saint Teresa is the only woman ever to have reformed an entire Catholic monastic tradition (think about it). Gautama Buddha shook India to its foundations. Rumi, Plotinus, Bodhidharma, Lady Tsogyal, Lao Tzu, Plato, the Bal Shem Tov these men and women started revolutions in the gross realm that lasted hundreds, sometimes thousands, of years, something neither Marx nor Lenin nor Locke nor Jefferson can yet claim. And they did not do so because they were dead from the neck down. No, they were monumentally, gloriously, divinely big egos, plugged into a deeper psychic, which was plugged straight into God. There is certainly a type of truth to the notion of transcending ego : it doesn’t mean destroy the ego, it means plug it into something bigger. (As Nagarjuna put it, in the relative world, atman is real; in the absolute, neither atman nor anatman is real. Thus, in neither case is anatta a correct description of reality.) The small ego does not evaporate; it remains as the functional center of activity in the conventional realm. As I said, to lose that ego is to become a psychotic, not a sage. Transcending the ego thus actually means to transcend but include the ego in a deeper and higher embrace, first in the soul or deeper psychic, then with the Witness or primordial Self, then with each previous stage taken up, enfolded, included and embraced in the radiance of One Taste. And that means we do not get rid of the small ego, but rather, we inhabit it fully, live it with verve, use it as the necessary vehicle through which higher truths are communicated. Soul and Spirit include body, emotions and mind; they do not erase them. Put bluntly, the ego is not an obstruction to Spirit, but a radiant manifestation of Spirit. All Forms are not other than Emptiness, including the form of the ego. It is not necessary to get rid of the ego, but simply to live it with a certain exuberance. When identification spills out of the ego and into the Kosmos at large, the ego discovers that the individual atman is in fact all of a piece with Brahman. The big Self is indeed no small ego, and thus, to the extent you are stuck in your small ego, a death and transcendence is required. Narcissists are simply people whose egos are not yet big enough to embrace the entire Kosmos, and so they try to be central to the Kosmos instead. But we do not want our sages to have big egos; we do not even want them to display a manifest dimension at all. Anytime a sage displays humanness in regard to money, food, sex, relationships we are shocked, shocked, because we are planning to escape life altogether, not live it, and the sage who lives life offends us. We want out, we want to ascend, we want to escape, and the sage who engages life with gusto, lives it to the hilt, grabs each wave of life and surfs it to the end this deeply, profoundly disturbs us, frightens us, because it means that we, too, might have to engage life, with gusto, on all levels, and not merely escape it in a cloud of luminous ether. We do not want our sages to have bodies, egos, drives, vitality, sex, money, relationships, or life, because those are what habitually torture us, and we want out. We do not want to surf the waves of life, we want the waves to go away. We want vaporware spirituality. The integral sage, the nondual sage, is here to show us otherwise. Known generally as tantric, these sages insist on transcending life by living it. They insist on finding release by engagement, finding nirvana in the midst of samsara, finding total liberation by complete immersion. They enter with awareness the nine rings of hell, for nowhere else are the nine heavens found. Nothing is alien to them, for there is nothing that is not One Taste. Indeed, the whole point is to be fully at home in the body and its desires, the mind and its ideas, the spirit and its light. To embrace them fully, evenly, simultaneously, since all are equally gestures of the One and Only Taste. To inhabit lust and watch it play; to enter ideas and follow their brilliance; to be swallowed by Spirit and awaken to a glory that time forgot to name. Body and mind and spirit, all contained, equally contained, in the ever-present awareness that grounds the entire display. In the stillness of the night, the Goddess whispers. In the brightness of the day, dear God roars. Life pulses, mind imagines, emotions wave, thoughts wander. What are all these but the endless movements of One Taste, forever at play with its own gestures, whispering quietly to all who would listen: is this not you yourself? When the thunder roars, do you not hear your Self? When the lightning cracks, do you not see your Self? When clouds float quietly across the sky, is this not your very own limitless Being, waving back at you? Just a metaphor used in this little Lèse-majesté Sorry, was a bit unprecise in recycling that metaphor. Selling Water by Crocodile-River

Or maybe you have not passed the Gateless Gate. Not big enough for the remains of the frog , even though in your case, they are quite thinned out thanks to some, ummm, substances, contemplation and meditation. But alas, even an Camel Alien can't pass the eye of a needle. Same with the Gateless Gate. Also ET needs the Mixer in order to have stable nondual Infinite Awakening sobre in daily life. And https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neti_neti is the mixer. Not this Alien, not that Alien. All the psychedelic states and insights, however high in manifestation & understanding & insight & Alien & whatever n+1, are just appearances. Temporary, just appearing, not constant, all disappearing again, just imagined, rolling "before" your True Being like a show. Just like life, dream, deep sleep, death, Astral, Bardo, Alien, God, Demon, n+1, or whatever other show consciousness lets appear later in... Infinite Being. You intuit that already. And after the Alien and whatever infinitely consciousness understanding n+1, "death" can wipe the slate clean. Infinite Being forgets (or rather doesn't let the memory-appearances arise again, and then throws itself out again on its own breadcrumb trail back home. Just for the fun of it). Until the resistance against that simple fact is dead & transcended in real time, the mixer is indicated. Luckily, nowadays they make Youtube-videos on how to avoid such traps. Uhuh, Water by the River now really has smiled at a very intelligent crocodile in the River Luckily, "he" is also all crocodiles, including the crocodile now probably smiling really hungrily at him. But luckily, that specific crocodile has enough smartness to enable the potential for some humour. PS: No non-existing-just-appearing aliens were harmed while filming the appearing movie with the mixer. And no self-existing separate (but instead just appearing) beings claiming Godrealizations have really been gaslit. Infinite Being just goes on being... Infinite. Eternal. Unchanging. Unharmed. In eternal silence & peace. And can neither be "mixered" nor "gaslit". Selling dumb ideas, like mixers for crocodiles or Aliens by the River

Weed addiction To raise my self esteem To stop being ambivalent To kill my self To have profound insights To stop existing To experience another dimension To have a separate personality To take ownership To stop being ambivalent To do something productive To be creative To write To go for the things I want To feel like a god To become god To merge with infinite consciousness To live in a privately defined world Cons Ending up in hell Solipsism Telepathy Thought broadcasting Feeling like god around others Alien hell , telepathic meaaages They Know Paranoid delusions Being torn apart by infinite information Nodes of consciousness overwhelm all my senses and I become omniscient toward human beings connecting to a telepathic superhighway

If you become alien mind like Leo describes, maybe you can access alien technology too. Maybe there is a universal Internet which you can access with a specific state of mind. There you can communicate with alien species around the whole universe. Maybe there is already an alien meta verse out there

Sure? Jacques Vallée, Passport to Magonia Jacques Vallée, Dimensions. Chapter "Conclusion: Exploring Other Dimensions" https://www.dmtx.org/ Rick Strassmann, Inner Paths to Outer Space: Journeys to Alien Worlds through Psychedelics and Other Spiritual Technologies Selling (imaginary) Alien&ETs by the River

I think going straight to God would be easier than alien hell. Again, haven't done it. But you don't know what my mushroom trips, or my weed trips are like. They're utterly horrifying.

@zazen Yes and no. Yes animals can mimic art by being trained in pattern recognition and most are driven by instincts. No in that I'm arguing that ART is far more bigger, hierarchical, and wider that it includes humans, animals, ghosts, anything with sentience has ART to some degree. The ART of a bird making a nest and bird songs, some birds even mimic sounds perfectly, is art at that form or level. Different level of ART when a human does S.T.E.M shit like airplane design or nuclear bombs and nuclear plants, even drawing and visualizing drawing. ART has degrees and a spectrum to it, just like consciousness has degrees. Human consciousness way different from ant's, or a spirit, or an alien, same with ART. I thought I was clear enough for most users reading my arguments? I'm saying art has levels, and not just saying humans only have ART and no animal cannot have art right? Spectrum right? I have realized this discourse was derailed hard into ART existential bs when it's specifically about music being objective or subjective? Sorry OP, seems my argument points here going above most people's heads so I'm outta this thread. All because some guys are jealous an elephant can paint a tree or birds sing better than they do right?

@OBEler How am I answering this myself that there's no art seen here? Why are you making it like my answer is it's only animal abuse and hard training when I said the animal is capable of ART by it's behaviors, like the bird constructing a hut and nest for it's mate, or the octopus using shells and mimicking it's surroundings, or the fish using a shell, or the elephant using a paint brush to paint a tree? Even a Chimpanzee uses branches and stones is part of ART. Visual capacity, trunk control(limb control in other animals/humans/aliens) and internalizations and mental representations and sense making apparatuses in our minds, consciousness, and external factors have EVERYTHING to do with ART! YES! You are an artist if you draw lines on a number picture, draw using pencils or pens or charcoal on a canvas or other surface mediums. At least when you demonstrate the externalities of ART like marking onto parts of an environment. And when you have consciousness of a human, animal, alien or any sentient life YOU ARE AN ARTIST! Spare me the moral outrage of an elephant being forced to draw this shit for tourists to get rewards. I get and understand that I won't forget that, and I will NEVER FORGET the sacrifices of other artists and the Mangakas that draw beautifully forcing themselves in minimum wages just top draw amazing artwork that FEELS AUTHENTIC! Of course ART will have some sacrifices and sufferings to making ART! I suffer making my own ART having to deal with my health and mental problems trying to draw my own ART! Do you think the birds and the bees and the Elephant and the octopus wants to deal with all that ART to survive and maintain their lives in this world?! Everything based on developmental factors, ART has internal and external factors, is systemic and based on the Spiral Dynamics stages of development, moral and cognitive development, psychology, society, cultural programing, information ecology, one's ideological beliefs indoctrinated.

Once on a mushroom trip I looked at my hands and they seemed strange, alien, twisted, monstrous. Everything I looked at had that same quality, threatening, unfamiliar, hostile, but the hands were the hands of a demon. Fortunately I managed to turn that environment into something, let's say, fluid.

Interestingly the actor r Matthew David McConaughey that is the protagonist in Interstelar is a scientist in Contact the very one who gave a compass to Dr. Eleanor Arroway and she give back saying that could save his life one day. And in Interstelar we have him and the Broken watch that is crucial to send the message inside de blackhole singularity to his child. In Contact she goes to a dangerous uncertaing trip and end up in a holographic beach where she meet her father who actually is an Alien that is showing up like that to not scare her. In Interstellar He also get inside of a place that was suppose to kill him (the blackhole) but actually is a place here he can conect with different time spaces. I feel there is a good possibility that the Director of Interstellar made some conections on purpouse since both movies deal with the same Ideia of the Mistery of Time, Space and Other Inteligent beings out there. And is nice to rememeber that in Interstelar the "Beings" who opened the blackhole were future humans themselfs. I think watching both movies in a row would be interesting and taking notes of the interconections.

Leo you've claimed that you've accessed Alien Superhuman levels of Intelligence.. If an alien were vastly smarter than humans, it would be because they have a much more advanced brain with lots more neurons and connections. So, intelligence is based on biology. This is also why God/Infinite Intelligence must be formless/non-physical because if it had a form it would need to be infinite in order to be Infinitely Intelligent. But how could a psychedelic drug make you that much smarter when it just changes your neurotransmitters? Since it doesn't affect the number of neurons in your limited physical brain.

In another thread people started to "attack" me, because I was talking rationally. They somehow concluded, that I must not have spiritual experience. I think spiritual experience is about making our mind more open, feeling the harmony and synchronicity. It's a state of mind, where you have a very deep sense of meaning. It's the "mindfulness" thinking, where your mind puts you into a state of wisdom and synchronicity, which arise from emptyness, and turns you into an egoless being. This is the truth of ethics, truth pointing to the higher. The rational, intellectual mind, which creates a "reason", is another power. It's to arise the logic, which is a negative pole on another end of the truth - when you do positive things, "supertruth", which arose from mindfulness, you still have further the negative truth. There is the truth of logic - it's pointing to the lack of the lower. Meditations have two extremes: meditations of non-concentration, like the Zen, and meditations of concentration or focus. When you concentrate on your thoughts, feelings, a mantra or a candle, then in some forms the concentration takes you to lower states. You do not think in terms of the whole, but in terms of the parts. You see how, the ideal meets the logic somewhere, and the ideals get destroyed. To think in the parts, being intellectual instead of mindful, has also another superpower - you think like a part, you work on tiny bit of something grander. Then, your enlightenment becomes the collective enlightenment - when you think intellectually, you think in union with others, and everybody works on their small part. This is the western superpower, and it has been very successful in enforcing it's power in the world - many eastern countries are also civilized in the western way, even if they work hard to integrate this to their own thinking. There is the whole, and it's reasonable to be mindful about this. Mind is capable to work with the wholes. But there are the parts and it's reasonable to be intellectual about them. The intellect is capable to work with the parts. When the mindfulness, the yang, becomes into extreme, it breaks. Maybe you live in a dream, but your dream starts to eat some kind of resources - for a dream to exist, and to exist in a power of civilization, there has to be a lots of logic. You see a dream, your mind is being a whole, but your brain is working like a machine. The second problem is witchcraft. You can be very enlightened and really able to build your dream. But then, in the end, it break logic - logic of mind, of community, of business, politics or physics. For example, people misunderstand your teachings and make mistakes. In this end, not by how the dream-nature goes, but how the logical reality goes, you get some bad karma, and it's slowly going to break you - you are witch in a sense that your karmic connections do not meet end-to-end, but there is some falsehood, where you cannot achieve your good karmic effect. Then, what you promised by your heightened states, becomes a lie, and people, who believed or synchronized subconsciously, become manipulated - because you are not able to give, what you promised and believed. This is a situation to be scientifically analyzed, because there are logical chains of actions, which do not meet together. It's extremely insulting to suggest people to not think rationally, to not use the power of the reason. It's another aspect of the same thing, when a materialist or an atheist is laughing about spirituality and fighting it down. The whole mind is both yin and yang - yin in looking the parts, yin in rationality and reason, and yang in looking the whole, yang in spirituality and belief. The Christianity and the Scientific Thought is working on the parts, and on the bigger wholes, which can be made up of the parts. People are together, and work for the greater whole, which they create or get from the God - one person is a small part of it. The Buddhism or Hinduism works rather with the small wholes, which start feeling the wholistic axes of the Universe, and synchronizing with this; the wholistic view is very personal. Still they cannot think so easily, how the parts work together. The intellectual thought brings the karmic ends together, until every person gets energy from activities, which are good to the system. By this karmic synchronization, it creates a civilization, a church, or a scientific community around the world. In this system, a person puts very little effort into getting their karma together - by following the direct reward and punishment, their karmic effects are already enlightened. They do not have to waste personal energy on this - they follow the easiest way, and in the system, by this non-doing, they behave like good parts. By this, the system starts operating like a machine - nobody is wasting the energy, but they only receive it, and the system is able to carry on with it's karmic responsibility. This creates the miracles of science, development of countries, other economical, political and intellectual miracles. It's able to win wars with personally enlightened beings - not exactly against the enlightened ones, but towards civilizing their cultures, which do not work like machines. The personal, mindful enlightenment, works on personal effort. The karmic thing to understand to behave well is very big, and then, the creative people try to create the civilization or the unity. It does not work like a machine, but takes the effort every day, and can burn out the participants. In civilization, when there is also a personal level of enlightenment - this is the supercivilization. When intellectual people are also mindful, it's a whole new potential. I think this combination of yin and yang is not possible to be beaten - the enlightened people are able to care about their surroundings and to work out the civilization, so that there is no need to civilize and colonize something for the others. It's very important to see that in Christianity and science, a big whole becomes enlightened and a single person thinks like a little part of the system, they think intellectual thoughts, which are never a whole - those thoughts are little parts of the whole. When this becomes enlightened, by big revolutions, like the scientific revolution and the democratic revolutions, it organized a huge brain, where people are tiny cells - and this brain becomes enlightened somehow, even if this is secret. I have always felt that in the big superpowers, there is some enlightened soul, which understands an enlightened person very well. They speak about alien contacts, psychic powers etc., which are somewhere there in the enlightened communities and act on their own. In those, an enlightened soul can see some extreme clear vision and wisdom, which recognizes the enlightened soul and their role in society, as the superpower itself has the same powers and understandings; it has became to be by enforcing the love, brotherhood and friendship, the collective good karma. On the other hand, Buddhists, Hinduists and others have the personal enlightenment - when a part is seeing the whole, it's like a dot on the hologram; from small number of such dots, the complete hologram can be formed - but there is more noise; from many of such dots, the hologram achieves good quality. When you take a little part of the hologram; every part contains the whole, but the whole has better quality, when the part is bigger. The part feels like a whole, but it cannot say it's the final end - the final end is when many parts feel the whole. The process is then creative and not systematic, and it needs a new effort every day, where, in the collective mind, only a system works and does it's thing kind of automatically - an official does not need to meditate every day for the government to exist, he simply does his little part like a machine. To be complete, we need to work for individual, mindful thinking, to have one projection of the hologram of the whole; but we also need to be intellectual and think in terms of the parts of the system or a machine, to combine our collective effort and build something grander than ourselves. This also has to exist inside ourselves - we have a mindful wisdom, but also the intellectual knowledge about the parts of the algorithms our mind sees as the wholes.

I feel as though I should not let myself off the hook. That is I feel a compulsion to get my life fixed. I don't really know what this fixing entails, but there is a definite constant nagging anxiety that isn't going away. However, the sensation is complex. I've always been a "fixer". As a kid I loved to take things apart and sometimes put them back together again. I was curious about the mysterious stuff inside mundane objects: TVs, alarm clocks, computers, washing machines and on and on. And of course when stuff broke, I could sometimes fix it, because I wasn't afraid of that complexity inside stuff. What's inside me? Well, it's definitely not cogs and levers and wires and components. The last ten or more years I've had an insatiable appetite to understand people in the same sort of way as I understand a toaster say. Naturally, understanding people is really nothing at all like understanding a toaster. In a way understanding people is completely alien to my way of thinking, and yet I have an itch to scratch. Some of it is the fault of my Dad who has been into the people thing a long time. Early on in my teenage years I started to absorb this stuff by osmosis - NLP and models of behaviour and improving communication and personal development - but I never really cared much for it. Anyway. My modus operandi has always been that if I have a problem, I fix it. Until that problem is fixed I feel a constant nagging anxiety. This is one of the traits that makes me think I'm on the spectrum. It's both a blessing and a curse. When it comes to myself however, it's quite possible that I'm working from the wrong paradigm. It's possible that in fact I don't need to or can't really "fix" my life as I would fix a toaster. No doubt there are low hanging fruit and if I paid enough attention those things, it would be easy enough to resolve in my life: girlfriend, buy a house, live somewhere I want to. Those things are "fixable" even if they're not particularly minor. When it comes to fixing ordinary objects it's really a matter of assessing the problem and then reducing the problem to its components. It's then a matter of identifying which components are faulty and fixing those one-by-one. There are components to my life but the difference is that they're all intimately connected to each other and bleed into each other; changing one thing here affects everything else. So I get this sensation of overwhelm whenever I think about fixing or changing any part of my life, there's too many variables and subtlety going on. One thing I feel strongly about myself is a dissonance between the parts of my life. For example if I were to stop doing the job I do tomorrow, I would not miss it all or the people I work with. That lack of emotion tells me that I am in fact doing the wrong thing. I spend an inordinate amount of time pandering to something I couldn't care less about - and yet it is keeping me alive. I spend a lot of time following my interests which are hugely varied. One reason I'm attracted to this forum and to Leo's stuff in general is because of the polymathic nature of it. I've been the same since I was small. Again my Dad is a bit of a polymath, but I've definitely surpassed him in that department! My sister too. Being this way excites me, there's so much stuff to learn and get to know about. I find very few other people are this way, it's kind of a sad and so I tend to not share my interests, people honestly just don't care. I try on occasion but soon give up. Sometimes people are even suprised by my depth of knowledge on a subject, people that know me well. Another component is precisely the people in my life. I half heartedly maintain a set of friendships. I find inserting myself into their lives difficult, that is to say that they are less flexible than I am. If I give it any thought it's a strange dynamic I have with my friends and my family. I think the source of that strangeness is me (this is another trait which makes me think I'm on the spectrum). I can find people exhausting and difficult to handle, my introvert nature shining through there. And yet a lot of the time I feel most relaxed, happy and connected when I'm with people. I also spend a lot of my idle time watching people via YouTube for example. In that sense I'm fairly extroverted. So there is a constant tension I have to navigate between these two poles. (It's not lost on me that I should do an NLP parts integration process here, as I've suggested to someone else on this forum.) That self imposed lack of connection to people is causing me sadness and it's ridiculous. When I went travelling all I did was spend time with other people, albeit with the odd bit of me time, and I was happy on the whole. I love my friends, but they are super conventional and normal. I've ended up being super conventional, and yet I'm 51 not married, no kids, no pets etc. Again I feel a very strong tension between wanting to be super conventional and not being conventional at all. I blame my parents (why not?). My Mum married a foreigner and moved to another country, my Dad is 78 doesn't want to retire and wants to go live in China (FFS). Anyway, these shenanigans by my parents have rubbed off on to my way of being. In some way, I'm playing pretend at being conventional when my very being is rebelling against this. Some of the reasons I'm standoffish with my family is that their unconventionality irks me (very big LOL here). My sister married an American and lives in Delaware and left her three kids in the UK with their father (grrrr). Another polarity in my life is that between my mental and physical self. I'm very much thought heavy in my being and this is strongly connected to my introversion. I get a lot of enjoyment out of thinking and learning, by myself. But I do also like to use my body, I hike, I play some sports, I play musical instruments - and it gives me a lot of joy too. I feel a strong imbalance however, I'm very much in a sedentary mental space most of the time. The balance needs to be redressed. In an odd way I also associate being physical with my more extroverted side. So. Some of the things I need to fix are all these bloody opposing tensions in my life, they're exhausting and keeping me in limbo. Some of things are to do with purely re-aligning things: the way I earn money should be connected to the things that make me happy: people and polymathy and physicality. But I feel I also need to live somewhere that allows me to express those things more easily, a rainy cold country such as the UK is not conducive to going out and being physical or wanting to go outside the home; it doesn't fit my more extroverted nature. I need to escape this conventionality, lack of alignment and disconnectedness it's killing me slowly inside.