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Awareness is only aware OF itself within its dualistic dream, which is existence. It's a subtle but significant point: the absolute is inherently and essentially awareness, beyond existence. To realize awareness requires the illusion of boundaries, but beyond boundaries, awareness is without requiring the appearances of forgetting and realization. Yes. "It" never (could) loose its eternal nature of Awareness. As the only Infinite Aware Reality without a second. If one fully understands what you just wrote... that alone is enough. Beautifully written. And that Awareness can be unaware of itself prooves its fully Empty Impersonal Nature. That is the point I want to bring across, above all else. Neti Neti to the final end, where concepts have long stopped working. Never stop early while the separate-self-gestalt-arisings are not fully transcended. And having walked the path of Neti Neti to its end: Infinite and Everything/Nondual. The pointer (fully empty impersonal nature, or Neti Neti) is the ticket for the way back home, And "can be unaware of itself" prooves this pointer. If IT would be anything other than empty/no thing/infinite, IT could look over its shoulder to see itself. IT can't. When IT does (or better tries), looking deeply into oneself in meditation, it/one has an experience of Emptiness/Nothingness. quod erat demonstrandum Water by the River

Jac O'Keffee: "I even heard a Nondual speaker say that Awareness is always aware of itself. [No] it is not. Sure it has [mostly] the experience of being aware of itself but: It is totally possible for awareness to be without being aware of itself. It totally shows itself to not have any clue that it exists at all. You pull away existence there is no sense of itself. " Or Pure Impersonal Consciousness unaware of itself: Possible. No Self-reflective anything appearing in it. And because that is possible, Infinite Consciousness/Awareness is fully empty, impersonal, infinite. Nothingness. And can be unaware of itself. But with the potential for sentience/awareness. When an appearance shows up. And self-awareness as soon as any identity/indivduality/separate-self-arising appears, and the self-reflective mind starts... Selling Water by the River

Yes, much better than Absolute Solipsism. How about Ken Wilbers description/perspective? Every "thing/being" actually is a perspective (of Infinite Consciousness), a Holon. A crystal node in Indras Net, reflecting and reacting on all other Nodes. Indras Net is a very common Psychedelic Experience, so its not just theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indra's_net And now the cruical point: Everything, from Human, Animal, Plant, Molecule, Atom can be considered as perspective/holon imagined and held in Gods/Absolute Reality/Infinite Consciousness/ seemlingly "spliced" up Infinite Mind divided into infinite sub-perspectives. And using perspective as fundamental building block of the Lila (imagined of course), one never has to leave the Mind-Only thinking/school (Yogachara school of Mind Only Doctrine of Buddhism for example). All is Infinite Mind/Infinite Impersonal Consciousness/Suchness/Nothingness. Then, its actually quite easy to explain what happens with actualized.org, or your Laptop, or anything else when "you" leave the room and don't perceive it anymore: It continues as perspectives/Holons (Molecules and so on) in Indras Great Net, the sum total of the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness. Not as matter, but as perspectives/Holons held in Indras Net. And Indras Net is nothing else then Infinite Consciousness spliced into infinite perspectives. Same holds of course for other beings like humans. No need to say "you don't exist when I don't perceive you", which is madness anyway. And every Holon contains other sub-holons, a human contains organs, cells, molecules, atoms. Each being perspectives/Holons/perspectives reflecting and reacting on other Holons/perspectives. That solves the remaining problems of Solipsism easily, although its then no longer Solipsism, but True Nonduality. Infinite Consciousness splitting itself up into the Infinite Perspectives of Indras Net of Holons/perspectives of consciousness. The sum total of these infinite perspectives of Consciousness of Indras Net forms then the totality of the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness. Or "form". And beyond, and yet also in it as its essence, in a truly nondual way, it the Absolute, or Infinite Reality. Infinite Impersonal totally Empty Boundless Timeless Consciousness. That way of perceiving Reality solves all problems of Solipsism, and leaves one with True Nonduality. And that way of perceiving is a pointer that (if practiced until achieving its referent/meaning, Enlightenment) actually points and leads not to a cosmic ego of infinitely bloated dimension, identifying in unity with the whole Kosmos, and only ending in the claws of the separate-self contraction and the suffering that the ego is at its core, but to an enlightened Mindstream of Impersonal Infinite Consciousness/Infinite Reality. And the freedom from suffering, bliss and love these awakened states carry as their essence. Selling Water by the River

I am curious about the experience someone has on MeO For example when you take a high dose/very high dose of MeO, how exactly is the transition from normal to psychodelic state of consciousness? Does it kicks in immediatelly or does the state noticeable build up? What do you see/feel then when it hits? What are typical visuals: everything black/white, nothingness, fractals? And how would you describe the experienced infinity: is it a feeling, a realisation, or impossible to describe?

Lovely Pointers. Thanks for the post. Yes, words fail. I don't mean to describe the Absolute as blind in any way. That is not its nature. If any, its nature IS Awareness, at its core. But too much "its" in this sentence of mine, and Awareness is not any "thing" being pointed to, despite the word awareness is a noun. One can go via the via negativa path: Nothingness. Or with positive description of properties or potential or "doing": Awareness. Potential for sentience. Or Awareness of perceptions perceiving themselves. At the end, "it" is empty, aware, nondual, infinite, all there is. And the Infinite Reality beyond all appearance. And IT is ones True Self. Nondual, Infinite. One without a second. Pure Impersonal Infinite Consciousness, Infinite Reality itself. Unchanging, Silent, eternal, unchanging, unmoving, without "anything" being possibly outside of it (infinite). So all "via negative", not this not that. And its potential or essence of Awareness. But Awareness is a "loaded" concept, see below. The negative concept are more uncritical. Nothing is as close to the divine as silence. And Nothingness as pointer for example covers Deep Sleep quite well. While describing the Absolute only as Awareness would cause probably some hard time understanding it for a non-enlightened being, since the experience/"memory" of it is different. As long as one can intuit right now what is still present in Deep Sleep, which can not not be there, it aligns again. Nothingness, as defined by Andrew Hawal, God is Nothingness. A pointer I personally like a lot. No danger of "solidfying" it as some kind of thing, or not empty consciousness. And "the" Awareness, or potential for it, clearly stil there Appendix I of "God is Nothingness" Some readers may be wondering why I say that awareness is not the Absolute, despite the fact that so many ancient scriptures and eminent teachers say that they are identical. For instance, Nisargadatta taught that consciousness is rooted in (and therefore limited to) the physical human form, while awareness transcended the individual body and was actually the Absolute—that everything is Universal Consciousness. This is more of an instructive approach than a philosophical commitment. If pressed as to whether the Absolute is awareness or not, I would say, like Huang Po did, that, “Mind is not mind, yet neither is it no-mind.” In Nothingness, there is some degree of awareness present—it is not how most people imagine brain death—albeit unconditioned, object- and subjectless. The Consciousness (for lack of a better word) of Non-being is so subtle that the moment we try to reflect upon it to check if we are conscious, we are jarred back into ‘being’ and into our ordinary dualistic consciousness. I hesitate even to call this experience “pure subjectivity,” for that invites a metaphysical position that I am not willing to support. In the end, to paraphrase Socrates, all that I know is Nothing. This Consciousness has shed all of the characteristics that people normally identify with awareness, such as perspective, spatial and temporal contexts, objects, ownership, etc. Yet, if there were no awareness, then it would be impossible to differentiate the numinous Nothingness from how people conventionally conceive of blankness or being comatose. Personally, I think that differentiating between Nothingness and consciousness is helpful, and that is my ultimate goal—to help people realize Non-being or Absolute Consciousness. At that point, I can care less whether people call it Nothingness, God, Brahman, Buddha Nature, One Mind, Universal Consciousness, or a kangaroo. Names at that point, after the Absolute has been realized, are insignificant." Yes, and that needs to be added. I can understand why you write that. All Pointers at the end are not it, but arise in it. Probably some resonate more with certain pointers than with others. We are all just starting communicating that. There are no studies showing which pointers work better for which practitioner. And that should be the goal: To get the maximum number of people to get "it". Of course not in a grasping way. So, I can just state the Pointers that worked for me. And for other practitioners wired similiar as me, probably could work too. And try to intuit which pointers probably work for the largest number of beings. Anyway, as we both know, the bliss & love these awakened nondual states of Pure Infinite Consciousness bring, leading to a drowning of the activities and self-contraction of the separate self, conversing about pointers arising within IT is just some minor nuisance that one just does to be able to communicate it at least a bit. I do have a faible for trying to align the pointers of different systems/traditions/teachings. Being able to explain which mystic used which pointer (and some are quite contradicting, for example the topic of Its Awareness vs. Awareness is not it), and what he/she means with the concepts. If for example using the term/pointer/concept "Awareness", there is a huge spectrum ranging from Awareness OF, to Pure witnessing Awareness to Nondual Unity Awareness to Infinite boundless timeless Awareness.... And that faible for aligning the pointers of different systems comes from having needed to do that on the path. My path. And there many many paths up the mountain, and many many pointers.... Ah, UnbornTao, please hit me. Seems I can't write short posts. Water by the River

according to my current understanding, which is recent and surely must be quite nuanced, reality is not a mind, it is the total infinity that it is. total infinity gives rise to a mind that has attributes such as intelligence and will, which limits and creates forms getting blind to the infinity and creating the finite. this mind is also limited in some way because if it were not, it would not create limitation. Ultimately, the absolute is undifferentiated, infinite, and total, without creation or activity. First, I am in full alignment with everything Moksha said. That description is precise, beautiful, and doesn't have the problem that many other pointers have. That said: I would have probably never gotten it from the usual very concise pointers. Maybe I would have, but much much later. Of that I am convinced. Looking back after got it, its totally clear what is meant with these pointers. What is written below would have helped me quite a lot back in the day. So excuse the length please. Topic 1: Why does Huang Po use Universal Mind? Why is Infinite or Absolute a better pointer, althoug Universal Mind/Infinite Consciousness is still correct? Better Pointer is: Infinite Reality. Absolute. Because no object/appearance = No Awareness. Infinite. Empty. Nothingness. Similiar to Deep Sleep. Not exactly the same, but by definition "one" is still existing then, else one wouldn't come back in the morning. And one can't say what Infinite Reality is, because it is infinite. Infinite Reality IS. So best pointer is: Infinite Reality. Nothingness. Not yet awareness or mind. But: Infinite Reality has the potential/capacity for sentience/awareness. As soon as something shows up, then its no longer Infinite. Massaros water pistol example of a waterpistol just appearing in Infinite Vastness (which was "the case" before the water pistol/anything showed up. The potential for awareness just showed up as awareness, because an object and duality appeared. So because of this potential for sentience/Awareness, one can describe IT as Universal Mind, Infinite Consciousness/Awareness. But even more precise is Infinite Reality/Nothingness. Because without anything appearing, it isn't really a mind. It is IT. Infinite. But also not different from Impersonal Infinite Consciousness/Awareness. It all depends on the meaning of the concepts/pointers. Wolinsky goes the hardcore-path: The Absolute/Infinity Reality/True You is NOT Awarnesness nor Consciousness. He described Awareness/Consciousness as Awareness OF, Consciousness OF. And rejects Awareness/Consciousness as Absolute. Because for him its always Awareness OF, Consciousness OF. Which is not incorrect, see the Water Pistol example. That is also correct. Same does Andrew Halaw, and his pointer Nothingness. So the problem with Awareness is: There is always (!) an Awareness OF, even if its a subtle formless object, like certain causal states. An infinite darkness suffused with light. Ok, what is the light? Ah,... . Without the OF (or the object appearing), Awareness is still there, but more as potential. Infinite. Or Nothing/empty. These Dualities collapse then. And that is the most important meaning of all of it. At the Absolute and Infinite Reality, any duality or any pointer just collapses. Infinite. Empty/Nothing specific. Potential for Awareness. And all of that not different things, but ONE without a second, Infinite. Real Nondual Infinite. Topic 2: And then, the separate-self, the self-reflective mind: Looking AT something thinking it is one self, or looking over its shoulds trying to see itself, and generating an EXPERIENCE of emptiness/Nothingness/Awareness/blank/whatever. JUST AN EXPIRIENCE, not real you/Infinite/Absolute. And next challenge is: The separate-self is a self-reflexive movement in Infinite Reality: Consciousness turning its head back to see itself, doesn't see itself of course, has an EXPERIENCE of Nothingness/emptiness/Infinity. And this LOOKING over its shoulder IS the Illusion of the separate self, of the self-reflective mind. And that movement of looking over its shoulds happens IN Infinite Reality/IN Infinite Consciousness. And all doubting/searching/reflecting/thinking that is it/what is it/that is not/do I have it/do I understand it.... ALL of that is "movement" within Infinite Consciousness, OBJECTS appearing, staying, disappearing. Moving within oneself. And even the understanding/realization/Enlightenment happens within it, within Pure Impersonal Infinite Consciousness/Infinite Reality that can be unaware of itself. One never can get "out" of this Infinite. And Infinite Reality is NEVER and object. It is not the experience of "oneself" or anything within it TRYING to see itself (the eye can't see itself). Jac O'Keffe: Primary Consciousness (her term for Infinite Reality and Infinite Consciousness) IS SUCH A FUNDAMENTAL that it CANT TURN AROUND AND SEE ITSELF. Cant look back over its shoulder to see itself. That would be a movement within it. Please watch this video a few times: "Primary Consciousness (Infinite Consciousness) is such a fundamental it CANT SEE ITSELF." Ok, I am rambling on. Please go through the links & video a few times. There are enough pointers in there to really get it. And sorry guys if it is so long. I can't make it shorter and still get the meaning across with any reasonable chance. If anybody can make it shorter, and still get the complexity of it across, please let me know. You get a few free beers from me while you explain me how to do it shorter. I also can do the frog pond plop, or Infinite Mind, or whatever in a one liner. Just probably nobody will get it.,, The way above, probably also nearly nobody will get it. Takes awakened states. But maybe some who are on the edge will, and others will have a better map up the mountain, and will spot and get what to do/where to go at certain stages. Bon voyage! Selling Water by the River

ok, here comes the take of yours truly. Warning: Bumpy conceptual ride ahead! All of them: concepts, used with differing meaning in different concepts. Not any kind of Absolute Truth, but concepts appearing in IT. Below is the take of yours truly on the most common usage. Void: Anything from a state (causal, void state) to Ultimate Reality. But is better used as a state description Truth: Normally pointer to Absolute Reality. Absolute Reality: Same. Absolute Solipsism: Trying to think ones way via conceptual thinking to the Absolute Reality which is infinite, and which can mostly only be described in negative terms, since any positive description would limit it. Doing the Universal Mind/Infinite Consciousness thing of Huang-Po (see last post) is ok. But confusing this Impersonal Infinite Consciousness with a mind-stream that is not fully awakened, aka where a separate self confuses itself with Ultimate Reality, is, uh, not so smart. Biggest Problem: Proponents of that normally don't have awakened/enlightened states in daily life. Biggest Risk: Narcicissm, not Ego-death but Cosmic-Ego. Identifying separate self or any kind of identity/self with Totality. Usefulness for the Path to the Mountain Summit/Nothingness/Absolute: Shooting ones knee with a gun and then trying to start walking and proclaiming how fast one got already on the mountain summit while limping in the valley Alien Consciousness: Some understanding on the form/manifestation side of Infinite Consciousness, albeit much more than a human is capable off in non-tripping-states, on a very high level. Better yet, ask the creator of that concept. Yours truly has no intelectual ownership on it. Danger: Proclaiming that as more important than Full Enlightenment, or letting go of the separate-self illusions that cover ones Deep Identity as Impersonal Nothingness/Infinite Consciousness/Absolute Reality, in which every appearance/thougt/self-concept-arising can only arise as Illusion/Dream/Mirage. Leads apparently to chasing the next Awakening, n+1. And not being quite happy on a permanent basis. God Realization anything from Full Enlightenment to a tool to bash any form of Awakening/Enlightenment one doesn't like. Depens on the usage and author using that term. For the bashing-anything-else-version of it, clear definitions are usually not given. Could sound like Full Enlightenment if really spelled out explicitely. No-Self tricky term. In its highest meaning: the final death/transcedence of each and any separate self arising. True No-Self. can be also be used for anything from no-Ego, no-Person, like opaque witness or transparent witness. should only be used for Pure Impersonal Nothingness/Impersonal Infinite Consciousness to avoid confusions. The most interesting conept/pointer would be Full Enlightenment. For that, see my last posts. Selling Water by the River

@Leo Gura Oh, there are and were plenty who did understand exactly that.... It is called Full Enlightenment. How many books did you read on Buddhism/from Buddhism? Which traditions? And to make such a statement "no Buddhist comprehends": Do you know all Buddhists personally? Why not say no Buddhist I know comprehends this.... And did the Supreme Source got declassified as a description of God Realization (Link below) in the meantime by the n+1 next Awakening? And if so, how and why? Just a humble question, I am really curious. Supreme Source/Kulayarāja Tantra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulayarāja_Tantra That is one of the "bibles" of Dozgchen. Like, many many many aficinados of that text in Tibet & realized beings in the past. "According to the Tibetologist David Germano, the Kunjed Gyalpo "is the main canonical work of the Great Perfection [Dzogchen] as it emerges from the "dark period" (850 to 1000 C. E.)" And on Buddhism: Which fully enlightened being in his right mind having walked a Buddhist Path to Full Enlightenment would consider himself as "Buddhist"? And like, really believe it? Like "I" am a Buddhist .There probably umteenth different systems to Enlightenment at many Alien-species in the Universe with its billions of planets... And which Buddhist Full Enlightened Realizer would see Buddhism NOT as a dream? Not a single one, see below. For example, check 3 Pillars of Zen, Kapleau, dialogue Harada to Yaeko: Yaeko, [newly fully enlightened] I simply can’t understand why I always made such a to-do about respecting Buddhism or anyone who had attained full enlightenment. Have I been dreaming? Harada Roshi: Dreaming? Certainly. Yet as dreams go in this world it is not the commonplace dream of most but a dream of tremendous and lasting significance, of intense absorption in the Buddha’s Dharma. And once fully enlightened, often byebye monastery & Buddhism orthodoxy, see below: "When my master realized the complete extinction of the dualistic mind, his life changed radically. In order to avoid problems with the authorities, as he was certain they would not understand, he left his monastery and retreated to a hermitage, where only a few disciples could find him. I too went to visit him in that wild place. At that time I had not yet received this teaching so I was surprised by his behaviour, but I was not outraged because my faith in him was absolute. I noticed my master did not do any more formal practice and did not even bestow the initiations to which we were accustomed. He continued to give teachings of various kinds, according to his disciples' capacities, however in a style that was much simpler than before. Moreover, on specific occasions he also performed rituals for his disciples but his actions were new and I did not know their meaning. One fine day I decided to ask the master what his spiritual practice was. He remained silent, perfectly still, staring into my eyes. Under the influence of his silence, I too became silent and entered, for a moment, into a limpid, non-conceptual state. After a while, I heard the master say that that was the direct transmission of the sacred wordless revelation, the teaching beyond scriptures and symbols. " Mahämudrä and Atiyoga, Giuseppe Baroetto Lovely book by the way... And on Buddhism as system to Enlightenment, an analogy: If the ideal of Christianity is the Saint... How much Saints did it produce? Quite some. But compared to the Totality of believers, next to none. Horrible and hilariously low success rate. Does Christianity have paths that end up with Sainthood if fully walked? Yes. How many walk the path? See above. If the ideal of Buddhism is the Fully Enlightened Realizer... How much Fully Enlightened did it produce? Quite some. But compared to the Totality of believers/practitioners, next to none. Horrible and hilariously low success rate. Does Buddhism have paths that end up with Full Enlightenmentif fully walked? Yes. How many walk the path? See above. So is it justified to bash complete Buddhism? Why don't you make some nice definitions of what God-Realization is according to your definition, and why that is higher than FULL Enlightenment? With emphazis on FULL Enlightenment, in which each and every and possible appearance/arising/separate-self anything is seen as mere appearance/manifestation/illusion/dream IN THAT (One without a second, Absolute, Nothingness), and each and every backgroundstory (history, others, past, spiritual system, separate self-arising, ANYTHING) is seen as dream/mirage/illusion? As dream/mirage/illusion arising here and now, its essence being Nothingness. Not the partial Enlightenments, which are probably 50 times more common than the real thing. In the partial Enlightenments, of course there is still the background-BS-story still active, because the separate-self (even the empty and unity/nondual version of it) still dreams its dream? A more lucid dream, but not woken up yet? The constant similiarity between all FULL Enlightenment descriptions is: ALL is dream, ALL is Lila, ALL is Illusion/mirage, All is show. Lila= Absolute/God/Reality fooling itself to play a little game... And not only ALL of it is a Dream/Fooling oneself, ANY possible n+1 form/arising can only be dreaming/fooling oneself. How can God Realization go "deeper" in understanding the illusion of "how God fools itself" than Full Enligthenment, if in Full Enlightenment each and any concept/feeling-arising, especially deep ones of the separate-anything-self, are seen as fooling oneself? Like in, any possible form at all, n+1? I mean, we can postpone that discussion until your Course is done & sold. But at some point it would be really nice to have some substantial feedback on that. And "can't be put into words" doesn't count, Full Enlightenment can also not be put into words. Yet very good pointers can be used, if done so in a smart way. And the concepts/talking can be done up to a quite high altitude of the mountain, shortly below the summit. If done skillfully, and investing the effort. At least, give it a try. And if you say that can only be understood after umpteenth trips on 5 MeO or whatever... I just would like to ask the reader to watch these three videos, and ask himself in which state he would like to be (and feel) himself? And maybe end up? It is wise to choose ones teachers on how they feel and how happy they are, because one could feel the same after walking their path for 5 years... (and by the way: How can one be gaslit when all is a dream arising in Suchness?) or Not that Adi Da didn't f*** up as Cult-Leader in the words of Ken Wilber (more comments on Adi Da here): Anyway, no disrespect! I highly value your endeavours up until around the Solipsism Video/Infinity of Gods.... Then it looked like some remains of some identity/separate self were projected on Infinite Absolute Reality/Nothingness, and you didn't get the bliss & love of stable Realization of Impersonal Infinite Consciousness in daily life. but got fascinated by relative/form/manifested-stuff, of the Alien version and the like. The searching for the camera to capture Alien god because the ones available couldn't capture it.... was a bit worrisome. I really got worried about you. But still, what counts is the spirit and motivation, and everything before the videos mentioned above was worthy of a true pioneer in these unchartered territories. In that sense, I am looking forward to an answer from you, preferably of the cool, substantiated and a bit elaborate kind. Doesn't need to be now. If you need to make up your mind about these topics, and if takes months or longer, no problem. Fine with me. Thank you, and Namaste! Water by the River

Awesome! Somebody doing the "real" work of transcending the "bugs" of the separate-self for real, not just taking a brief look behind the curtain Javfly33, please allow me some hijacking of this topic in my ususal brazen style. Taking it in daily life is where real freedom starts: When one is confident that this can be done on any thought-arising and self-concept. Because one knows it from experience, also when the real heavy shocks of life come visit... And the fullness/love comes when one has the same confidence of doing this in daily life "everywhere" "one" "goes", and one is able to a) just cut each thought/I-thought/I-feeling arising in oneself b) or not, because its useful (character). Then, the bliss and love of these Awakened Awareness states begin to flow, and it all gets nondual and later infinite. Want to know how that Empty Pure Infinite Impersonal Consciousness can feel like, today and 1000 years ago, when one goes fully "cutting" each and every arising? Try to feel his (Adi Da) internal continuum and emotional state. He doesn't flinch or react. Because there is nothing inside capturing attention, but his attention/focus has relaxed/dissolved and he IS the whole Infinite Field of the Opening of Reality. Once enlightened, one doesn't have to do this (one can act fully normal), but one can. And if one is not fully awake, one can't. Not this long, this empty. That is how Koans are answered and checked btw. When in that state, one can say Raspberry and pass. That is what the brain waves do then: And don't do the Adi Da show, way uncool.... With Adi Da, one can see how much one can f*** up , to quote Ken Wilber, even with Enlightenment. So better have some conditioning of the "cooler" variant ready before crossing over... makes a more happy lucid dream after the untimely early demisal of anything separate moving in oneself. And if one really needs the cult, the awakened states of the video above attract.... because its not mental mumbo jumbo, but every being can feel it. And one would be quite insane to not want these states too. I am just no aware of a better video on youtube showing that, that why I chose that guy, not because its a smart or cool way to unpack ones self-realization. So, it is like riding the wave of emerging thought/feeling-capsules, which emerge than with quite very high speed (20 different arisings per second+). When ones attention is fast enough, and oneself familiar enough with all separate-self-identity arisings/tricks, one can do that. But of course, to get there, one has to work through and transcend any core-identity or trauma that would normally hpynotize oneself, and capture ones attention. Because guess what Maya is going to throw at you? Just to keep you nice and deluded in the illusion? Some juicy core-identity, narcissism, self-grandiosity, or trauma of course... And after a certain time having that awareness ongoing in daily life, it all gets nice and comfy nondual. Then, the reamaining agent/separate self coordinating this meditation (a very murky transparent nothing, but contradictory, because it sometimes thinks it controls the thing, or is proud on that achievement, and what not. Roger Thisdell stage 4) at some point realizes that this riding the wave of the thought/feeling stream can be done automatically by Awakaned Awareness itself, and gets out of the way (stage 4 Mahamudra, Nonmeditation Yoga). And then it goes from Nondual to Full Empty Pure Impersonal Consciousness (for example Thistell stage 5, below), "everything" arising in it, including the remains of the functional character side, but this time doing its thing without a separate self getting in the way. Pure Impersonal Consciousness, or Infinite Awakened Awareness, can run the show all by itself, better than the old one ever could. And welcome home! And then Javfly33, maybe consider doing such a video as Adi Da, but in a cool style, without the cult Bon Voyage! Selling Water by the River PS: Critical Point for me concerning taking it into daily life, and staying on top of the wave of the mind-stream and its emerging thoughts, using the mindstream itself as meditation object (but not in a mindfulness way of being mindful OF these thoughts, but cutting them at will with high enough speed to catch them all or riding along with full awareness of the object-character of the arisinsg of the mindstream arising in me). Meditation training makes a) able to cut the thought/feeling by looking into it, and b) doing that fast enough. Power & Speed so to say. " Skill of Recognition: (1. Yoga of Mahamudra system) Now it gets interesting. That was the decisivepoint for me once I understood that, and implemented it. Afterwards, it started to get nondual pretty soon... If you look HOW the thoughts emerge, (1) out of what they emerge, (2) what they are, (3) in what they move (4) into what they disappear ALL of that (1)(2)(3)(4) must be present. Thoughts DO appear. From "something". Stay in "something". Consisting of "something" All of that is Emptiness, or Consciousness, or Nothingness. Thoughts are made of "that","move in that", "dissolve into that". and you will never SEE that, or can say what it is. Nothing. But not a blank nothing. An aware Nothing. Actually the essence of all world-appearances, but that comes later, when it gets nondual, at the Yoga of One Taste. What happens if you investigate into emerging thoughts this way, is that they get FASTER. VERY FAST. Like 20-30 emergent thoughts/feeling arisings per second, most of them rudimentary. The mind does this to keep the illusion going. To make it too fast for you. But at some point, you learned to get that fast also..."

1. Stop contradicting yourself. You ask for a human being answer. This usually means you want something in the realm of the materialistic paradigm when you refer to human. 2. After asking for a human answer...you immediately start asking for spiritual answers and then have the nerve to ask about nothingness? These questions deal with concepts that are not part of the normal human being paradigm. So the first thing you need to do....is figure out what it is you want. Do you want a self-help materialistic answer? Or do you want a metaphysical answer? If you want both...understand that they will conflict and contradict each other as the human paradigm deals with logic which is finite, whereas metaphysics deals with infinity.

Excellent. For me, the crucial Point for really getting the meditation "really" off the pillow into daily life was getting to THAT here Skill of Recognition: (1. Yoga of Mahamudra system) Now it gets interesting. That was the decisivepoint for me once I understood that, and implemented it. Afterwards, it started to get nondual pretty soon... If you look HOW the thoughts emerge, (1) out of what they emerge, (2) what they are, (3) in what they move (4) into what they disappear ALL of that (1)(2)(3)(4) must be present. Thoughts DO appear. From "something". Stay in "something". Consisting of "something" All of that is Emptiness, or Consciousness, or Nothingness. Thoughts are made of "that","move in that", "dissolve into that". and you will never SEE that, or can say what it is. Nothing. But not a blank nothing. An aware Nothing. Actually the essence of all world-appearances, but that comes later, when it gets nondual, at the Yoga of One Taste. What happens if you investigate into emerging thoughts this way, is that they get FASTER. VERY FAST. Like 20-30 emergent thoughts/feeling arisings per second, most of them rudimentary. The mind does this to keep the illusion going. To make it too fast for you. But at some point, you learned to get that fast also... Basically, looking into a thought, one sees its Emptiness/Nothingness (one doesn't find the thought, it evaporates). It is cut off. Dzogchen calls this cutting off "Trekchö". Daniel Brown called this stage a "High Speed Search Task into the unfindability of the nature of thoughts". A High Speed Search task into their emptiness, into their nature as consciousness, as Nothingness. So the emerging gets fast, very fast. Daniel Ingram also mentions that. But at some point, with enough practice and familiarity, YOU get faster. You spot and cut off every very fast, subtle, fragmentary thought arising. None of them "grips" you anymore, since you have seen them all, and their structure. Just thoughts arising very fast. You don't control which thoughts arise. Depended origination, they are just emerging by themselves. You can focus on just their arising (of thoughts), just their staying, just their going away. At some point, they just emerge, looking into their nature is automatic, and they immediately dissolve. No duration. Just emergence, and poof gone. And when you are fast enough, you get a continuance of staying mindful. When that happens its pretty clear what happened. Your attention got so fast that you can stay mindful even through the high-speed thought emergence. At the end, they come very fast, they don't get "elaborated out". Thinking, or elaborating the thoughts out, is slower than their emergence. They emerge already fully complete with their content, and then slowly get "talked/elaborated" in your mind. Natural reaction: So WHO the f*** am I (pardon my french) when I don't control what thoughts emerge and if they appear fully with their content in a fraction of a second, and get elaborated later in a hypnotic show over several second? good question... to be answered later. Outcome is: You know the nature of every possible thought (Consciousness-Emptiness-Nothingness), of the whole mental-continuum of thoughts, all that there can be. Their nature. you can cut off or transcend/just watch your normal mindstream in most daily situations without getting caught up/hypnotized by it, which already here leads to a lot of bliss. Not sufficient bliss to get ones separate self completely handled, but already quite wonderful. That is the start of real freedom. You know how your mindstream hypnotizes you, and gets faster when you actually look into each thought arising and its nature. At some point you get fast enough to cut off every arising, or let it elaborate in a controlled aka mindful way. Maybe that is interesting for some. Selling Water by the River

@Bazooka Jesus and when Bazooka is finished breating in the bag and is no longer nervous... he will also rejoice in the new found alignment in the relationship of Razard and yours truly. ... maybe he will even join us here singing: Yes, I thinking we are getting there.... For sure not for long, but lets rejoice in this moment of appearing harmony... Isn't this Lila lovely, so many "others" to love? Its not so lonely as in Pure Nothingness.... ok, its imagined, but "who" cares... No other game in town, and lovely movie anyway... Selling Water by the River

Hi Davecraw, in the humble experience of yours truly, you can not rule out with logic if something else besides experience exists until certain Awakened States are realized that show the infinite and limitless nature of the Visual Field, and any other possible field/dimension (like the dimensionless opening/dimension in which subtle objects like thoughts arise). But: One can (and should) use logic to get to an agnostic level: NOTHING prooves that there is a material, external, self-existing world beyond the bubble of the visual field, beyond experiences. You can neither proove nor disproove that with logic. That is a fine point, because arguing WITH logic that only experience exists is one bridge too far. Can't be done. One would need to twist logic to proove that. Although certain very active gentlemens are giving it very extended tries at the moment. Prooving that only experience exists (and no self-existing external material world) can only be done with Awakened States that show the following properties of an Awakened Field of Awareness (below, the goal/outcome of Yoga of one Taste, stage 3 Mahamudra. One Taste = Nondual Union with the Infinite Field) any felt separation between "you" and the "external world" appearing in the visual field is vividly felt first as arising object of subject-object separation, a felt sensation, that then gradually disappears. Including all localization in the body (tension head, body-feelings that cause localization, and so on). Yoga of Illusory Body for example, there are discrete energetic practices to dissolve these contractions/localizations. Or just wait long enough in empty states.... so, union,"nondual" with the field. any "boundary" to anything limiting that visual field (or any other field) can only be an arising, an appearance. Not the boundless limitless infinite Nothingness. time, past and future is seen as mere concepts/ideas/arisings in the timeless Always Here Mind of Infinite Awakened Awareness/Infinite Consciousness. everything in the visual field is just appearance, "hovering" as pretty lucid display in mere Nothingness. -> mere apperance these states bring a lot of bliss and love It happens approximately in that order progressively with good meditation practice. Or, if you are lucky, all by itself (Karma,state). But then good luck telling anybody of the structure of the path to get there that one didn't even notice the path while one passed it, because they flew over it. Or: Ramana and all the other Wunderkinder/prodigies probably won't be able to tell you much details about the turns, wrong exits and scenic views on the road to Awakening, because they took the 747 to the destination. and the Zen and Theravada path tend also tend to not give a very detailed map (at least in the opinion of yours truly), but just a compass and say: go/meditate west, to the west is California & the Ocean. Mahamudra gives you a quite detailed map: Death Valley is here, you wanna go there, don't take the wrong exit, don't camp here, here are the gentlemen with bows&arrows, and so on... So, to get these states: (good efficient) meditation, or psychedelics. Then, counting together the awakenings above in bold letters, it becomes what is called in Mahamudra "boundless limitless timeless nondual loving Awakened Awareness". And THEN you can talk about "there is only experience, anywhere, everywhere", without needing to fool yourself with logic in the nature of your experience. And btw., that is not theory or wishful thinking, but my actual experience with a meditation system of Mahamudra (Tibetan Buddhism, "companion"-system of Dzogchen) described best in Pointing Out the Great Way, Daniel Brown , developing over quite some years. All of the above is the of and up to Yoga of One Taste (3. Stage Mahamdura). Ken Wilbers Diary Book has the titel "One Taste". The same One Taste of that practice, refering to it. One Taste: Daily Reflections on Integral Spirituality, Wilber. The outcome of Yoga of One Taste (3. Stage Mahamdura) gives one a shot (or many many, since many many are neede) to dissolve the last separate self-arisings remnants (the Yoga of Nonmeditation stage 4 Mahamudra), which then brings Full/Complete Enlightenment, in Leos terms God-Realization (although i find that term a bit bombastic, although technically precise if God is Ultimate EMPTY IMPERSONAL Infinite Reality) . Yoga of Nonmeditation dissolves the last remnants of a separate self moving in oneself/Infinite Reality, like awareness of being, awareness of self, any self-reflective arising of being anything. (hint: of= subject object, not full nondual. Still self-reflective thinking/identity creation). What remains is: Reality. The Totality. And zero separation, real Nonduality. Empty. Impersonal. Pure Infinite Consciousness. Staying as "always eternally here" Infinite Impersonal Nothingness. With Awareness as its essence. Yoga of Nonmeditation does this in that any meditation is so fully automized that there are no more separate self arisings doing the meditation to generate and stabilize the Awakened States of Yoga of One Taste, 3. Stage Mahamudra. Not that actually an illusion separate-self claims "Oh I am doing this nondual meditation so great". Would be a funny contradiction of Nothingness would be really pure impersonal Infinite Consciousness if something like that arises, hm? And that takes also a lot of time. Don't fry your brains too much trying to these maybe 500h-1000h+ with 5 MeO (depending of course on ones Karma/brain and body), because yours truly has never read/heard about a credible case where that has been done. Although they could exist. Volunteers for the fried brains, anybody? Joke: How do you spot a pioneer? Got a few fried brain cells arrows in the back. Just kidding. We do need that tested out. And how Psychedelic Paths combined with meditation systems above... Pure Mahamudra is too slow to have larger impact. Allthough still the best system (in the opinion of yours truly) of all of them, and then, good morning after waking up, game over, welcome home! And be nice to "enlighened persons", What is mostly being done with meditation and especially psychedelics, is dabbling around up to and around stage 3, Nonduality (Yoga of One Taste), with are more or less empty subject, up to a very empty witness already in union with then Nondual Infinite Field. "Having" Awakenings. With any kind of content: This World, Aliens, the management & staff running this Universe, other Dimensions, whatever ones heart delights in. An Infinity (literally) of stuff to explore... What is not so often talked about is the "suicide" of stage 4, Nonmeditation Yoga, Full Enlightenment. Getting fully Impersonal with transcending/killing each and every separate-self arising having all these lovely nondual experiences/awakenings. No Aliens required, but still possibly quite a bit scary for sure. But looks only scary from before the Gateless Gate. Any separate self arising (the enlightened or awake "person" having these awakenings, n+1) raising its ugly head, are seen as just more separate-self-contractions buzzing in Ones True Self. Another annoying little headache-bug to laugh about. Another moskito buzzing around in the Infinite Reality that one then realizes onself to be and ever having been, to squatt/Trekchö. One more contraction to let go and transcend. and one lucky day, one just wakes up. But death is death, transcendence is death, even if its only the death of an Illusion. And Maya needs her tools, like the Wizard of Oz, else everbody would just say bye bye to the game. [Disclaimer: In nearly all cases, real suicide is about the most stupid thing one can do. Back to square 1, more Karma added on top. Or how to continue the dream, dodging out ones Karma of this life, with additional Karma on top from hitting the reset-button. But no soul gets lost, just do 3rd grade again, with a headache-hangover from the last try. Finally, every soul graduates college. But some like school so much that they don't listen to most teachers, and do some classes over and over again]. So, have fun on the trip, don't fry your brains, keep your humor (Wilber, Transcendence restors humor), squatt all separate self bugs, and Bon Voyage! Selling Water by the River Ken Wilber wrote: “TRANSCENDENCE RESTORES HUMOR. Spirit restores humor. Suddenly smiling returns. Too many representatives of too many movements – even many very good movements, such as feminism, environmentalism, meditation, spiritual studies – seem to lack humor altogether. In other words, they lack lightness, they lack a distance from themselves, a distance from the ego and its grim game of forcing others to conform to its contours... They should all trade two pounds of ego for one ounce of laughter”(Ken Wilber. 1999. One Taste: The Journals of Ken Wilber. December 7). PS: And for all other beings/perspectives of Indras Net, see: and if you don't already have an overkill, and better go for nice walk or so... Some more for the Aficionados of conceptual overkill: And now, really better go fishing or something... “frog pond plop”

Yes, you are right. God needs attention . Nothingness with its Infinity Plentitude, in which every emotion arises WITHIN, NEEDS the emotion of getting attention. Not the ego needs attention, but God/Divinity does. Yeah, right. Like this gentlemen with style & taste, who just craves attention. Why else he likes to play with the two legged walking contradiction? Even though they are not on his level? But hey, you are doing good. Actually great. You single-handedly destroy the closed ideology of Conceptual Absolute Solipsism as anything that can be taken seriously by anybody on the forum that is able to think beyond Circular Logic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning#:~:text=Circular reasoning (Latin%3A circulus in,are trying to end with. and anybody with a heart that can actually feel wether one has fallen mainly in love with the reflections in the pond of Narcissus and the attention-craving these reflections cause, or is acting out of deep, honest and humble compassion with all beings. And for sure you demonstrate which kind of being resonates with Absolute Solipsism, its automatically (can't be different) resulting Narcissism and self-grandiosity, and Messianic ambitions. And its promoting of Moral Relativism that is necessary to justify its egoic behaviours: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism Your case is like a text-book example that couldn't be clearer. So please go on, preach the gospel, and maybe start offering courses in an PhD of Theology of Absolute Solipsism. Ever thought about it? In that sense, move on, rattle the cage, and Bon Voyage! Selling Water by the River PS: And if you ever have a silent moment, how about deeply feeling deeply into your heart and reflecting wether you have unpacked the basic moral intuition in the most deepest and truest way possible for you? Or if some ego and lovely reflections in the pond got in the way? https://integrallife.com/basic-moral-intuition-the-greatest-depth-for-the-greatest-span-2/#:~:text=Wilber contends with his notion,about and care for span.

Yes. On one side, all is mere apperance "imagined" hovering in Infinite Nondual Nothingness, made out of Nothingness/Consciousness as its essence. That becomes very clear when solidity and external-ness is replaced by this mere appearance/brighter/more luminous character of the visual field when Nonduality is in place. Infinite Boundless timeless Consciousness. A very discrete state, in which realizing the Infinite Reality becomes more likely (Crossing Over). When the separate self is fully gone, and Infinite Consciousness becomes fully impersonal. But, one can still talk very well for example "manifests" instead of imagines. Imagining is done by a actor/speaker/subject. Manifestation (the term Wilber uses often) is the same process done, but by Indras Net/Reality. Imagined/manifested as Illusion-Show not by the actor/speaker, but by other/further perspectives of ones True Being. Indras Net. Nondual of course, but NOT in control of the perspective of the separate being. Not the ego is running the show, But certain Universe creating/maintaining perspectives/Holons/Beings. The Buddha in middle of each Buddhafield/Universe, however one wants to call that perspective/entity/being. So "imagine", like you say, can hold a subtle separation. That is exactly what runs through his whole system, including Absolute Solipsism, and especially Infinity of Gods. Selling water by the River

"A quote i read in Leo's blog: The God-Self is not found as a point inside your skull behind your eyes. The God-Self is your entire field of perception. Stop turning your attention inside your skull, rather, put your attention on the entire bubble that is your visual field. That is God! Stop looking for God inside your head or outside your visual field. What is meant by put your attention on the entire bubble that is your visual field like what bubble?" Yes to Mokshas statement Basically confusing God/Absolute with the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness, In case Leo uses the concept/pointer God for Absolute, then the statement above is wrong (or at least incomplete, but tending on the wrong side). If God is used for the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness, it is correct. I leave it up for the reader to decide if the psychdelic path so far made the author of the lines/quote above (its separate self) fully impersonal/fully empty/fully transcended/Nothingness, and really NONDUAL Nothingness/Emptiness being one with every form, or if some lenses/filters are still declaring aspects of the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness as Absolute(s), like separate-self lenses being aware OF any God/Alien/Totality/Infinity of Gods/Bubble visual field) any manifested side of consciousness. Even Absolutes in the Plural form were declared. An oxymoron, if there is any. Nice book on the topic on Awakening/Enlightenment into the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness (partial Enlightenment) and the Full Enlightenment into the unmanifested/fully impersonal/fully empty/Nothingness Side of Infinite Consciousness and the integration of that with the Awakening into the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness is Szyper, Infinite Consciousness That book alone could clear up where the path up the mountain-summit took a little detour with a downwards-slope.... and once the course is reversed, the altimeter-reading begins climbing again, Pointing out the Great Way, Brown, if applied correctly, could boost the ascend like a Falcon 9 rocket, as long as enough good Karma/rocket-fuel is still remaining.... Bon voyage! Selling Water by the River

Hi Fellow Lighter Already very nice and pretty empty. And if you no throw out each and ANY positive description in Nothingness (in case you want to use it as pointer for Absolute Reality), like undistorted (undisturbed) light pure flow of energy Light then you are getting really close to your True Nature. You can only say what it is NOT. Because it is Infinite. not finite a) b) c) ...) . But you never say with a "positive" concept what it IS. Maybe you will find the book of God is Nothingness - Andrew Halaw interesting: "There is only the not-‘that’ That— the Great, Magnificent Void, the womb of all existence. NOTHINGNESS. Bound by neither space nor time, Nothingness is dimension-less, time-less, and form-less. The Void is unborn, unoriginated, unconditioned, and deathless, neither coming nor going, ‘creating’ nor destroying, rewarding nor punishing. It has never set anything in motion nor caused anything to happen. ... Do not look for it with your senses or mind, for the Void is beyond color, sound, smell, taste, touch, form, and thought." all the best & Bon Voyage! Selling Water by the River

Actually, that statement would be the last missing piece in order to provide enough space for the mania of certain egos to roam freely in the (un-) fertile plane of God-sized narcicissm. Undisturbed by each and any conceptual systems (royal charter or not) keeping its insanity in check. Narcis lived long and unhappily ever after.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insanity "Insanity, madness, lunacy, and craziness are behaviors performed by certain abnormal mental or behavioral patterns. Insanity can manifest as violations of societal norms, including a person or persons becoming a danger to themselves or to other people. Conceptually, mental insanity also is associated with the biological phenomenon of contagion (that mental illness is infectious) as in the case of copycat suicides [or here only copycat-Solipsism. At least for now]. In contemporary usage, the term insanity is an informal, un-scientific term denoting "mental instability"; thus, the term insanity defense is the legal definition of mental instability. In medicine, the general term psychosis is used to include the presence of delusions and/or hallucinations in a patient;[1] and psychiatric illness is "psychopathology", not mental insanity.[2]" In English, the word "sane" derives from the Latin adjective sanus meaning "healthy". Juvenal's phrase mens sana in corpore sano is often translated to mean a "healthy mind in a healthy body". From this perspective, insanity can be considered as poor health of the mind, not necessarily of the brain as an organ (although that can affect mental health), but rather refers to defective function of mental processes such as reasoning. Another Latin phrase related to our current concept of sanity is compos mentis ("sound of mind"), and a euphemistic term for insanity is non compos mentis. In law, mens rea means having had criminal intent, or a guilty mind, when the act (actus reus) was committed." Razard, up for the task? Kill the King Buddha on the road? A little revolution against the monarch? The revolution always eats its own children. Ever wondered why there is zero comment from the top of the realm? Because Razard God is imagining Leo. Leo said that himself. So guess what the next move of Razard God would be? End the lovely show and go home? So it ends in, you guessed it, probably banning. One way or the other. And then, having done so, maybe grace another lovely forum with some messianic endeavours? @Razard86 Razard, if you are really faithful for your king, how about insulting somebody in such a way that the guardians of the realm can kick you out of the forum without the king needing to declare your writings as gone pretty far off the deep end heretic? Or any other heavy violation against the forum guidelines? Although, it seems you got a good bonus in violating lots of points in the forum guidelines already, admittingly. Or, how about wising up and revoking? Thought the chances of that are reaaaly low.... @Bazooka Jesus I guess Bazooka Jesus has already booked a seasonal pass localchapter of Spiritualoholics Anonymous,.. Selling Water by the River PS: Rupert Spira on Solipsism "Solipsism is madness often confused in contemporary non-dual circles with Nonduality. Nonduality is saying something very very very different." Does anybody think that gentle being like Rupert says something like madness lightly? Nonduality is similiar to Solipsism that there is only one Consciousness, but with a completely empty IMPERSONAL Infinite Consciousness, the separate self DEAD AND TRANSCENDED. Gone. Nonduality is not the insanity of declaring the ego God. Declaring the ego God is literally the root of all evil. Evil in the meaning of a holon stepping out of its place, putting itself on top of the pyramid, and the whole holarchy getting sick. Not transcend and include, but hijack and go mad... Is it really so complicated? No, it isn't. But true Nonduality/Enlightenment demands a price. "you" must die. Which is not really bad, because all that dies or gets transcended is an illusion: The self-contraction, which causes all the suffering anyway, gets transcended and let go off. Solipsism doesn't demand a price. That is why its easy and attractive for Narcicissm. The easy way up the mountain summit into the darkest pits of the hell of madness. But with a smile from Maya. Or a nice song "Sympathy For The Devil": Pleased to meet you, Hope you guess my name, But what's puzzling you, Is the nature of my game And now Rupert Spira, bringing some clarity and salvation to the topic: Ah, the guy is talking about minds. Yes he does. But in a way that is totally compatible with Infinite Impersonal Consciousness/Nothingness and Nonduality,and "God-Realization" and "its all illusion, God is fooling himself so deeply..." . If one actually reads a book or two or some videos from the Gentleman, before declaring him not awake, that would be pretty clear... Mind=perspective in Indras Net. But according to Rupert when enlightened, IMPERSONAL INFINITE NONDUAL CONSCIOUSNESS. And the fact that "God" fools itself and the illusion goes so deep.... of course! If all is mere manifestation imagined/arising in the totally empty impersonal opening of Infinite Reality, what is EVERY arising? Illusion-stuff of course. Mirage. Nothing else.... n+1. No need for always new awakenings n+1, the "fooling itself" has stopped forever (at least for this life, Brain damage excluded...) . okay, and now the

I see. Below my perspective on that, as you partly already known for sure, since I replied to you in one of these posts. I know, broken record: Good way to "kill/transcend/let go/make subject->object moving in You" anything in the mindstream: Mahamudra, Pointing Out the Great Way, Brown. Including these "anythings": Now I need to take care that I don't sound arrogant at such an existential topic: The "smiles" of Maya protecting her illusions can also take the wrathful/horror-forms like that. feeling of horror is just another arising, its essence empty Nothingness. Water by the River

No, don't think so. He is a genius of sorts, who drove the car up the psychedelic path to as close to the mountain peak as possible, pushing many gas-loads of 5 MeO in the tank. Maybe at some point the engine got a little bit- uhhhh- busted, but no risk no fun. And he seems to be doing fine nowadays. Thank GOD! He saw 95% plus of the Mountain Peak already. That consequently ended up first with the Solipsism-video, and later Infinity of Gods-video. Which is exactly how Infinity seen from separate self remains should look like: An Infinity of Gods. True, but partial, not the end of the story. And some confusions (separate self-elements still projected on Absolute Reality&trip) still well and alive. But nearly up K2, altitude-wise already pretty much in the death-zone, sorts off. Long enough up there, and the separate-self.... Then he also took a little detour to visit the Aliens, which in my humble opinion is just exploring more relative stuff, meandering a path of the mountain on the altitude of Infinity of Gods, or a little bit below. Its a bit sad that the camera didn't capture the pic of the Alien, would have been a lovely picture for the family album. Then he confused the frequent Buddhist half-way-up-the-mountain Enlightenment (so common for example in Buddhism, but everywhere else also) with the full thing, where the half-way-up-the-mountain-scenic drive declares having realized/"seen" Emptiness or Nothingness and being aware of that as final Enlightenment (happens pretty much to everyone, see 3 Pillars of Zen for example, in which still a subtle separate self/transparent nondual witness with some individuality/lenses/separation still active), confusing the being aware OF it with actually becoming that Nothingness as a Deep Identity - or all lenses/filters/identities/separate-self building blocks gone. So no more OF, and nothing that could even think/say OF. The full nondual empty impersonal "thing". The Illusion of the self-contraction dead, gone, finished. Thank God. He intuited correctly the absolutely deep, complex, marvelous and ingenious divine illusion-show-mechanisms (ranging the whole height of the mountain, until its very top) of how "God"/most of Indras Net fools himself and every other sentient being still believing to be separate, and called the understanding of that God-Realization. True, but partial, as long as any separate self still lense/bias still lives and crawls in the Opening of Reality. Because that remaining separate-self-bug IS the Illusion. And compared that to the shallow half-way-up-the-mountain-Enlightenment described above, or the Identity with the manifested mere apperance side of Infinite Consciousness (the halfway-up-the-mountain), with a subtle separate self still alive (see Szyper, Infinite Consiousness for that). These halfway-up-the-mountain-Enlightenment "enlightened" cases are of course still living in the dream, although a bit closer to the mountain summit. and of course having an understanding of how it all can be full/total illusion, Indras Net perfectly fooling itself, is worth a lot compared to any lucid dream of a halfway-up-the-mountain-enlightenment. Because that understanding has a built in FURTHER! And not basking in the sun of the halfway-up-the-mountain resort. What he doesn't yet see , but what I assume he begins to realize, is that once something like Basis Enlightenment (or Full Enlightenment, see link below) can happen, where each and every arising (internal mindstream arising including I-thoughts/I-feeling/or any separate-self building block, AND any external arising (world, visual field) is clearly seen as arising in the Infinite always here Nothingness of Infinite Reality, ones true being, that there is just nothing left that could not be considered as mirage/illusion/show. So the same "God"-Realization, but permanent and full, killing each and every separte self illusion bug. Or smacking it immediately when a bug is left in the shadow, as soon as it crawls out again. And without transfering/projecting any remaining separate-self elements on Infinite Reality. Yours truly admits that it is very difficult to see the gold in the spiritual field (Full Enlightenment, or seeing that any possible arising, n+1, now or in future (including everything of oneself, making oneself fully Nothingness), is just an Illusion, vs. the truckloads of proponents of the Halfway-Up-the-Mountain-Resort-"Enlightenment"-Dream. And that most Awakenings/Enlightenments in the Marketplace (though they are valid Awakenings) are not the final endpoint of the summit. But just the dream becoming more lucid, and its proponent are thinking its already at the peak of the mountain, standing on the little brother peak of the absolute peak, And Maya smilingly holding the shield pointing to that path, stating "Absolute Summit" and guiding the visitor cars to that beautiful resort. And smiling lovingly... or: We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all. - Kalu Rinpoche Now, there is realistic chance that he will see the sign of the path of the transcendence-path of added meditation (combined with psychedelics) and killing every single last separate-self-arisings-bug to get fully empty, and with that fully everything. The Real Deep Identity that we all share: We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all. Kalu Rinpoche The One without a second. Sorry for the repetition. He even wrote recently he has done three hours of meditation, and he refrains a bit from moderating the Spirituality-section of the forum. I previously wrote, the Solipsism-Gladiators are doing quite a show here, of which he has a hard time either approving or disapproving- understandably. Both options are not really good. The path forward: transcend the problem which can't be solved on its own level, step one level higher, and give the right perspective/context on each partial truth of the past, integrating them all into a coherent picture of larger and more encompassing truths, and live happily ever after. And while one is at it, kudos to Ken Wilber for developing such a nice integral framework that provides space&room for all perspectives, (partial-)truths and experiences. No need to have a separate-self-bug arisings that says all wrong/evil, but enough space for the whole Net of Indra. Only One Truth is absolute, all others are either partial and true, or complete & false. And nobody is smart enough to be wrong all the time. Everything contains at least partial truths.... But hey, I am engaging of tabloid press interpreting of the behaviour of the royals, like in UK & Windsor Castle.... . But despite all of that, I try to stay on the lighter and benevolent side of it all... And I agree with Bazooka Jesus, the royals they have in UK are really boring compared to the happenings in our lovely realm: What kind of great and interesting rank and file, governance and royalty. Sorry, of course the other way round. Royalty, governance and rank and file. But honestly! So that would be the 50ct from yours truly on this hell of a show. Maybe even the roalties can grant the lowly rank and file with there presence and maybe even a comment? If not, and still being busy sorting out the thing, that is of course also completely fine. Take your time. The gladiators at the moment fighting the battle in a way that not too many sentient beings with potential will get their Karma damanged, but are delivering and awesome show. And, you know, yours truly got quite robust over the years in viewing every comment arising in "its" visual field as just more illusion-arising, so there is no hang-over from selling crap at the outside or something like that. ItsALLGOODMAN. And in case the Royalty feels intruded by yours truly invading the privacy of the head of state, please issue an verdict, and yours truly will readily revoke, repent, remorse and so on... I wish him good luck on his path, and godspeed, from all my heart! Water by the River @Sincerity Hope the stylistic tone & content of the post is benevolent and respectful enough. Yours truly really tried! If doesn't find the approval of the guardians of the realm, please let me know.

And Wilbers description of the Causal Stages in One Taste: Entering the High Causal: Exactly how long I was Light, I cannot say. How long Form existed, I cannot say. How long I have been neither, I cannot say. On the other side of Light, the Abyss. On the other side of Love, the Abyss. How long, I cannot say. ... And then, the Abyss beyond all beyonds. Some would call it radical Freedom, infinite Release, ultimate Liberation, the great Redemption, boundless Being. I wouldn’t know, for there is no I to know, in any form, sacred or profane, and so there is only this radical Formlessness, which remains its own remark. It is not bliss, it is not God, it is not love. It is not holistic, it is not Goddess, it is not interwoven anything. It is not infinite, it is not eternal, it is not any conception or object or state whatsoever. I-I am not light, am not love, am not spirit, am not bliss. II am not bound, am not free, am not ignorant, am not liberated. But this much can be said: where there is not this Emptiness, there is only suffering. All this I remember, in the school of myself. All this I have seen, in the history of my own discovery. All this I sing of now, to the audience of myself. All this I promise to others, who are the forms of my own slumbering. All this others will also see, as they awaken from their otherness and return their slumbering selves to the Wakefulness that has always existed, undiminished and untorn, in the heart of what they are. Exactly how long I was Light, I cannot say. How long Form existed, I cannot say. How long I have been neither, I cannot say. On the other side of Light, the Abyss. On the other side of Love, the Abyss. How long, I cannot say. But I know I will empty even this Emptiness, and therefore create a Kosmos, and therefore incarnate as the world of Form, and enter with Wakefulness the children of my own Awareness. Exiting High Causal: Around the sea of Emptiness, a faint edge of bliss. From the sea of Emptiness, a flicker of compassion. Subtle illuminations fill the space of awareness, As radiant forms coalesce in consciousness. A world is taking shape, A universe is being born. I-I breathe out the subtlest patterns, Which crystallize into the densest forms, With physical colors, things, objects, processes, That rush upon awareness in the darkness of its night, To arise as glorious sun, radiant reminder of its source, And slumbering earth, abode of the offspring of Spirit. So the bold markings are from me. Breakingthewall, in the descriptions of Frank Yang and Ingram, there is NO Awareness in Cessation. "The Universe just switches off, and reboots". And the "reboot" is interesting, because there all subtle forms come online, the separate-self building blocks, space, change and time, and so on. Like Nothingness, and then yada yada yada. Compare that to Wilber, see bold above. And that is what makes this experience so valueable, because the Infinite Absolute Reality is exactly that: Beyond it all. And the High Causal does exactly that: Kills every last subtle filter/form. Moksha also differentiates between the void/formless state and the Unmanifested Reality, what I and Andrew Halaw would call Nothingness. "But beyond this formless state there is another, unmanifested reality, which is eternal and is not dissolved when the cosmos is destroyed." Selling Water by the River

For the topic of Salvijus and Breakingthewall: Causal States vs. states of void/formlessness and totality of manifestation (Whiteout,Infinity) at any time (low causal). Yours truly is a bit an "Integration aficionado" of different systems, just to get to the deep structures of the different paths up the mountain. Wilbers High Causal is the Abyss of Absolute Nothingness, Cessation, Nirvikalpa. The passing of that often enough opens the door for getting empty enough to maintain constant Nondual Realization in daily life. Or to directly intuit the essence of any manifestation, Nothingness, Infinite Reality. Wilbers Low Causal: The Totality of manifestation (Whiteout,Infinity) at any time (low causal). @Breakingthewall, what the void-state that you describe is I can't tell based just based on your description. It doesn't sound like a black-out like Cessation, doesn't have its effects, and doesn't fit the ladder described above. But the pool of causal states is wide... Descriptions of cessation one can find at Ingram, Thisdell and Frank Yang. Wilber also describes the Whiteout somewhere else, but I don't have that in my files/notes. Here are some quotes and perspectives from Ken Wilbers system on the topic. Wilber normally provides a very good Ontology. Maybe you find that interesting. My personal perspective is on one of my last posts on causal states, which I don't want to repeat here. Excerpt 1: And from Wilber - Sex,Ecology, Spirituality: And what is also very useful: Wilber, Waves, streams, states, and self: An outline of an integral psychology. And Wilber, Religion of the Future. And what both of you probably will really like is Halaw, God is Nothingness, and Wolinsky, "The End of the Game - Deconstructing the Portals to the Absolute". On both books I have written something in this thread: The High Causal States are always easy to spot in descriptions. Passing through these fully empty and impersonal states is in many systems the opening gate to entering the stages Nondual Realization, because states are known where the separate self and any form of Duality just is not. The Nondual Realization/Full Enlightenment (NOT only the Unity with the Visual Field), but also the Impersonal Emptiness of the High Causal States integrated are also easy to spot in any description/system We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all. Kalu Rinpoche Anything from subtle states to low causal states can be quite a Jungle in systems/descriptions which is to be expected, because here the infinite manifestation begins. not only the dimensions/realties experienced can vary, but the interpretation varies with the conceptual system the subject travels... And: Hic sunt dracones Aliens Maybe that is interesting & useful for you. Wilbers ontological system worked very well for me to orient myself in often very differing systems/descriptions. See for example Lex Hixon, Coming Home. The Experience of Enlightenment in Sacred Traditions. The variety of the description of paths and states is vast, and the universal deep structures often hard to spot. Selling Water by the River

Okey, even if we go by your model that we create pictures in infinity. Still. What would be left if you stopped creating pictures if not an empty timeless bottomless nothingness? And my argument that Nothingness cannot be imagined or draw in pictrues or painted is still valid imo. So it's fair to call it a total opposite of imagination as far as I'm concerned.

There's another way of looking that i would propose. "For something not to be, you just have to stop creating it, because everything is your imagination anyways" and if one stops imagining all reality, the void/nothingness is the only option left imo.

@Moksha The way i interpreted what breakingthewall sayed is that the unmanifest is imaginary. And i would propose that that the unmanifest cannot be imaginary. Only the manifest can be imaginary. I don't see any flaw in this logic. And the end of all imagination would naturally result in void/nothingness/cessation/nirodha samapatti. Still don't see any flaw in logic.