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Yes, because an experience insinuates that there's an experiencer. Enlightenment is the recognition that there never was an experiencer from the start of body birth or even before birth for that matter. "There just never was a YOU" The only thing that SEEMS to have an experience, is the conditioned illusion of self. The very energy that labels and judges the experience as good or bad or whatever, isn't actually there! When that illusion is shattered, everything becomes an empty happening. Ground zero it could be called. There's no one left itching or trying to have a good experience over a bad one. What remains is just whatever is happening without the conditioned illusion of self labeling or judging apparent reality as this or that; good vs bad ect... And that sticky illusion of self can never accept or grasp this because it's like illusion suicide. But see illusions cannot die because they were never real from the start. It's indescribable because it's the end of the conditioned descriptions. It's not an experience because it's the end of the experiencer which never existed anyways! In other words, bodily conditioning is like a mask over an empty and meaningless reality. It sounds horrific to the self illusion, but it's actually the freedom longed for by nobody 🤣 ❤️

It's ultimately not different from a heroin addiction. You want to live in a constant extremely positive state, and that ends up ruining your natural reward system and sober life. Sober life can never feel as good as a heroin high. At least not without decades of development. Death can come in multiple ways: Suicide Careless accident Delusional thinking Overdose Disillusionment with human life Losing your mind / insanity

I understand so in short you neglect your material life on this earth. You are not as motivated because reward from constantly being high is good enough to make you satisfied with life. You don't have a feeling of change anymore. But you need to change and do stuff because survival is still at play, although you can override it from time to time with being high. I hope that's what you mean although I don't understand how it can lead to suicide and death. Because you think after death you get instant infinite love? Or because you neglected your life so hard that your relationship, your finance and physical health is broken beyond repair.

Many, many ways. The constant use of psychedelics will make you lose touch with reality, make you ungrounded, make you weak and avoidant of hard work, ruin your motivation for business and personal development, make you irresponsible, leads to spiritual bypassing, will ruin your physical health, will cause physical injury, and eventually suicide or death. As I said in my traps video, unsustainable lifestyles are a trap. You cannot keep being constantly intoxicated. This will absolutely destroy your life. Stop bullshitting yourselves about this. Just because I speak highly of psychedelics does not mean I condone such abuse of them. Many of you guys will ruin your lives if you don't wise up and get back to the fundamentals of hard work.

I agree with most of what you said, but this ICC stuff is mostly political theater. We get it, everyone hates Israel. Now what have you achieved? Is international isolation going to make Israel commit suicide and cede the land to the Palestinians? Of course not. What's more likely is that isolation makes nations more aggressive, as we've seen throughout history. The U.S. is both Israel's greatest ally and the only one capable of tempering them and reigning them in. It's a double edged sword. Without the link to the U.S. they'd just be another nation trampling a group of people whom no one cares about on a scale much greater than Israel. Which is what is happening all over the world right now. It's clear new leadership is needed on both sides, and with that there is the possibility for renewed hope. The longer this drags without a push for statehood, the worse it will become.

@Leo Gura Leo but what I just remembered now is that hamas has always increased the terror just after it smelled a breakthrough in the negotations between Israelis and Palestinians. A very famous example is Oslo agreement in 1993 when after it has been signed, a series of terrible suicide terror attacks has started as an attempt to fail it. Paradoxically, the most extreme parts of the Palestinians aren't interested in any of the oppression issues. Because if they were, they wouldn't try to fail the negotiations. The "right-wing" of the Palestinians try similarily to the right wing of Israel to fail any negotiation and a chance to achieve a deal. So according to this, hamas is this right wing of the Palestinian side, who don't want anything other the total annihilation of Israel, and the occupation of the West Bank as it sees in 1967 doesn't matter to him at all, but 1948 is.

@Clarence That’s tough sorry to hear that man I completely understand the burden that our elderly relatives can create for us. The neo liberal capitalist system does not provide much of a collective responsibility to the elderly so we can only do what we can whilst having to survive ourselves Do not feel bad that you want to leave that situation. It is massively holding your life back and of course you will want to get out. The truth is either your grandmother is really not in her normal headspace or is being very selfish - but don’t blame her for that. my grandfather has been a real burden for my dad. He is in a care home now but the amount of support he felt he had to provide him along with my grandmother. Both basically fucked and went down hill in the worst way. Parkinson’s, sepsis not good. You gotta help them but they wouldn’t even help my dad by making the support situation more tenable by moving closer so less travel time - this was not right. My grandfather has this expectation that he should be there for everything. This is wrong actually. You can support them but there is a limit to that Tbh it is just selfish. You are at the end of your life and your children are still living theirs. You should never feel like you have to help out of obligation but because you genuinely want to because the burden is very real. Honestly if I had kids I’d never want to put them or my grandkids through that. They have a life to lead and my body is on its way out. Personally if I had dementia, before losing it completely I’d rather have voluntary suicide. It would be the best way to go not just for you personally but for your relatives. Of course I’d like to think my kids would support me when I get old obviously but I would never expect them to be there for every beck and call to the point that it massively disrupts their lives. That’s just not fair I think this is a major issue. What I have just said there is extremely controversial though it shouldn’t be. We can only do what we can but don’t let this hold your life back. You cannot be responsible when you are young and have a life to lead Think about what the Buddha did. He did something very selfish by leaving his wife and kids needing to find an answer to suffering. He knew he could not do this in the situation he was in. Sometimes we have to be selfish to better served others in the future rather than becoming diminished. I would suggest finding a middle ground if you can but first and foremost don’t feel guilty for how you feel. That situation is a bitch and you are young

The next trap is staying with a man after he verbally abuses you. If a man is verbally abusive to you, that's it. It's over. You're not going to fix that relationship. So one of the things that you do as you mature and you wise up is that you get wise about what will and won't work in a relationship, and then you stop having fantasies and kind of bullshitting yourself about relationships that won't work. You just see it. Well, you know, this person's been verbally abusive to me a couple of times, it's over. It's not going to work. Whereas if you're young and naive, you can start to think like, well, but my feelings for him will make us work it out. Our love is so strong, we can work past that. It's like, no, you're not going to work past that. Another trap is getting into a romantic relationship with a mentally ill person. Now, look, this is difficult because plenty of people who watch my content suffer from mental illness, and I'm not trying to demean people with mental illness and difficulties in that regard, but also, we have to be honest. Being in romantic relationships with people who have schizophrenia or BPD or bipolar disorder, I mean, this can be a nightmare. It can be a nightmare. It can be one of the biggest traps of your life, marrying such a person, having children with such a person. That doesn't mean these people are bad or there's anything wrong with them per se. It's just that, like, being in romantic relationships with people who have these kinds of conditions, I mean, it's going to be real difficult to make that work. I'm not saying you can't make that work. I'm sure there's examples where people with these kinds of conditions do find love and it works for them. But, like, realistically, there's going to be so many problems there. Just like, again, it's just about, I'm just trying to caution you about being realistic about what you're getting yourself into. Another trap here is investing yourself completely into a relationship. Your relationship should not be the thing that completes you. That's a mistake because a person can always leave you, and then what are you going to be? And then will you be able to relate properly with that other person if you're always afraid that they're going to leave you because you are so completely invested in the relationship that if they leave you, to you, that's like death. This could actually lead to suicide. A lot of people commit suicide this way because they're so overly invested in a relationship. They got nothing else going for them in their life. They're not self-actualizing. They're not developing their career, their business, and other stuff like that, their spiritual connection to reality, that when somebody leaves them, their whole world collapses. Me, I've developed such a rich life living alone so long that if I get into a relationship and then I lose the relationship, it hurts. It can really hurt for a few weeks, for a month. It can hurt like a [expletive]. But then after that, it's kind of amazing. Like, I'm like, "Wow, it's like I awoke from a dream." And it's like, whether that person is in my life or not in my life, it doesn't impact how I feel about my life almost at all. I'm as happy as I ever was. Like, my satisfaction does not depend upon any person in my life. And that's because I've kind of designed it that way. Of course, there's sort of an opposite problem is that you can get too independent. And in fact, I've fallen into this problem is that I'm too much of a loner. I'm too independent. I'm too disconnected from people to the point where then I struggle in intimate relationships to then, of course, to commit to those relationships because it's the opposite sort of problem. So that's a double-sided trap right there. You've got to watch out for. Get the balance right on that. Of course, getting married to the wrong person can be a huge trap. Having children with the wrong person can be a huge trap. Engaging in criminal behavior, that's an obvious trap. And the trap of criminal behavior is that usually when you do it the first time, you never get caught. And in fact, you can do criminal behavior 10, 20 times and never get caught. You can go shoplifting 20 times and never get caught. And most likely, you'll get away with it. But then that 21st time, you get caught, and your whole life is destroyed. The next trap is getting physically violent. Violence is always a trap because violence begets violence. And then that comes with criminal charges and that comes with regret and that comes with retribution and negative emotions and drama. You don't want this in your life. And sometimes you can be driven to such a rage that you just want to get violent, especially if you're faced with some sort of very unfair situation. If you're treated very unfairly and you're at your wit's end and have no other recourse, eventually you're going to lash out in violence. But you have to watch out and prevent yourself from doing that because that can be very dangerous. Even just one time of that can be very dangerous. Could ruin your whole life. Next is expecting spiritual gurus to be perfect. Most of them aren't. Next is the trap of thinking that enlightenment will be a cure-all for all of your low development issues, for your immaturity, for your shadow, for your survival issues, for your money problems. Enlightenment is not going to fix these for you. So the fantasy of enlightenment, that's a huge trap. There's a lot. A whole episode could be made about just the fantasies of enlightenment and awakening. Pursuing spirituality if you're too young without mastering the basics of survival, this is a big trap that I've pointed out many times to you guys already. Sometimes I even think that even at my age— I'm almost 40 now—even at my age, like, I sometimes regret getting into spirituality this young because I think that, like, really, I still during my young years—you know, during my 30s, 40s, even 50s—I should be doing all the active stuff, the stuff that takes a lot of energy, that takes all of my best health, and then later when I'm in my 60s and later, if I'm still kicking, then, um, that's where I should be sitting on the couch all day meditating. That's really the proper order of things. So, you know, be careful if you're in your 20s especially or even in your teens getting too heavy into philosophy and spirituality, this kind of sedentary where you're meditating and contemplating but you're not actually participating and engaging with life, you're not engaging in relationships, you're not engaging in business, you're not engaging in money-making, you're not engaging in socialization. This is a big mistake, which is not to say you should completely ignore spirituality, but like, you gotta kind of think long term and plan out your life because when you're going to get older, like I'm getting older now, I have less energy, I have less health, I'm less able to socialize, I'm less able to do active stuff. And it's only going to get worse, right? So, like, your youth is so precious, you need to really live it up, have the sex, go have fun, do the partying, go out there, work hard on your business, this kind of stuff, which is going to get harder to do when you get older because you're just not going to have the energy and the health for it. I'm telling you. And then, once your health gets worse, then you can sit and meditate all day, once you have a pile of money, you know, pile of money, you've had all the sex so you don't need sex anymore, you're not an animal, you've done all the socializing so you're happy with that, you don't need to go to parties anymore, you know, get that stuff out of your system. Use your 20s and 30s to get all that stuff out of your system so that by the time you're 40 or 50 now, you can just chill out and enjoy life without needing to have regrets about like, "Oh, well, I wish I had some more sex" or "I wish I went to more parties" and now I'm too old for that kind of thing. You want to avoid those regrets. The next trap is expecting one set of teachings to be all that you need. No one set of teachings will be enough for you. You need a lot more than that to figure out life. The next trap is treating awakening as a binary thing: either you're awake or you're not awake, on or off. No, that's not how consciousness works. Treating all spiritual teachings as the same, all the different schools of teachings, the Buddhists and the Hindus, and they're all talking about the same thing, and Leo's talking about the same thing, no, we're not all talking about the same thing. Next is making yourself too busy. You need downtime to integrate and contemplate. You need actually more downtime than you think. It would be nice to have at least an hour a day to yourself where you just sit and contemplate all the stuff that happened to you throughout the day.

The next trap is staying with a man after he verbally abuses you. If a man is verbally abusive to you, that's it. It's over. You're not going to fix that relationship. So one of the things that you do as you mature and you wise up is that you get wise about what will and won't work in a relationship, and then you stop having fantasies and kind of bullshitting yourself about relationships that won't work. You just see it. Well, you know, this person's been verbally abusive to me a couple of times, it's over. It's not going to work. Whereas if you're young and naive, you can start to think like, well, but my feelings for him will make us work it out. Our love is so strong, we can work past that. It's like, no, you're not going to work past that. Another trap is getting into a romantic relationship with a mentally ill person. Now, look, this is difficult because plenty of people who watch my content suffer from mental illness, and I'm not trying to demean people with mental illness and difficulties in that regard, but also, we have to be honest. Being in romantic relationships with people who have schizophrenia or BPD or bipolar disorder, I mean, this can be a nightmare. It can be a nightmare. It can be one of the biggest traps of your life, marrying such a person, having children with such a person. That doesn't mean these people are bad or there's anything wrong with them per se. It's just that, like, being in romantic relationships with people who have these kinds of conditions, I mean, it's going to be real difficult to make that work. I'm not saying you can't make that work. I'm sure there's examples where people with these kinds of conditions do find love and it works for them. But, like, realistically, there's going to be so many problems there. Just like, again, it's just about, I'm just trying to caution you about being realistic about what you're getting yourself into. Another trap here is investing yourself completely into a relationship. Your relationship should not be the thing that completes you. That's a mistake because a person can always leave you, and then what are you going to be? And then will you be able to relate properly with that other person if you're always afraid that they're going to leave you because you are so completely invested in the relationship that if they leave you, to you, that's like death. This could actually lead to suicide. A lot of people commit suicide this way because they're so overly invested in a relationship. They got nothing else going for them in their life. They're not self-actualizing. They're not developing their career, their business, and other stuff like that, their spiritual connection to reality, that when somebody leaves them, their whole world collapses. Me, I've developed such a rich life living alone so long that if I get into a relationship and then I lose the relationship, it hurts. It can really hurt for a few weeks, for a month. It can hurt like a [expletive]. But then after that, it's kind of amazing. Like, I'm like, "Wow, it's like I awoke from a dream." And it's like, whether that person is in my life or not in my life, it doesn't impact how I feel about my life almost at all. I'm as happy as I ever was. Like, my satisfaction does not depend upon any person in my life. And that's because I've kind of designed it that way. Of course, there's sort of an opposite problem is that you can get too independent. And in fact, I've fallen into this problem is that I'm too much of a loner. I'm too independent. I'm too disconnected from people to the point where then I struggle in intimate relationships to then, of course, to commit to those relationships because it's the opposite sort of problem. So that's a double-sided trap right there. You've got to watch out for. Get the balance right on that. Of course, getting married to the wrong person can be a huge trap. Having children with the wrong person can be a huge trap. Engaging in criminal behavior, that's an obvious trap. And the trap of criminal behavior is that usually when you do it the first time, you never get caught. And in fact, you can do criminal behavior 10, 20 times and never get caught. You can go shoplifting 20 times and never get caught. And most likely, you'll get away with it. But then that 21st time, you get caught, and your whole life is destroyed. The next trap is getting physically violent. Violence is always a trap because violence begets violence. And then that comes with criminal charges and that comes with regret and that comes with retribution and negative emotions and drama. You don't want this in your life. And sometimes you can be driven to such a rage that you just want to get violent, especially if you're faced with some sort of very unfair situation. If you're treated very unfairly and you're at your wit's end and have no other recourse, eventually you're going to lash out in violence. But you have to watch out and prevent yourself from doing that because that can be very dangerous. Even just one time of that can be very dangerous. Could ruin your whole life. Next is expecting spiritual gurus to be perfect. Most of them aren't. Next is the trap of thinking that enlightenment will be a cure-all for all of your low development issues, for your immaturity, for your shadow, for your survival issues, for your money problems. Enlightenment is not going to fix these for you. So the fantasy of enlightenment, that's a huge trap. There's a lot. A whole episode could be made about just the fantasies of enlightenment and awakening. Pursuing spirituality if you're too young without mastering the basics of survival, this is a big trap that I've pointed out many times to you guys already. Sometimes I even think that even at my age— I'm almost 40 now—even at my age, like, I sometimes regret getting into spirituality this young because I think that, like, really, I still during my young years—you know, during my 30s, 40s, even 50s—I should be doing all the active stuff, the stuff that takes a lot of energy, that takes all of my best health, and then later when I'm in my 60s and later, if I'm still kicking, then, um, that's where I should be sitting on the couch all day meditating. That's really the proper order of things. So, you know, be careful if you're in your 20s especially or even in your teens getting too heavy into philosophy and spirituality, this kind of sedentary where you're meditating and contemplating but you're not actually participating and engaging with life, you're not engaging in relationships, you're not engaging in business, you're not engaging in money-making, you're not engaging in socialization. This is a big mistake, which is not to say you should completely ignore spirituality, but like, you gotta kind of think long term and plan out your life because when you're going to get older, like I'm getting older now, I have less energy, I have less health, I'm less able to socialize, I'm less able to do active stuff. And it's only going to get worse, right? So, like, your youth is so precious, you need to really live it up, have the sex, go have fun, do the partying, go out there, work hard on your business, this kind of stuff, which is going to get harder to do when you get older because you're just not going to have the energy and the health for it. I'm telling you. And then, once your health gets worse, then you can sit and meditate all day, once you have a pile of money, you know, pile of money, you've had all the sex so you don't need sex anymore, you're not an animal, you've done all the socializing so you're happy with that, you don't need to go to parties anymore, you know, get that stuff out of your system. Use your 20s and 30s to get all that stuff out of your system so that by the time you're 40 or 50 now, you can just chill out and enjoy life without needing to have regrets about like, "Oh, well, I wish I had some more sex" or "I wish I went to more parties" and now I'm too old for that kind of thing. You want to avoid those regrets. The next trap is expecting one set of teachings to be all that you need. No one set of teachings will be enough for you. You need a lot more than that to figure out life. The next trap is treating awakening as a binary thing: either you're awake or you're not awake, on or off. No, that's not how consciousness works. Treating all spiritual teachings as the same, all the different schools of teachings, the Buddhists and the Hindus, and they're all talking about the same thing, and Leo's talking about the same thing, no, we're not all talking about the same thing. Next is making yourself too busy. You need downtime to integrate and contemplate. You need actually more downtime than you think. It would be nice to have at least an hour a day to yourself where you just sit and contemplate all the stuff that happened to you throughout the day.

It's a spiritual problem (but I understand why people think it's biological, in the materialist paradigm, it's simply not an adequate explanation). The Ego at its full swing literally wants to kill people like me with light and not go along with their deep corrupted mind. And it doesn't have to be literal murder though that could also be, but other ways like making it almost impossible for you to make money and survive in this world, socially isolate you, or psychologically abuse you so much that you either commit suicide or go insane, or all of the above. There is a "spiritual warfare" happening just almost nobody is picking this up.

Ukrainian men are all doomed to die in this war. If it was an actual invader that could be pushed off perhaps if you identified more with the people and land that were being attacked than yourself then it would make logical sense for you to die for them. From my research of the conflict though it's based on extremely convoluted geopolitical games and being just a grunt on the front lines is basically suicide for both parties so to call that a duty seems pretty crazy to me.

On the weekend I was completely alone. I cleaned, meditated and calmed my symptoms right down. I managed to get my mind reasonably calm, and listened to some ambient music, and some of the old positive feelings at times came back Inner peace and zen + Ambience can be so beautiful sometimes. It takes the mind to incredible places. Makes me wonder if the greatest forms of beauty come from within the mind rather than in the senses. I'm going to create a finalized plan and list of things to do this week, then next week I'm just going to take completely off and chill. I will rest in nature and meditation, and all this will lead up to next weekend and I can hopefully enjoy the boxing and the end of the football season. After this I'm probably going back to work. I'm not going to spend any more time researching this for a while and just stick to following a list of practical things to do and see what happens. Still having thoughts of suicide. It is a back up plan if all else fails. I know how I'd spend my final days. But I don't want to die, I want to get better. Lets go dude.

This topic is very abused and commercialized. But I have two things to say: - Don't welcome, don't try to seek out people who died by suicide (they took their life because they wanted to) because these souls are fragmented and restless and are going to be for quite some time; - I also feel that you should probably avoid (living) people who do occult and cause harm to other people, just for some safety.

I hope you find Love before you commit suicide.

I know if I was going to commit suicide I wouldn't be starting a forum thread about it. I wouldn't be responding with laughter to silly commentary. I wouldn't be posting cartoon videos and turning this decision into a fiasco and dramatic play and waiting around for responses to the threat of ending my life like a sequel for my dramatic exit. Then again, who knows , this is Absolute Infinity where everything's included and nothing's excluded, so welcome to the party. Buckle up and enjoy the ride. The ride that never ends.

Lol committing suicide for economic reason is retarded. commiting suicide for broken mind and health is exquisite

Committing suicide for anything other than economic reasons is just retarded, and a waste of life you could be enjoying. The point of it all is to actually let go of your sense of separate ego identity, and let your true self embody your body while still alive and actively participating within the human dream.

@- Adam - All of this is anwsered in the " start here" section of the ACC group. I can't explain every single thing to you personally as it time consuming. I can still answer things here and there. Careful with bulk form ALA. If you accidentally breathe in the fumes it can redistribute heavy metals around your body . There is one dude that committed suicide because of how bad it f*d him up, it's the first video in my journal. Be sure to wear a high quality mask. Chelators expire relatively quickly so keep that in mind when buying a lot of them. Look up FB group for storing options. I lost hundreds not knowing this. There is a video on how to DIY your own capsules on the FB group, it's around the final 2 pages of my journal. You need a precise micro scale and make sure each pill has the same amount of ALA not to accidentally fluctuate chelator blood levels which would make your chelation experience worse. It's little hassle but it cuts down the cost of chelation by X3 if not more. And it's not that complicated. You absolutely supplement the same amount on and off round. This is important, otherwise you may crash during the recovery phase. Doses are at the beginning of my journal. They recommend you take the core 4 for 2 weeks before starting chelation. Introduce supplements one by one and see how you react to them. Adrenal cortex EXTRACT is very effective at supporting adrenals for me, and they recommend it as a 5th core supplement, so consider stacking up on that. Other than that, look into thyroid support, liver support and adrenal support. It's all on the FB group or my journal. "Taking pills all the time" is fine as long as you don't use shady low quality no brand supplements. If say you can comfortably take two dozen supplements daily or more. High doses of vit C work very well on me. I take up to 8g per day. Find your own doses ( I take sodium ascorbate as it's not acidic) For doses and what chelators, see picture above. I've done 25 MG dmsa every 3 hours for 4 days. Now I'm testing same dose of just ALA. larger doses or longer rounds than that gave me severe fatigue ( adrenal crash, for up to a week ) and yellow feces ( sign of insufficient liver support, poor bile flow.) They recommend 10 rounds just DMSA before introducing ALA. I haven't looked into dmps a lot personally. For suplements just start with the minimum that works. What I use: Liver support ( artichoke extract, milk thistle extract), doses and links to what I purchased on my journal (not affiliated) Adrenal support: Thorne Adrenal cortex extract. Works wonders. " Adrenal cocktail" : pinch of cream of tartar ( it's potassium, very care not overdoing it ) , Himalayan salt and ascorbic acid diluted in water to replenish electrolytes Iodine for thyroid support Optional , that I picked, mentioned by Andy: Vit A, high quality molecularly distilled omega 3, L- thyrosine, selenomethionine ( no more than one pill split in two , 12 hours apart, i believe its 200mcg per pill. It works good off round to deal with redistributiom symptoms as it blocks mercury from being reabsorbed)

Before judging this thread being irresponsible or and immature. Take a moment to really understand my project: basically I fucked up in this life. I had trouble from 14 to 18 and ended up with fatigue chronic and bipolar disorder but I did well att school because I put all my eggs into studying. Anyway after when a gf entered my life the first time, that s here I understood how fucked up I was. I squander the relationship from a to z. The girl was totally in Love with me. It was easier to not screw than to screw but I like challenges! anyway I was very serious prepararing ingenireeng school and made lots of sports from 19 to 22 but at 22 I discoverd Leo so of course at 23 I started my psychedelics journey or should I say my shroom journey. One year was enough to put me into psych ward were my body mind has been forsaken forever. I’ve been in a very very very dark place for 4years. But enough is enough, I won’t carry all that unconsciousness/ shiet my all life. I wanna die with a mignimum of dignity and the more I wait the more my dignity decrease. Anyway, I ll find a way to kill myself and to know what there is after you kill yourself !! I’m so excited for this adventure. Sorry for the excitements of this post I took to many xanax before writing. That shit is gooooood. I hope some people will understand that this surfing ntil suicide attitude is my best possible attitude regarding now. I have nothing to bring to anyone, I am a leash to my wonderful family. I just can’t wait to put a bullet between my two eyes. plz don’t judge. It’s actually a very serious topic. I don’t recommand that to anyone unless you are in a similar situation where you are carrying an enormous amount of shiets. I’ll of course write loving letters to all people I love and once I will become a demon if god does not let me pass to Heaven I’ll send all that touch my family in hell. kiss kiss

And why is life better than death? Still doesn't answer the question. After along time experiencing pain and depression over and over again for many years and also trying to suicide I realise that sometimes we don't want to die..it's more like we want to end the pain. So pain is worse than death .therefore sometimes death is better than living a miserable life .and sometimes life is very fucking paniful . Your digestive disease is a lil taste . Some people like @Buba got it really fucked up.

One thing that needs to be understood is that, much like with pedophelia, if you suffer from suicide it is profoundly difficult to talk to anyone about it. It is truly taboo and this means that it is so much more difficult to help people with it. People wish they could just throw the therapists at all the mentally ill people and viola, no more suicide. But there is a far deeper problem going on here that we are completely ignorant of because of this taboo, because nobody is really allowed to actually talk about it, not in an honest way. Therapists won't solve this issue because it is systemic. You can try to hire more police officers, but if your society is corrupt to the core, you will not prevent criminality. You can try to catch as many child predators as you want, they will keep coming if the underlying problem here is not resolved. Stigmatization of these issues makes it impossible for us to resolve them. This is essential to understand. Our discomfort, immaturity and inability to engage with these with an open mind is what is allowing for the child abuse, for the suicide, and for all the other ills, to continue. Really, suicide in most cases is a failure of our collective responsibility. And people talking about it openly are a reminder, sometimes a very personal one, of that failure. But us making this a taboo won't suddenly make people any less hopeless.

I don't feel comfortable to go into detail on some of the points because I don't think that's the responsible thing to do in the context of this forum. But beyond that, I want to encourage people to think about this more deeply themselves. In general, when it comes to autonomy vs harm-prevention, people tend to focus either on one or the other. Freedom, in this case human autonomy, has an essential function to evolution. It confronts us, fundamentally, with aspects of our own human nature that we, prior to the freedom, had no opportunity to truly explore. This exploration will always involve mistakes and suffering, but it will expand our consciousness. In this case it very much confronts us with what it means that there are people who want to kill themselves, and who can do so any time they want. You have to consider that in this case, the person already has the autonomy to do what they seek to do. In a way this is just a symbol for how helpless we as a society to truly prevent people from doing so. It's easier to brush it all under the rug when it is happening unofficially. If people we truly free to kill themselves, maybe we would actually have to start caring about each other more than we currently do. Maybe we would need to fundamentally change how we coexist in society. I think this is mainly a discussion about whether or not suicide ought to be taboo, even if people are not aware of it. But a taboo in many ways prevents us from looking at the situation honestly and ever being able to find a solution that will actually work. We can observe the same with child predation and incest.

I know you guys hijacked the thread for petty and childish drama, as tends to happen, but I still want to respond to the topic at hand. I think as society becomes more sophisticated and mature, freedoms will expand. A fully conscious and mature civilization would in theory require no regulations as to what individuals can do with themselves and to each other. This cannot be fathomed because of how profoundly immature our society still is. But remember, it was not that long ago when civilizations had to mandate even the position in which you could have sex in, so that you wouldn't become a horny bastard who ruined society and got everyone enslaved by the tribe next door. The kind of freedoms we are given require of us greater responsibility, which requires greater consciousness and maturity. As far as euthanasia for mental diseases goes, I think people underestimate how significant the suffering from mental diseases can be, and how little we have to actually treat some of these conditions. The mind can create any type of hell, ideally, if we have systems to prevent individuals from simply committing suicide (which seems to be the case in the netherlands despite the attempt to smear the whole thing by the media) in situations that might be fixable, there is nothing that makes this different from someone who suffers from some physical condition that causes immeasurable pain and cannot be treated. But nonetheless, it is a complex ethical issue. I want to urge people to actually investigate the reasoning behind permitting such things with an open and mature mind. I also want to point out that these types of topics tend to evoke strong emotions in us, that make us unable to consciously engage with the substance at hand, and makes us reactive rather than open-minded. I think there is something that was given little importance in this discussion so far that in general is overlooked when it comes to controversial topics like these, and that is the value of autonomy. While it is true that certain freedoms will lead to negative consequences, it is also true that limiting freedoms means violating fundamental human autonomy and will. While harm reduction principles are important to consider, we must weigh them against the principles of liberty and dignity. Not allowing this means that you will inevitably violate someones autonomy, and not someone who was simply irrational and therefore not functionally autonomous. You will condemn such individuals to an undignified death or to a life of unbarable suffering. Or simply to prevent them from making the choice of ending their life. It's easy to ignore this, to not be aware of it, to only see the potential harms from this, which are certainly present. But if we do not recognize this reality, we will not be able to actually contend with the issue at hand. In the end, the more pressing manner is for us to find a way of living and coexisting such that we don't have so many people who feel hopeless in life, such that they want to kill themselves.

Does no one here remember this happening?? A member committed suicide here a handful of years ago.... Taking direct responsibility for people is not something which should be done automatically nor lightly. Having and developing general empathy, within your means as best as humanly possible... that is a separate issue.

Israel is not improving its survival. https://web.archive.org/web/20230521065233/https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/editorial/2023-05-20/ty-article/.premium/israels-path-to-national-suicide/00000188-3ad4-d7fa-a1dc-badff8b80000 https://archive.nytimes.com/krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/24/the-crisis-of-zionism/