DocWatts

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  1. Haven't seen nearly as many threads for the Big Five as I have for other horizontal models such as Myer-Briggs, so I thought it might be interesting to start a thread where we can post our results. The personality traits being measured by this model are: Openness Conscientiousness Extraversion Agreeableness Neuroticism Here's a link to the test: https://www.truity.com/test/big-five-personality-test And my results:
  2. Then extrapolate this principal as the rich being able to isolate themselves in this way from virtually every systemic problem faced by the larger society, and it's no surprise that institutions within the US are as dysfunctional as they are. While I think that fears of an imminent social collapse to be vastly overblown, I do find it unsettling to see several longstanding systemic problems within the US reflected in case studies of societies which have collapsed (thinking in particular of the work of Jared Diamond who's written extensively in this topic).
  3. @BenG I think it's important to be able to make a distinction between people who cynically use this issue to exploit cultural divisions for the purposes of amassing wealth and political power, and the vast bulk of SD-Blue level people who are prone to being manipulated through emotionally charged issues. It's not that the latter aren't sincere in their beliefs, it's more that thier political positions aren't clearly thought out. Internal consistency simply isn't a priority for many of these people. Indeed, it seems like a truism that people at later developmental stages can have difficulty even grasping that inconsistent and contradictory beliefs can be sincerely held. It's important to realize that generally speaking SD-Blue simply isn't at a developmental stage where deconstruction of one's worldviews and beliefs is something that's palatable; indeed thinking through the implications of one's beliefs is deeply threatening to the ego for people at this Stage. Political and ethical decisions are more about identification with one's Tribe than it is about having any sort of consistent or coherent worldview. There's a reason why 'my country right or wrong' is most prevalent at this stage.
  4. Weird thing is that the US does have a terrible form of pseudo universal health care: Emergency Room visits. By law hospitals have to treat someone with a medical emergency regardless of their ability to pay. What ends up happening in practice is that the hospital will give a hypothetical uninsured person enough care to leave the hospital without dropping dead in the street, then send them a $50,000 bill that they know full well they'll never be able to pay. The person will either end up negotiating for a lower (but still outrageous) sum, be hounded by collection agencies for years, or end up having to declare bankruptcy. The Hospital will end up writing them off as a Bad Debt, and pass the costs on to people who actually do have Insurance. Note that this pseudo-system doesn't cover common sense things like preventative care, doctors visits, or any prescription/psychiatric medication that person may require. Runaway medical costs in the US are a direct and deliberate consequence of for-profit medical businesses (hospitals and pharmaceutical companies) having easy access to vast sums of money from privatized Medical Insurance. The dynamics are somewhat similar to vast sums of Federally backed Student Loans driving up the cost of College Education in the States (of course there are other factors at play as well). There is no good faith way to defend the current system in the US. The people who do so are either benefitting personally from runaway healthcare inflation, are rich enough to isolate themselves from the problems of the current system, or are ignorant people who have been relentlessly propagandized by decades of misinformation and scare tactics from vested interests.
  5. America has the capacity to fund some of the most generous social programs in the world if it were willing and able to tax the immense amount of wealth that's concentrated in the hands of a tiny oligarchic elite, and if it were willing to shift its spending priorities away from maintaining a useless military empire and subsidizing multinational corporations. Of course all of that would entail America actually operating as a healthy (rather than as a partial and faltering) democracy. It would also require a level of development and social solidarity among the US population that just doesn't exist at this time.
  6. At SD-Blue where the vast majority of this hysteria is taking place, people are at a level of development where the Folk Theory of Essences is still deeply rooted in their psyche. Which feeds in to the Black and White thinking at this level (people are either good or bad, someone is either a man or a woman, etc), which in turn makes them highly susceptible to propaganda that a medical procedure to abort an 11 week old fetus is the same as murdering a baby. Because the Folk Theory of Essences doesn't allow for any gradation or nuance, something either is a baby or it isn't. When they're outraged about this issue, they're not envisioning a bundle of cells the size of a lima bean without a central nervous system, but their two year old granddaughter. The emotional reaction isn't dissimilar to the way we'd react if we saw someone kicking a puppy. Then add to this punitive attitudes towards sex and towards women at this stage of development, where pregnancy when someone isn't ready for it is a moral failure and people are expected to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. Which is enough to explain why most of these people only care up until the point that the baby is pushed out of a woman's body, and are generally disinterested in funding things like healthcare, education, and anti-poverty programs for that baby after it's born.
  7. By this I mean that its strength is as a sociological model which shines light on how meta-ideologies arise, and come in to conflict with one another. The depth and complexity of how a specific individual relates to their worldview isn't something that the model tracks (nor was it intended to). For example, someone like Marcus Aurelius or Plato were very likely at a level of depth and complexity far beyond the most advanced stage of their era, which was SD-Blue. A church going grandma in Louisiana who doesn't think very deeply about the ethical, political, or spritual implications of the worldview she was indoctrinated with from a young age is also likely Blue. To expound on that, if someone is at a level of depth and complexity above their SD-Stage we would expect thier understanding of the meta-ideology to be more explicit, while someone at a depth and complexity below their SD-Stage would understand thier meta-ideology in a very flattened, implicit way. The only distinction that Spiral Dynamics would be able to make is whether or not a particular manifestation of a given stage is 'Healthy' or 'Unhealthy'. It also doesn't give us any method for how to weight different lines of development which can all be at different levels (such moral development, spiritual development, relationship development etc.) when trying arrive at a rough aggregate or 'average' for an individual. If a person is roughly at Green in their politics, Blue in their intimidate relationships, and Orange in their views on Spirituality, is there anything holistic we can say about that person by using Spiral Dynamics? Compare Spiral Dynamics to Susanne Cook Grueter's model of Ego Development, and you'll see that the latter is much richer and more holistic model for individual development. As a sociological model Spiral Dynamics is great. As an individual development model, there are better alternatives.
  8. Thanks for the share! Looking forward to reading through this more thoroughly when I have a bit of time on my hands, but this does seem to be a much better model for individual development than trying to stretch Spiral Dynamics for that purpose. Going from Leo's video on Susanne Cook-Grueter, I'd say I resonate most strongly with the Strategist stage, with perhaps with a very slight nudge in the direction of the Construct Aware stage as I continue to explore spirituality (closer to secular Buddhism than what Leo teaches). Perhaps in another ten years... 😉
  9. From my own vantage point, I've found that Spiral Dynamics is much better used as a sociological model for looking at the interplay of different meta-ideologies. The model becomes less interesting and useful when SD is used as a proxy for an individual's overall level of development, since it collapses several different lines of development down to a single axis (that of the meta-ideology which that person has been imprinted with) when used in that way. People can be at a level of complexity and depth significantly above or below the SD-Stage they've been imprinted with. To see how the model falls short when used as a proxy for someone's overall level of development, consider that both Ben Shapiro and Marcus Aurelius are roughly SD-Blue...
  10. Must have gotten a few wires crossed in my mind when I was posting that.
  11. I'll second this. Outside of Richard Nixon, McKenna probably did more than any other person to ensure that research on psychedelics was set back half a century. (Half joking here.) It's interesting that before McKenna's "tune in, drop out" middle finger to the establishment, in the preceding decades psychedelics were largely seen as a promising clinical / theraputic drug used to treat mental illness (and weren't all that controversial). *EDIT - meant to say Timothy Leary not Terrance McKenna
  12. Three books in particular which explore the epistemology of the embodied nature of mind, along with it's metaphysical implications. I'd highly recommend all three of them for anyone interested in the subject.
  13. Because psychedelics are a disruptive technology that's potentially threatening to established social norms. Add to that the very real potential for Harm from people abusing these substances and it's not hard to see why they're banned in so many places. As society continues to develop and the beneficial aspects that come when these substances are used responsibly become harder to downplay or ignore, their prohibition will become increasingly untenable.
  14. @itachi uchiha Leo's booklist has around 20 or so recommendations on metaphysics and epistemology, a good portion of which are focused on deconstructing Scientific Materialism. Which is a fine thing and a good start, but I also feel that he doesn't put enough emphasis on the uses of epistemology outside of deconstructing mainstream scientific narratives. You might also consider the following works for a more well rounded (though still complementary) perspective on epistemology: Metaphors We Live By, and Philosophy in the Flesh : George Lakoff The Embodied Mind : Thompson, Verella, and Rosch The Republic : Plato The View From Nowhere : Thomas Nagel
  15. Reading philosophical works written by people who grapple with the subject of epistemology is also another way to learn. Plato's Republic is perhaps one of the best works on the subject. Not because the conclusions Plato reaches are ones you'll agree with (indeed many of his argument and conclusions seem absurd some millennia later), but because of the method used throughout the book is a good demonstration of epistemology as a process and a practice. One that involves examining the underlying assumptions one uses to reach conclusions about the world.