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@Mikael89 The thing is to not worry about nothingness “direct experience” as that can not be invited. If one is still in the the position of being bound by the conditioned mind “time” one can not touch upon nothingness “direct experience” without that conditioned mind ceasing all together. Being the cessation of psychological time “fragmentation and the dualisitic compulsion to choose between the opposites.” This is a consistency that takes place as a movement of self/thought. This consist of not adding anything but constantly removing/dissolving “ the knower/the know”.. or the conditioned content of your current consciousness. Not being influenced by all the contradictory desires, pleasures, escaping of fear, seeking psychological security, and so on....all that is fueled by the known/knower. All that is preventing direct experience “nothingness” or “what is” or preventing the now from being seen without all that blocking the direct view. Be aware of your current content of conciousness. You can’t do anything about the other, “Direct experience or nothingness/truth” until the current conditioned content has ended Also one can not apply that conditioned movement to end itself. It’s to give diligent awareness without the imposition of the self/thought that leads to the cessation of thought/the knower. So the key is to learn the nature/structure/processes/substance of thought/self and to maintain scrupulous attention without thought/self trying to change it in any way. The subtle thing is that by being aware of that movement, yet not moving in any particular direction to change or alter it. To engage in any such movement is applying the very mechanism that prevents direct perception of “what is” form being seen. I would start by exploring/understanding psychological time/thought. For now. This is what I am constantly aware of now. After a while it becomes very simple. Mainly I am aware of the movement of reaction to seek security in the illusion of psychological time. But after a while those movements just fade away. It becomes effortless and I don’t even notice. Anyway just wanted to share how I do things. May seem difficult but it is actually very simple in action. To simple. It’s simple yet difficult. It’s difficult because it’s so simple Anyway I feel we gotta read the manual to the self/thought if you want the mechanism of thought to work for you instead of against you. After all it has been said somewhere that the mind is a great servant but a bad master. This is true. Mind is a tool. If that tool takes over and you identify your self with it, ultimately you will suffer and live a confused, contradicting, and conflictual life. I understand if you this is not for you? Maybe someone else will either way right

@How to be wise Very apropos for this moment within my direct experience. The G-F and I were getting into a bit of a tiff just now. Things are a bit "distant" at the moment. I applied what you said here to that situation. What a wake up call! I wonder if I could get her to see this and we could laugh it all off at the nothingness of it.

Infinite Love I have found in my life that whenever started a challenge to, for example, say "I love you" 24/7 I fail after a few days. It is the conflict between our subconscious beliefs and our radicle action that creates a big emotional resistance in ourselves. That is why it is hard to maintain a swift change at times, as your core fundamental deeply ingrained childhood beliefs that make up the identity of a you need to removed. And the only way to remove these beliefs is to go through all of the ignored emotions in our cells that continue to manifest in the people we see, which in turn strengthens the beliefs that made us avoid those emotions in the first place. For example, if I've ignored all of the sadness in my life, I will see it in everyone I met, and everything I see, as I have a belief that it's not OK to feel sadness. Reality responds to this by giving you more and more sadness so that the belief that sadness must be avoided can remain. And to go even further, if from this belief, which counter intuitively created the sad emotions and thoughts I wanted to avoid, I started to honor my heart with unconditional love and decided to face the sadness (like I would listen to my 5 year old self in need) this would create "resistance" beyond imagination to face, which in truth is all of the emotions being finally seen, and heard and felt. This feeling of the heart instead of the thinking from the mind, this shift in your default state of awareness that is the destiny of all human beings on this planet thus gives your heart so much more attention that your body will struggle to handle it. The pain of emotions transmuting faster than your body can keep up will at the start also create feelings of heavy sleepiness, and could manifest physical illness as the emotional energy cannot leave fast enough. This is why changing habits can be quite challenging for you can feel against your limiting subconscious thoughts of "I don't like this change", the pain of emotions being felt, and finally your beliefs which is the source of this all. So lets deal with the source then? What is the best way to change beliefs? There are two I know, and use. The first is to ask whenever an emotion arises in your body: What do I have to believe about myself in order to feel this way? So lets say you are jealous that a friend gets all of the attention from people, and you don't. The belief is then, "I am not worthy of attention from people". Now, is that really true? Just feel that in your body for a moment, I am not worthy of attention from other people. Why did you choose out of all the beliefs in existence to have this one? Would you want to tell that to your friends if they asked: "Hey, so what do you believe about yourself?" and you say: "That I'm unworthy of love" would you be proud? If you could live this life again would you choose that belief or would you swap it for "I am God almighty, and I deserve to be heard, felt , and adored to no end. Because my body is made of love, and my soul is love itself, love is my birthright." What a different life that would create. Once you find that limiting belief, reverse it as I have done above, and then live as if it is true. That is all that is necessary. The second is what I use the most often. That is to be inside of your heart, live from that center point. Your heart is love, your heart is life, your heart is the everything you have ever dreamed of that has been right under your nose the whole time. By loving whatever emotion arises in your heart you clear all of your karma, free all of your beliefs, until all that is left is a space of nothingness for bliss to fill. This practice includes loving whatever catches your attention by sending it a blessing, compliment, a smile, an affirmation, or simply an "I love you" so that you are BEING the love. This means any beliefs that are out of alignment with love will be forced to vanish at the rate that you choose love in each moment. The importance of this cannot be written in words, for from your level of awareness the true gifts are completely unfathomable and will seem to most, "too good to be true". These practices should be integrated slowly until a 24/7 level is reached after a few weeks, or months; as the pain of the 3 ego defenders (emotions, thoughts and beliefs) may overwhelm you as it did in my experience. Even the 3 ego defenders are just here to help you see for yourself that nothing in reality can fulfill you other than the attention and care you give to yourself. This just shows how absolutely everything that arises in your awareness is here to support your highest evolution, so see it as the gift that it is, and love the fuck out of it.

I would say a truly void stage implies the other, or that wasn’t really a void ? If that was really a void stage then that is truth/nothingness In truth/nothingness implies freedom, joy, beauty, creativity, compassion and love ??

Great question! I do not know. But would also like to hear some thoughts. But why do you think that enlightenment equals happiness? Enlightenment is the end of suffering - not eternal happiness Happiness is a state and Nothingness is the stateless-state

Measure leads to further measure. Measure and then action implies a static/measurable/finite/and limited action. ? Nothingness/truth being void of measure sees the whole of measure... Action free of measure impies dynamic/infinite/complete action. Not a movement and then action which implies division, but just action. Theres the movement of thought, then insight/perception, then action which would imply a limited partial/fragmented action. And then there is insight/action. This is an undivided whole action as it does not become divided by the movement of time. This makes for harmony of time/timeless. Compete action.

Out of truth the whole of thought is perceived This is really similar to my non experiencing?

Action born of nothingness/truth. Insight/perception Once there is division ‘time’ that truth nothingness is not. Division inevitably expresses itself in communication so time has to operate there. But in order for nothingness/action to act directly the division of Time must cease. Embodiment is the absense of division in the action. This action is whole “holy” It’s beautiful?

@tsuki Measure leads to further measure. Measure and then action implies a static/measurable/finite/and limited action. ? Nothingness/truth being void of measure sees the whole of measure... Action free of measure impies dynamic/infinite/complete action. Not a movement and then action which implies division, but just action. Theres the movement of thought, then insight/perception, then action which would imply a limited partial/fragmented action. And then there is insight/action. This is an undivided whole action as it does not become divided by the movement of time. This makes for harmony of time/timeless. Compete action. ⭕️ Very interesting huh

@Mikael89 @Ether Oh man, you guys have no idea. Enlightenment is seeing stillness in ceaseless movement. To let go of 'I' is to get rid of the barrier that prevents the movement. It simply moves. By itself. Precisely because there is nobody to benefit from it. Infinite meaning in pure nothingness.

Thats the point.. There is no point of view in what is. Truth/Intelligence is the absnsce of any particular point of of view, “movement of thought” Point of view is a part of the manifestation of the underlying substance, truth/nothingness. This perception is complete/infinite action without point of view all together, and void of time. Point of view is never truth. ?

@Faceless So glad to have someone to share this with my friend. @tsuki Sure thing. Here's one of my favorites. Human consciousness preoccupies itself with these entities, and virtually ignores their spatial background. We consider it "nothing" in the sense of that which has neither importance nor significance, forgetting that without the spatial field, none of these entities could be manifested or distinguished. There is, however, between space and entity the same polar relationship as between crest and trough, for which reason "nothingness" is not simply the contrary or absence of "being", but rather its ground and origin. As a newbie I remember reading this for the first time at the book store (pre-internet times) and I was totally blown away. It was like YES! What a discovery. Like finding gold. I was searching for something but I had no idea what it was until I read Allen Watts. He opened a huge door for me.

This is what I do. To have a centerless/headless walk. Except “I” don’t feel it’s presence, there is just a total/whole presence/happening. Except there is no me that distinguishes between other. There is no point of view as point of view doesn’t even exsist. There is nothingness. This is joy, beauty, creativity, compassion/love.

Hey. I would like to say a few things before I start this topic. Enlightenment is not one thing as most believe. There are two types of non dual experience, with a various depths and stages. The types? Void stages and God stages. Void stages include diving deep into the great unknown self. The faceless god, Without quality. God stages include experiences of the face of god. Bliss, love, compassion and etc. Void and god stages also come at varying depths. Mooji for example is in a void stage yet he definitely does not have the same depth that sadhguru or Ramana maharshi have. How do I know this. Asides from experiencing many of these states. I can read energies. All these experiences and states happen due to energetic changes. Normally ones energy becomes more and more subtle, more refined, and dives into pure stillness and then nothingness. There is a qualitative change. A rebirth. Another stage. This process then repeats. How do psychedelics relate to any of this? As I said I am an energy sensitive, and very familiar with these changes and processes. Psychedelics have extremely coarse energies. The consumption of said coarse energies can indeed greatly alter ones experience. Even permanently. These experiences might even be mistaken for true non dual states. They are not. They are static filled simulations. Loud simulations. That although are very flashy. Lack the depth. The maturity, and the clarity of the real things. This is because psychedelics (which I have done a lot of) overpower the system. Damage it. Damage the Nadis or energetic system. Halt the refinement process that leads to true enlightenment. If that was it though. Who cares. Go for it, but that is not it. When psychedelics damage your system and your auric field. They create literal holes in your energetic self. These holes then make you vulnerable to negative energies. Once cognized by mystics as demons and entities. These. Entities then latch onto you, and if you don’t stop. More will come, more will come. Eventually you become so fucked up. You won’t even know what hit you. Deluded. Thinking you are in a non dual states. Because of a psychedelically induced altered state. Some flashy simulation that lacks depth. While bark like a dog and act like a moron like martin ball. You can destroy your life and system. Beyond repair, and gain a ton of karma by doing this shit. Especially in short intervals. Please listen. I say this for no one else will. Nor do they know about he amount of damage these drugs can do. The damage can be undone, however, good luck

This is kind of a naive way to put it but imagine consciousness being this invisible barrier of "nothingness" spread infinitely wide across all directions and dimensions, where ever there is interaction that "nothingness" is the witness. The brain/mind is where separation happens because the mind is the thing that keeps account of memory and uses logic such as "past, present and future". So in theory you can say that the human body is a biological robot and consciousness is stealing all the witnessed perceptions, IT is the interaction of the two objects. Awareness is aware in of itself, just like how the sun emits light by itself. The body will die but consciousness won't, it's there forever stealing interactions from all forms. But you need to be careful with interpreting Leo's words because him saying "no brain, nothing exists" can come across as extremely nihilistic. Nothing is real, but everything is real at the same time, define real? what is real? Sciences already says that the foundation of everything is nothingness, the more you zoom into a particle or atom the more its "nothingness" there isn't anything there! And Yet here we are.... experiencing a human experience, so again, define what is real? We are in a dream, as a dream character we pointing at the sun and saying the sun is real because its there, forgetting it’s all a dream, and yet there is such a thing as the dream taking place in the first place. So when this body dies and consciousness re-joins itself there is no "this world", "this time", "this history" or "these people". To consider this reality as "real" is to consider all other possible realities as "real", it's only real because you're experiencing it right now... for now... As for saying there is no brain it doesn't make much sense to me, the brain is the receptor to consciousness, once the brain shuts down during sleep you lose all conscious experience of this body even tho the body is doing it's own thing, such as breathing, healing, disgesting etc. If you cut a receptor in the brain such as a pain nervous system then neither the body or consciousness can experience pain and therefore you can cut your limbs off and dissect your own body without a care in the world, and as Sadhguru if people didn't have pain in the body they would start to pull out their intestines and swing it around for fun

Yeah, nothingness and emptiness are words that can easily confuse, or even scare people. There isn't nothing. There is simply no thing. You only use the word nothing because you though there were things in the first place. I do kind of like the word no-thing-ness though. But these words kind of fall flat eventually because they first have to point to an illusion in order to describe truth.

No, it does not. You are misunderstanding what consciousness is. You haven't actually had a direct experience of what nonduality means. You're intellectualizing it. I know an enlightened master who took 1000ug of LSD after his enlightenment to test himself. He was unable to tell the difference between night and day. But his grounding in Nothingness was unshaken. Consciousness isn't a product of the brain. The brain is a form within consciousness, and as consciousness is the only thing there is, it is self-interactive. A rock hitting you in the head and causing a bruise is consciousness (a rock) interacting with consciousness (your head) causing a change in consciousness (a bruise).

Hey folks, I thought I was "enlightened before" but I wasn't... The final step took months but it finally came in the form of a very simple realization - there is no I to be enlightened. I had heard people talk about it this concept and thought I "understood" it, but experiencing it as a reality is a whole other thing. This video helped me a lot: ^ Adyashanti talks about this and nothingness (which is related to no self in my experience) in other videos

Sadly that is also incorrect. The truth is that ego is an arbitrary line we assign to things and cannot be fully sure if it’s gone. It’s not the light humans fear or that dark, but the void. To say that you are hanging on to joy shows you aren’t ready for nullity. It’s not thinking one knows, but knowing. Its a mistake to think that life is about being happy and productive, that’s the modern society’s view on things. To gaze out at all of it and fathom true nothingness is nothing short of crippling. It’s laughing in a sense at the absurdity of our existence and attempts to cope with the void. It’s not something you can prove but rather something you can sense and comprehend, it’s thinking but not with words or pictures but more of a sense. But isn’t that spirituality in a nutshell? No real evidence and just taking people at their word? A negative value to the void is an accurate stance to take when you strip any attempt at joy or happiness. It’s a weird phenomenon of sensing it’s not a desirable outcome, but knowing it’s the truth, and having all of it not matter one way or the other. Seeing that most of spirtuality is selling something they don’t have.

Beauty does in fact require meaning. Saying that everything matters though is a false statement because nothing matters. That’s the point. Enlightenment doesn’t exist and even if it did there is no point to it. There is no point to anything that we do. Meaning is simply humans pretending at something. Unfortunately you are incorrect. That fact that you are suggesting deeper shows an ego defense against true nothingness. All the teachers I spoke to say they would not recommend it unless death is your other option. It’s not the emotional high that you mistake for it. You don’t seem to grasp true meaninglessness if you seek to assign a positive value to it. It’s a state that once you reach it you don’t want it, yet in your bones you know that doesn’t matter. It’s not something I would expect you or anyone here to understand. This whole forum and website is stuck in the dream and doesn’t want to rip away what feels good. Nothingness isn’t about feeling good or peace, it’s about seeing reality for what it is and such a state tends to be hostile to the human mind.

The issue I have with "No brain " and pure self is if I drink a beer it should have no effect on anything. But it does. And so do drugs. Therefore the nothingness would appear to be a state of mind. That ultimately there is no control over

You are going into nothingness(in the end)before that you need to learn everything about yourself because all knowladge is self knowladge #Brucelee

Sorry but that simply isn’t true. If you experience anything besides utter nullify then you are stuck in the ego defense of projecting some kind of meaning. That is not what happened, it’s a gripping sensation and utter nothingness. It’s not a desirable state yet I knew in my bones it is truth. Anything else is just a mental defense to find meaning. It’s like what Albert Camus said. If you aren’t living with meaninglessness then you aren’t awakened. If you still see beauty and meaning then you see nothing.

Whole action born of no-thing or nothingness. Then your head will go missing hehehe?

Dear @InfinitePotential, Thank you for your pointers, they are very helpful. I purchased the book list and I have the first book in the Enlightenment section. I'll go back and revisit that chapter if you remember which chapter is that. I got some other 5 stars book too from that section, and some of them seem more intellectual to me and just keep repeating the same premises that the author claims. 1) So, people on this forum, with their medium of body and mind, typing their opinions and thoughts, are also like the apple example? 2) Is "Nothing is Everything" as a concept also something too, and liken to the apple example? Isn't all the understanding about Nothingness also another perspective, but not the Absolute Truth? Mostly importantly, the apple example is a very effective pointer, how is it reconcile with everyday living? Even in @Leo Gura's video, with all these deep ultimate understanding, it's made clear that he'll still live this life and fine-tune different facets of everyday life, how is this story different any other people who haven't reached that level of deep realization? Seems like there is still always business as usual regardless there's the deep realization of "we're not the body and mind" and "this IS Nothingness." Would love to attend some sort of real life interaction where people are fearless and authentic about exploring these questions together, without ego, without spiritual bypass, and without the simple brush off reply of either you get it or you don't...