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@Jamie Universe It's just a word pointing nowhere to someone who has never had glimpse of one's true nature. If you are completely "new" I recommend you to start with neti neti method:

1.) Q: What is the Intent for spirituality? A: To realize God. E: There is no greater thing to realize and invest “time” into. This is top priority. One cannot become enlightened, but only the realization of it can come about. Thus, the objective is to increase the percentages of this by putting time into the work which can serve as a catalyst. 2.) Q: Analysis and Gathering of intelligence? A: There are three stages to realization 1.) Neti-Neti: Process of elimination to break the false identification of the ego. 2.) Self Abidance: once the process of phenomenal elimination is finished, remain as what is left which itself is not an experience. It cannot be found, it can only be. 3.) Yeti-Yeti: This is the process of the realization of oneness with the entire phenomenal spectrum. There are no boundaries between awareness (God) and the entire spectrum of phenomenal experience. E: https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/7587-list-of-enlightenment-exercises/ -Rupert Spira, Mooji, Adyashanti, Shinzen Young. 3.) Q: preparation of resources? A: time and intensity in solitude are the only resources needed. 4.) Q: Concentration of force? A: execute when the schedule says so. This is also the utmost priority. It is better if most of the free time is put into this. Friday and saturday after 5 can be used to hang with friends. After that, sundays are used to go to the gym and do enlightenment work in solitude. Furthermore, every night before going to sleep, taking time for enlightenment work. 5.) Q: execution? A: execute when the schedule says so. 6.) Q: Adaptability? A: just get it done. There maybe be short bursts of time when there is an emergency in the xy, but for the most part, most of the free time is invested in this. 7.) Q: Study of Principals? A: Refer to notes about these: actualized, Rupert Spira, books, adyashanti, neti neti, meditation, being. Books: - The Science of Enlightenment by Shinzen Young. - The Attention Revolution by Alan Wallace. - The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. -The book of not knowing. - Stillness Speaks by Eckhart Tolle. Summary: Live a minimalist lifestyle and declutter mental and physical things in order to focus time and attention into what is most important. Have the breakthrough and use the insight to purify life and get rid of old mental and physical patterns/habits.

@Joseph Maynor the more you “study” these stuff the more infinitely confused you will get. All you need to know is three stages of realization. The first the neti neti method. This is for beginners to disidentify with the body, fellings and thoughts and see on direct experience that you are none of those. Then the highest form of meditation that you become aware that you are aware. You are awareness, observer, consciousness. And finally after enough practice you merge with entirety of “your” observed experience and you become the God’s knowing of this finite human experience. Forget that word Enlightenment exists. The only thing that you know exist is you. This is the finding of yourself. The source of your being. That is all you need to know really. After your liberation you decide what is more relevant to you.

imo it's important to notice the illusory nature of thought, and practicing no-thought is one good way to meditate for sure, to search for mindfulness. but it's a little ironic to think that thought can ever go away it ain't really gone and it isn't really bad. it's just something which grabs your attention and can distract you. lots of things can distract you. it's easy to say "before enlightenment, carry wood chop water. after enlightenment, carry wood chop water" her but I think the more important message is how absorbed some people can get in carrying wood and chopping water that they fail to milk the cows and chat with the spouse during the lazy afternoon break. idk what you really mean by trying to achieve fake growth, I think you take a different message from the video than I did. what I found important in the message was to not get caught up in the thrill of accomplishment, when thrill is something which ain't really reliable or consistent is. the growth we seek is something which is stable and reliable. learning chess can have stable and reliable results too. if you feel thinking, processing strategy, planning, these things help you play chess. why stop it? it isn't fake growth to become a better thinker. it's fake growth to think that being a better thinker makes you a better mindful person. mindfulness is not thinking, and is more fundamental - mindfulness can exist in thought, in fact, awareness is necessary for thought to develop... awareness is really fundamental to all. thinking, just as chopping wood, or sex, or thrill, these things can distract us from finding mindfulness. overall leo tends to push us towards consiousness work and especially enlightenment and experiencing infinty/god/nothingness/noself/etc. whatever you wanna call it. but you can have fake growth as you move towards those goals, just as you can have "true growth" when moving towards chess mastery. the difference is just another illusion, in the end. these concepts - fake growth v. true growth. thought v awareness. they are only useful for finding more duality - more illusion - more belief - more lower self. but even the yogi returns to concept. it's just different. this is the meaning of enlightenment really - change, to take what you saw before and see it in a more full light. before and after, chop wood carry water. but, after - there's something more to it. it's different. after enlightenment, chopping wood carrying water - even thinking - don't need to be thrilling to be fulfilling. but thrill isn't bad. it just distracts us from what is True. we find ways to strip away thrill, strip away thought, to come to understand better what existence is like without those things. neti neti! and yet, we return to the illusions. it'd be unhealthy not to. but it's also unhealthy to get so absorbed in illusion, we lose sight of what's really there.

Hey folks! This is a question I've been asking myself for a while now. As I understand there is no best method, but still I am trying to figure out how to combine meditation with self-inquiry in a way that both fit together smoothly towards having the realisation of enlightenment. I meditate with contemplation twice a day. Here is what I currently tend to do. - I set a timer for 30+ minutes (I am working on having longer sessions) and I sit down closing my eyes. I like to meditate in complete silence even though I suspect having tinnitus, so I am not even near complete silence at all since there is a ringing noise which seems to be quite noticeable once I am having a meditation session. - Once started, I take four deep breaths, in through the nose and out through my mouth. At times I hold the breath for 5 seconds and exhale for 7 or 8 seconds. I might do this during the meditation too at times. - After this I tell myself, "Become fully aware right now. Become aware of the present moment." Here I scan the body and I become more aware of feelings, sensations & thoughts. I sit with this a few seconds before telling myself, "We're trying to find formlessness. It's not hidden, in fact you're so close to "it" that you need to soften your focus. We're searching for something that is always there regardless of what you perceive and feel. - Then, I am using the Neti Neti method mixed with mindfulness. Basically I go in my mind, "iiiiIIIIIIIIIIIIIII..." what is this "iiIIIII?" Here the voice comes in and says things like, "You're (I am) the body. You're the brain. You're awareness. You're a perceiver - and so on...", but then I try to "logically" disprove this by taking the components apart. Such as... "Wait... this voice is it me? No, it can't be because it always changes. Wait a minute... there is this feeling and the thought that there is an entity sitting here meditating, but am I a feeling and thought? Hmm... those always change. The body dies eventually and we're looking for something that can't die. So I can't be that." I have to admit that I am at times "half-assing" this process. During this I might say things in my mind like... Become present. The now, is all there is. Let go of trying to figure out things with the mind. Let go of trying to control things. Let go of thoughts, feelings, emotions, just let everything go. Just be here, observe, let awareness wander wherever it wants to go. There is nothing else to do. There is nowhere else to be than here, in the now. Surrender yourself completely, to what is. Just let go, surrender to reality, just be aware. Relax. There is nothing to figure out, just be aware. Soften your attention. Let go of ideas and concepts, let go of "you". Everything that is perceived is not you. It's content arising and "you" focusing on it. This tends to ground me in some ways, but I also then tend to label perceptions. For example, I hear a bird, then in my mind I go, "Sound." I perceive that my leg hurts, I go "Bodily sensation." A thought is arising? I go, "Thought" in my mind. This right here might be conflicting, because on one hand you're supposed to surrender and leave the mind be, but simultaneously my focus at times is on labeling. In the beginning of the meditation/self-inquiry that's when I usually do this labeling thing, but after maybe 1/3rd into the session I just stop it to some degree and I go with just observing - yet also saying phrases like those above so I don't drift off in monkey mind. This at times leads me to "states" where the heart startes beating rapidly and where the perceptions seem more sharp and me more sensitive to perceiving. It then feels at times like the mind just can't really support the "I" concept, since it's rather a belief, thought and a feeling, so it kinda seems to be more open to other possiblities. But those again are just feelings, thoughts and perceptions. - The alarm goes off. I open my eyes and continue with my day/night. This is roughly what a session looks like for me. I've been looking for meditation regarding enlightement, but I mostly got guided visualisations which require focusing with the mind, maybe even more focusing than just repeating phrases now and then to ground yourself. People say that you should leave the mind alone, be present and just observe. Sure, the neti neti method isn't exactly "leaving the mind alone", yet it helps to break down the belief-structure of "I". Many guided meditations for enlightenment can be bought and are expensive, yet I don't really trust them so I thought I'd rather hear what you guys have to say . What do you think is "the best" method regarding meditation when working towards enlightenment? What are your experiences with combining meditation & self-inquiry? What method do you find useful? If the method/process that I use is alright, is there something I could do better to improve it? Do you have any tips and pointers on how to meditate and do self-inquiry. Also... the picture isn't related to the topic. I wanted to check out the upload feature.

I'm currently reading Neti-Neti Meditation by Andre Doshim Halaw and he already confused me haha, which is good. I am clinging too much to concept of me being awareness. Somewhere in the beginning stated "We are not our senses, perceptions, awareness, consciousness, emotions, bodies, thoughts." Which really made me wonder. What can I be if I am not even awareness? Of course, this is something I have to find out for myself but I was wondering how you guys comprehend this. Is awareness a quality of the Absolute?

It can no be measured and it can not be converted into an object. It can't be known. Whatever you know is not you. The only thing you don't know is your essence, because everything that is an object is not you... neti neti... (not this not this) To find the Brahman or your essence you have to do like an sculptor, that removes the rock that is not the piece of art until the sculpture appears. By removing what is not, you find what is... but if you have the experience of knowing your self, after the experience you won't find words to describe it accurately, because there aren't. It's not possible. :-)

I think there is something you have not experienced yet. Imagine telling someone to look towards the window. They look and see trees, grass, etc but what you were referring to was the actual glass. Its a matter of paradigm. I would recommend that you watch Leo's no-self guided meditation and guided visualization on the Neti Neti method and mediate on those. Once you have a real experience of no-self while doing self-inquiry, I think your meditation will be much different because you will now have something to shoot for.

@David S It might be different but the idea stays the same. Believing that you won't exist is nothing like experiencing that you don't exist. If something has not been a direct experience for you it is belief. For me doing Neti-Neti meditation helped me expose the way I belief in the self. Maybe this could help you as well. Video that might help you understand:

I experienced thoughtless awareness and some physical sensations which are slightly different than the norm. I could have gotten a bit of a glimpse of "nothingness" through Leo's neti neti video. What you describe seems quite beyond my experiences.

Just coming by asking for a good self-inquiry method. Anybody got some experience with neti-neti?

Self enquiry (Neti Neti): I am not my state of consciousness

@Nahm Hey, my last inquiry was hard...there were many distracting thoughts and I was only able to focus for maybe 10-15 minutes... During that time I discovered that my present identification is that I am the body and the thoughts and that reality is outside of me...It is interesting to see that there is still identification with the body and the mind even though I have undermined that possibility many times in a Neti-Neti style of inquiry. Even though I have no proof that suggests my identification to be correct, I still believe it like a SUCKER! Lol. Going to continue practicing! thank you for me helping me!

Very cool @Joseph Maynor , I agree totally for what is there to know? Everything you hold up to That doesn't hold true at all, Absolutely everything, inludng Leo's concepts, including my concepts, including your concepts, basically All concepts. It is that simple. Do you really think that God doesn't give to us all equally though? We are all That after all aren't we. Every thing we experience is That breaking us down and pointing to its existence, leading us home. How could it be any other way? That is completely without condition, it loves and gives to ALL in equal measure. Truth reveals itself in everything when it is revealed which isn't seen until it is seen. And like it or not The ego is actually as much a part of That as anything. God loves the Devil that is why God is God. The Devil is the one that tells us to love only that which it tells you is true, and to reject what it tells you is false. As soon as you start to cut up and say this is good and that is not you are getting into a space of dogma and belief, the devil is steering the ship in other words. Sure you have to let it ALL go to realise That but you are still here, not even Sri Ramana Maharishi (who was touched by God without practise) could think himself out of existence, so what does that tell you? Have you ever heard of the Hindu practise Neti, neti, or not this, not this. It rings true without being Truthful as it only points. Yes I do not know, no one does, yet I am That, as are we all. Namaste

Regarding identity you don't have to have one. Once you understand that not relating to people and being alone is fine then you will be able to still connect with people and talk to them normally even if you can't relate to them. Relating to others isn't necessary, but know your basis similar to them even if you've figured something new out. Right now you have a perspective of needing an identity. It's sort of your identity, a person who needs an identity. You don't need any roles, letting go of them and having your natural inspiring self is enough. You can just follow the values of spiritual teachers or what Leo recommends for now. You won't go too wrong with them. You also don't have to think to yourself how different you are from others. It's totally fine to be different and it's only another distraction to worry about it. If you feel like you're socially awkward you could try to not force conversations too much and instead just see how other people converse. Not so much the words but the feeling and rhythm. After a while you start to get a hang of the basics and you'll develop your own style. I wouldn't stop meditating. Instead I would actually encourage you to watch leo's self-inquiry video, neti neti method and do some exercises that are in this forum in meditation area. This will give you more understand of what you are. Also his videos on enlightenment and nature of reality probably help. You might feel overwhelmed right now but that feeling will pass. Just push through and figure stuff out with patience and you'll be all good.

@Deep There is also a branch called kriya yoga which includes all those postures and Im pretty sure it also comes under spiritual yoga. http://isha.sadhguru.org/blog/yoga-meditation/demystifying-yoga/kriya-yoga/ One technique in jnana yoga is the neti-neti technique - The self-enquiry. And yeah, it seems we have to mix and match everything. According to sadhguru every person needs a certain amount of every kind of it. @YaNanNallari You should go through sadhguru's website. They offer isha kriya meditation and chit shakti meditation freely downloadable. I saw a youtube video of upa yoga too which is a yoga that is only for physiological benefits. For understanding what is yoga I think you should watch sadhguru's videos or read his blog. I knew all that I know about yoga from there only.

First of all, I'd like to say that I'm not replying on this to make you waste your time or to bug you in any sort of way. It's just that I think I have the opportunity to repay all the knowledge and aha moments your content have allowed me to get. The spiritual process is, like any other process, in constant evolution. I see spiritual practices as a sort of transcendental technology. Like any technology, it developed through history. Siddhartha gave us Vipassana. Later Buddhist Masters invented Transcendental Meditation, Metta, Goenka Body Scanning, Zen Koans, Strong Determination Sitting and so on. Advaitins tend to focus on Self Inquiry / Neti-Neti methods. Some types of Yoga work through God devotion (Bakthi Yoga), which is very similar to the Christian Mysticism way. There is Kryia Yoga, Kundalini practices, Pranayamas, Asanas, so on and so forth. Shamans discovered a long time ago the "plants technologies", as Terence McKenna liked to say: Marijuana, Ayahuasca, Psilocybe Cubensis, Peyote, LSD, the Toad, Salvia, Holotropic Breathwork - the list is never ending. Of course you know all of this - I am just trying to build up my argument, which is - spiritual practices are no different from material technology, they evolve through time. Some methods being more suitable for some people than others. The problem is that most of these methods are embedded in very dogmatic traditions (blue mythic-literal), which doesn't really allow their practitioners to see the big picture from a yellow integral perspective. For some reason (ego, I know, I know), the spiritual technologies didn't really evolve as much as material technology throughout history. My opinion being that we never reached a point where we could observe the big picture of it. We have internet, we have a lot of people transitioning from green to yellow! IMHO Jeffery's body of work is the perfect missing link between science and spirituality. This is mothafuckin' huge, folks. It's the first time someone is trying (and getting outstanding results) to have a systematic, non dogmatic, integral approach to reaching non-dual states, using modern material technology and "gold standard" spiritual technologies. He even managed to avoid the dark night of the soul in the process, by using positive psychology. To make things clear, I am not being paid to make any kind of propaganda here. Since you are curious to know the methods Jeffery is using, there is a Reddit thread about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/streamentry/comments/62ev8b/community_the_finders_course_techniques_and/ From my research, it seems that Jeffery already tried to make the course available for free, but in that case, people would not apply enough discipline and could not effectively transition to any PNSE "location", as he classifies. Since that's the case, I felt it was ok to post this information here. Of course there is a chance for it to be just plain BS and Jeffery's course could be a total scam, but following my intuition and research about it, I tend to say this is 100% legit. It's a wonderful time to be alive, my friends. We should be celebrating!

"What am I?" is better. A who is a perspective. A what is a thing -- or no-thing. This is what Neti-Neti gets at. Not this, not that. What am I? Am I this feeling that I am a thing? No, because there are moments of Being where that feeling is absent. Am I this wacky, conceptual Mind? Well no, because there are moments where I experience no monkey-mind or thinking. If Being exists without something, then that something is not me. Stuff that can fall away and leave me be is not me. Get into a state of flow and watch all your distinctions vanish. Notice that you become uncentered too in a flow state -- your boundaries about where you start and end disapear (causing a feeling of expansion, a feeling of one-ness with everything). This is because you have arms-lengthed the Mind-Matrix. Most of the time the Mind-Matrix has you by the balls (or ovaries for women reading this). But get into a state of flow and just observe from that place. It will change your life as it did mine. Notice how much the Mind-Matrix interferes in Being when you settle-out of the natural state of flow -- where you start to want to look at reality as a duality instead of its natural non-duality. Flow gets you pointed in the right direction to see how much the Mind-Matrix rubricizes reality and augments reality. Instead of realizing these are overlays on top of Being, we believe they are Being itself. The Ego uses the Mind-Matrix to paste the illusion of duality over non-duality. When you are in a flow state ask -- what am I? Where am I? What is real? How does the Mind influence what is real by adding in beliefs to Being? How does the Mind carve up Being in arbitrary, human ways? Also ask, Is Being physical? What is physicality? You'll see that the Mind overlays physicality on top of Being. Start to look at reality as it is, not as the Mind is telling you that it is.

Hey Guys, to be honest with you I'm really confused right now, and not sure what to do with life, besides meditate. So yesterday, I was watching Leo's video have an enlightenment experience with the neti neti method. First I did it once, and nothing (I knew the answer in my head was that I am nothing, because I listened to Rupert Spira) But I didn't experience it, so I felt like saying that I was enlightened then was me fooling myself. I did it again, and nothing. I did it again whilst brushing my teeth before going to bed and asked myself what am I? I then felt like all the dots were connecting in my head I saw how I was just awareness and since I am awareness I will never die, since it will always be around and it is infinite, I thought I am everywhere, I am everything, I am everyone but no one. I am god, and before I was born I was always alive as well, as the awareness was always there. So then I looked at myself in the mirror and had a huge grin on my face. But then I was kind of saying to myself in my head shut up, when I asked myself am I enlightened? So what was this? I'm so clueless right now because I read about spiritual enlightenment happening to others and I heard they started crying and dancing with joy and screaming and falling to the ground? So I thought since I did none of that stuff, so surely I can't have had an enlightenment experience since mine was a bit underwhelming? This was all yesterday btw. But I've realized that I've also lost my anger issues and no longer tempted to watch porn. What did I have? I don't think it was enlightenment also because, I'm not filled with happiness and love like people like Sadhuguru and Rupert Spira are? I just feel normal and confused and a bit demotivated to go to the gym now that I have realized there is no I. I'd love some help @Nahm @Loreena @ajasatya @Shin I suppose you guys seem to have a fair amount of knowledge about this or may even have had a similar experience, so I'd love your help/suggestions in a confusing time like this.

Okay this is simple as neti neti method of Leo, who are you , what are you... right? Those are questions you follow.. but what i am gonna share to you is more direct than that.. so of course you do meditation right? You observe those sensations.... thoughts... feelings.. right?? You are aware of you are conscious right?? .. so there are two things : If i gonna remove your hands, arms,eyes,stomach,ears,nose,fingers,body,brain,mind what is left?? Second, instead, ask your self who am i what am i.. direct it ask yourself if who are the one who see consciousness?? Who saw that you are conscious? Who saw that you are asking questions? Who saw the one you use to see and feel things.. who saw the one you percieve.. what is the one see the perciever... that's it if there is a thoughts come out.. ask who see that i see these thoughts...

In this book from Andre Doshim Halaw, he teache method that seems very effective to mee. But I don't really get what he says. I am not able to get what he means, for example wit "the base-object". Is there some more details about his method somewhere?

@How to be wise Try doing Leo's self-observation. Whilst i'm sure it is an effective technique, Neti-neti can be a little too rigid at times. Also try cutting your session down to 20 minutes. 20 minutes is easily doable. The key is to get the habit in place. So you've gotta do it for long enough that sitting down just becomes part of your normal daily routine. Also very doable.

Why, sure you can! That's called self-inquiry! Check out Leo's video on the Neti Neti method. Additionally, you can contemplate on what the difference between someone else and yourself is.

Hey, Just last week I started to do self-inquiry, specifically the Neti Neti technique. One week on, and already I feel like quitting, because it's too much work. The reason I hate myself for this, is because I tried to start this habit exactly this time last year, and I quit one week after. I would like to know how I can motivate myself to successfully start this habit, and to keep it for the next several years. Any suggestions are appreciated.

If that conclusion works for you, I have no reason to convince you otherwise. You seem to really want to believe in conceptual claims, as do most of us. Your argument doesn't fly with me though. Enlightenment is really good at telling you what you are not, but it doesn't do much to tell you -- conceptually -- what you are, or anything else for that matter. And Neti-Neti certainly does not prove-up all the positive claims that are made about enlightenment. Most of the claims about enlightenment are simply scaffolding, designed to guide you and to be kicked-away at the right time. A big problem I see is that people want to treat the scaffolding like beliefs. This is a huge trap. All beliefs are existentially false. The problem is that nobody wants to remain silent to be the Truth, they want to cling to knowing the Truth conceptually. I hope you see this trap. I do, and I'm not claiming that I don't fall into it either. But I am mindful of it. Thought-stories are not the Truth, they're egoic fantasies. But you've heard this many times before, I'm sure. And if you've not been sold on this by now, I assume it doesn't work for you. And that's fine. I don't assume my role is to twist your arm into my way of thinking about the issue. That would be really arrogant of me. There is more than one way to skin a cat. What enlightenment does tell you positively it shows you, and what you conceptualize from what it shows you it ain't. Boy I hope this makes sense. It is really hard to talk about enlightenment or to write about it I am finding. This is why I like the idea that enlightenment is about BE-ing the Truth. It gets at what I see as the most accurate pointer to enlightenment. Just BE non-dual reality. That's it! Reality is the non-dual whole. As soon as you say anything about it you poo in the beautiful pool so to speak. Let the pool stay crystal clear and just enjoy it without modification. It doesn't need to be anything other than what it is, anything more than what it is. But our monkey-minds hunger for conceptual truth about non-dual reality like a heavy-person might pine for a doughnut. We have a powerful craving to know. We lick our chops to know like a dog with a bottom-less pit stomach eats until it barfs. We're addicted to conceptual knowing. For what it's worth, and I'm not assuming I am right and everybody else is wrong -- clinging to conceptual beliefs about non-dual reality can set you 100 miles apart from enlightenment. Enlightenment is pre-linguistic, a-linguistic, a-conceptual. Just BE what is. I don't know, maybe I am on the wrong track, but it feels so right to me. This is how I practice enlightenment. This doesn't moot conceptual thinking as to other matters, it just moots beliefs trying to capture non-dual reality. Enlightenment is like going through the gateless-gate. (I stole this last sentence from one of Leo's videos haha. It's good.) I'm at this point with my enlightenment where beliefs about enlightenment don't really count for much. The stories are fun to read and get me thinking about enlightenment, but BE-ing reality is where the rubber-meets-the-road for enlightenment to me. But I never would have arrived at this destination without a lot of scaffolding to guide me here. The journey is worth as much as the destination in enlightenment. But I have found that at some point you have to kick away the theory training-wheels and just be the damn Truth. It's so trivial it almost seems like a joke. This is why the journey to get here is so important. The ego will not drop need to believe until it sees the Truth and understands the futility of trying to conceptualize enlightenment, so you gotta go on the journey to see with your entire being why this is True. You gotta feel it in the marrow of your bones -- like damn! this is never gonna work! It's an epiphany that I think Self-Inquiry, in part, is trying to lead you to. But I am still open to talking about and thinking about all these issues. I don't wanna be a dogmatist myself. Beliefs don't count for much from an existential standpoint. But this statement must eat itself. Now you know why I say the statement must eat itself -- all thought-stories stand at cross-purposes to non-dual being. Like the difference between drawing a cat and petting a real cat. The real cat might tentatively sniff at your nifty drawing, but it would probably show no interest in it otherwise.